Aristocrats

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

1 minute ago, YoungWillz said:

Earl of Sandwich retires from the Lords: https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2024-05-20/debates/1B5B5F7C-CE80-47C2-B6FA-D842E9C4ADB2/RetirementOfAMemberTheEarlOfSandwich

No longer has the appetite for it I guess

[YoungWillz 21,033]

Charles Allsopp, 6th Baron Hindlip, former member of the Lords and auctioneer with Christies, Times Obit: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/obituaries/article/lord-hindlip-allsopp-obituary-death-k7dlgpftv

 

Kirstie Allsopp's dad.

[Gisooo 3,314]

On 09/09/2023 at 17:49, YoungWillz said:

Scotland:

 

Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar (b. 1940)

Ian Maitland, 18th Earl of Lauderdale (b. 1937)

Andrew Bruce, 11th Earl of Elgin and 15th Earl of Kincardine (b. 1924)

Patrick Carnegy, 15th Earl of Northesk (b. 1940)

Filippo Rospigliosi, 11th Prince Rospigliosi and 12th Earl of Newburgh (b. 1942) - No Individual Wiki Page

Patrick Hope-Johnstone, 11th Earl of Annandale and Hartfell (b. 1941)

Peter St John, 9th Earl of Orkney (b. 1938)

Ian Ogilvie-Grant, 13th Earl of Seafield (b. 1939)

Neil Primrose, 7th Earl of Rosebery and 3rd Earl of Midlothian (b. 1929)

Patrick Boyle, 10th Earl of Glasgow (b. 1939)

 

Neil Primrose, 7th Earl of Rosebery and 3rd Earl of Midlothian (Wiki) dead at 95

[YoungWillz 21,033]

1 hour ago, Gisooo said:

 

Neil Primrose, 7th Earl of Rosebery and 3rd Earl of Midlothian (Wiki) dead at 95

Wiki is not a source.

 

Had a look, here's a readable one: https://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/marketplace/advert/rosebery-notices_57876

[Gisooo 3,314]

6 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Wiki is not a source.

 

Had a look, here's a readable one: https://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/marketplace/advert/rosebery-notices_57876

 

arrrr, sorry, I saw the source you posted and I thought that I had launched the telegraph link, I must have done it in a hurry

[YoungWillz 21,033]

1 minute ago, Gisooo said:

 

arrrr, sorry, I saw the source you posted and I thought that I had launched the telegraph link, I must have done it in a hurry

That's ok, thanks for drawing it to the Forum's attention and allowing me to update the list. 

 

Nobody picked him for the DDP afaik anyway. 

[Ulitzer95 12,584]

Lord Jim Dudley (wiki) dead at 93.

Death notice at Worcester News.

Despite his advanced age, he never sat in the Lords. His mother, Baroness Barbara Dudley (1907–2002) did though. Now succeeded by his son, Jeremy Dudley (born 1964).

[Ulitzer95 12,584]

All House of Lords hereditary by-elections cancelled until January 2026. 

Presumably because they're about to re-evaluate their place in the chamber and bring in new legislation.

[Ulitzer95 12,584]

I think this is a Telegraph death notice for Lord Colwyn (wiki), Tory member of the House of Lords from 1967 to 2022.

[YoungWillz 21,033]

Death notice for Sir Alistair Simon Orr-Ewing, 2nd Baronet aged 84: https://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/marketplace/advert/orr-ewing-notices_58373

 

Heir apparent is his son Archie (b. 1969)

[time 8,596]

On 08/08/2024 at 17:04, Ulitzer95 said:

I think this is a Telegraph death notice for Lord Colwyn (wiki), Tory member of the House of Lords from 1967 to 2022.

This definitely is.

[Gisooo 3,314]

On 28/06/2023 at 13:04, YoungWillz said:

 

Ogilvy, 13th Earl of Airlie reportedly hasn't made it through 2023: 

DDP pick I'm sure.

