Thoughts and opinions on the death list 2019

[msc 17,712]

20 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

Haha - and to think I’d actually started going through the process to answer Wee Jum.

 

 

Hah, well, you know me... Ahem.

 

Found the file in question, give me 10 mins or so to put wean to bed and I'll update the missing years!

[msc 17,712]

1 hour ago, Wee Jum said:

Any stats on the slot with the most deaths ?

 

14th place with 16 hits, followed by 2nd place with 13!

 

 

1.      #1 Papandreou (96) Deng Xiaoping (97) Zevon (03) JP2 (05), Rawls (06), Heston (08), James (12), Biggs (13), Crowe (16)

2.      #2 Moore (89), Jarman (94) Leary (96) M Theresa (97), Queen Mum (02) Hope (03) Wray (04), Pollack (08), Gibb (12), Chavez (13), Simon (15), Gabor (16) Wouk (19)

3.      #3 Curry (94), Bradman (01), Schmeling (05) Hofmann (08) Megrahi (12), Kalashnikov (13), Wallach (14) Havelange (16)

4.      #4 Dietrich (92), Honecker (94), Mitterand (96), Sinatra (98), Peck (03), Wiesenthal (05) Lane (07)

5.      #5 Hepburn (93), Gielgud (00), Theodore (01), Wilder (02) Reagan (04) Levi-Strauss (09), Rafferty (11) Priebke (13) Bhumibol (15) Sallis (17), Bracknell (19),

6.      #6 Everett (95), Cartland (00), Reifenstahl (03), Kunitz (06) Robson (09) , Foot (10), Niemeyer (12) Whitlam (14), Graham (18)

7.      #7 Terry Thomas (90), Rehnquist (05), jong-il (11) Martin (12) Wing (13), Pincher (14) Mugabe (19)

8.      #8 Godfree (92), Denning (99) Thurmond (03), Rainer (14), Healey (15) McCain (18)

9.      #9 Joel (92), Sung (94), Kennedy (95) Burns (96) Shaw (04) Malden (09) , Wisdom (10), Ford (11) Adams (16), Day (19)

10.   #10 Costeau (97), Valois (01) Dangerfield (04) Lucia (05), Carrington (18),

11.   #11 Nureyev (93) Mobutu (97), Moody (98) Berle (02) Alice (04), Heath (05) Astor (07), Woodhead (15) Vigoda (16)

12.   #12 Larwood (95) Stewart (97), Cookson (98) Hepburn (03) Swayze (09)  Mandela (13), Schmidt (15) Smith (16)  Booth (17)

13.   #13 Hanna (01), Lewis (06), Lee (18)

14.   #14 Bixby (93), Martin (95) Guliksson (96), Banda (97), Hickson (98) Crisp (99), Dury (00) Longford (01) Miligan (02),Teller (03), Cartier-Bresson (04), Mills (05), Solzhenitsyn (08), Macnee (15), Reagan (16)

15.   #15 Cadell (96),Grade (98) Lauder (04), Barbera (06) Gallo (07), Felt (08) Bradbury (12), Jowell (18)

16.   #16 Jones (02), Johnson (07) Downie (17)

17.   #17 Ustinov (04), Freidman (06), Deedes (07) Clarke (08) Atkins (09)  Molinaro (15),

18.   #18 Mann (95), Austin (00) Kazan (03) Cooke (04), Franklin (05) Nelson (06) Shamir (12), Paisley (14)

19.   #19 Ireland (90), Moore (02) Amies (03), Ford (06), Messner (07) Richard (09) O’Hara (15), Banks (19)

20.   #20 Sarazan (99), Swanton (00), Snead (02), Juliana (04), Nolan (13)  Lamotta (17)

21.   #21 Maskell (92), Cronkite (09), MacCorkindale (10) Lom (12) Michael (17)

22.   #22 Segovia (87), Dali (89), Havers (92) Worsnip (96), Fairbanks (00), Scarman (04) Cecil (13) BB King (15)

23.   #23 Ashe (93) Hird (03), Profumo (06) O’Brien (09) Presley (13), Hawke (19)

24.   #24 Rogers (98), Fignon (10), Wynne Jones (11)

25.   #25 Mature (99) , Hailsham (01), Sheene (03), Callaghan (05), Taylor (11) Bush Sr (18), Chirac (19)

26.   #26 Hussain (99) Pryor (05), Botha (06) de Laurentiis (10) PD James (14) Aznavour (18)

27.   #27 Ray (98) Hilary (08), Kennedy (09) Andrews (13), Rooney (14)

28.   #28 Meredith (97), Stone (02), Parks (05), Weinberger (06) Widmark (08) Tarmey (12)  Winner (13)

29.   #29 Bonano (02), Morgan (11), Thatcher (13) B Bush (18)

