Dementia afflicted footballers

[Octopus of Odstock 1,848]

Recent reports suggest a minimum of 375 former footballers have dementia or some form of degenerative brain deisease, but other people like Tony Cascarino suspect it is a lot more according to reports. For privacy reasons, not all 375 are going to reveal but with so many footballers now coming public and with the hapless Gordon Taylor now gone at the PFA, many more may now reveal their plight.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to record those living for research purposes. I know there are much more, but I can add them on in due course as of course this can be amended.

 

Forename Surname Age in 2023 Clubs International Caps Harry  Jarvis 95 Notts County, Worksop     Tommy  Banks 94 Bolton, Altrincham England 6 Ian McMillan 92 Airdrie, Rangers Scotland 6 Karl Ringel 91 Borussia Neunkirchen, FC Saarbrucken Saarland, West Germany 3 Cliff  Jones 88 Swansea, Tottenham, Fulham Wales 59 Jim   MacLean 87 Dunfermline     Alan Peacock 86 Middlesbrough, Leeds, Plymouth Argyle England 6 Nair  Silva 86 Corinthians Brazil 1 Carlos Bilardo 85 San Lorenzo, Deportivo Español, Estudiantes     Frank  Wignall 84 Everton, Nottingham Forest, Wolves, Derby County, Mansfield, King's Lynn England 2 Alan Roper 84 Walsall     Alberto Festa 84 Porto, Tirsense Portugal 19 Gilberto Della Breda 84 Kortrijk, Gent, Standard Liege     Denis Law 83 Huddersfield, Manchester City, Manchester United, Torino Scotland 55 Xavier Stierli 83 FC Zurich Switzerland 12 Alan Spence 83 Southport, Sunderland, Darlington, Oldham, Chester     Len Willett 83 Wrexham, Congleton     Jose Zico Dias 83 Nacional, Paranese     Ivan Mraz 82 Slovan Bratislava, Spartak Praha, Dukla Prague, MVV Maastricht Czechoslovakia 4 Alex Stuart 82 Dundee, Dundee United     John McNamee 82 Newcastle, Workington, Celtic, Hibs, Hartlepool, Blackburn     Mike Bailey 81 Charlton, Hereford United, Wolves England 2 Rod Thornhill 81 Reading, Poole Town     Hugh Ryden 80 Bristol Rovers, Stockport County, Chester, Halifax     Gordon Wallace 80 Montrose, Raith, Dundee, Dundee United, Seattle Sounders     Jorge Peralta 80 Club Sport Uruguary, Herediano Costa Rica  1 Terry Venables 80 QPR, Chelsea, Tottenham, Crystal Palace England 2 Alan Gilliver 79 Huddersfield, Blackburn, Rotherham, Brighton, Lincoln, Bradford, Stockport     Nelson  Acosta 79 Huracan Buceo, Penarol     Peter Cormack 77 Hibernian, Nottingham Forest, Liverpool, Bristol City, Partick Thistle Scotland 9 Joe  Kinnear 77 Tottenham, Brighton and Hove Albion