dead Max Schmeling

[Grim Reaper 186]

The bottom line is that we're not going to change the description - however there is plenty of debate etc on this site which puts Max in the light he probably deserved

[Tuber Mirum 125]

Yes sure.... It's us who don't know the facts.

 

If you'd like to enlighten me, what facts I'm not aware of, I would really welcome it.

 

 

I - for my part - protested against the description as soon as I found this website.

And believe me, I really have a problem with it. Because every time someone - who is not aware of all the facts - especially people who are not living in Germany, and especially Americans and British (I don't have anything against you guys, but you are not what I would call informed about history) feel strengthened in their opinion, that every German is a Nazi, and that everything in Germany is as it was 60 years ago.

Nobody knows the facts. History is, as we were recently reminded, always written by the victors and "historical fact" can never be regarded as impartial or accurate.

 

We know that we don't know the facts. We also know that you don't know them either. Anyone claiming to be in posession of all the facts is generally speaking, wrong.

 

You are jumping to conclusions about the members of the Deathlist. And you have some unfounded prejudices about us. We know what a liberal and enlightened place Germany is now. And very few people think it hasn't changed in the last 60 years. Some of us also happen to have lived there for the past 12 years. The difference is we can make jokes about the war, and the Germans can't because they have serious hangups about it, and no wonder.

 

But the image of germans and Germany in the world is now very positive not least thanks to the efforts of Mr Fischer and other decent, competent, conscientious politicians.

 

Max Schmeling "Hitler's Boxer" may contain some truth, (If you had asked Hitler at one time "who's that?" he may have said "Zat's my Boxer!") but it probably isn't the whole truth, and definitely isn't the whole story.

 

The Powers That Be in the Deathlist chose the Job Description in order to provoke discussion. Which it has done very well.

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

You are jumping to conclusions about the members of the Deathlist. And you have some unfounded prejudices about us. We know what a liberal and enlightened place Germany is now.

Well said sir!

 

(anubis hides his comedy Hitler 'tache and lederhosen awkwardly behind his back and shuffles his feet.)

[Guest iain]

i had never even heard of max schmeling..theresd plenty of people died t his uyear who werent even in the list..for example the actress virginia mayo,and johnny carson..much more famous than max schmeling!

[Guest Anita]

Max Schmeling was a German original. Not an Aryan but a TRUE Celtic German. A man who could do NO harm! He fought with class and helped those who were persecuted by the Nazis. Max? Rest im Frieden

[Kommunist 0]

was hat max schmeling mit hitler zu tun?ungefähr so viel wie ich!also gar nichts.

 

That means: What have Max Schmeling to do with Hitler? Approximately so much as me! Accordingly nothing at all.

 

 

 

Somebody wanted it to be translated, but I don´t know if anyone have translated it yet, so I was the one to do it. Even though I´m swedish I can understand the german language, but you americans seems to understand NOTHING!

[Magere Hein 1,400]

was hat max schmeling mit hitler zu tun?ungefähr so viel wie ich!also gar nichts.

 

That means: What have Max Schmeling to do with Hitler? Approximately so much as me! Accordingly nothing at all.

Something like that.

 

Somebody wanted it to be translated, but I don´t know if anyone have translated it yet, so I was the one to do it. Even though I´m swedish I can understand the german language, but you americans seems to understand NOTHING!

You'll be interested to know that only a few of the members of this forum are Americans and that a few more residents understand German. Some even speak it.

 

One more thing: the communist revolution may not arrive unnoticed, but there's little indication that it will arrive at all, especially in Sweden.

 

regards,

Hein

[Captain Oates 21]

No doubt all the Guardian readers will have seen this already, but here it is anyway for the rest of you.

 

Hitler's Boxer...

[Grim_Rita 4]

I think the Max Schmeling pic you have on the DeathList hompeage needs a re-crop. Shall I use my scythe?

[Guest IYG]

There is a Max Schmeling thread you know, you can just say it there instead of starting a new thread.