30.   #30 Secombe (01), Kennedy (09) O’Sullevan (15) Castro (16)

31.   #31 Ginger Rogers (95), Thatcher D (03) Cole (15) Hefner (17)

32.   #32 Sugar Ray (89), Johnston (94), Guyler (99), Hampton (02)

33.   #33 Bernard (97), Schulz (00), Diamond (01) Smith (07) Salinger (10) Lewis (17)

34.   #34 Ramsey (99) Bergman (07)  Helms (08) Demjanjuk (12) Rockefeller (17)

35.   #35 Suharto (08) Simon (18)

36.   #36 Lancaster (94), Whitehouse (01), Adair (04) Waldheim (07), Hopper (10)

37.   #37 Pym (08) Caesar (14) Nimoy (15) Forsyth (17), Harper (19)

38.   #38 Doohan (05) Edwards (10) Ghali (16) Domino (17)

39.   #39 Dawson (93), Eddington (95) Sykes (12)

40.   #40 Castle (94) Bacall (14) Michelmore (16)  Norden (18)

41.   #41 Garbo (90) Diddley (08) Kasem (14)

42.   #42 Mathau (00), Kramer (01), McCririck (19),

43.   #43 Matthews (00)  Pinochet (06) Pinter (08) Nash (15)  Campbell (17)

44.   #44 Novak (09)  Dawn (17)

45.   #45 Nixon (94) Melly (07) Ali (16) Noakes (17)  Hawking (18)

46.   #46 ADH (95), Rollason (99)  Haughey (06) Smith (10) Kerkorian (15)

47.   #47 Powell (95), Pol Pot (98) Budge (00), Amin (03) Stubbs (08)  Gough (11) Joost (17)

48.   #48 di Maggio (99), Spelling (06), Lee (15) Moore (17)

49.   #49 Savalas (94), Burroughs (97), Cash (03) Llewellyn (09) O’Toole (13) Christie (17) Baker (19)

50.   #50 Wise (99), Dunn (12) Brady (17) Smith (18) Clegg (19)

[arrowsmith 330]

22 hours ago, msc said:

 

14th place with 16 hits, followed by 2nd place with 13!

 

I have a feeling 14th place may pay off again this year. Here’s hoping. 

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

I think Sheila Mercier was a silly miss by the committee. So I hope they dont make the same mistake next year and leave soap Queens Barbara Windsor and Julie Goodyear off the list.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

On 01/01/2019 at 00:09, msc said:

First thoughts.

 

Shocked Connery and Benny got dropped, but Leslie Philips dropping might be the most shocking since... Jarusezlki?

 

 

GORBACHEV! At fucking last.

I hope they bring back Leslie Phillips next year.I think it would be too risky to leave him off again in terms of being a needless miss.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

On 01/01/2019 at 13:20, The Old Crem said:

Am very surprised ONJ has been dropped when the rumors are not good.

 

Seems like it was the right decision although  I do think she should return next year along with  

Pope Benedict 

[En Passant 2,930]

On 13/12/2019 at 22:19, Gooseberry Crumble said:

I think Sheila Mercier was a silly miss by the committee. So I hope they dont make the same mistake next year and leave soap Queens Barbara Windsor and Julie Goodyear off the list.

Christ on a bike, no personal offence meant, but every time, every single time, somebody half noteworthy (and any soap star is at best only half noteworthy) carks it somebody calls it a 'miss by the committee'. There are thousands, literally (the real meaning, not the snowflake version) thousands of famous people who 'could' be on the list. from which they pick 50, leaving thousands -50 that weren't picked.

 

Picking some half famous bod that 'did' die and calling it a 'miss' is really getting on my tits.

 

*genuinely gooseberry, this isn't a dig at you, more that it happens a lot and this was just the latest.

[CoffinLodger 1,246]

On 13/12/2019 at 22:19, Gooseberry Crumble said:

I think Sheila Mercier was a silly miss by the committee. So I hope they dont make the same mistake next year and leave soap Queens Barbara Windsor and Julie Goodyear off the list.

Was she ever on the list ? 

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

1 hour ago, En Passant said:

Christ on a bike, no personal offence meant, but every time, every single time, somebody half noteworthy (and any soap star is at best only half noteworthy) carks it somebody calls it a 'miss by the committee'. There are thousands, literally (the real meaning, not the snowflake version) thousands of famous people who 'could' be on the list. from which they pick 50, leaving thousands -50 that weren't picked.

 

Picking some half famous bod that 'did' die and calling it a 'miss' is really getting on my tits.

 

*genuinely gooseberry, this isn't a dig at you, more that it happens a lot and this was just the latest.

She's  not half famous or half noteworthy by any stretch. 

