Time Added

[Death in Vegas 3]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

[themaninblack 2,112]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

[Josco 49]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

Do you mean Fergie as in the 'Ginger Minge', married to some Johnnie called Andrew Windsor?

[Twelvetrees 10]

Five of Ferguson's predecessors are still with us, as well:

Tommy Docherty (now 78)

Frank O'Farrell (79)

Dave Sexton (76)

Wilf McGuinness (69)

and the disgraced Ron Atkinson (67), currently the director of football at Kettering Town

[themaninblack 2,112]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

Do you mean Fergie as in the 'Ginger Minge', married to some Johnnie called Andrew Windsor?

 

Either suits me!

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

 

or Steve McClaren. The man's certifiable. He has a naturally left footed player who's played some games at left back this season, but instead picks Phil Neville, whose last memorable contribution at the position was bringing down a Romanian in the 89th minute to knock England out of Euro 2000. He starts Wright-Phillips, whose only full 90 mins this season was against Wycombe. He isolates Crouch up front, tells Lampard he's playing left midfield which he ignores, then gives Barton a massive 10 minutes to prove his international pedigree.

 

Maybe he's copying Sven's old trick of trying to lose friendlies so everyone thinks they're rubbish. If so, mission accomplished last night.

[Olveres 8]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

 

or Steve McClaren. The man's certifiable. He has a naturally left footed player who's played some games at left back this season, but instead picks Phil Neville, whose last memorable contribution at the position was bringing down a Romanian in the 89th minute to knock England out of Euro 2000. He starts Wright-Phillips, whose only full 90 mins this season was against Wycombe. He isolates Crouch up front, tells Lampard he's playing left midfield which he ignores, then gives Barton a massive 10 minutes to prove his international pedigree.

 

Maybe he's copying Sven's old trick of trying to lose friendlies so everyone thinks they're rubbish. If so, mission accomplished last night.

 

Steve Mclaren should never have got the job, his last game as a club manager, a 4-1 UEFA Cup bending over and I didn't see Middlesborough in the top half of the table at the end of the season either if memory serves me correctly. Sorry Steve but it's a definite straight for you. He'll be gone as soon as England fail to qualify for Euro 2008. This thread could go all Graham Poll at this rate, two reds in one post!!!

[Death in Vegas 3]

Given that being a top level football manager is generally considered a rather stressful job, does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before we get another Jock Stein incident. We nearly had one a few years ago with Gerard Houllier. Prime contenders for me would be Neil Warnock and Luiz Felipe Scolari.

 

There are also a number of famous ex managers who are getting on a bit. Bobby Robson's health problems are well documented, Mario Zagallo is well into his seventies and has suffered from an irregular heart-beat in the past, and it will surely only be a matter of time until Cesar Luis Menotti is diagnosed with lung cancer.

 

Too much to ask for Fergie to kick the bucket I suppose....

 

or Steve McClaren. The man's certifiable. He has a naturally left footed player who's played some games at left back this season, but instead picks Phil Neville, whose last memorable contribution at the position was bringing down a Romanian in the 89th minute to knock England out of Euro 2000. He starts Wright-Phillips, whose only full 90 mins this season was against Wycombe. He isolates Crouch up front, tells Lampard he's playing left midfield which he ignores, then gives Barton a massive 10 minutes to prove his international pedigree.

 

Maybe he's copying Sven's old trick of trying to lose friendlies so everyone thinks they're rubbish. If so, mission accomplished last night.

 

Steve Mclaren should never have got the job, his last game as a club manager, a 4-1 UEFA Cup bending over and I didn't see Middlesborough in the top half of the table at the end of the season either if memory serves me correctly. Sorry Steve but it's a definite straight for you. He'll be gone as soon as England fail to qualify for Euro 2008. This thread could go all Graham Poll at this rate, two reds in one post!!!

 

Oh for the good old days of Sven.

 

I would suggest that we campaign to make the English football team as a whole eligible for the Deathlist but we've probably missed the boat by a good ten years. Still, there's always the cricket to look forward to...

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

Still, there's always the cricket to look forward to...

 

....coached by a man who, despite acknowledging captaincy makes him perform worse, insists that Flintoff remain captain for the finals.

[Banshees Scream 110]

I don't think so. We have a Football thread. Merge it.