[Guest Rita's Admirer]

Yeah Rita!

[Grim_Rita 4]

My thread wasn't about Max Schmeling it was about his picture. Anyways its funny making you move my posts. hahahah

[Guest El Loco]

He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts.

 

It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair.

So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims.

 

How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not?

 

Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop?

 

Whay can't we just all get along...........

No, I'm not the guardian of the Nazi party membership list... but that's not the point. I wanted to express, that Max rejected the sick ideas of nazi regime.

I understand he even saved the lifes of 2 jews and always remained a good friend of joe louis. So, to put in a nutshell I think he was a good guy... unfortunately germany didn't have more men like him that time.

 

Speaking about making jokes about german:

I'm german (at least 50%) and I see that other germans get mortally offended when british press media writes something like "Let's blitz the Krauts" for example.

I simply think that's a pretty exaggerated reaction to a tiny side blow and shouldn't cause endless discussions. So stay cool.

[Terminator 13]

He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts.

 

It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair.

So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims.

 

How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not?

 

Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop?

 

Whay can't we just all get along...........

No, I'm not the guardian of the Nazi party membership list... but that's not the point. I wanted to express, that Max rejected the sick ideas of nazi regime.

I understand he even saved the lifes of 2 jews and always remained a good friend of joe louis. So, to put in a nutshell I think he was a good guy... unfortunately germany didn't have more men like him that time.

 

Speaking about making jokes about german:

I'm german (at least 50%) and I see that other germans get mortally offended when british press media writes something like "Let's blitz the Krauts" for example.

I simply think that's a pretty exaggerated reaction to a tiny side blow and shouldn't cause endless discussions. So stay cool.

You might be interested in the following sites:

 

Using the Altavista search engine, I came across the following:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/fight/peoplee..._schmeling.html

 

This site holds a picture of Max Schmeling, Adoph Hitler and Eva Braun. Some interesting narrative about what Schmeling told the US press about Hitler’s Germany.

 

Again, in Altavista, search for

 

hitler + schmeling + photo

 

The first site listed is “image search results for hitler schmeling”. Have a look in that site and there is a very pally photo of Herr Hitler and Herr Schmeling together.

 

Whatever Max's supporters may say, it looked as though he stood up to Hitler (as well as sucked up to him too).

[Guest One Man Jury]

He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts.

 

It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair.

So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims.

 

How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not?

 

Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop?

 

Whay can't we just all get along...........

No, I'm not the guardian of the Nazi party membership list... but that's not the point. I wanted to express, that Max rejected the sick ideas of nazi regime.

I understand he even saved the lifes of 2 jews and always remained a good friend of joe louis. So, to put in a nutshell I think he was a good guy... unfortunately germany didn't have more men like him that time.

 

Speaking about making jokes about german:

I'm german (at least 50%) and I see that other germans get mortally offended when british press media writes something like "Let's blitz the Krauts" for example.

I simply think that's a pretty exaggerated reaction to a tiny side blow and shouldn't cause endless discussions. So stay cool.

You might be interested in the following sites:

 

Using the Altavista search engine, I came across the following:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/fight/peoplee..._schmeling.html

 

This site holds a picture of Max Schmeling, Adoph Hitler and Eva Braun. Some interesting narrative about what Schmeling told the US press about Hitler’s Germany.

 

Again, in Altavista, search for

 

hitler + schmeling + photo

 

The first site listed is “image search results for hitler schmeling”. Have a look in that site and there is a very pally photo of Herr Hitler and Herr Schmeling together.

 

Whatever Max's supporters may say, it looked as though he stood up to Hitler (as well as sucked up to him too).

Well said Terminator!

 

Proof to some of the contributors here that "apologists" can be interpreted in more than one way.

 

Watch out though or you'll have wacky Comrade kommunist after you.

[Terminator 13]

Watch out though or you'll have wacky Comrade kommunist after you.

I forget....is (s)he the Swede or the Argie?

