dead Sir Patrick Moore

[Kim Mitten 0]

He will live forever I tell you, he looks the same today as he did in 1965 - when he looks close to death a clever scientist man will insert bits of robot in him to keep him alive - he is a national treasure and will work as a tour guide in the Science museum.

Until one day when man sets up a colony on Mars - he will be the leader of the new planet, and he will rule.

All Hail Patrick Moore

[Wolstan Dixie 0]

But will he admit to being Cedric Allingham?

 

A UFO hoax is only acceptable if you ultimately admit it, even after death - otherwise it is not a joke.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

WD; we've discussed the Allingham stuff a few pages back. As far as I understand it wasn't just him. He obviously isn't the guy pictured in the 'informal' portrait at the start of the book. I think he had help from a journo mate. It'll doubtless come out eventually, like the surgeon who faked the Nessie photos.

[Wolstan Dixie 0]

Sorry - 27 pages is rather a lot to read and the search facility doesn't appear to work - which page is it on?

 

However, I could be persuaded that the two photos of Cedric are a young, thinner, PM with false moustache and horn rimmed glasses. It is certainly his telescope.

 

Strangely there actually WAS a Cedric Allingham in the Tank Corps in 1944. Too much of a coincidence.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

WD; Try gannin' to 'my assistant' above, initiating a search for Cedric Allingham and then spooling through this thread until you see words covered in yellow highlight.

 

Re the Allingham thing; I know Jenny Randles - probably the best UFOlogist this country is likely to see - became aware Patric was in on it and during a radio show when he raised it she pointed out he was involved, at which point he shut up about it pretty quick. Re the other involvements I've heard at the odd UFO conference from some of the big hitters - like Jenny - that he had help. Bear in mind Moore was on television in the fifties, Sky at Night started very soon after the Allingham book. Disguise or not, I don't think he's the man in the picture. In fact, if the whole caper ever got widespread publicity I'm sure someone out there would out the fella next to PM's big telescope fairly quickly.

 

I'm sure the truth will out on this one because everyone involved has had a good wheeze and now, it doesn't matter any more.

[Godot 148]

WD; Try gannin' to 'my assistant' above, initiating a search for Cedric Allingham and then spooling through this thread until you see words covered in yellow highlight.

 

Re the Allingham thing; I know Jenny Randles - probably the best UFOlogist this country is likely to see - became aware Patric was in on it and during a radio show when he raised it she pointed out he was involved, at which point he shut up about it pretty quick. Re the other involvements I've heard at the odd UFO conference from some of the big hitters - like Jenny - that he had help. Bear in mind Moore was on television in the fifties, Sky at Night started very soon after the Allingham book. Disguise or not, I don't think he's the man in the picture. In fact, if the whole caper ever got widespread publicity I'm sure someone out there would out the fella next to PM's big telescope fairly quickly.

 

I'm sure the truth will out on this one because everyone involved has had a good wheeze and now, it doesn't matter any more.

Best Ufologist is a bit like saying best vampire slayer or best leprechaun spotter . A bit of a none job don't you think?

[Tempus Fugit 212]

Sounds like an ideal job to me, you set your own standards of proof and I bet the hours are good.

 

Cryptozoologist is the one I'd opt for, I reckon researching the Yeti is a lifetimes work, if handled properly.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

A bit harsh I reckon lads, best UFOlogist is - like best novelist - subjective but Jenny Randles and a few others of note; Andy Roberts and David Clark, all let the evidence lead them, have a track record of discoveries that influence further investigation and - above all - solve mysteries in a way that adds to the body of knowledge around their subject.

 

In other words, they take the whole sorry mess away from the level of knobheads sitting on hillsides or in haunted houses and claiming some trick of the light is 'definite' proof. Randles has been doing this as pretty much all of her living for decades and even drew up a code of practice for investigators. The world would probably be a better place if her levels of professionalism were enforcable by law. In a world where the least employable member of a UFO research group is often, by default, despatched to an investigation where he - trust me, it'll be a bloke - listens for a few minutes and then files a report classified 'probable ET' or similar based on the fact he's heard a vague mystery and interpreted it in the light of twenty or so paperbacks he's read, Randles and her meagre band of followers are the best hope we've got.

 

Not that I feel strongly about this, or owt.

[Godot 148]

A bit harsh I reckon lads, best UFOlogist is - like best novelist - subjective but Jenny Randles and a few others of note; Andy Roberts and David Clark, all let the evidence lead them, have a track record of discoveries that influence further investigation and - above all - solve mysteries in a way that adds to the body of knowledge around their subject.