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

Five of Ferguson's predecessors are still with us, as well:

Tommy Docherty (now 78)

Frank O'Farrell (79)

Dave Sexton (76)

Wilf McGuinness (69)

and the disgraced Ron Atkinson (67), currently the director of football at Kettering Town

 

So everyone who's managed the scally scum - ahem - I mean legendary club since Sir Matt still breathes eh? What has Frank O'Farrell been doing all day since the early seventies, can't recall him being over-burdened with high profile footy work. Well, he's spent a lot of time at that hotbed of football excellence.......Torquay!

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

If this thread is to stay on topic and be a discussion about old football managers who are ill/old then I suggest the following:

 

Malcolm Allison (drink & ill health)

Ron Saunders (just plain old)

Bobby Robson (everything under the sun)

Tommy Docherty (getting fatter and older)

Dave MacKay (not in best of health)

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

The 'football' thread is mainly a place to discuss progress of our teams, so I'm suggesting this one in the mould of the 'rugger buggers' and 'will ill kill phil hill' as a place to keep tabs on the obit worthy lingerers at the door of the departure loungue. You know, like Stan Bowles and Malcolm Allison. Obviously the high profile Sir Bobby Robson gets to keep his own thread, but Bobby Moncur and the rest probably belong here.

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

Speaking of Bob Moncur he talks about 'winning' his cancer battle on this all-action, highly entertaining internet footy programme. Bob's discussion is near the start, sparing you the rest of the turgid show.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,358]

Cancer setback for Tommy Burns.

[Godot 149]

I know it's not a first mention on the site but Paul Madeley is one to watch. He was great player in his time.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

Whilst debate goes on if a very famous Swiss centenarian has died, a less famous Swiss centenarian has definitely passed away -

 

Fernand Jaccard was 100 when he died - (link in foreign muck language though) & was, by my calculation***, only one of five survivors from the 1934 World Cup who were still alive in 2008.

 

 

***Note to those after DDP possibles - Nehin & Iraneta of Argentina are believed to be alive, Smellincx of Belgium is apparently alive but if he gets a UK obit, I'm going to change my name legally to "Monkey Face In a Tree Agadoo" & the most famous (as it were) of them all is Rene Llense, of France, who had a long & successful career in the French leagues. But he won't get a UK obit either, I don't think.***

 

 

Despite my dire warning notes above, it might be worth trawling through a few World Cup Final players of yore. There's a few on the DDP this year (Ghiggia of Uruguay, for example), but the great Brazillian team of the 1950's must be getting on a bit now.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Whilst debate goes on if a very famous Swiss centenarian has died, a less famous Swiss centenarian has definitely passed away -

 

Fernand Jaccard was 100 when he died - (link in foreign muck language though) & was, by my calculation***, only one of five survivors from the 1934 World Cup who were still alive in 2008.

 

 

***Note to those after DDP possibles - Nehin & Iraneta of Argentina are believed to be alive, Smellincx of Belgium is apparently alive but if he gets a UK obit, I'm going to change my name legally to "Monkey Face In a Tree Agadoo" & the most famous (as it were) of them all is Rene Llense, of France, who had a long & successful career in the French leagues. But he won't get a UK obit either, I don't think.***

 

 

Despite my dire warning notes above, it might be worth trawling through a few World Cup Final players of yore. There's a few on the DDP this year (Ghiggia of Uruguay, for example), but the great Brazillian team of the 1950's must be getting on a bit now.

 

Do you know anything about French player Joseph Alcazar or Franz Cisar from that final? I came across them by accident and couldn't find anything about their deaths.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

Do you know anything about French player Joseph Alcazar or Franz Cisar from that final? I came across them by accident and couldn't find anything about their deaths.

 

That Wiki entry on Alcazar is shamefully wrong.

 

Alcazar died, first of all, April 4, 1979. But where on earth the Oran, Algeria came from, I do not know. He was known as Joseph "Pepito" Alcazar & part of the reason for this was because he was born in Spain - La Union, nr. Cartagena, to be precise.

 

As for Cisar, all I have on him is the following "dead, death date unconfirmed". I suppose in the issues of fairness, you could leave that one open, but I have no knowledge that he is still alive.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Do you know anything about French player Joseph Alcazar or Franz Cisar from that final? I came across them by accident and couldn't find anything about their deaths.