[Guest One Man Jury]

Watch out though or you'll have wacky Comrade kommunist after you.

I forget....is (s)he the Swede or the Argie?

He's the Swede. Don't mention the Argie!

[Dr. Gill E.Teen, Attorney At Law 0]

He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts.

 

It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair.

So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims.

 

How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not?

 

Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop?

 

Whay can't we just all get along...........

No, I'm not the guardian of the Nazi party membership list... but that's not the point. I wanted to express, that Max rejected the sick ideas of nazi regime.

I understand he even saved the lifes of 2 jews and always remained a good friend of joe louis. So, to put in a nutshell I think he was a good guy... unfortunately germany didn't have more men like him that time.

 

Speaking about making jokes about german:

I'm german (at least 50%) and I see that other germans get mortally offended when british press media writes something like "Let's blitz the Krauts" for example.

I simply think that's a pretty exaggerated reaction to a tiny side blow and shouldn't cause endless discussions. So stay cool.

You might be interested in the following sites:

 

Using the Altavista search engine, I came across the following:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/fight/peoplee..._schmeling.html

 

This site holds a picture of Max Schmeling, Adoph Hitler and Eva Braun. Some interesting narrative about what Schmeling told the US press about Hitler’s Germany.

 

Again, in Altavista, search for

 

hitler + schmeling + photo

 

The first site listed is “image search results for hitler schmeling”. Have a look in that site and there is a very pally photo of Herr Hitler and Herr Schmeling together.

 

Whatever Max's supporters may say, it looked as though he stood up to Hitler (as well as sucked up to him too).

Having been pally with Hitler was probably in Ol' Max's best interest...I would say he was moreover quite the saavy pugilista.

[BluesDragon 0]

I don't know enough about Max Schmeling to say whether he was connected to the nazi party or what he thought of Hitler. I do know however that when Hitler asked Fritz Lang to make Nazi propaganda films, Fritz was promptly gone from Germany. He arguably made his best films when he was in Germany so it didn't really do his career much good but he stood by his priniciples.

 

Max Schmeling did go to lunch with Hitler because he said he had to go. He could have left Germany but he didn't. Granted it was his country so why should he but at the time he was doing well he never fully rejected Hitler, and he was a nazi icon, reluctant or not.

[Guest Inbrainsane]

Hm,

 

Max Schmeling was sent to war. And he was assigned to the paratroopers. He even fought on Kreta and was injured there. Hitler would not have sent his best Sports-star to such dangerous theater if he liked him. Indeed he wanted him to die in Combat.

 

 

I think because of this, it is obvious enough, that you cant think of Schmeling as a supporter of hitler and nationalsocialism.

[Rockabilly 0]

I don't know enough about Max Schmeling to say whether he was connected to the nazi party or what he thought of Hitler. I do know however that when Hitler asked Fritz Lang to make Nazi propaganda films, Fritz was promptly gone from Germany. He arguably made his best films when he was in Germany so it didn't really do his career much good but he stood by his priniciples.

 

Max Schmeling did go to lunch with Hitler because he said he had to go. He could have left Germany but he didn't. Granted it was his country so why should he but at the time he was doing well he never fully rejected Hitler, and he was a nazi icon, reluctant or not.

Howdy!

 

I can`t follow this argument.

 

For your information: Fritz Lang was a german jew! So please tell me only one reason why he should have stayed in Germany? For being killed in a concentration camp sooner or later? Probably not!

 

Max Schmeling was no jew. He loved his job and he loved his country - before, during and after the nazis ruled Germany. So he decided not to leave his country. For me that is no proof of being a nazi!

 

But saving two jewish boys life is a proof of beeing not a nazi! He would`nt have been able to do that if he had left Germany before.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Rockabilly

[BluesDragon 0]

Hm,

 

Max Schmeling was sent to war. And he was assigned to the paratroopers. He even fought on Kreta and was injured there. Hitler would not have sent his best Sports-star to such dangerous theater if he liked him. Indeed he wanted him to die in Combat.