Republic of Ireland 26 Chris Nicholl 77 Halifax, Luton, Aston Villa, Southampton, Grimsby Town Northern Ireland 51 Dave Watson 77 Notts County, Rotherham, Sunderland, Manchester City, Stoke, Southampton, Derby England 65 Steve Smith 77 Huddersfield, Bolton, Halifax     John Tudor 77 Coventry, Sheffield United, Newcastle United, Stoke, KAA Gent     Dave Boylen 76 Grimsby Town     Billy Sinclair 76 Greenock Morton, Chelsea, Glentoran, Kilmarnock, Linfield, Sligo Rovers     Stan Bowles 75 Manchester City, Bury, Crewe, Carlisle, QPR, Nottingham Forest, Leyton O, Brentford England 5 Chris Barnard 75 Southend, Ipswich, Torquay, Charlton     Gareth Davies 74 Wrexham Wales 3 Tony Parkes 74 Blackburn Rovers     Tommy Cassidy 73 Glentoran, Newcastle, Burnley Northern Ireland 24 Alex Cropley 72 Hibernian, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Toronto Blizzard, Portsmouth Scotland 2 Terry McDermott 72 Bury, Newcastle United, Liverpool England 23 Frank  Womble 72 Rotherham, Crewe, Halifax     Mick Lyons 72 Everton, Sheffield Wednesday, Grimsby     Trevor Whymark 72 Ipswich, Derby, Grimsby, Vancouver Whitecaps, Southend, Peterborough England 1 Willie Young 71 Aberdeen, Tottenham, Arsenal, Nottingham Forest, Norwich, Brighton, Darlington     Dave Serella 71 Nottingham Forest, Walsall, Blackpool     Osvaldo Aquino 71 San Lorenzo, Gurani, Olimpia Paraguay   Daniel Passarella 70 Sarmineto, River Plate, Fiorentina, Inter Milan Argentina 70 Stuart Parker 69 Blackpool, Southend, Chesterfield, Blackburn, Bury, Chester etc.     Jimmy Calderwood 68 Birmingham, Cambridge, Sparta Rotterdam, Willem II, Roda, Heracles     Dave  Cusack 67 Sheffield Wednesday, Southend, Millwall, Doncaster, Rotherham, Boston     John  Deehan 66 Aston Villa, Norwich, West Brom, Ipswich, Barnsley     Edgardo Bauza 65 Rosario, Verecruz, Atletico Jr, Independiente Argentina 3 Gordon Cowans 65 Aston Villa, Blackburn, Derby, Wolves, Sheffield United, Bradford, Stockport, Burnley England 10 Steve Elliott 65 Nottingham Forest, Preston, Luton, Bury, Bolton, Walsall, Rochdale     Steve Norris 64 Port Vale, Leek Town     Brendan Ormsby 63 Aston Villa, Leeds, Shrewsbury, Doncaster, Scarborough, Wigan     Colin Gibson 63 Aston Villa, Manchester United, Port Vale, Leicester, Blackpool, Walsall     Jan Furtok 61 GKS Katowice, Eintract Frankfurt,  Hamburg Poland 36 Kevin Hetherington 60 Ayr, Queen of the South, Annan     Jan Jaap Keistra 58 Veendam, Groningen     Bruce  Murray 57 Washington Stars, Maryland, Millwall, Stockport, Ayr, Atlanta Ruckus United States 85