[En Passant 2,930]

21 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

She's  not half famous or half noteworthy by any stretch. 

I've never heard of her.

 

Regardless.

There are thousands of people who are famous enough by whatever measure you use to go on the list. The committee can pick 50. This leaves thousands -50 that aren't on the list. One of these thousands -50 dies and it's a 'big miss'?

Bollocks. It's simple arithmetic.

[Sir Creep 7,011]

Agreed.  Just cuz someone is 'old' doesn't mean they're to be on the list.  She was a nobody as far as the list is concerned, which are big names who are likely to be searched and bring traffic to the site.  There is a method to the madness.  So these fringe-y people will never be on it (though I think I've seen some names totally UK-centric for sure, but I get it).  
A "MISS" is when someone is very ill or diagnosed with something quite likely to knock them off inside of 12 months.  For instance, I think it's a LOCK that Harry Reid is on it next year.  He's a big name in politics, and has pancreatic caner at an advanced age.  If he isn't on the list and dies that is a BIG MISS.  But failing to list another politician of the same age without any medical reason whatsoever (let's say Gorbachev) is not a miss.  Like En Passant said, you have to pick 50.  
I am more than happy to point out 'misses' by the Committee, but there have only been one or two this year that seemed obvious, and Mercier sure as fekk wasn't one.
SC

[Banana 855]

If we're talking semantics here, she's definitely more of a deathlist-y name than Perez de Cuellar. Can anyone even name the current Secretary-General of the UN? His stint as PM of Peru only lasted 8 months. It's definitely a miss, but there's plenty of misses each year. Nobody's perfect.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

7 hours ago, En Passant said:

I've never heard of her.

 

Regardless.

There are thousands of people who are famous enough by whatever measure you use to go on the list. The committee can pick 50. This leaves thousands -50 that aren't on the list. One of these thousands -50 dies and it's a 'big miss'?

Bollocks. It's simple arithmetic.

I said silly miss not big miss.

TV soaps were a big and dominant influence in popular culture for years in  the UK.They may not be your thing,heck they dont even need to be my thing for me to consider some of the cast members to be noted for the deathlist. 

She was the central character, the matriarch of the main family the show was originally based around .She isnt just any actor who has appeared in a soap.She is just as worthy as June Brown and Leah Bracknell to be on the list and in terms of the UK ,and this is predominantly a UK site,  she is more famous than say Bob Barker .

You not having heard of her is neither here or there!

Your other point about mathematics basically amounts to saying apart from say the Queen and Prince Philip there is no such thing as a miss because your point could be more or less argued for all other names. 

Younger cast members of the now declining genre of soaps I would not automatically be inclined to think of as a bit of a miss. .Actors or actresses who played big or iconic soap characters from the shows golden era I would be more inclined to say could be described as misses.

Say Julie Goodyear, Barbara Knox, June Brown, Anita Dobson etc

Heck if Corries Bill Roache lived to be 100 and was not on the list and then died I would class it as a bit of a miss and then some!Not the end of the world note but just a bit of a miss.

 

I suspect you may be conflating and confusing your lack of interest in soaps with her not being a miss or worthy of inclusion on the deathlist. 

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

36 minutes ago, Banana said:

If we're talking semantics here, she's definitely more of a deathlist-y name than Perez de Cuellar. Can anyone even name the current Secretary-General of the UN? His stint as PM of Peru only lasted 8 months. It's definitely a miss, but there's plenty of misses each year. Nobody's perfect.

Indeed I quite agree.Anyone would think I made a big drama in my original point rather than just saying little more than it was a silly miss going by the previous post I responded too!

[CaptainChorizo 1,895]

1 hour ago, Banana said:

If we're talking semantics here, she's definitely more of a deathlist-y name than Perez de Cuellar. Can anyone even name the current Secretary-General of the UN? His stint as PM of Peru only lasted 8 months. It's definitely a miss, but there's plenty of misses each year. Nobody's perfect.

 

He is also famous though for his work with Ralph Lauren on mass marketing the polo shirt,and also teaching Jimmy Hendrix how to play guitar and being Roger Federer's tennis coach when he was young.

[dean1991 116]

2 hours ago, CaptainChorizo said:

 

He is also famous though for his work with Ralph Lauren on mass marketing the polo shirt,and also teaching Jimmy Hendrix how to play guitar and being Roger Federer's tennis coach when he was young.

 

I wonder how many folk will fact check that.

[Grim Up North 3,565]

2 hours ago, CaptainChorizo said:

 

He is also famous though for his work with Ralph Lauren on mass marketing the polo shirt,and also teaching Jimmy Hendrix how to play guitar and being Roger Federer's tennis coach when he was young.

Thanks for making a post that made the previous 10 worth reading.

