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CriticalDivide, thank you for your input, all information on any of our lucky subjects is always welcome I have to say though, from being in a position of not being that bothered one way or the other about Ronnie Biggs, your last couple of posts have made me jump off the fence firmly onto the side of 'he's a bit of a cunt'. Whatever the 'facts' of the case - the one that we know is that Ronnie Biggs was involved with a bunch of other people in committing a violent robbery. Some of the points above seem to be trying to justify things - 'The fireman was bundled down the bank, but not struck. The driver Jack Mills was struck once, and did most of the damge when he fell against the side of his cabin.' - so what? So it's OK that the fireman wasn't struck? It's OK that Jack Mills was only hit once? 'Mills died of Leukamia seven years after the robbery and the coroner at the time made the point of stating in his report that his death was in no way related to what happened at the robbery.' - again, so what? Doesn't take away the fact that the poor fucker, doing a shitty job to try an earn an honest wage, was violently assaulted! 'it was left to the rail union and the general public to raise some money for him' - so, was Ronnie that sorry that he anonymously slipped a few quid from his ill-gotten gains into the fund? 'Ron actually has spent more time in prison than virtually all the other gang members' - yeh? Boo fucking hoo. He also spent 30 years NOT in prison when he should have been.