Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[Spade_Cooley 9,537]

The thing is, and I've not seen this really written about anywhere, is that if our politics becomes ever more left/right split, in a two-party system that ironically gives a lot of power to third-party centrists because they become kingmakers in a hung parliament. Especially if Labour refuse to offer a second referendum in Scotland, effectively ruling out any power-share with the SNP. The Tiggers could only take 20 seats at an election and that'd still be enough to make them the prettiest girl to ask out for prom. If I was a betting man, Chuckie U to be deputy PM after the next election would be a lock.

[the_engineer 1,415]

23 minutes ago, Spade_Cooley said:

The thing is, and I've not seen this really written about anywhere, is that if our politics becomes ever more left/right split, in a two-party system that ironically gives a lot of power to third-party centrists because they become kingmakers in a hung parliament. Especially if Labour refuse to offer a second referendum in Scotland, effectively ruling out any power-share with the SNP. The Tiggers could only take 20 seats at an election and that'd still be enough to make them the prettiest girl to ask out for prom. If I was a betting man, Chuckie U to be deputy PM after the next election would be a lock.

 

Hideo kojima predicted the left right polarisation,fake news and political echo chambers 18/19 years ago in metal gear solid 2. Its actually disturbing how accurate he is.

 

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

1 hour ago, Spade_Cooley said:

The thing is, and I've not seen this really written about anywhere, is that if our politics becomes ever more left/right split, in a two-party system that ironically gives a lot of power to third-party centrists because they become kingmakers in a hung parliament. Especially if Labour refuse to offer a second referendum in Scotland, effectively ruling out any power-share with the SNP. The Tiggers could only take 20 seats at an election and that'd still be enough to make them the prettiest girl to ask out for prom. If I was a betting man, Chuckie U to be deputy PM after the next election would be a lock.

I would have had more respect for them if they had fully defected to the Lib Dems and said this was about Brexit but it isn't it is about Chuckie U's ego. He had his chance to be leader and bottled it.

[YoungWillz 21,058]

Oh, Labour have ruled out a second Scottish Indy Ref. Yorkshireman Richard Leonard, Corbyn's placeman, has quite clearly said so. Corbyn has been a little more careful with his words, but it is also quite clear he'll do a "Thatcher in opposition" and deny Scots a say once in power - after all, who would want to be independent once you have a beneficent Labour Party in power? (This is heavy sarcasm, in case you don't get it).

 

Labour's woes in Middle England don't bother me much. The disaster they were in Scotland has been their downfall here - the party of hospital closures, paid for prescriptions, introduction of tuition fees, retaining nuclear weapons on the Clyde, I could go on. That was of course when they were Red Tories - something to which Chuka and his cronies still adhere.

 

Like the Tories getting back into power (albeit in coalition, then with small majority, then in minority), a generation forget just how bad these two parties are for ordinary people. 

 

Here's the latest. Amber Rudd has just dipped into workers' pockets for a compulsory rise in pension contributions. You think that's to ensure people have a decent pension when they retire? Not a bit of it. It's to prop up the insurance businesses of their cronies and nothing is in place to stop these companies going bankrupt before you get a sniff of your pension (assuming you don't die before you ever collect it).

 

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

2 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Oh, Labour have ruled out a second Scottish Indy Ref. Yorkshireman Richard Leonard, Corbyn's placeman, has quite clearly said so. Corbyn has been a little more careful with his words, but it is also quite clear he'll do a "Thatcher in opposition" and deny Scots a say once in power - after all, who would want to be independent once you have a beneficent Labour Party in power? (This is heavy sarcasm, in case you don't get it).

 

Labour's woes in Middle England don't bother me much. The disaster they were in Scotland has been their downfall here - the party of hospital closures, paid for prescriptions, introduction of tuition fees, retaining nuclear weapons on the Clyde, I could go on. That was of course when they were Red Tories - something to which Chuka and his cronies still adhere.

 

Like the Tories getting back into power (albeit in coalition, then with small majority, then in minority), a generation forget just how bad these two parties are for ordinary people. 