 

Cheers, GUN

[En Passant 2,930]

6 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

You not having heard of her is neither here or there!

Absolutely agree.

 

I'd already said it wasn't you, or this particular name, that it was just the latest.

6 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Your other point about mathematics basically amounts to saying apart from say the Queen and Prince Philip there is no such thing as a miss because your point could be more or less argued for all other names.  

Yes.

[Toast 14,800]

My 2 cents.

The only case for including Sheila Mercier on the DL would have been her age.  I don't think that's enough, not if they are looking for people who are likely to die during the next year. There needs to be specific evidence of ill-health, and I don't think there was in her case.  Sure, anybody over 90 is going to be in their last years but there are plenty of other people with known diseases or life-limiting conditions.   And including anyone on the basis that they are "too big to miss" is missing the point IMO. 

 

I wouldn't include anyone purely because they are old.  I wouldn't put the Queen on the list, although I might include the D of E now as his health seems to be in steady decline.  OTOH he is a stubborn old bugger and I wouldn't put it past him to hang on for the ton.

[paddyfool 379]

I hadn't heard of Sheila Mercer until she died (and I'm British). Hadn't heard of Harry Reid either until just now, but perhaps I would have if I was American. I had heard of de Cuellar (and his current successor, Guterres), but appreciate that few UN secretary generals get much press (Kofi Annan may have been an exception, partly due to all the upset at the UN over the Iraq war).

 

Incidentally, the following picks were the least popular in my correctlist game (getting either 1 or 0 picks; and some of those getting 1 pick may only have been chosen for the solo bonus). All of them could probably be dropped except Jimmy Carter, whose health seems to have gone downhill significantly:

 

Alan Greenspan

Cleo Laine

Honor Blackman

Hosni Mubarak

Jimmy Carter

Valery Giscard d'Estaing
Dick van Dyke

Larry King

[Toast 14,800]

20 minutes ago, paddyfool said:

 I had heard of de Cuellar (and his current successor, Guterres), but appreciate that few UN secretary generals get much press (Kofi Annan may have been an exception, partly due to all the upset at the UN over the Iraq war).

 

 

Oh, come on!  Who could forget Boutros Boutros-Ghali? 

 

 

https://youtu.be/tWkmYraB3Rs?t=164

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

4 hours ago, Toast said:

My 2 cents.

The only case for including Sheila Mercier on the DL would have been her age.  I don't think that's enough, not if they are looking for people who are likely to die during the next year. There needs to be specific evidence of ill-health, and I don't think there was in her case.  Sure, anybody over 90 is going to be in their last years but there are plenty of other people with known diseases or life-limiting conditions.   And including anyone on the basis that they are "too big to miss" is missing the point IMO. 

 

I wouldn't include anyone purely because they are old.  I wouldn't put the Queen on the list, although I might include the D of E now as his health seems to be in steady decline.  OTOH he is a stubborn old bugger and I wouldn't put it past him to hang on for the ton.

Well I would argue that I have been vindicated by the wisdom of crowds as Sheila Mercier gave the crowdsourced deathlist their 16th hit.

 

Olivia De Havilland has been on the deathlist for years more on the basis of age and noteworthiness rather than poor health.

[Toast 14,800]

22 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Well I would argue that I have been vindicated by the wisdom of crowds as Sheila Mercier gave the crowdsourced deathlist their 16th hit.

 

But how many years would it have taken?

 

22 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Olivia De Havilland has been on the deathlist for years more on the basis of age and noteworthiness rather than poor health.

 

My point exactly.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,201]

4 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

But how many years would it have taken?

 

 

My point exactly.

Well I only advocated  Sheila when she was 99 so 2 years.There are deathlist names that have been included a lot longer than that.

 

So at what age would you have put Olivia on the list then and at what age if any would you say she should have been kept on the list regardless because shes too big to drop?

 

Surely at some point some names are so iconic that age in itself is enough to justify their likelihood to be on the list?

[Toast 14,800]

2 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Well I only advocated Sheila when she was 99 so 2 years.There are deathlist names that have been included a lot longer than that.

 

My remarks are general, not personal.   Your point about long-standing DL names is what I'm talking about.

 

2 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

So at what age would you have put Olivia on the list then and at what age if any would you say she should have been kept on the list regardless because shes too big to drop?

 

I doubt I would ever have put her on the list, because she has no known health issues. 

And as I already mentioned, I don't subscribe to the notion that anyone is "too big to miss", or to drop.

 

2 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Surely at some point some names are so iconic that age in itself is enough to justify their likelihood to be on the list?

 

No, I don't agree with that.  Not if the goal is to select people who are likely to die in the course of the next year.  Picking 50 people who are famous and 90+ is just not very interesting.  But then perhaps the Committee isn't aiming to be interesting.