dead PW Botha

[Tempus Fugit 214]

.

[Banshees Scream 110]

At least we now know how to stop all those Cuban protest posts in the Castro thread. Advise Castro to have full and free elections, but nobody apart from him gets a vote

Now i wouldn't be suprised if the cuban protest

posts double.

[Grim_Rita 4]

I think everyone has got slightly off course in here. Now what I want to know is how is PW Botha and is he going to die soon? Not to much to ask is it my good fellows?

[Canadian Paul 97]

Healthy as a hog for his age I've heard. Living in quiet retirement, so nothing extravagant to take him down.

 

Wouldn't be my first choice on any dead pool.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Marais Viljoen, another South African executive, turns 90 today.

 

What's up with South African leaders and longevity? They must be stealing a lot of years off their people.

[Guest Tony Mullen]

Good point, although the Reaper did catch up with Stijrdom and Verwoerd ahead of schedule, didn't he? Mind you, Malan lived to a ripe old age as I recall. Funny thing about the Broederbond lot living long lives. They claimed to be devout Christians, yet in Botha's case the Lord clearly isn't that keen for him to join Him. Either that or the Devil is still getting his accommodation ready in whatever circle of Hell the bastard ends up in. In any case, all you Saffers out there, keep the champers on ice for the time being. Hopefully you'll soon be needing it.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Good point, although the Reaper did catch up with Stijrdom and Verwoerd ahead of schedule, didn't he? Mind you, Malan lived to a ripe old age as I recall. Funny thing about the Broederbond lot living long lives. They claimed to be devout Christians, yet in Botha's case the Lord clearly isn't that keen for him to join Him. Either that or the Devil is still getting his accommodation ready in whatever circle of Hell the bastard ends up in. In any case, all you Saffers out there, keep the champers on ice for the time being. Hopefully you'll soon be needing it.

Firstly, kudos to you Mr. Mullen for being the first guest poster today who actually has something has valuable to say.

 

Moving on, I'm glad someone reminded us of this thread. There are a lot of these people and, aside from general age, a lot of them are in health. I'm interested in GR's stance on dictators - I think Fidel Castro should be removed, but at least one guy we love to hate should be on here.

 

After all, what would the forums be without some entertainment in the threads?

[Guest just passing through]

I'm sure being deposed takes a lot of stress out of your life. Very few assassins waste their time with former dictators/presidents, unless they continue to make nuisances of themselves.

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

Good point, although the Reaper did catch up with Stijrdom and Verwoerd ahead of schedule, didn't he?  Mind you, Malan lived to a ripe old age as I recall.  Funny thing about the Broederbond lot living long lives.  They claimed to be devout Christians, yet in Botha's case the Lord clearly isn't that keen for him to join Him.  Either that or the Devil is still getting his accommodation ready in whatever circle of Hell the bastard ends up in.  In any case, all you Saffers out there, keep the champers on ice for the time being.  Hopefully you'll soon be needing it.

Firstly, kudos to you Mr. Mullen for being the first guest poster today who actually has something has valuable to say.

 

Moving on, I'm glad someone reminded us of this thread. There are a lot of these people and, aside from general age, a lot of them are in health. I'm interested in GR's stance on dictators - I think Fidel Castro should be removed, but at least one guy we love to hate should be on here.

 

After all, what would the forums be without some entertainment in the threads?

I wouldn't presume to speak for GR, but generally dictators are quite welcome members of any good DL. For a couple of years we had "Old Korean Emperor", technically known as Kim Il Sung, until he died, which was probably my fave death ever. The reasons they're good is that pretty much everyone can have a little celebration when a dictator goes, there's usually little doubt they pass the fame test, there's plenty of media coverage and the world just seems a slightly brighter place for a day or two.

[Tomb raider 9]

I'm interested in GR's stance on dictators - I think Fidel Castro should be removed, but at least one guy we love to hate should be on here.

 

Well, I'd say there's plenty of them. Good old Maggie, for example, is well-hated all over this forum, though she would probably not qualify as a 'dictator', no matter what definition you'd be using. But her debilitating crony from Chile (ranked as no. 40) definitely would, and the odds on a speedy demise of Pinochet seem to be quite good.

 

And not only that, both of them would clearly fit this description:

 

The reasons they're good is that generally everyone can have a little celebration when a dictator goes, there's usually little doubt they pass the fame test, there's plenty of media coverage and the world just seems a slightly brighter place for a day or two.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

raider+Dec 19 2005, 10:51 PM-->

QUOTE(Tom( raider @ Dec 19 2005, 10:51 PM)

And not only that, both of them would clearly fit this description:

 

The reasons they're good is that generally everyone can have a little celebration when a dictator goes, there's usually little doubt they pass the fame test, there's plenty of media coverage and the world just seems a slightly brighter place for a day or two.

I'd use that same description for Cliff Richard's demise.