 

That Wiki entry on Alcazar is shamefully wrong.

 

Alcazar died, first of all, April 4, 1979. But where on earth the Oran, Algeria came from, I do not know. He was known as Joseph "Pepito" Alcazar & part of the reason for this was because he was born in Spain - La Union, nr. Cartagena, to be precise.

 

As for Cisar, all I have on him is the following "dead, death date unconfirmed". I suppose in the issues of fairness, you could leave that one open, but I have no knowledge that he is still alive.

 

Doubt Cisar would get a proper obit even if he were alive anyhow.

 

In defense of Wikipedia, all three sources claim that he was born in Oran, although I can't speak to how professional those sources are.

 

Do you have a whole list of all the '34 players with their living status? Not that I want to steal it, just that you seem to be well organized on the topic.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

Do you have a whole list of all the '34 players with their living status? Not that I want to steal it, just that you seem to be well organized on the topic.

 

Not really.

 

What I did, nearly 10-15 years ago, was read an article about Francisco Varallo. As one does (well me, anyway) I wondered how many others are still alive from a World Cup or who has died from recent ones?

 

All I have is the line-ups of everybody, and in bold is who is still alive, and in normal font, who is dead or almost certainly deceased.

 

But with so many being relatively obscure, it's nowhere near as precise as the motor racing site I run.

 

Best resource for following up is the player history website - www.playerhistory.com which is a lot more reliable than the cut & paste shamefest that is weltfussbal, which is one of the links mentioned.

 

Some countries are quite easy to find, but others very difficult. I tend to have a good look at it every two years or so to see if there's any that slip the net.

 

But in summary, 1930 has only one left - Varallo

I think 1934 has those I mentioned above with a few more hmmmmmsss like Cisar

1938 has at least three definitely alive - another 10-12 possibles, if not more...

[Canadian Paul 97]

What I did, nearly 10-15 years ago, was read an article about Francisco Varallo. As one does (well me, anyway) I wondered how many others are still alive from a World Cup or who has died from recent ones?

 

You've gotten me into it too. I went through Wikipedia and composed a quick list of players who neither listed as deceased, nor could I find any evidence that they were deceased (eg. I found a source saying that the entire U.S. team is dead, so even though there's no DOD on a lot of their pages, they're all history). Since this discussion is surprisingly on the topic of the thread, I thought I'd share. I suspect even an obscure footy player would get attention if he were the last one from a World Cup Final, though Varallo is an inaccurate measure, since he's well-known outside of being the last from 1930. Also, as a caveat, being that I could only browse the names that people had bothered to add to Wikipedia, it's not a comprehensive list - in fact, of OoO's final five, only Llense had a Wikipedia page before yesterday (I gave Jaccard one last night).

 

So aside from the four mentioned by OoO and Cisar, we have:

 

Jaroslav Bouček

Franz Dienert

Jan van Diepenbeek

Géza Kalocsay

Ehrenfried Patzel

Einar Snitt

Pedro Solé

Josef Streb

 

I'm sure OoO could trim the list if he gets the time, but I don't have resources (ie. the Player History site) that he does. If all were alive (unlikely) that would bring the total to 13 survivors.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,358]

Former Rochdale and Oldham midfielder, Ernie Cooksey, 27, is suffering from malignant melanoma.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

You've gotten me into it too. I went through Wikipedia and composed a quick list of players who neither listed as deceased, nor could I find any evidence that they were deceased. I suspect even an obscure footy player would get attention if he were the last one from a World Cup Final, though Varallo is an inaccurate measure, since he's well-known outside of being the last from 1930. Also, as a caveat, being that I could only browse the names that people had bothered to add to Wikipedia, it's not a comprehensive list.

 

So aside from the four mentioned by OoO and Cisar, we have:

 

Jaroslav Bouček

Franz Dienert

Jan van Diepenbeek

Géza Kalocsay

Ehrenfried Patzel

Einar Snitt

Pedro Solé

Josef Streb

 

I'm sure OoO could trim the list if he gets the time, but I don't have resources (ie. the Player History site) that he does. If all were alive (unlikely) that would bring the total to 13 survivors.

