Who Do You Consider "famous For Being Ill"?

[msc 17,762]

Right, this tedious argument breaks out in the various deadpool threads about once a fortnight, and it never goes anywhere because it's usually people arguing over the tops of each other. So, YOU, yes, you, what do you consider "famous for being ill"? We already know that some folk consider champions in sports like rugby or darts or the like that, whereas others can argue for obscure rugby players in New Zealand being "heard of".

 

You may use folk on the DDP as reference points, but please do not use DDP players as reference points. Let's see if we can reach a point of consensus without resort to name calling, smugness or super defensiveness, etc.

 

 

I'll start by stating that for me, fame is measured in promoted achievements. So actors, writers, performers, broadcasters, sports people, politicians all qualify easily there. Terrorists and murderers, sadly, are fairly notorious, so count.

 

Famous for being ill is your cancer bloggers, and inspirational "last Christmasers" or those who want dosh to go traveling when they're at Oxford...

 

Family members of more famous family members are reliant on the person: Angelil, Nolan and the Jacksons clearly all have some relative fame, Tracy McGiffin obscure and better known to long term watchers of some rubbish daytime show ("Oh my sister did this and that and the next thing..."), whereas few would have heard of Celine Dion's brother if not for his illness/death.

 

Where I think I differ from some others is the belief that folk can move from being FFBI into being famous and ill, if the illness takes long enough and they become known for other stuff alongside being ill. To this category I put Dr Kate (OBE), Tomlinson and John's Diamond and Wilson from a while ago. My barometer for this is quite simple: if my old gran brings them up (before they die!), unaided, in conversation, they've clearly transcended into some level of national fame. (The only QO obit she sees is the Six O'Clock News...)

 

 

My gut feeling is that everyone on here has picked, at some point, someone who others would consider "famous for being ill", so, yeah, let the debate commence. Or not.

 

 

 

[Sean 5,997]

The question is would they obit. if their illness was a secret and not public knowledge.

[drol 10,053]

The question is would they obit. if their illness was a secret and not public knowledge.

Not only that. Tracy McGiffin would have obited even if she was not ill, but she was not famous on their own. I divide this picks into two categories:

 

1)Only famous for being ill and dying (Suisala, Magill, Aspin, Sims, many others)

2)Fringes of Fame (McGiffin, for example)

[charon 4,938]

Had this argument on p&b msc, re the Ebola nurse Cafferkey (sp).

 

I'd heard an interview on RS with her 'before' she went.

 

In my opinion she had a modicum of fame first, for putting herself in the firing line. And not for being shot, although that ramped up her profile.

[Handrejka 1,840]

I think if you can describe the person to non Deadpool player without their illness or advanced age being one of the first things you mention about them then they are more than likely legitimately famous.

If we take those in the obituary vault then Hannah Lyson is definitely a famous for being ill type as she can only really be described as "young woman with cancer", Mark Sims is also a ffbi type as although becoming a Dr is an achievement it's not a reason in itself for being in the public eye.

McGiffen is borderline as she could be described as Carol McGiffin's sister without any reason to mention cancer.

Feek and Angelil just about pass the famousness test.

 

It's the same with really old people. Emma Morano can only be described as a supercentenarian without anything else qualifying that, the late Zhou Youguang would be described first as a linguist, then as a supercentenarian.

Famous for being old people don't seem to cause the same amount of controversy for some reason.

[Joey Russ 7,119]

I do consider world's oldest people FFBI tbh. Literally the only reason they're famous is due to being old.

[YoungWillz 19,053]

I do consider world's oldest people FFBI tbh. Literally the only reason they're famous is due to being old.

 

I disagree. Very old people are admired, feted, the subject of curiosity at their longevity and interviewed for their memories of historical events.

 

I'm thinking this discussion in many years time will not be famous for being ill but famous for being famous (see Tara Palmer-Tompkinson).

[Toast 14,842]

Famous for being old people don't seem to cause the same amount of controversy for some reason.

 

Probably because there's usually only one or two candidates at any one time. World's oldest man/woman, and possibly the UK oldest. The latter limited by DDP obit rules.

[Death Impends 7,368]

Way I see it is with famous for being olds is that their stories aren't tragic, and indeed quite fascinating. Rather than having their lives cut short by a devastating illness, they push the limits of human longevity. Also, in the DDP the point system means that you can't really consider them "cheap" picks, as you only get 3 points if a supercentenarian dies.

[Handrejka 1,840]

Way I see it is with famous for being olds is that their stories aren't tragic, and indeed quite fascinating. Rather than having their lives cut short by a devastating illness, they push the limits of human longevity. Also, in the DDP the point system means that you can't really consider them "cheap" picks, as you only get 3 points if a supercentenarian dies.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that, Emma Morano lost a child and had an unhappy marriage. I'm sure other old people have had equally sad lives.