[Spade_Cooley 9,001]

From the women's side of the game, the first female British footballer to go semi-professional, Sue Lopez, is currently suffering with dementia.

[Dying Probably 541]

1 hour ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

Recent reports suggest a minimum of 375 former footballers have dementia or some form of degenerative brain deisease, but other people like Tony Cascarino suspect it is a lot more according to reports. For privacy reasons, not all 375 are going to reveal but with so many footballers now coming public and with the hapless Gordon Taylor now gone at the PFA, many more may now reveal their plight.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to record those living for research purposes. I know there are much more, but I can add them on in due course as of course this can be amended.

 

Forename	Surname	Age on NYE	Clubs	International	Caps
Eddie	McLaren	91	Reading
Jimmy	Millar	86	Dunfermline, Rangers, Dundee United	Scotland	2
Peter	Swan	84	Sheffield Wednesday, Bury	England	19
Bobby	Charlton	83	Manchester United, Preston	England	106
Jim	McLean	83	Hamilton, Clyde, Kilmarnock, Dundee
Roger	Hunt	82	Liverpool, Bolton	England	34
Alan	Roper	81	Walsall
Jimmy	Robson	81	Burnley, Blackpool, Barnsley, Bury
Mike	Bailey	78	Charlton, Hereford United, Wolves	England	2
Chris	Chilton	77	Hull, Coventry
Bill	Gates	76	Middlesbrough
Mike	Sutton	76	Norwich, Chester, Carlisle
Gerd	Muller	75	1861 Nordingen, Bayern Munich, Fort Lauderdale Kickers	West Germany	62
Dave	Watson	74	Notts County, Rotherham, Sunderland, Manchester City, Stoke City, Southampton, Derby	England	65
Chris	Nicholl	74	Halifax, Luton, Aston Villa, Southampton, Grimsby Town	Northern Ireland	51
Steve	Smith	74	Huddersfield, Bolton, Halifax
Dave	Boylen	73	Grimsby Town
Frank	Worthington	72	Huddersfield, Leicester, Birmingham, Bolton, Leeds, Sunderland, Southampton, Brighton, Tranmere, Preston, Stockport	England	8
Stan	Bowles	72	Manchester City, Bury, Crewe, Carlisle, QPR, Nottingham Forest, Leyton O, Brentford	England	5
Ernie	Moss	71	Chesterfield, Peterborough, Mansfield, Port Vale, Lincoln, Doncaster, Stockport, Scarborough, Rochdale
Tony	Parkes	71	Blackburn Rovers
Dave	Serella	68	Nottingham Forest, Walsall, Blackpool
Jimmy	Calderwood	65	Birmingham, Cambridge, Sparta Rotterdam, Willem II, Roda, Heracles
Gordon	Cowans	62	Aston Villa, Blackburn, Derby, Wolves, Sheffield United, Bradford, Stockport, Burnley	England	10
Wout	Holverda	62	Sparta Rotterdam, Fortuna Sittard, HFC Haarlem
Brendan	Ormsby	60	Aston Villa, Leeds, Shrewsbury, Doncaster, Scarborough, Wigan

 

Good god, that AND being a billionaire?

[ebless 202]

You can add Peter Cormack of Liverpool, Hibernian and Partick Thistle 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/legendary-hibs-player-peter-cormack-speaks-out-about-his-dementia-920231

 

Also Davie Sneddon of Kilmarnock, Dundee, Preston and Raith Rovers 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39103570

[Octopus of Odstock 1,848]

26 minutes ago, ebless said:

You can add Peter Cormack of Liverpool, Hibernian and Partick Thistle 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/legendary-hibs-player-peter-cormack-speaks-out-about-his-dementia-920231

 

Also Davie Sneddon of Kilmarnock, Dundee, Preston and Raith Rovers 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39103570

 

Thank you - the Sneddon article also refers to Joe Mason, ex-Kilmarnock and Rangers also being affected by the disease. So I've added them all on.

[RoverAndOut 3,384]

4 hours ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

Roger Hunt 82 Liverpool, Bolton England 34

 

It feels heresy to question your estimable research so I'm sure I'm wrong, but where's your info about Roger Hunt having dementia? I don't recall it coming up in the recent discussion of Bobby Charlton's diagnosis and a quick search on Google for 'Roger Hunt dementia' brought several references to other members of the 66 team with dementia, but I found no mention of him personally suffering from the disease.

 

This article I posted in the Boys of 66 thread from January talks about the possibility of Liverpool winning the title and contains several memories of past games and no mention of dementia. I'm still assuming I'm wrong, but thought I'd ask the question. 

[ebless 202]

2 hours ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

Thank you - the Sneddon article also refers to Joe Mason, ex-Kilmarnock and Rangers also being affected by the disease. So I've added them all on.

 

Mason actually passed away in September 2019. Sneddon is still alive however. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-joe-mason-footballer-and-highly-respected-first-team-coach-rangers-1405127

[Sir Creep 7,011]

Because it was important to distinguish them from all footballers.  

[Ulitzer95 10,919]

4 hours ago, Sir Creep said:

Because it was important to distinguish them from all footballers.  

SC, just leave the forum. It’s evident that you’re not happy with the general conduct of other users here as all you ever do is whinge and complain.