 

In other words, they take the whole sorry mess away from the level of knobheads sitting on hillsides or in haunted houses and claiming some trick of the light is 'definite' proof. Randles has been doing this as pretty much all of her living for decades and even drew up a code of practice for investigators. The world would probably be a better place if her levels of professionalism were enforcable by law. In a world where the least employable member of a UFO research group is often, by default, despatched to an investigation where he - trust me, it'll be a bloke - listens for a few minutes and then files a report classified 'probable ET' or similar based on the fact he's heard a vague mystery and interpreted it in the light of twenty or so paperbacks he's read, Randles and her meagre band of followers are the best hope we've got.

 

Not that I feel strongly about this, or owt.

 

Seen any leprechaun's lately?

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

Yer barking up the wrong chakra Godot. The whole point about the people I'm praising is that they're - rightly in my opinion - highly dubious about the existence of fairy folk and anyone claiming to be from Zeta Reticuli. In other words they're of a similar bent (heh heh) to the hallowed Patrick. Roberts, Randles and Clark wrote one book called 'The UFOs That Never Were' demolishing some of UFOlogy's best known claims of contact most of which crumbled easily in the face of common sense and a sober assessment of the evidence.

[Godot 148]

Yer barking up the wrong chakra Godot. The whole point about the people I'm praising is that they're - rightly in my opinion - highly dubious about the existence of fairy folk and anyone claiming to be from Zeta Reticuli. In other words they're of a similar bent (heh heh) to the hallowed Patrick. Roberts, Randles and Clark wrote one book called 'The UFOs That Never Were' demolishing some of UFOlogy's best known claims of contact most of which crumbled easily in the face of common sense and a sober assessment of the evidence.

The thing is MPFC that I don't need some so-called Ufologist to tell me that flying saucers are bollocks or some parapsychologist to tell me that ghosts don't exist. Why anyone should want to devote their life to proving this stuff is bollocks when any right thinking person can make up his own mind beats me. What's the point of being a master of bollocks? In fact the universities should offer this as a qualification since they're so good at it: MsB - Master of Bollocks. I would imagine that most of us here would be able to get a magna cum laude in that.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

Fair point Godot but yer missing the fact that UFO investigation has taught us quite a few things about psychology, meteorology etc. A lot of the most reputable people in UFO investigation over the years, like Harvard Psychology professor John Mack, came at it from their own disciplines and their work was all the better for that. This is one subject that's needed rescuing from its own supporters for years. Especially so since there are genuine things to discover and the work so far proves it.

 

So - for example - there is some strange airborne phenomena taking place in Norway, whatever people are seeing has the ability to behave like a gas sometimes, a plasma at other times and show up on radar. Tracking UFO reports has been one way of getting a grasp of the scale and behaviour of the phenomenon. Similarly, the developing understanding of so called 'fantasy prone personality' - potentially a diagnosable psychological condition - has been helped by understanding why some people see UFOs and meet aliens whilst others, faced with the same stimulus, don't.

[Godot 148]

So - for example - there is some strange airborne phenomena taking place in Norway, whatever people are seeing has the ability to behave like a gas sometimes, a plasma at other times and show up on radar.

It's Santa Clause.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

No it's not. Even the skeptical Patrick Moore would have to admit there's something here not entirely known to science.

[Godot 148]

No it's not. Even the skeptical Patrick Moore would have to admit there's something here not entirely known to science.

Quote: "However, no phenomena were seen during the period when the instruments were present."

 

Quelle surprise! How often do we see that? Bring in the cameras and microphones and nothing happens, because nothing has been happening. I do in fact believe in Santa Clause. But this is yet more paratripe.

[Godot 148]

Well MPFC I've been looking at your funky Norwegian lights and I don't think they're going to make the Twighlight Zone. One is described as church floodlights and the unexplained one, I would guess Uranus.

[Godot 148]

I see Jenny Randles comes from Rossendale. 'Nuff said. The reason why that part of the Pennines has so many UFO sightings is that it's directly under the flight path to Manchester Airport.

 

Quote "during this period I regularly answered viewers questions as a supernatural agony aunt." Oh dear. She's made a tidy living out of UFOs. A bit of scepticism = acceptable face of Ufology for mainstream press and telly. Nice one, Jenny.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

Godot man, I never said this was earth shattering but if you've got a spare 20-30 hours I'd suggest wading your way through the various scientific papers linked to the Hessdalen site. Granted, most of the sightings are misidentifications and the rest. But that's the way with ALL UFO reports. Still, there is probably some natural and as yet little understood phenomena behind it. Maybe linked to the so called 'earthlights' or 'earthquake lights' which are real and have been created in laboratory tests.

