Phil Collins (And Other Genesis Types)

[charon 4,943]

Sorry if the wrong thread but it is the nearest prog rock one I could find.......

 

Michael Dunsford age up for debate of Renaissance

http://www.vintagevinylnews.com/2012/11/michael-dunford-of-renaissance-passes.html

[grobler 35]

ahh...a good thread...totally irrelevent to the job in hand...but a good thread none the less...

Seconds Out is without doubt the best live Album ever recorded.

However....is there any reason to be linking Genesis members to an early demise ?

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

ahh...a good thread...totally irrelevent to the job in hand...but a good thread none the less...

Seconds Out is without doubt the best live Album ever recorded.

However....is there any reason to be linking Genesis members to an early demise ?

 

It mostly stemmed from a suicidally morbid interview Phil Collins gave in 2010. Here is a recap: http://www.guardian....e-spinal-injury

 

I loved Seconds Out and all the Gabriel stuff (Genesis and solo) when I was young but I have to confess I have gone right off them over the last two years. I don't like any Genesis-related albums now except for Gabriel's New Blood. It is the only Gabriel album you need, really. It is a very good summary of his career, minus the dated synths and ponderous drums. For the most part nowadays, though, I am more likely to listen to Jacques Brel than Peter Gabriel.

[maryportfuncity 10,645]

Phil Collins' current involvement in the Genesis reunion (albeit only to talk about their history) has allowed him to start revealing he's a recovering alcoholic and his drinking messed up his health to the point of fuelling his pancreatitis.

 

None of which is likely to kill him this month, but it does explain why he hasn't worn as well as the others in the band and does - sort of - put him on our long-term radar.

[Lard Bazaar 3,799]

Phil Collins' current involvement in the Genesis reunion (albeit only to talk about their history) has allowed him to start revealing he's a recovering alcoholic and his drinking messed up his health to the point of fuelling his pancreatitis.

 

None of which is likely to kill him this month, but it does explain why he hasn't worn as well as the others in the band and does - sort of - put him on our long-term radar.

 

He's been on my 'He's A Massive Twat' radar for some years.

[Phantom 2,533]

Phil Collins' current involvement in the Genesis reunion (albeit only to talk about their history) has allowed him to start revealing he's a recovering alcoholic and his drinking messed up his health to the point of fuelling his pancreatitis.

 

None of which is likely to kill him this month, but it does explain why he hasn't worn as well as the others in the band and does - sort of - put him on our long-term radar.

 

He's been on my 'He's A Massive Twat' radar for some years.

 

When he had just a small bald spot on the top of his head, it made a perfect target.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Well, judging by this article he is still in denial.

 

""I'm getting up and watching cricket, turning on the television at 11am and having a bottle of wine," he says.

"I was never an alcoholic; I just got to be doing that most days."

 

http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/phil-collins-reveals-extent-his-alcohol-struggles-6095948

 

 

He seems to be killing himself from lack of motivation and boredom - then again, Genesis' lack of motivation on some of their last few albums (We Can't Dance in particular) nearly killed us from boredom too so maybe it is just karma....

[Bibliogryphon 9,571]

Well, judging by this article he is still in denial.

 

""I'm getting up and watching cricket, turning on the television at 11am and having a bottle of wine," he says.

"I was never an alcoholic; I just got to be doing that most days."

 

http://tvnz.co.nz/en...ruggles-6095948

 

 

He seems to be killing himself from lack of motivation and boredom - then again, Genesis' lack of motivation on some of their last few albums (We Can't Dance in particular) nearly killed us from boredom too so maybe it is just karma....

 

In a small act of defence for Mr Collins if you think We Can't Dance is bad the Collinsless Calling All Stations is much worse.

[Spade_Cooley 9,515]

MAMA

 

HAHA

 

UHHH

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Well, judging by this article he is still in denial.

 

""I'm getting up and watching cricket, turning on the television at 11am and having a bottle of wine," he says.

"I was never an alcoholic; I just got to be doing that most days."

 

http://tvnz.co.nz/en...ruggles-6095948

 

 

He seems to be killing himself from lack of motivation and boredom - then again, Genesis' lack of motivation on some of their last few albums (We Can't Dance in particular) nearly killed us from boredom too so maybe it is just karma....