 

 

I think because of this, it is obvious enough, that you cant think of Schmeling as a supporter of hitler and nationalsocialism.

The reason Hitler sent him on the suicidal mission was because he didn't like that Schmeling wouldn't co-operate with him.

Intitially though Schmeling didn't appear to have a problem with Hitler.

[Rockabilly 0]

He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts.

 

It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair.

So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims.

 

How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not?

 

Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop?

 

Whay can't we just all get along...........

No, I'm not the guardian of the Nazi party membership list... but that's not the point. I wanted to express, that Max rejected the sick ideas of nazi regime.

I understand he even saved the lifes of 2 jews and always remained a good friend of joe louis. So, to put in a nutshell I think he was a good guy... unfortunately germany didn't have more men like him that time.

 

Speaking about making jokes about german:

I'm german (at least 50%) and I see that other germans get mortally offended when british press media writes something like "Let's blitz the Krauts" for example.

I simply think that's a pretty exaggerated reaction to a tiny side blow and shouldn't cause endless discussions. So stay cool.

You might be interested in the following sites:

 

Using the Altavista search engine, I came across the following:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/fight/peoplee..._schmeling.html

 

This site holds a picture of Max Schmeling, Adoph Hitler and Eva Braun. Some interesting narrative about what Schmeling told the US press about Hitler’s Germany.

 

Again, in Altavista, search for

 

hitler + schmeling + photo

 

The first site listed is “image search results for hitler schmeling”. Have a look in that site and there is a very pally photo of Herr Hitler and Herr Schmeling together.

 

Whatever Max's supporters may say, it looked as though he stood up to Hitler (as well as sucked up to him too).

Well said Terminator!

 

Proof to some of the contributors here that "apologists" can be interpreted in more than one way.

 

Watch out though or you'll have wacky Comrade kommunist after you.

Hi!

 

Claus Schenck Graf von Stauffenberg is also shown together with Hitler on many pictures.

 

But Claus Schenck Graf von Stauffenberg was the leading figure of the german resistance against Hitler. He ignited the bomb that nearly killed Hitler in 1944.

 

But the bomb only hurt Hitlers arm and killed some other nazis.

 

So: Not everyone who is shown together with Hitler on a picture is a nazi! Some of them even tried to kill him!

 

Greetings from Germany

 

 

Rockabilly

[BluesDragon 0]

Howdy!

 

I can`t follow this argument.

 

My point was that at first Schmeling didn't have a problem with Hitler, If he really disliked Hitler why would he have anything to do with him at all.

 

For your information: Fritz Lang was a german jew! So please tell me only one reason why he should have stayed in Germany?  For being killed in a concentration camp sooner or later? Probably not!

 

First of all Fritz Lang was Austrian not German, he was also only half Jewish. Goebbels new of his Jewish heritage but wasn't concerned because Fritz would clearly have been an asset, like Lenni Riefenstahl. Had he stayed in Germany to make Nazi films they clearly would not have had him killed. The reason he fled was because he refused to have anything to do with the Nazi party and he would most probably have been forced to work for Hitler.

 

Max Schmeling was no jew. He loved his job and he loved his country - before, during and after the nazis ruled Germany. So he decided not to leave his country. For me that is no proof of being a nazi!

 

The thing to remember about Nazi Germany is that the Nazi party was elected by the people (i think it was 60% for, 40% against but that could be wrong). So how could he possibly love his country during the Nazi reign if he didn't like the Nazi's, surely he would have hated his country at that time because of his hatred for the Nazi's

 

But saving two jewish boys life is a proof of beeing not a nazi! He would`nt have been able to do that if he had left Germany before.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Rockabilly

 

I never said Schmeling was a Nazi. Besides saving two Jewish lives is not evidance. We all know Oskar Schindler saved thousands of Jewish lives but he was a member of the Nazi party. Although i do respect that had he have left the party he wouldn't have been able to save as many lives, but he was a Nazi long before he was a Jewish life saver.

