msc 18,437 Posted March 6, 2016 Doug looking grumpy but healthier than his team during Match of the Day. It is useful to have a Deathlist candidate we can have nearly weekly progress checks on, even if they looking rather unlikely candidates for the Reaper right now. [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,940 Posted March 6, 2016 I'd just like to thank Doug Ellis for his role in making Villa a club that makes Newcastle look ever so slightly less shit. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted March 10, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom 2,533 Posted March 10, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GossipGabe 333 Posted March 10, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. To be fair, the American system has some advantages as well. Yeah, they don't have relegation, but all of their major sports leagues have playoffs, where only the teams with the best records participate. It's a bit like the FA Cup, where there's no "relegation", but badly performing teams knocked out in the early phases won't get nearly as much coverage as those playing for the Superbowl (or the Cup final in the Wembley Stadium) Americans also have a nice draft system, which favours the worst performers, so they can be a little bit better after a shite season, and salary caps to make sure that there is a level playing field between big and small teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Creep 7,070 Posted March 11, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. I thought it was pretty straightforward. Surely I have the names wrong and that part isn't relevant, but isn't it basically if you finish with the worst record(s) you get booted to League 1 and the leader(s) of League 1 moves up to take your spot in Premier League or whatever? Oh I could look it up but where's the fun in that? Anyway, I await enlightening. What I DO NOT understand is how Wigan won the FA Cup but was relegated. Now that takes some 'splainin. And at least a minor admission that that's fucking stupid. SC SC 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,437 Posted March 11, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. I thought it was pretty straightforward. Surely I have the names wrong and that part isn't relevant, but isn't it basically if you finish with the worst record(s) you get booted to League 1 and the leader(s) of League 1 moves up to take your spot in Premier League or whatever? Oh I could look it up but where's the fun in that? Anyway, I await enlightening. What I DO NOT understand is how Wigan won the FA Cup but was relegated. Now that takes some 'splainin. And at least a minor admission that that's fucking stupid. SC SC Yeah, that's the basic jist. Though the league below the Premier League got rebranded about a decade ago to become The Championship. A decision so stupid, the Scottish league has followed suit, ffs. As for Wigan, the cups aren't connected to the league, they're entirely separate entities. So Wigan were a good cup team but a not so good league team that season. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted March 11, 2016 [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. To be fair, the American system has some advantages as well. Yeah, they don't have relegation, but all of their major sports leagues have playoffs, where only the teams with the best records participate. It's a bit like the FA Cup, where there's no "relegation", but badly performing teams knocked out in the early phases won't get nearly as much coverage as those playing for the Superbowl (or the Cup final in the Wembley Stadium) Americans also have a nice draft system, which favours the worst performers, so they can be a little bit better after a shite season, and salary caps to make sure that there is a level playing field between big and small teams. Well, one might argue that it seems a little odd that a team can win every match in the regular season, then two play off matches to reach the Superbowl but can lose to a team who might have won less than half of their games in a weak division and then fought through pre-season to stunningly win the Superbowl. Oh, and this is called a 'league'. And also, how come all American sports seem to make their winners 'World Champions'? The draft is a nifty idea, but a little bit artificial. And it doesn't necessarily make that much difference. Ask any Jacksonville Jaguars fan, or on the flip side a New England Patriots fan. That said, a situation where you never need to worry more than a team who usually finish 12th in the Premier League would be nice, if dull if it was always the case. [Notes for Sir Creep: Ellis's former football club, Aston Villa, are having whats known as a fucking shite season. Relegation certs, and the cameras show Ellis in the crowd each week on Match of the Day looking various degrees of pissed off about the whole thing.] Further notes for Sir Creep: relegation is something that proper sports leagues have to create consequences for bad decision-making and awful play. Americans don't really understand the relegation process. I've tried explaining it to a few here (at work) with very little success. I thought it was pretty straightforward. Surely I have the names wrong and that part isn't relevant, but isn't it basically if you finish with the worst record(s) you get booted to League 1 and the leader(s) of League 1 moves up to take your spot in Premier League or whatever? Oh I could look it up but where's the fun in that? Anyway, I await enlightening. What I DO NOT understand is how Wigan won the FA Cup but was relegated. Now that takes some 'splainin. And at least a minor admission that that's fucking stupid. SC SC Oooook, let's try and clear this up... PREMIER LEAGUE - Top division, winners win the League (NO PLAYOFFS SO 6TH END UP WINNING). 1st and 2nd qualify for the European Champions League Group Stage (a cup competition held during the regular season), 3rd and 4th qualify for the qualifying rounds to get to the European Champions League Group Stage. 