 

In a small act of defence for Mr Collins if you think We Can't Dance is bad the Collinsless Calling All Stations is much worse.

 

Yes, I know the album well. Yes, most of it is terrible but I like "One Man's Fool" so the album ends on a positive note. "Small Talk" is virtually unlistenable, "Alien Afternoon" would be okay-ish but for the fact that it is a rehash of "Keep it Dark" from 16 years earlier and "Dividing Line", "Uncertain Weather" and "There Must be Some Other Way" are Banks at his most bombastic and generic. Hard to believe the bloke wrote "Island in the Darkness" for his 'Strictly, Inc." solo album at around the same time. That was one of his finest hours and in direct contrast to this sludge. (If you haven't heard "Island in the Darkness" go and listen to it on YouTube RIGHT NOW and, as you do so, imagine it being included on Calling All Stations instead of whichever three songs from that album you despise the most. Here is the link:

)

 

I wouldn't mind hearing Phil cover something like "Shipwrecked" or "If That's What You Need" just to see if he could put some more life into those songs and it is the sort of commercial love ballad material that would appeal to him. I feel there is potential in them but it is buried deep. Of course, they could just turn out sappy in his hands... It is a pity he didn't try one of them during the "Live Over Europe" reunion album, just for something different.

 

Why, oh why, couldn't Banks and Rutherford have taken a leaf out of Gabriel's book and taken some risks and thrown in just a couple of avante-garde numbers? Even the otherwise uber-commercial Invisible Touch had the little synth experiment, "The Brazilian" to end on a strong note but that last vestige of experimentation had disappeared when the sludgy We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations were released.

[Bibliogryphon 9,571]

I quite like some of the stuff on Tony Banks' solo albums Bankstatement and Still where he uses a range of guest vocalists including Nik Kershaw and Fish. A lot of hit and miss but some really good tracks.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

I quite like some of the stuff on Tony Banks' solo albums Bankstatement and Still where he uses a range of guest vocalists including Nik Kershaw and Fish. A lot of hit and miss but some really good tracks.

I like Still but not Bankstatement. A Curious Feeling and Strictly, Inc. are probably his two best solo albums, though, IMHO. I used to be a big fan of Tony's as he was the person most responsible for som great Genesis songs from Firth of Fifth and most of the music on Wind and Wuthering through to some of the more interesting 1980s material like Me and Sarah Jane, Evidence of Autumn, Domino and The Brazilian. I have gone off him a lot though due to the cheesiness of some of his synth sounds and the morbidity of a lot of his lyrics (says I, a DeathLister!) especiallywhat he was composing on And Then There Were Three but even some of his more modern doom-'n'-gloom-fests too.

[Paul Bearer 6,101]

Genesis on the one show now. Phil Collins seems to be ageing not very well.

[Deathray 2,940]

I still think So is an awesome album. Very eighties yes but a brilliant album.

 

And so think I.

 

I think this whole thread is being a bit sniffy about the musical acheivements of both PG & PC. Being successful does not always mean that you have sold out.

 

I'm not particularly fond of Phil Collins' solo work and Genesis albums after Abacab, although good songs can be found on most.

 

My love for Genesis remains though. Just a few days after release I got ...And Then There Were Three..., the first LP record I ever bought¹. After that I've acquired almost all they've recorded. I regularly put Seconds Out on my stereo, preferably loud.

 

¹I did buy a few singles before and had already shoplifted Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols

 

regards,

Hein

 

I suppose anarchists can't really be pissed at you shoplifting their work.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

I suppose anarchists can't really be pissed at you shoplifting their work.

 

Dunno, I never asked. Then again:

 

 

regards,

Hein

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

"No Jacket Required" is better than "Selling England By The Pound", imho.

 

Not sure I would agree with you but I did suggest to a colleague that "No Jacket Required" was more enjoyable to listen to than "The White Album" and I have never heard the last of it!

My confession is that, when it comes to "the albums of 2002", I prefer Phil Collins' Testify to Peter Gabriel's Up.

 

I am sure Up has more artitic merit but I can't get any further than " My Head Sounds Like That" in one sitting. Too morbid, too ponderous, too unremittingly intense. For all its cheese, banal lyrics and commercialism, you can at listen to Phil's stuff, especially with the big, melodic chord changes on songs like "This Love, This Heart"

[Guest Patrick]

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument.  In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism.  Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as, uh, anything I've heard in rock.  Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist.