 

Here's the latest. Amber Rudd has just dipped into workers' pockets for a compulsory rise in pension contributions. You think that's to ensure people have a decent pension when they retire? Not a bit of it. It's to prop up the insurance businesses of their cronies and nothing is in place to stop these companies going bankrupt before you get a sniff of your pension (assuming you don't die before you ever collect it).

 

 

I will (technically) become a pensioner this year.

[Deathray 2,940]

4 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Oh, Labour have ruled out a second Scottish Indy Ref. Yorkshireman Richard Leonard, Corbyn's placeman, has quite clearly said so. Corbyn has been a little more careful with his words, but it is also quite clear he'll do a "Thatcher in opposition" and deny Scots a say once in power - after all, who would want to be independent once you have a beneficent Labour Party in power? (This is heavy sarcasm, in case you don't get it).

 

Labour's woes in Middle England don't bother me much. The disaster they were in Scotland has been their downfall here - the party of hospital closures, paid for prescriptions, introduction of tuition fees, retaining nuclear weapons on the Clyde, I could go on. That was of course when they were Red Tories - something to which Chuka and his cronies still adhere.

 

Like the Tories getting back into power (albeit in coalition, then with small majority, then in minority), a generation forget just how bad these two parties are for ordinary people. 

 

Here's the latest. Amber Rudd has just dipped into workers' pockets for a compulsory rise in pension contributions. You think that's to ensure people have a decent pension when they retire? Not a bit of it. It's to prop up the insurance businesses of their cronies and nothing is in place to stop these companies going bankrupt before you get a sniff of your pension (assuming you don't die before you ever collect it).

 

 

 

The rise in pension contributions under the workplace pension is not compulsory, you can opt out of it. 

[charon 4,943]

Which I have Deathers.

To me, it is a back door NI rise, one that they would get booted out of Office for, hence a makey-upy 'new' pension.

Bunch o' cunts.

[YoungWillz 21,058]

18 minutes ago, Deathray said:

 

The rise in pension contributions under the workplace pension is not compulsory, you can opt out of it. 

Opt out of the rise or opt out of the pension scheme?

 

I had understood if you wanted to be part of the pension scheme, you had to pay the increase. Hence its element of compulsion.

[charon 4,943]

Yip. Can't opt out once your soul has signed.

Workplace contributions have gone up heftily to match, which pisses me off.

I'm not in the cunting thing and saving my employers a wedge by not being so, fuckers shid bump my wages up :lol:

[Deathray 2,940]

2 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Opt out of the rise or opt out of the pension scheme?

 

I had understood if you wanted to be part of the pension scheme, you had to pay the increase. Hence its element of compulsion.

 

1 hour ago, charon said:

Yip. Can't opt out once your soul has signed.

Workplace contributions have gone up heftily to match, which pisses me off.

I'm not in the cunting thing and saving my employers a wedge by not being so, fuckers shid bump my wages up

 

You can opt out of contributing whenever you want by contacting the pension provider yourself. They may require notice.

[paddyfool 379]

Now this little independent centrist group grows by three (ex)Tory MPs: https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/QbReq

 

How much of this is a reaction to Brexit, and how much a reaction to the increase left vs right polarisation of the two main parties, though?

[Deathray 2,940]

14 minutes ago, paddyfool said:

Now this little independent centrist group grows by three (ex)Tory MPs: https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/QbReq

 

How much of this is a reaction to Brexit, and how much a reaction to the increase left vs right polarisation of the two main parties, though?

 

I think it would have happened without Brexit eventually but Brexit has only increased the speed of the process. 

 

Ever since the Lib Dem suicide there's been nowhere for members of parliament from the centre to go, the Tories are hard right now and Labour are actually socialist. Given that in the 1990s and 2000s both parties appeared to lurch far more to the centre there's dozens of MPs in both parties who are now seeing their parties move away from their comfort zone, the broad church is not quite so broad anymore on either side of the house. I really wouldn't be surprised if 11 MPs is the tip of the iceberg here. 