[Joey Russ 7,119]

I think it's due to a lack of achievements on their own is the issues for most supercentenarians.

[Death Impends 7,368]

 

Way I see it is with famous for being olds is that their stories aren't tragic, and indeed quite fascinating. Rather than having their lives cut short by a devastating illness, they push the limits of human longevity. Also, in the DDP the point system means that you can't really consider them "cheap" picks, as you only get 3 points if a supercentenarian dies.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that, Emma Morano lost a child and had an unhappy marriage. I'm sure other old people have had equally sad lives.

 

 

Fair point that, living to a very old age doesn't mean your life before then was necessarily rosy. But even then, supercents clearly have remarkable fortitude to get as far as they have. I guess I don't see it as tragic because even if they've had difficulties in their life, it's still a case of "this person will die this year because they're 117" rather than "this person will die this year because they have terminal cancer at 25".

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

I think it's due to a lack of achievements on their own is the issues for most supercentenarians.

I'd say getting to 100 is an achievement.

[YoungWillz 19,053]

Ban: People who are just ill. People who are brought to the attention of the public by becoming ill. People who fundraise/do charity work after becoming ill. People who become authors or receive rolling coverage of their illness. Or anything else arising out of their illness. Even if they receive an honour for doing it. That would have killed off Aikman, Cafferkey, Loughlin, Sims etc etc.

 

Notability should be in the eye of the game runner. Reality stars qualify just, provided they are not on a reality show because they are ill. People who pick folk of any achievement, however minor, are being swamped by regular readers of the Mirror cancer page/gofund me. And before the cry goes up "they are risky, they might not obit", that's simply not enough.

 

Tuppence.

[msc 17,762]

Just to be awkward, it wouldn't have actually killed off Aikman as a pick, as he first came into public view in 2012-ish as part of the Better Together team (including TV coverage), a whole 2 years before the motor neuron diagnosis.

 

But I like YW's general point about "their ball, their rules". The DDP has been blessed by two calm and decent minded showrunners in a row (I assume the Big Man and Rude Kid were too, but well before my time so can't comment!) in that regard. If someone like me were in charge, the whole thing would be a lot swearier and considerably more of a mess! So I've always aimed to accept the rules of the boss instead of moan about it not being how I want.

 

Although, being in a reality show and not being ill? Oxymoron, surely? Ok, ok, no right in the head, but still...

 

Elsewhere, Famous for being famous? That's everyone of note outside writers and journalists, surely?

[deadsox 891]

Right, this tedious argument breaks out in the various deadpool threads about once a fortnight, and it never goes anywhere because it's usually people arguing over the tops of each other. So, YOU, yes, you, what do you consider "famous for being ill"? We already know that some folk consider champions in sports like rugby or darts or the like that, whereas others can argue for obscure rugby players in New Zealand being "heard of".

 

You may use folk on the DDP as reference points, but please do not use DDP players as reference points. Let's see if we can reach a point of consensus without resort to name calling, smugness or super defensiveness, etc.

 

 

I'll start by stating that for me, fame is measured in promoted achievements. So actors, writers, performers, broadcasters, sports people, politicians all qualify easily there. Terrorists and murderers, sadly, are fairly notorious, so count.

 

Famous for being ill is your cancer bloggers, and inspirational "last Christmasers" or those who want dosh to go traveling when they're at Oxford...

 

Family members of more famous family members are reliant on the person: Angelil, Nolan and the Jacksons clearly all have some relative fame, Tracy McGiffin obscure and better known to long term watchers of some rubbish daytime show ("Oh my sister did this and that and the next thing..."), whereas few would have heard of Celine Dion's brother if not for his illness/death.

 

Where I think I differ from some others is the belief that folk can move from being FFBI into being famous and ill, if the illness takes long enough and they become known for other stuff alongside being ill. To this category I put Dr Kate (OBE), Tomlinson and John's Diamond and Wilson from a while ago. My barometer for this is quite simple: if my old gran brings them up (before they die!), unaided, in conversation, they've clearly transcended into some level of national fame. (The only QO obit she sees is the Six O'Clock News...)

 

 

My gut feeling is that everyone on here has picked, at some point, someone who others would consider "famous for being ill", so, yeah, let the debate commence. Or not.

I can't disagree with any of this m, it's a really good summary. The only person/situation I would add is Terri Schiavo, which I recently posted somewhere else.

[deadsox 891]

Ban: People who are just ill. People who are brought to the attention of the public by becoming ill. People who fundraise/do charity work after becoming ill. People who become authors or receive rolling coverage of their illness. Or anything else arising out of their illness. Even if they receive an honour for doing it. That would have killed off Aikman, Cafferkey, Loughlin, Sims etc etc.

 

Notability should be in the eye of the game runner. Reality stars qualify just, provided they are not on a reality show because they are ill. People who pick folk of any achievement, however minor, are being swamped by regular readers of the Mirror cancer page/gofund me. And before the cry goes up "they are risky, they might not obit", that's simply not enough.