[themaninblack 2,112]

One of Rock's odd happenstances is that Collins' drum work on Peter Gabriel's 3rd LP influenced PIL...

[Deathray 2,940]

One of Rock's odd happenstances is that Collins' drum work on Peter Gabriel's 3rd LP influenced PIL...

 

Collin's was always a better drummer than he is a singer.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

One of Rock's odd happenstances is that Collins' drum work on Peter Gabriel's 3rd LP influenced PIL...

Collin's was always a better drummer than he is a singer.

 

That's true for most drummers.

 

regards,

Hein

[Bibliogryphon 9,571]

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as, uh, anything I've heard in rock. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist.

 

Did someone do their degree in Irony?

[Bibliogryphon 9,571]

I quite like some of the stuff on Tony Banks' solo albums Bankstatement and Still where he uses a range of guest vocalists including Nik Kershaw and Fish. A lot of hit and miss but some really good tracks.

I like Still but not Bankstatement. A Curious Feeling and Strictly, Inc. are probably his two best solo albums, though, IMHO. I used to be a big fan of Tony's as he was the person most responsible for som great Genesis songs from Firth of Fifth and most of the music on Wind and Wuthering through to some of the more interesting 1980s material like Me and Sarah Jane, Evidence of Autumn, Domino and The Brazilian. I have gone off him a lot though due to the cheesiness of some of his synth sounds and the morbidity of a lot of his lyrics (says I, a DeathLister!) especiallywhat he was composing on And Then There Were Three but even some of his more modern doom-'n'-gloom-fests too.

 

I think that Tony's biggest problem is that a lot of what you refer to as doom n gloom fests effectively come across as a little whingy. He was born into privilege and has been successful from quite an early age. So what comes across is middle class angst rather than an expression of the futility of existence. I still think he is a very clever writer and some of the early Genesis mythological tracks owe him an awful lot.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as, uh, anything I've heard in rock. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist.

 

Did someone do their degree in Irony?

It is from American Psycho. The more commercialised Genesis becomes, the more the serial killer likes them.

[Bibliogryphon 9,571]

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as, uh, anything I've heard in rock. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist.

 

Did someone do their degree in Irony?

It is from American Psycho. The more commercialised Genesis becomes, the more the serial killer likes them.

 

That makes way more sense now.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

I quite like some of the stuff on Tony Banks' solo albums Bankstatement and Still where he uses a range of guest vocalists including Nik Kershaw and Fish. A lot of hit and miss but some really good tracks.

I like Still but not Bankstatement. A Curious Feeling and Strictly, Inc. are probably his two best solo albums, though, IMHO. I used to be a big fan of Tony's as he was the person most responsible for som great Genesis songs from Firth of Fifth and most of the music on Wind and Wuthering through to some of the more interesting 1980s material like Me and Sarah Jane, Evidence of Autumn, Domino and The Brazilian. I have gone off him a lot though due to the cheesiness of some of his synth sounds and the morbidity of a lot of his lyrics (says I, a DeathLister!) especiallywhat he was composing on And Then There Were Three but even some of his more modern doom-'n'-gloom-fests too.

 

I think that Tony's biggest problem is that a lot of what you refer to as doom n gloom fests effectively come across as a little whingy. He was born into privilege and has been successful from quite an early age. So what comes across is middle class angst rather than an expression of the futility of existence. I still think he is a very clever writer and some of the early Genesis mythological tracks owe him an awful lot.

yes, maybe that is another way of looking at it. I don't think he's that great a lyricist, anyway. Occassionally, he will come out with a good line like "If races always ran to form, they never would be run" in A Curious Feeling but those moments are fairly far inbetween. Come to think of it, after Peter and Steve left, the band didn't really have any good lyricists at all. Phil was able to write those "confessional love letter" songs to his ex-wives that apparently touched many people but when he tried to move beyond that into social criticism or other subjects he just didn't have the skill (I don't blame him too much since he had a limited education through acting school and apparently didn't read for all the years he was on the road) but Mike and Tony went to one of England's top elite schools and they still come out with banal drivel... Sigh...

 

Yes Tony was probably striving to be existenitalist but just came across as a morbid old whinger.