 

Now his wife Virginia Ogilvy, Countess of Airlie (Wiki) dead at 91

 

[YoungWillz 21,033]

Updating the list of Dukes, Marquesses and Earls who have reached or will reach 80 or over by or in 2025 (again, Wiki is my friend, any errors are theirs):

 

Dukes:

 

Peregrine Cavendish, 12th Duke of Devonshire (b.1944)

James Graham, 8th Duke of Montrose (b. 1935)

James Hamilton, 5th Duke of Abercorn (b. 1934)

Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester (b. 1944)

Prince Edward, 2nd Duke of Kent (b. 1935)

Murray de Vere Beauclerk, 14th Duke of St Albans (b. 1939)

Francis Egerton, 7th Duke of Sutherland (b. 1940)

 

Marquesses:

 

Granville Gordon, 13th Marquess of Huntly (b. 1944)

David Douglas, 12th Marquess of Queensberry (b. 1929)

Michael Ancram, 13th Marquess of Lothian (b. 1945; d. 2024)

Charles Petty-Fitzmaurice, 9th Marquess of Lansdowne (b. 1941)

Charles Townshend, 8th Marquess Townshend (b. 1945)

John Tottenham, 9th Marquess of Ely (b.1943)

Michael Cecil, 8th Marquess of Exeter (b. 1935)

David Pratt, 6th Marquess Camden (b. 1930)

Mark Dundas, 4th Marquess of Zetland (b. 1937)

Simon Isaacs, 4th Marquess of Reading (b. 1942)

 

Earls:

 

England:

 

Richard Bertie, 14th Earl of Lindsey and 9th Earl of Abingdon (b. 1931)

John Montagu, 11th Earl of Sandwich (b. 1943)

Paul Capell, 11th Earl of Essex (b. 1944)

George Coventry, 13th Earl of Coventry (b. 1939)

 

Scotland:

 

Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar (b. 1940)

Ian Maitland, 18th Earl of Lauderdale (b. 1937)

Andrew Bruce, 11th Earl of Elgin and 15th Earl of Kincardine (b. 1924)

Patrick Carnegy, 15th Earl of Northesk (b. 1940)

Filippo Rospigliosi, 11th Prince Rospigliosi and 12th Earl of Newburgh (b. 1942) - No Individual Wiki Page

Patrick Hope-Johnstone, 11th Earl of Annandale and Hartfell (b. 1941)

Peter St John, 9th Earl of Orkney (b. 1938)

Ian Ogilvie-Grant, 13th Earl of Seafield (b. 1939)

Patrick Boyle, 10th Earl of Glasgow (b. 1939)

 

Great Britain:

 

Richard Parker, 9th Earl of Macclesfield (b. 1943) - No individual Wiki Page

James Waldegrave, 13th Earl Waldegrave (b. 1940)

Charles Stanhope, 12th Earl of Harrington (b. 1945)

George Hobart-Hampden, 10th Earl of Buckinghamshire (b.1944)

Robin Fox-Strangways, 10th Earl of Ilchester (b. 1942) - No Individual Wiki Page

 

Ireland:

 

John Boyle, 15th Earl of Cork and 15th Earl of Orrery (b. 1945)

William Anthony Nugent, 13th Earl of Westmeath (b. 1928)

John Brabazon, 15th Earl of Meath (b. 1941) - No Individual Wiki Page

Roger Lambart, 13th Earl of Cavan (b. 1944) - No Individual Wiki Page

Derry Moore, 12th Earl of Drogheda (b. 1937)

Myles Ponsonby, 12th Earl of Bessborough (b. 1941)

Arthur Gore, 9th Earl of Arran (b. 1938)

John Savile, 8th Earl of Mexborough (b. 1931) - No individual Wiki Page

David Turnour, 8th Earl Winterton (b. 1943) - No individual Wiki Page

Robert Jocelyn, 10th Earl of Roden (b. 1938) - No individual Wiki Page

David Vaughan, 9th Earl of Lisburne (b. 1945)