 

I still support Corbyn, but good luck to this group - removing the Blairite element from the Labour party has been long overdue so I'm happy for them to do it themselves. 

 

Sadly as we have FPTP it's going to be far harder for this to work than it might in a European country, they could achieve a high share of the vote and very few seats. I really think introducing PR should be the next move parliament makes after Brexit to end this nonsense and allow us to have an actual socialist party, a Blairite party and an actual Tory party and maybe even some of the other factions within that rather than this cyclical polarisation and break up then regrouping to the centre when the other parties realise that's actually fairly popular.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

54 minutes ago, paddyfool said:

Now this little independent centrist group grows by three (ex)Tory MPs: https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/QbReq

 

How much of this is a reaction to Brexit, and how much a reaction to the increase left vs right polarisation of the two main parties, though?

 

This is not quite enough to remove Theresa May's working majority and on most issues these three will vote with the Government anyway. If there were another 5 or 6 then that would impact the ability to govern and push towards a General Election.

 

I am cynically thinking this is an attempt to destroy Corbyn rather than form a genuine political movement.

 

 

[Deathray 2,940]

16 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

 

This is not quite enough to remove Theresa May's working majority and on most issues these three will vote with the Government anyway. If there were another 5 or 6 then that would impact the ability to govern and push towards a General Election.

  

I am cynically thinking this is an attempt to destroy Corbyn rather than form a genuine political movement.

  

 

 

It's an attempt to destroy both main parties current leaderships from a coalition of people who no longer recognise their parties.

 

Corbyn is just mathematically easier to oust than May.

[YoungWillz 21,058]

Anyone watching proceedings over the past couple of years in the House could have named those three Tories as the ones to go.

 

Meantime, let's remind ourselves of Anna Soubry's interview on Election Night 2017, when she came within a bawhair of defeat:

 

 

[TQR 14,400]

No fucking change there, then.

 

[Sir Creep 7,070]

Bawhair?

 

* puts in his quiver * ....

[TQR 14,400]

Oh dear, it’s yet another song!

 

 

[YoungWillz 21,058]

The wonderful thing about Tiggers is..... they go down the Electoral Commission to form a political party.

 

At the next General Election, will they gain an electoral bounce?

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

5 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

The wonderful thing about Tiggers is..... they go down the Electoral Commission to form a political party.

 

At the next General Election, will they gain an electoral bounce?

Their best bet is a by-election in a remain constituency.

[Great Uncle Bulgaria 1,287]

55 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

  22 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

The wonderful thing about Tiggers is..... they go down the Electoral Commission to form a political party.

 

At the next General Election, will they gain an electoral bounce?

No chance, not with first past the post. Nearly 40 years ago a small group of Labour MPs (3 of whom were then household names (former Foreign Secretary, Chancellor and Shirley Williams  - who had held various posts in cabinet - unlike this group only 2 of whom anyone has heard of and that only dimly) set up a new party (SDP), merged with the liberals, ran at 25-30% in the polls for a while and still ended up with (IIRC) only about 25 seats having come respectable 2nds in constituencies everywhere. The SDP/Liberal Alliance was effectively killed off by the Falklands war, which was electorally the most popular thing Thatcher ever did and enabled her to win both the 1983 and 1987 elections.

If this little lot stand as their own party they will all be wiped out by their own (former) parties , even if they reach an accommodation with the Liberals. Few if any of them have sufficient charisma - or the resources -  to beat their own former party machines, who will make defeating the 'splitters' a strategic priority.

[Joey Russ 7,228]

Guess who might be running for the senate again? Yep, that’s right, Roy Moore. Such a massive twat...

[charon 4,943]

I'll just leave this here....

 

 

[Deathray 2,940]

On 27/03/2019 at 01:12, charon said:

I'll just leave this here....

 

 

 

Unfortunately for Mike Lee and other republicans barking up this tree, the Green New Deal does not aim to end air travel. It merely suggests investing in high-speed rail. 

[charon 4,943]

Oh it wasn't about his politics, it was about the delivery.