 

Tuppence.

Would this definition have knocked off Terri Schiavo? If so, then I would have to disagree.

[deadsox 891]

 

I think it's due to a lack of achievements on their own is the issues for most supercentenarians.

I'd say getting to 100 is an achievement.

 

I'm good with including the supercentenarians. After all, isn't it a lot nicer than all the Charles Mansons and Abu Bakr al Baghdadis of the world?

[Bibliogryphon 8,655]

I am not a fan of ffbi picks but defining famous can be hard. As an example only I am going to talk about Doctor Who. The lead actors and in more recent years the Showrunners are proper famous and would good to grace the DL proper but if you look at the list of people picked in Scavenger Hunt Bingo there are people even I had to look up. Will the population in general know who David Gooderson or Damaris Hayman are? However they will receive a modicum of publicity on death thanks to the dedication of some die-hard obsessive (Toby Hadoke).

[Toast 14,842]

I am not a fan of ffbi picks but defining famous can be hard. As an example only I am going to talk about Doctor Who. The lead actors and in more recent years the Showrunners are proper famous and would good to grace the DL proper but if you look at the list of people picked in Scavenger Hunt Bingo there are people even I had to look up. Will the population in general know who David Gooderson or Damaris Hayman are? However they will receive a modicum of publicity on death thanks to the dedication of some die-hard obsessive (Toby Hadoke).

 

Oh please, Damaris Hayman is a well-known British character actress. She's been in loads of things. She would fall into the "Oh, her" category of actors whose name might not ring a bell but whose face would be recognised.

 

I can't place the other chap by name, but he could well be an "Oh, him" as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

ETA Oh, him.

 

Personally I think any actors who have made numerous appearances on TV, film or stage earn their place.

[msc 17,762]

David Gooderson

 

 

 

He's been in shitloads of stuff.

 

tbh I thought Biblio was backing up my point about folk who weren't household names but still well known or respected within their fields ie Ms Elias, Mr Van Zandvliet and so on...

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

This is Andy Warhol 15 mins of fame stuff. In a world where whosit from Made in Wherever gets on a game show with people watching other people watching people on TV who's to say who's a celebrity.

[Vinegar Tits 584]

Famous for being ill is your cancer bloggers, and inspirational "last Christmasers" or those who want dosh to go traveling when they're at Oxford..."

And the vast majority are not famous, merely they've given their story to a local paper and the Daily Mail et al have used it as cheap filler. Certain people can become famous/household names due to their charity work whilst being ill (eg Jane Tomlinson, Stephen Sutton) but the vast majority of your cancer mums, etc, are not famous in any way whatsoever, and in my opinion shouldn't be allowed in the DDP.

 

I understand the point about old people, but at least they get a mention on Wikipedia because of their age 'achievement' and they're in the record books for a time. If a cancer blogger makes a name for themselves, or already is marginally known (journalists and academics mainly come under this category) then they're fair game. Cancer mums and the like are not famous in any way. It sounds cruel but they're rarely anyone special, they're just ill.

 

I don't think I've ever picked a 'famous for being ill' person - obviously I've picked people after hearing they're not well but they've already had to have a modicum of fame for something other than being ill.

[TeamDeath 10]

I witnessed a very edgy chat in a Death Pool competition recently about two young chaps that were described as being famous just for being ill. I don't wish to offend by printing their names, suffice to say, one doesn't have much hair and the other has a famous singer for a dad. Goes back to that being born into fame issue and piggy-backing on it.

[Deathray 2,933]

4 minutes ago, Spade_Cooley said:

 

I do love the pretence that the early 2000s Deathlist wasn't just predicated on the oldest names listed as alive on "DeadOrAlive.org" or whatever it was. Or maybe I missed the times when Brother Theodore used to pop up on Noel's House Party.

 

I mean Brother Theodere was still 10x more fucking famous than have of the geriaritiric or cancer ridden utter nobodies you and tmib have let through for the past half a decade turning the competition into an absolute fucking shitshow of a joke. Some sort of basic fame requirement is alway we've been asking for, but the cunstains like you and Death Impends and DDT who think i's something to be proud of to have an encyclopedic knowledge of cancer mums from Buttfucknowhere rather than something resembling a fucking mental illness (I can't be arsed to get my copy of the DSM out for a proper diagnosis, your unworthy of it). It's hardly like this a fucking short term issue that nobodies raised for year. TMIB had a mental breakdown because we brought up repeatedly and fucked off from running it, I don't really fucking blame him but he could have averted and so could you by actually fucking listening to us....

 

Sadly I don't see cancer mum fanatics @gcreptile @msc or @Grim Up North resolving the issue without pressure, hence my barrel scraping team of fucking nobodies. If you can't beat the cunts join the cunts...