Thomas Pakenham, 8th Earl of Longford (b. 1933)

George Dawson-Damer, 7th Earl of Portarlington (b. 1938; d. 2024) - No individual Wiki Page

Michael Annesley, 12th Earl of Annesley (b. 1933) - No individual Wiki Page

Andrew Cole, 7th Earl of Enniskillen (b. 1942) - No Individual Wiki Page

Richard Hely-Hutchinson, 8th Earl of Donoughmore (b. 1927)

Charles Acheson, 7th Earl of Gosford (b. 1942) - No Individual Wiki Page

Brendan Parsons, 7th Earl of Rosse (b. 1936)

Sir Richard Needham, 6th Earl of Kilmorey (b. 1942)

 

United Kingdom:

 

John Pelham, 9th Earl of Chichester (b. 1944)

Francis Grosvenor, 8th Earl of Wilton (b. 1934)

Philip Grey, 7th Earl Grey (b. 1940; d. 2023)

Keith Rous, 6th Earl of Stradbroke (b. 1937) - No individual Wiki Page

Simon Cairns, 6th Earl Cairns (b. 1939)

Gathorne Gathorne-Hardy, 5th Earl Cranbrook (b. 1933)

Edward Foljambe, 5th Earl of Liverpool (b. 1944)

Peter Mackay, 4th Earl of Inchcape (b. 1943)

Peter Wood, 3rd Earl of Halifax (b. 1944)

Shane Alexander, 2nd Earl Alexander of Tunis (b. 1935)

Alexander MacMillan, 2nd Earl of Stockton (b. 1943)

[Toast 16,131]

Since you've put the numbers in ..... I think Prince Richard is 2nd Duke of Gloucester. His father was 1st of the current creation.

[YoungWillz 21,033]

10 minutes ago, Toast said:

Since you've put the numbers in ..... I think Prince Richard is 2nd Duke of Gloucester. His father was 1st of the current creation.

No idea, perhaps a Royal Dukedom?

 

Anyhow, I've used the styles from Wiki. I mean, Prince Edward is styled Duke of Edinburgh.

 

Ulitzer probably best to confirm?

 

Edit: I may even be wrong with the Duke of Kent for example. Bloody toffs! 

[Toast 16,131]

Kent is also a Royal Dukedom, so if he gets a number, so should Gloucester.

The Duke of Kent is also Prince Edward. He's the late Queen's cousin.  Prince Edward Duke of Edinburgh is her son. Two different people.

Edinburgh is a Royal Dukedom, but not hereditary.

[YoungWillz 21,033]

2 minutes ago, Toast said:

Kent is also a Royal Dukedom, so if he gets a number, so should Gloucester.

The Duke of Kent is also Prince Edward. He's the late Queen's cousin.  Prince Edward Duke of Edinburgh is her son. Two different people.

Edinburgh is a Royal Dukedom, but not hereditary.

Acht, maybe Kent and Gloucester will both peg it and save the hassle. 

[Toast 16,131]

31 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Acht, maybe Kent and Gloucester will both peg it and save the hassle. 

 

When they do, those dukedoms cease to become Royal Dukedoms.  Their eldest sons will become Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent respectively, but as great-grandchildren of a monarch they aren't entitled to be Princes or HRH.  The dukedoms continue, but not as royal.  At this stage the relationship to the monarch has become too distant.

 

This is why it was decided to make Edinburgh a life peerage. Otherwise, Edward's son James (he is a Prince but doesn't use the title) would have inherited it as a Royal Dukedom, but when his son (if he has one) inherited it would no longer be Royal.   They wanted to keep it in the family as a tribute to Prince Philip, so it is now a life peerage in the gift of the monarch and will revert to the Crown when Edward dies.  A bit like the Princess Royal title, although that is limited to the monarch's eldest daughter.