 

Right, this is the first of a two part post - one focusing on this lot, the other a round-up of footballing possibilites, because there seem to be so many.

 

 

Firstly, CP, I must mention something from the above. The 5 I mentioned are/were players who actually played in the tournament. Most of those above were just squad members - that's not to say they're not worthy, but records of them are even less kept than the players & it is unlikely in the extreme that any of them will get obits.

 

Anyway...

Boucek d. 10 Oct 1987

Diepenbeek d. 8 Aug 1981

 

Sole & Patzel... all sources seem to agree that they are dead, but they just don't know when precisely. Snitt would be around 104-105 now if he is still alive, which I doubt.

 

Streb appears to be alive, but didn't play & that German side was pretty poor, so there won't be an obit.

 

As for Kalocsai, he only recently passed away - the link is in Hungarian, but he appears to have died on 29 July 2007.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,203]

Okay, here is my list (yes, yes I know Godot, I plead guilty to liking lists!) of footballers/football related people who are plain darn ill. There's enough here for a whole team on the DDP - in fact, probably two (though there's already one anyway).

 

 

Cancer

Bobby Moncur - 63, ex-Newcastle, Sunderland, Scotland - colon cancer - obit assured.

Gary Kelly - 41, ex-Oldham & Bury - cancer - obit possible, but not assured

Ernie Cooksey - 27, ex Oldham, Rochdale & Boston - skin cancer - obit probable

Sir Bobby Robson - 75, ex-England manager & player etc. etc - lung cancer - obit assured

Peter Jackson - 47, current Lincoln City manager - throat cancer - obit assured

Eddie Thompson - 68, Dundee United chairman - terminal bone cancer - obit assured

Tommy Burns - 51, ex Celtic & Scotland player, ex Celtic boss - skin cancer - obit assured

Alan Kelly - 71, ex Preston & Ireland - dad of Gary - cancer - obit most probable

Paul Canoville - 46 - ex Chelsea & Reading (first black player for Chelsea) - cancer twice - obit assured

 

Parkinsons/Alzheimers

Paul Madeley - 63 - ex Leeds & England - Parkinson's amongst many other ailments - obit assured

Ray Kennedy - 56 - ex Liverpool, Arsenal & England - long-time Parkinson's - obit assured

Peter Broadbent - 74, ex-England & Wolves - Alzheimers - obit assured

 

Other Illnesses - all obits assured bar Zajec, which is most probable cos of Pompey links

Malcolm Allison - 80, ex Man City boss - past alcoholism & respiratory problems (only has one lung)

Eddie Turnbull - 85, ex Hibs & Scotland - two strokes in past

Sammy Cox - 84, ex Rangers & Scotland - very fat & heart probs

John Neal - 76, ex Chelsea & Middlesbrough boss - heart problems

Khaliliou Fadiga - 33, ex Bolton & Senegal - major heart problems

Paul Gascoigne - 40, ex Newcastle, Spurs & England - loopy as a fruitcake, drinker, HIV??

Diego Maradona - 47 - ex Argentina - fat & drugs & loopy

Velimir Zajec - 52 - ex Yugoslavia player, ex-Pompey boss - believed to have motor neurone disease?? (Not 100% certain, but that's why I took a risk with him on the 2008 DDP)

Brookes Mileson - 60, ex-Chairman of Gretna - brain infection, cancer, serious stomach problems

 

Not Ill But Old - again, all obits assured

Gil Merrick - 86, ex Birmingham & England - remarried in 2008 so might be okay for now....

Francisco Varallo - 98, ex-Argentina, played in 1st World Cup final. Seems well for age.

Sir Tom Finney - 86, ex-Preston & England - one of greatest living footballers. Seems well.

Nat Lofthouse - 82, ex-Bolton & England - okay health, but has looked very frail in recent years

Phil Taylor - 90, ex Liverpool manager, England player - good health for age. Oldest ex-England player

Bert Williams - 88, ex-Wolves & England - appears well for age.

Ivor Broadis - 86, ex-Carlisle, Sunderland & England - okay for age, but noticeably frailer

Bill Foulkes 76 - ex Manchester Utd & England - looked incredibly frail at Munich 50th anniversary

 

 

 

I know there's others I've forgotten & others that could be added yet - certainly plenty to choose from...