 

Re Jenny Randles, she was the person who first brought the flight path/UFO report link to public prominence, therefore you obviously support some of her conclusions.

 

The point I think worth making is that if you wade through the 95%+ of crap in UFO reports and literature you find a few little nuggets well worth a look. That's what keeps Randles and the others going. The recent disclosures from the M-O-D via declassified documents suggest our defence forces have known two things for a long time:

 

i - Some UFO reports are genuine mysteries.

ii - There's no hard evidence that UFOs come from anywhere other than this planet.

 

Yer man Patrick and his arch skepticism come from his own awareness that those proponents who kick started the mass popularity of the UFO subject in the subject were - generally - nutters and charlatans leading the credulous astray. Now the whole thing has calmed down and few mass market books or television shows are appearing it's a good time for serious investigation. And a few people are making serious discoveries.

[Anubis the Jackal 76]

I remember a mate 'saw a UF0' a good few years back. He was so convinced, he bought in to the whole deal; books, magazines, conferences and all. Then the United States oficially unveiled their new Stealth Bomber, and all became clear to him.

[Magere Hein 1,397]

I remember a mate 'saw a UF0' a good few years back. He was so convinced, he bought in to the whole deal; books, magazines, conferences and all. Then the United States oficially unveiled their new Stealth Bomber, and all became clear to him.

I suppose it takes a certain mindset to fall for all that. I've seen quite a few things that I didn't understand at the time. For most of them I eventually found a perfectly natural or technical explanantions, for some I didn't. That doesn't mean that there isn't.

 

One of my favourite examples is a thing I've witnessed several times at my local train station. On a clear winter's morning shortly before sunrise there's a small, bright light visible, stationary just above the Eastern horizon. Some people notice and wonder what it is. Is it a plane? Is it a UFO? Few find the answer themselves: the planet Venus.

 

regards,

Hein

[Banshees Scream 107]

A couple months ago I looked out my window, and I often see planes and helicopters, I know how they run. I know the lights, the movements, it was no plane. It appeared to be the color of gold, moving steady, and fairly slow, gliding in the night sky. After watching it move from east to west it vanished.

[Godot 148]

And a few people are making serious discoveries.

 

Who? What?

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

Check out the long term work of - for example - Dr Michael Persinger wiki page. His work, controversial in part, revolves around the link between electromagnetism and human consciousness. He's touched on paranormal reports, like those of UFO abduction and out of body experiences because he believes there may be electromagnetic and environmental causes. In other words, he sees UFO hotspots as - potentially - the best sources of evidence for his ideas. A UK researcher called Albert Budden also touched on much the same areas. His little selling but worth reading book; Electric UFOs was the most substantial thing he published.

 

You'll find the work of these people considered in a UFO context in the writings of Jenny Randles, Andy Roberts etc. Flying Saucery is a much more accesible site where Roberts and Clark demolish sacred UFOlogical cows but give a hint of the way such demolitions teach us important lessons about sociology/psychology/credulous idiots falling for sh*t stories. Clark has a Ph.D in folklore and he sees UFO reports as a modern equivalent of the old stories, believing they teach us a lot about the need for such beliefs.

 

A beginners guide worth checking out is the Pocket Essential title on UFOs, saw it going on Amazon for 1 penny the other day. 96 pages and it runs through most of the main points without predjudice, and it's - refreshingly - not written from the point of view that they're all ETs and anyone who disagrees is narrow minded.

[Godot 148]

Well MPFC that's your few people to be sure. But serious discoveries? It doesn't look like Persinger's God helmet convinced Richard Dawkins.

[maryportfuncity 9,992]

Aye, but given his low score for temporal lobe susceptibility, it was never likely to. In fact Dawkins' score supports the totality of Persinger's theories. And Persinger is one person making scientific progress based - partly - on UFO reports. His ideas roughly translated, might suggest that many who have encounters with aliens and pass polygraphs afterwards or otherwise appear totally sincere are - in reality - experiencing temporal lobe episodes of some kind and interpreting them in line with social or personal ideas.

 

In other words, there are things being discovered and new ground is being covered on the back of UFO research. Not much evidence of any aliens, mind.