[Comped 526]

22 minutes ago, Toast said:

This is why it was decided to make Edinburgh a life peerage. Otherwise, Edward's son James (he is a Prince but doesn't use the title) would have inherited it as a Royal Dukedom, but when his son (if he has one) inherited it would no longer be Royal.   They wanted to keep it in the family as a tribute to Prince Philip, so it is now a life peerage in the gift of the monarch and will revert to the Crown when Edward dies.  A bit like the Princess Royal title, although that is limited to the monarch's eldest daughter.

Hasn't the rumor been that it was made non-hereditary specifically for Charlotte? That's what I heard anyway. The non-Royal issue could be fixed with letters patent, if Charles wanted to actually have that done. Frankly the family is already struggling as it is with the number of active senior members - Andrew's kids would likely be much more heavily involved in it wasn't for their father's potential crimes and PR issues, so I don't see why Edward's kids aren't being used in a similar capacity even if they've kept a much lower profile. All of this is entirely a situation of the king's own making, really, beyond the Harry issue which is an entirety different topic. But that's just my opinion.

[Toast 16,131]

56 minutes ago, Comped said:

Hasn't the rumor been that it was made non-hereditary specifically for Charlotte? That's what I heard anyway. The non-Royal issue could be fixed with letters patent, if Charles wanted to actually have that done. Frankly the family is already struggling as it is with the number of active senior members - Andrew's kids would likely be much more heavily involved in it wasn't for their father's potential crimes and PR issues, so I don't see why Edward's kids aren't being used in a similar capacity even if they've kept a much lower profile. All of this is entirely a situation of the king's own making, really, beyond the Harry issue which is an entirety different topic. But that's just my opinion.

 

IIRR the Charlotte rumour started when Edward wasn't immediately given the Edinburgh title.  People were saying that Charles didn't want him to have it, but it later became clear that the delay was due to discussions about the hereditary status.  Then the King waited until Edward's birthday to announce it.

 

Yes, I suppose they could fix it for a Royal dukedom to remain royal into the third generation, but that's missing the point. They are reserved for close family members, which is why the rule was made.

 

I agree about James and Louise, but they are still in education and may play a working role later.  I think Louise might step up, not so sure about James as he seems quite shy.  I could be wrong though.

I don't think it's fair to blame the King, it's hardly his fault that senior Royals have died or become infirm!  Unlike his mother, he doesn't have a lot of cousins to share the load.  There's only Princess Margaret's two, and they have never done royal duties.  And Andrew's misfortunes aren't down to the King.  I do think Beatrice and her husband would be good to add to the working royal team.  Not so much Eugenie if they still live mainly in Portugal - not sure if that's still the case.

[ladyfiona 2,577]

I know little about James, but do know that Louise likes to work as according to my mum's friend. She has worked on the royal estate at Savill Garden cafe during summer holidays between studies. I think she's also inherited Prince Philips truck.

[Comped 526]

On 14/09/2024 at 10:50, Toast said:

 I do think Beatrice and her husband would be good to add to the working royal team.  Not so much Eugenie if they still live mainly in Portugal - not sure if that's still the case.

B&E have, if the tabloids are right, tried to move into being working royals (or at least their team has discussed it)... But Charles, due to Andrew, has been resistant. Which is believable.

[YoungWillz 21,033]

Malcolm Mitchell-Thomson, 3rd Baron Selsdon reportedly dead: https://members.parliament.uk/member/2127/career

[dimreaper 697]

First possible confirmation that Norton Knatchbull has been suffering from alzheimer's since at least 2014. I've heard rumors of this over the past few years, but this is the first time i've ever seen a publication report it. Hasn't been spotted in public since his mother's funeral in 2017.

 

https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022-11-15/lady-penny-the-special-friend-of-queen-elizabeth-iis-husband.html

[Toast 16,131]

I thought it had been common knowledge for some time.  The article is nearly two years old.