5th and 6th (and sometimes 7th dependent on who wins the cups) qualify for the Europa League, the second tier European club competition. The 3 bottoms clubs, 18th, 19th and 20th are ALL relegated to the second tier, the CHAMPIONSHIP (Cos we like confusing names). CHAMPIONSHIP - Formerly Division 1, before that Division 2, when Division 1 referred to the Premier League. Top 2 are guaranteed promotion to the Premier League, 3rd through 6th do take part in play-offs of semi-finals and final to decide who takes the third promotion spot (so 1st, 2nd and 6th could go up and 3rd stay down). Bottom 3 clubs (in the Championship that's 22nd, 23rd and 24th...) are relegated to the third tier, League One. LEAGUE ONE - Formerly Division 2 and Division 3. Same promotion as the Championship, top 2 and next 4 in play-offs. Bottom 4 (FOUR) clubs (21st, 22nd, 23rd and 24th) are relegated to the bottom tier of the Football League, League Two. LEAGUE TWO - Formerly Division 3 and Division 4. Top THREE are promoted to League One, 4th through 7th take part in play-offs for the final promotion spot. Bottom TWO sides (23rd and 24th) are relegated out of the Football League to the National League, formerly called the Football Conference, which is the first tier of non-league football, but....which is still organised in league formats...the basic difference is non-league teams are semi-professional or amateur and almost all Football League sides are pro (I think they have to be? Someone else can confirm that I'm sure...) Anyway, promotion from the National League is the Champions and then 2nd through 5th have play-offs for the other spot. 2 major domestic cup competitions: The Football League Cup (usually known by a sponsor's name - currently the Capitol One Cup after a credit card company...) which is entered by all 92 League clubs, at different stages dependent on how high up the league pyramid they are (Most enter in Round 1, the last couple of the top clubs in Round 3, 7 rounds in total). The FA Cup is the oldest cup competition in the world and pre-dates the league by the best part of 10 years (mid-1870s, first league season was 1888). Any team can enter the FA Cup and at different stages, different leagues get involved, starting with the Extra Preliminary Qualifying Round, a Preliminary Qualifying Round, 4 Rounds of Qualifying Rounds (and a league team hasn't entered yet...). The survivors enter Round 1 Proper, where the League 1 and 2 teams enter, in Round 3, the remaining teams are joined by all the Championship and Premiership teams. As a result, it is technically possible for a pub team to draw Manchester United in Round 3, assuming they survive 8 rounds to get there. The Final is technically Round 8 proper, and Round 14 of the entire tournament. Oh yeah, and draws go to a single replay in the FA Cup, before the usual extra time and penalties football deciders. And there are no seedings (another thing you yanks love) so Manchester United can draw Chelsea straight out of the gate, but equally Blyth Spartans could draw Bradford Park Avenue in the same round and avoid the big guns. Oh, and the winners of both cups qualify for the Europa League, unless they qualify for the Champions League through the Premiership, in which case, the Europa League spot reverts to the league - hence why sometimes 7th get in as well... So basically, Wigan (who entered the FA Cup in the 3rd round as a Premier League side) won their respective 5 rounds to reach the final, and then beat Manchester City through a shock late headed goal by a ginger nut. Meanwhile, their league form was not so good, and having flirted with relegation for several seasons, their luck ran out and they still got relegated from the League. Incidentally, Wigan are now in League One, having been relegated again but hope to be promoted back to the Championship this season. In summary: Premier League - 20 teams, winners win, top 6 or 7 play in Europe the following season, bottom 3 relegated to Championship. Championship - 24 teams, top 2 promoted, next 4 play-off for 1 more promotion slot, bottom 3 relegated to League One. League One - 24 teams, top 2 promoted, next 4 play-off for 1 more promotion slot, bottom 4 relegated to League Two. League Two - 24 teams, top 3 promoted, next 4 play-off for 1 more promotion slot, bottom 2 relegated out of the Football League to the National League. National League - first tier of non-league football. 24 teams, Champions promoted, next 4 play-off for 1 more promotion slot, bottom 3 relegated to next tier of non-league football... League Cup - Open to 92 league teams, 72 in the first round, 36 winners plus 12 more in second round, 24 winners plus 8 remaining teams in third round, from there straight knock-out format. FA Cup - Open to anyone. Extra Preliminary Round, Preliminary Round, 4 rounds of qualifying, remaining 32 qualifying survivors joined by 48 teams from bottom 2 tiers, at round 3, remaining 20 teams joined by 44 from top two divisions and from there it's straight knock-out. There are other lower league cup competitions but really this is confusing enough. And yes, I know I just mocked your own stupid rules but it all makes perfect sense to us... Apologies for the essay. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted March 11, 2016 I thought it was pretty straightforward. Surely I have the names wrong and that part isn't relevant, but isn't it basically if you finish with the worst record(s) you get booted to League 1 and the leader(s) of League 1 moves up to take your spot in Premier League or whatever? Oh I could look it up but where's the fun in that? Anyway, I await enlightening. What I DO NOT understand is how Wigan won the FA Cup but was relegated. Now that takes some 'splainin. And at least a minor admission that that's fucking stupid. SC SC Yeah, that's the basic jist. Though the league below the Premier League got rebranded about a decade ago to become The Championship. A decision so stupid, the Scottish league has followed suit, ffs. As for Wigan, the cups aren't connected to the league, they're entirely separate entities. So Wigan were a good cup team but a not so good league team that season. In short, what msc said. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,437 Posted March 11, 2016 Hey, it was my annual suprisingly succinct reply! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted March 31, 2016 Has spoken up in support of Randy Lerner's superb dismantling of his football club on BBC Radio 5 Live. There's a link in the article to a clip from the interview. Sounds fighting fit to me for a 92 year old... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35931220 Clip link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pjzjt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,940 Posted March 31, 2016 Has spoken up in support of Randy Lerner's superb dismantling of his football club on BBC Radio 5 Live. There's a link in the article to a clip from the interview. Sounds fighting fit to me for a 92 year old... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35931220 Clip link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pjzjt Muted support. He seems pretty pissed off that Lerner stays in the US and doesn't bother asking for his help. His voice sounds warn and that picture of him looks unflattering to say the least/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spade_Cooley 9,515 Posted March 31, 2016 Don't think I've ever felt more sorry for a Premier League manager than Remi Garde. Maybe Terry Connor when he was pretty much crying on every Match of the Day. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted March 31, 2016 Has spoken up in support of Randy Lerner's superb dismantling of his football club on BBC Radio 5 Live. There's a link in the article to a clip from the interview. Sounds fighting fit to me for a 92 year old... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35931220 Clip link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pjzjt Muted support. He seems pretty pissed off that Lerner stays in the US and doesn't bother asking for his help. His voice sounds warn and that picture of him looks unflattering to say the least/ I don't think he looks that bad for a 92 year old man. And he's clearly sharp as a tack. Don't think he's going this year, but you never know. Don't think I've ever felt more sorry for a Premier League manager than Remi Garde. Maybe Terry Connor when he was pretty much crying on every Match of the Day. Yeah, he got screwed with his pants on. Promised money to invest that never materialised and given a team that had given up or just weren't capable. Still maintained a level of dignity lacking in some managers in similar situations, my example is always Mick McCarthy during THAT Sunderland season where they got 17 points or whatever it was. Every MOTD interview was the same... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,571 Posted April 1, 2016 Has spoken up in support of Randy Lerner's superb dismantling of his football club on BBC Radio 5 Live. There's a link in the article to a clip from the interview. Sounds fighting fit to me for a 92 year old... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35931220 Clip link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03pjzjt Muted support. He seems pretty pissed off that Lerner stays in the US and doesn't bother asking for his help. His voice sounds warn and that picture of him looks unflattering to say the least/ I don't think he looks that bad for a 92 year old man. And he's clearly sharp as a tack. Don't think he's going this year, but you never know. Don't think I've ever felt more sorry for a Premier League manager than Remi Garde. Maybe Terry Connor when he was pretty much crying on every Match of the Day. Yeah, he got screwed with his pants on. Promised money to invest that never materialised and given a team that had given up or just weren't capable. Still maintained a level of dignity lacking in some managers in similar situations, my example is always Mick McCarthy during THAT Sunderland season where they got 17 points or whatever it was. Every MOTD interview was the same... All this season demonstrated was Remi Garde's lack of turd polishing skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat O'Falk 3,290 Posted April 17, 2016 Doug Ellis 'hopes to be alive' for Aston Villa Premier League return. "I hope I will still be alive - I am only 92 remember - to see that happen." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,940 Posted April 17, 2016 Doug Ellis 'hopes to be alive' for Aston Villa Premier League return. "I hope I will still be alive - I am only 92 remember - to see that happen." He wants to live to 192? 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,644 Posted April 17, 2016 Doug Ellis 'hopes to be alive' for Aston Villa Premier League return. "I hope I will still be alive - I am only 92 remember - to see that happen." He wants to live to 192? Well, it's a serious question as to whether he will be. My money would be on Villa returning to the top flight (on the size of the club and strength of the competition in the second tier) within four seasons. They'll need to offload the over-paid and generally useless people they have now, probably including their current owner. So Doug would be 96/97 if he saw them back again. Hmm, dunno. What does anyone else reckon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spade_Cooley 9,515 Posted April 17, 2016 What does anyone else reckon? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted April 18, 2016 Doug Ellis 'hopes to be alive' for Aston Villa Premier League return. "I hope I will still be alive - I am only 92 remember - to see that happen." He wants to live to 192? Well, it's a serious question as to whether he will be. My money would be on Villa returning to the top flight (on the size of the club and strength of the competition in the second tier) within four seasons. They'll need to offload the over-paid and generally useless people they have now, probably including their current owner. So Doug would be 96/97 if he saw them back again. Hmm, dunno. What does anyone else reckon? Not convinced myself. Maybe, but they may need to do a Southampton/Norwich and go down to League One then do back-to-back promotions to get there inside 4 years. As a Blackburn fan, I'm well aware of how shoddy management at the higher levels can make immediate/near immediate returns difficult. See also Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and more recent examples such as Bolton and Fulham. The Championship is hugely competitive, something that is often overlooked. In a given season anyone can beat anyone and it can be a shock to the system for new teams. Few cases in point: a couple of seasons ago, when Cardiff won the Championship comfortably, they lost home and away to Peterborough, who were relegated the same season. Last season, Brighton were nowhere, just avoiding the drop. This season they're flying and in with a chance of getting into the Premier League. Here are the performances of teams who got relegated since 09/10 (colours represent: relegated the season after promotion, relegated two seasons after promotion, relegated three seasons after promotion) 09/10 10/11 11/12 18. Burnley - 8, 13, 11, 2 (promoted in 13/14) 18. Birmingham - 4, 12, 21, 10 (still in Championship) 18. Bolton - 7, 14, 18, 24 (relegation to League One confirmed) 19. Hull - 11, 8, 2 (promoted in 12/13) 19. Blackpool - 5, 15, 20, 24, currently in danger of dropping to League Two 19. Blackburn - 17, 8, 9 (still in Championship) 20. Portsmouth - freefall (currently in League Two) 20. West Ham - 3, promoted in 11/12 through play-offs 20. Wolves - relegated to League One in 12/13 but promoted straight back, currently in Championship 12/13 13/14 14/15 18. Wigan - 5, 23, currently on for immediate promotion from League One 18. Norwich - 4, promoted in 14/15 through play-offs 18. Hull - currently 4, on for a play-off place 19. Reading - 7, 19 (still in Championship) 19. Fulham - 17 (still in Championship) 19. Burnley currently 2, possible automatic promotion 20. QPR - 4, promoted in 13/14 through play-offs 20. Cardiff - 11 (still in Championship) 20. QPR - 11, no chance of promotion this season As you can see, only West Ham have been promoted the year after relegation having been in the Premier League for a period of longer than 3 seasons (in their case 6). Indeed, of the five other sides in a similar boat, three have actually been relegated again and the other two are still in the Championship. The last comparable situation to Villa's (long-established top flight side, large fanbase) would be Newcastle, who did manage to bounce straight back after relegation in 08/09 by winning the Championship in 09/10, however whatever you think of Mike Ashley (and there's plenty to think), Newcastle were in a far better place to bounce straight back than Villa are, not least thanks to unearthing a local lad who scored a shedload of goals to get them back up in Andy Carroll. Plus Newcastle were relegated on the last day of the season previous with 34 points and 7 wins, while Villa are going down with 16 points (currently) and 3 wins, no confidence, haven't won more league games than they've lost since 2009/10 and haven't finished above 15th since 2010/11. I've tried to find a side with a similar record, but it's rare a team does so badly for so long without going down. Best example I can find is Wigan, who were promoted in 04/05 and had the following results: 10, 17, 14, 11, 16, 16, 15, 18 (relegated). In none of those seasons did Wigan win more games than they lost and there's only so many times you can escape. By then, they'd been in the Premiership for 8 seasons and had a relatively decent squad (i.e. not packed full of championship stalwarts) and haven't been up since, as the table above shows, instead they were relegated again last season after just two seasons in the Championship. The only thing going for them is that they have a squad that should be well-built for the Championship, with players who have experience at that level (Gestede scored goals for fun for us, would have him back in a heartbeat) plus some experienced heads like Lescott and Agbonlahor, but how many are still going to be there next season and what mental state will they be in? I know this is stats-heavy but make of it what you will. I reckon it will be difficult for Villa next season and, unless they get it right this summer (and picking the next manager will be crucial) they could easily be in a relegation fight next season. Or they could make me look like a fool and win the division at a canter. But I wouldn't put your money on it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,571 Posted April 19, 2016 I heard a bit of an interview with him on Radio 2 yesterday morning. Sounded healthy enough but was clearly delusional as he said Villa weren't that bad this season. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom 2,533 Posted April 19, 2016 I heard a bit of an interview with him on Radio 2 yesterday morning. Sounded healthy enough but was clearly delusional as he said Villa weren't that bad this season. He's right, they weren't that bad. They were bloody awful. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,644 Posted April 25, 2016 I heard a bit of an interview with him on Radio 2 yesterday morning. Sounded healthy enough but was clearly delusional as he said Villa weren't that bad this season. He's right, they weren't that bad. They were bloody awful. Delusional, or maybe so stuck in the past he still rates players on fitness and levels of invention that would have passed muster in the seventies when half of them smoked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