 

I am not saying that Max Schmeling was a Nazi or approved of the Nazi's but the fact remains that in the beginning he was well liked by the Nazi party and he didn't appear to have a problem with them. I would have thought that if he truly hated the Nazi party he would never have had anything to do with them at all.

[Rockabilly 0]

 

Howdy!

 

I can`t follow this argument.

 

My point was that at first Schmeling didn't have a problem with Hitler, If he really disliked Hitler why would he have anything to do with him at all.

 

For your information: Fritz Lang was a german jew! So please tell me only one reason why he should have stayed in Germany?  For being killed in a concentration camp sooner or later? Probably not!

 

First of all Fritz Lang was Austrian not German, he was also only half Jewish. Goebbels new of his Jewish heritage but wasn't concerned because Fritz would clearly have been an asset, like Lenni Riefenstahl. Had he stayed in Germany to make Nazi films they clearly would not have had him killed. The reason he fled was because he refused to have anything to do with the Nazi party and he would most probably have been forced to work for Hitler.

 

Max Schmeling was no jew. He loved his job and he loved his country - before, during and after the nazis ruled Germany. So he decided not to leave his country. For me that is no proof of being a nazi!

 

The thing to remember about Nazi Germany is that the Nazi party was elected by the people (i think it was 60% for, 40% against but that could be wrong). So how could he possibly love his country during the Nazi reign if he didn't like the Nazi's, surely he would have hated his country at that time because of his hatred for the Nazi's

 

But saving two jewish boys life is a proof of beeing not a nazi! He would`nt have been able to do that if he had left Germany before.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Rockabilly

 

I never said Schmeling was a Nazi. Besides saving two Jewish lives is not evidance. We all know Oskar Schindler saved thousands of Jewish lives but he was a member of the Nazi party. Although i do respect that had he have left the party he wouldn't have been able to save as many lives, but he was a Nazi long before he was a Jewish life saver.

 

I am not saying that Max Schmeling was a Nazi or approved of the Nazi's but the fact remains that in the beginning he was well liked by the Nazi party and he didn't appear to have a problem with them. I would have thought that if he truly hated the Nazi party he would never have had anything to do with them at all.

Schmeling was the No.1 sportsman in Germany at this time. How shoud he avoid to meet Hitler? Please tell me: What should he have done to show his dislike of Hitler? Hitting an Uppercut in Hitlers face when Hitler met him?

 

By the way: At first not only Schmeling had no problems with Hitler. Many Germans didn`t see Problems - that`s why they elected the NSDAP. Most Germans didn`t know an realize what maniac Hitler was when they elected the NSDAP in 1933. How should they know? At that time Hitler didn`t kill one single jew. Do you think that every elector of the NSDAP read "Mein Kampf"?

 

Fritz Lang was born in Austria - that`s right - but later acquired the German citizenship - like Hitler! In 1935 he acquired the American citizenship. So call him what you want: Austrian, German, American - it doesn?t bother. Fact is that he made Films in Germany and that he was jewish. Half-jewish or jewish didn`t make much difference in the 3rd Reich.

 

In 1933 the NSDAP was elected with 43,9 %. This was before the first concentration camp was erected.

 

I didn`t say that Schmeling loved Hitlers Germany, I said that he loved Germany - that`s a little but fine difference, my friend.

 

Did the Americans hate America during the times they nearly wiped out the indians or enslaved the blacks? I don`t think so!

 

The end of your comment contains a very important message:

 

Schindler was a member of the NSDAP. Schindler saved many jewish lives. So he was a honorable man. I don`t differ in opinion. But that means that not everyone who was a member of the NSDAP liked to kill jews. When this is true then it is also clear that not everyone who elected the NSDAP wanted to exterminate the jews. Remember: The NSDAP (DAP) existed before Hitler became a member of that party.

 

I say: Max Schmeling allways refused to become a member of the NSDAP (and was in big trouble with Hitler because of that) and he also saved at least two jewish lives. So no one should affect Max Schmelings honor.