In the UK there’s a big conversation going on right now about whether using your head to hit the ball in association football should be banned because of the statistical likeliness of former professionals developing dementia. Therefore it’s very topical right now, and as the posts above demonstrate, focusing a list leads to other users providing new names. All useful for deadpooling which is why we’re ultimately here. I don’t recall you unearthing any fresh possibilities lately. Just copy and pasting news articles and constantly moaning.

So either contribute or just STFU and take your sarcasm elsewhere. Stop trying to belittle other users, especially ones who have been here for far longer than you. 

[TQR 12,024]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

SC, just leave the forum. It’s evident that you’re not happy with the general conduct of other users here as all you ever do is whinge and complain.

 

In the UK there’s a big conversation going on right now about whether using your head to hit the ball in association football should be banned because of the statistical likeliness of former professionals developing dementia. Therefore it’s very topical right now,

“Fucking retarded UK-centric noob”

[Octopus of Odstock 1,848]

18 hours ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

It feels heresy to question your estimable research so I'm sure I'm wrong, but where's your info about Roger Hunt having dementia? I don't recall it coming up in the recent discussion of Bobby Charlton's diagnosis and a quick search on Google for 'Roger Hunt dementia' brought several references to other members of the 66 team with dementia, but I found no mention of him personally suffering from the disease.

 

This article I posted in the Boys of 66 thread from January talks about the possibility of Liverpool winning the title and contains several memories of past games and no mention of dementia. I'm still assuming I'm wrong, but thought I'd ask the question. 

 

You are indeed right. My notes came from an article in 2016 that reported Hunt as suffering from memory loss (Daily Express, I should have known better) and I had put a mental note against his name. He seems, as far as I'm now aware, very well, as per the link you posted - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/690296/David-Cameron-urged-honour-1966-World-Cup-heroes-knighthoods   (note the correction at the top)

[Octopus of Odstock 1,848]

18 hours ago, ebless said:

 

Mason actually passed away in September 2019. Sneddon is still alive however. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-joe-mason-footballer-and-highly-respected-first-team-coach-rangers-1405127

 

Well, that shows you how bloody useless Wikipedia is. The next time they want £2 per person, they had better get their pages updated. Thanks, I'll update it accordingly.

[RoverAndOut 3,384]

7 minutes ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

You are indeed right. My notes came from an article in 2016 that reported Hunt as suffering from memory loss (Daily Express, I should have known better) and I had put a mental note against his name. He seems, as far as I'm now aware, very well, as per the link you posted - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/690296/David-Cameron-urged-honour-1966-World-Cup-heroes-knighthoods   (note the correction at the top)

 

Makes sense. Stupid tabloids, but at least it's cleared up - good to know a few of the 66 lads are still in decent shape at least!

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,132]

1 hour ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

Well, that shows you how bloody useless Wikipedia is. The next time they want £2 per person, they had better get their pages updated. Thanks, I'll update it accordingly.

You old skinflint! 

[ladyfiona 2,028]

Should this thread also include ex rugby players because they get brain damage more than footballers i'm sure?

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,132]

13 minutes ago, ladyfiona said:

Should this thread also include ex rugby players because they get brain damage more than footballers i'm sure?

Some may argue that they must already be brain damaged for wanting to go out and play the game anyway.

Obviously, that's not me.

[Sideik 236]

 

1 hour ago, ladyfiona said:

Should this thread also include ex rugby players because they get brain damage more than footballers i'm sure?

Or american football, I've seen a movie about this...I had to search for the title but it was easy: "Concussion" with Will Smith

Anyway...if all the concussion stuff is true I think Raul Jimenez made a big leap towards the illness today...

[Sean 5,997]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/13409745/kenny-sansom-dementia-brain-disorder/ : Kenny Sansom diagnosed with Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome a type of dementia which is alcohol-induced normally.The statement says this is reversible.Only 20% of cases are and that is dependent on abstaining from alcohol.

[The Old Crem 3,164]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

We now have dementia cases for Rugby players.