[Guest The Madam]

Does anyone know what they are talking about here? Does anyone remember exactly why Mandela was sent to prison. The SA government should have hung the bastard. Do you have any idea how many people he killed? Ask yourself - what is the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter. Which one is more deserving?

[Godot 149]

Does anyone know what they are talking about here? Does anyone remember exactly why Mandela was sent to prison. The SA government should have hung the bastard. Do you have any idea how many people he killed? Ask yourself - what is the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter. Which one is more deserving?

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. A matter of opinion.

5. Same matter.

 

A question for you madam: Who killed Steve Biko?

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

A question for you madam: Who killed Steve Biko?

 

With a follow up question (bonus points for this)

Who killed 69 people in Sharpeville.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Mr. Botha is officially a nonagenarian today. I said it for Pryor and I'll say it again. Perhaps this will procure a fatal rise in blood pressure?

 

It appears that it is also former DL candidate Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who turns... something between 89 and 95 today...

Edited January 12, 2006 by Canadian Paul

[Grim_Rita 4]

Happy birthday Pieter! Here's to another 90!

[Guest Guest]

THis topic is bullshit and no one knows what they are talking about.

 

1) PW Botha was a dictator, but only in the fact that hey happened to be president of a country oppressed by a regime. How was however elected by the electorate at the time which makes the term 'dictator' problematic. He believed in old values that are shunned by modern discourse and thinking. It is impossible to understand Aparheid South Africa from heindsight as we are doing here. To him, what he did and stood for was right and just.

 

2) Nelson Mandela is a great man. He is the sole reason South Africa enjoys political and social stability. Without the values and leadership of Mandela, South Africa would probably be engaged in a violent racial civil war which would have destroyed a beautiful country. He engaged in terrorist activities which unfortunately killed people. This was, as he believed the right thing to do.

 

3) South Africa is more corrupt and violent now than during the apartheid era. There are less jobs, more poverty and crime etc. etc. FACT. But regardless, those who are responsible for this corruption have nothing to do with the original Apartheid struggle activists. Nelson Mandela is perhaps and arguably the last remaing true "freedom fighter". The politicians of the modern South Africa are well and truely on the Gravy Train.

 

Old PW "Die Groot Krokadil" (the great crocadile) lives in Wilderness of the South Coast of South Africa. He must be forgiven for any crimes he may have committed in the past, as is in the spirit of reconcilliation in South Africa today.

 

South African History Graduate,

Proud South African.

[Godot 149]

Thank you, you clearly do know what you're talking about. Is he well?

[Windsor 2,233]

2) Nelson Mandela is a great man. He is the sole reason South Africa enjoys political and social stability. Without the values and leadership of Mandela, South Africa would probably be engaged in a violent racial civil war which would have destroyed a beautiful country. He engaged in terrorist activities which unfortunately killed people. This was, as he believed the right thing to do.

You do know your talking about the black man off the telly.

 

[Brinsworth House Baiter 12]

2) Nelson Mandela is a great man. He is the sole reason South Africa enjoys political and social stability. Without the values and leadership of Mandela, South Africa would probably be engaged in a violent racial civil war which would have destroyed a beautiful country. He engaged in terrorist activities which unfortunately killed people. This was, as he believed the right thing to do.

You do know your talking about the black man off the telly.

 

Trevor MacDonald?

[Windsor 2,233]

2) Nelson Mandela is a great man. He is the sole reason South Africa enjoys political and social stability. Without the values and leadership of Mandela, South Africa would probably be engaged in a violent racial civil war which would have destroyed a beautiful country. He engaged in terrorist activities which unfortunately killed people. This was, as he believed the right thing to do.

You do know your talking about the black man off the telly.

 

Trevor MacDonald?

You mean ther have been two black men on the Telly?

Whats this world comming to?

 

Before you know yourself the Empire will fall apart with calls of revolution right left and centre....

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

You mean there have been two black men on the Telly?

Whats this world comming to?

Yup, Trevor McDonald and Charlie Williams.

 

 

Oh, don't forget Derek Griffiths

[Windsor 2,233]

By the way, we don't count the starving African kids on the Oxfam adverts....

[pete 1]

P.W. Botham?

No way, he'll never die

He eats 3 Shredded Wheat each day

[Guest Koos]