 

My dad still thinks it's a hoax and he is does not believe they is a link.

[TQR 12,024]

This thread should probably be extended to include Rugby players; Steve Thompson, off of England’s World Cup winning Rugby Union squad of 2003, has early onset dementia at the age of 42 and can’t remember winning the cup.

 

He and several other under-45s affected are planning on taking legal action against the RFU.

[gcreptile 10,210]

10 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

This thread should probably be extended to include Rugby players; Steve Thompson, off of England’s World Cup winning Rugby Union squad of 2003, has early onset dementia at the age of 42 and can’t remember winning the cup.

 

He and several other under-45s affected are planning on taking legal action against the RFU.

Oh wow, more than 70 players..

Daily Mail also has Michael Lipman, Mouritz Botha, Carl Hayman, Geoff Old:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9028737/Rugby-faces-concussion-lawsuit-bombshell-70-former-players-plan-sue-head-injuries.html

[Grim Up North 3,565]

11 minutes ago, The Old Crem said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

We now have dementia cases for Rugby players.

 

My dad still thinks it's a hoax and he is does not believe they is a link.

 

9 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

This thread should probably be extended to include Rugby players; Steve Thompson, off of England’s World Cup winning Rugby Union squad of 2003, has early onset dementia at the age of 42 and can’t remember winning the cup.

 

He and several other under-45s affected are planning on taking legal action against the RFU.

 

When rugby went professional it changed the game from a game for all shapes and sizes to a game for brick shit houses - the hits they take every game week in and week out must far exceed the punishment most professional boxers take and they probably have 3 months between bouts.

 

30 years ago the forwards who were in the scrum only caught up with the play again once the ball had gone out of play whereas now they are in the game taking hits throughout.

 

Even American football is kinder because you are either in attack or defence so only on the pitch for half a game.

 

I can see rugby as we know it being banned within 10 years.

[gcreptile 10,210]

Googling "rugby dementia" reveals a current flood:

 

Alix Popham:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/55208227

 

James Haskell:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12807234/rugby-james-haskell-hartley-dementia-warning/

 

Also a Telegraph article a couple of hours ago...

[TQR 12,024]

1 minute ago, gcreptile said:

Googling "rugby dementia" reveals a current flood:

 

Alix Popham:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/55208227

 

James Haskell:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12807234/rugby-james-haskell-hartley-dementia-warning/

 

Also a Telegraph article a couple of hours ago...

Worth saying that Haskell does not exhibit signs of dementia but one of his squad mates has it.

[RoverAndOut 3,384]

On 28/11/2020 at 20:37, Octopus of Odstock said:

Recent reports suggest a minimum of 375 former footballers have dementia or some form of degenerative brain disease, but other people like Tony Cascarino suspect it is a lot more according to reports. For privacy reasons, not all 375 are going to reveal but with so many footballers now coming public and with the hapless Gordon Taylor now gone at the PFA, many more may now reveal their plight.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to record those living for research purposes.

 

It's not my thread, so I'm not making a judgement one way or the other, but is the purpose of the thread not being muddied if we start throwing in NFL players and rugby players? This was specifically about the increasing numbers of footballers coming forward with forms of dementia, to see just how widespread an issue it is. I don't deny there are issues in other sports (the NFL's has been widely publicised in recent years) but does it not threaten to become 'just another thread about degenerative diseases'? Maybe we extend it to 'Dementia in Sport' in which case, do we lump the boxers who inevitably end up in this situation too?

 

Octopus hasn't waded in to dispute the widening of his original intention, so maybe I'm in the minority and I totally agree there are issues in many different sports (I came here to see if anyone had reported Steve Thompson et al's suing plans) but it felt like this started off like the 'Oldest Living Footballers' thread and is now losing it's focus. Just my opinion. 

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is whether making this an all-encompassing thread is the lesser of two evils when compared to two further threads for "NFL concussion-related issues' and 'Rugby concussion-related issues' or whether that would be a better plan?