SA after the marxist took over-

A NATION OF SCAVENGERSThese are not TAU SA’s words – these are the words of a South African mainstream newspaper columnist, arguably one of the last persons one would expect to pen this headline.But the penny has well and truly dropped with regard to the real beneficiaries and goals of the discredited Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) scam now being perpetrated by the South African government under the guise of “righting the wrongs of the past”.No sector of the South African economy has been left untouched by the attitude of the pro-socialist South African government which has now appeared to have legalized theft. Stealing is normally seen as a crime in the world community. But the SA government’s BEE chicanery takes the cake. It is unique in the world – it makes theft a legal way of life in a country where less than 10% of the population pay taxes, and where the ruling clique continuously dip into the state’s funds by way of corruption and the awarding to themselves of salaries and perks way beyond their competence.BEE in the agricultural sector is particularly illogical and ultimately hazardous to future food production in South Africa. The Department of Agriculture’s “Draft Transformation Charter for Agriculture” has an Alice-in-Wonderland quality to it, and would be laughable if it were not so desperately perilous to the future of South African agriculture.Ideologically driven, it is a concoction of hypothetical plans and conclusions which bear no relation to reality. South African agriculture cannot afford ideology. If this new charter’s plans are carried through, South Africa will face starvation within five to ten years. The ANC’s Freedom Charter is clearly the basis for the document which shows no evidence of any impact studies conducted to give any sort of practical substance to the nonsense contained in this Charter.The South African government is true to form – it is emulating the rest of the continent where “independence” meant shrugging off the influence of Western ways and replacing them with impractical and dangerous policies which ultimately led to he ruin of most of post-colonial Africa.SLOGANSLike so many other consultant-written documents which the SA government proffers as their own, this BEE charter is full of slogans and acronyms. It says commercial farming in South Africa must include emerging black “farmers”, women, black youth and the disabled who must be trained and mentored and assisted in the main by white farmers.Not only are farms up for grabs and ultimate destruction! The entire value chain in the SA agricultural sector is to be parceled out to blacks who will not have earned their roles in this chain, and who will not be selected on their competence to fulfill the tasks which they will be given.The “Scope of Application” of this BEE charter includes “all economic activities relating to the provision of agricultural inputs, services, farming, processing, distribution, logistics and allied activities that add value to agricultural products”. This means that every aspect of the process is to be affected - from the growing of the tomatoes to the harvesting, packing, transporting and the sale of the tomatoes! .“White” management, ownership and control comes under the microscope of this BEE document. “Established Farming Enterprises” are officially defined as those activities which have a predominantly “white” management. (If a commercial activity is run by anyone other than a white, it is not targeted!)The Charter calls for the “deracialisation” of land ownership, but except within the old homelands of South Africa, anyone anywhere can own land. Land (and farm) ownership is not restricted to any particular race. What is meant here is that white land must be taken, not land that belongs to any other race group! The “Objectives” of the Charter are illuminating, and reveal the mind set of ideologues whose motive is revenge and resentment and who, indeed, harbour monumental inferiority complexes. There must be a “substantial change in the racial composition of ownership and management structures of existing and new enterprises”. This in the so-called non-racial new South Africa!The Charter’s ideological bent stretches the imagination! The “full entrepreneurial skills and the potential of black people” must be unlocked! But who locked this potential in before the whites arrived in South Africa? A whole continent of great agricultural potential lay before the eyes of those millions of blacks who occupied it. Why wasn’t this agricultural and entrepreneurial potential realised before the Whites came?The answer is clear. There was no potential, otherwise it would have been utilized in bringing sub-Saharan into the modern world. Entrepreneurship cannot be taught – it can only be assisted and nurtured.This is why this Charter will spectacularly and disastrously fail. You cannot plant the seed on barren land and expect results. The goals and expectations of this BEE Charter for agriculture and indeed the charters foisted on other sectors of the South African economy – health, property development, mining, business enterprises – are based on false premises, and for that reason their goals are unattainable.This Charter documents theft by legislation. It targets a sector of the South African economy which is fragile and which cannot restore itself if the Charter’s aims are not realized. It expects commercial farmers to not only give away portions of their farms and carry parasitical baggage in the form of superfluous managers and others who will contribute nothing to the improvement of the farming enterprise, but it expects farmers to help with this very theft in the form of the new BEE buzzword – mentorship!Established agribusiness enterprises are also asked to undertake the provision of community education facilities, training programmes aimed at “skills development”, job creation programmes in agriculture, the provision of community clinics and health programmes and - wait for it – the development of new talent in arts and culture and sport development!Thus the commercial farming sector is also to become a social welfare arm of the South African government which has proved itself incompetent, corrupt, racially resentful and vengeful. Which farming community in the world would accept these ludicrous demands?No wonder the press calls the ANC government’s BEE creators “packs of wild hyenas” Says Money Web’s Barry Sergeant” “The recent wave of BEE deals has left us with a taste of naked disgust”. He outlined the recipients of huge amounts of cash by people who have benefited from BEE schemes because they are black – R342 million for Northern Cape premier Mannie Dipico, Sasol’s Kyaya Ngcula - R172 million, Penuel Maduna - R268 million and Phuthuma Nmhleko - R172 million.This is just the tip of the iceberg. The scavengers are everywhere. Unable to create anything themselves, they prey upon those who do, and have no shame at enriching themselves while their fellow blacks stand by the roadside looking for work and a chance to eat.TAU SA rejects the BEE agricultural charter with the contempt it deserves. The world should take note of the scandals erupting in the new South Africa. Or did the world expect it to happen anyway because, essentially, why would the ANC be any different from the rest in this hapless corrupt and venal continent?SOUTH AFRICA BULLETIN from the headquarters of the TAU SANovember 2005