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Octopus of Odstock

Oldest Living football league players

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I've done this as a separate topic from the Time Added thread, because the Time Added thread is very catch-all, as a football thread will be.

 

I can only go by the English Football League, as I don't have access to the Scottish records, but hopefully someone can copy and paste the Scottish only players for reference here.

 

There are a number of people definitely alive and they come in the first set of information.  Of those that I'm not certain of, there will definitely be some alive but there's no report recently on them to confirm that, or no general "oldest player" posts or snippets on the web.

 

Barry Hugman's Footballers was the backup source for the list and basically it's been going through Google, BHF, UK and Ireland Family Records, Scottish Death Indexes and Probate searches to eliminate other possibilities. Some footballers I couldn't find death records for but when some clubs have gone "such and such is our oldest player" then it's made life easier.

 

Hopefully having this will actually help confirm some others off the list. The likelihood is that the top four are indeed the oldest four, but you never know...

 

So here, you go;

 

DEFINITELY (OR ALMOST CERTAINLY BELIEVED TO BE) ALIVE:

 

First Name Surname DoB Clubs
Arthur Smith 08/05/1915

Bury, Leicester City

William 

Cyril

Simpson

Lawrence

02/10/1919

12/06/1920

Carlisle, Tottenham

Wrexham, Rochdale, Blackpool

Dudley Kernick 29/08/1921 Birmingham, Northampton, Torquay
Alf Patrick 25/09/1921 York
Jack Vitty 19/01/1923 Workington, Brighton, Charlton, Boldon Villa
Reg Harrison 22/05/1923 Derby County, Boston U
Bob   Gray 14/12/1923 Gateshead, Newcastle
Charlie Chase 31/01/1924 Crystal P, Watford, Brighton
Albert Bateman 13/06/1924 Huddersfield, Yorkshire Iron and Steel
Eric Dale 06/07/1924 Shrewsbury, Irlam 
Daniel Flanagan 24/11/1924 Manchester City, Bradford, Notts County
Walter Jones 04/04/1925 Blackpool, York, Grimsby, Doncaster
John Watling 11/05/1925 Bristol Rovers
Jock Aird 18/02/1926 Burnley, Scotland
Tony Collins 19/03/1926 Crystal P, Watford, Rochdale, Torquay, Norwich, York, Sheff W
Les Onslow 29/08/1926 Swindon, South Marston
Trevor Hitchen 25/09/1926 Southport, Wigan, Oldham, Notts Cty, Wellington, Halifax
Bill Holmes 29/10/1926 Southport, Morecambe,  Bradford C, Blackburn, Wolves, Doncaster
Sam Burton 10/11/1926 Swindon
George Holt 28/02/1927 Halifax
Charlie Heffron 13/08/1927 Bradford PA, Belfast Celtic
Gordon Astall 22/09/1927 Birmingham, Torquay, Plymouth, Southampton
Frank O'Farrell 09/10/1927 Preston, West Ham
Don Woan 07/11/1927 Tranmere, Bradford, Leyton O, Liverpool, Bootle
Ray Brown 11/02/1928

Notts County, Queens Park

Jimmy

Billy

Elder                

Murphy

05/03/1928

22/03/1928

Portsmouth, Colchester, Yeovil

Bristol Rovers, Exeter, Stirling Albion

Derek Ufton 31/05/1928 Charlton, England
Dick Taylor 21/08/1928 Southport, Everton
Con Sullivan 22/08/1928 Arsenal, Bristol City, Horfield
Tommy Docherty 24/08/1928 Arsenal, Chelsea, Scotland
Harry Jarvis 08/10/1928 Notts County, Worksop
Cecil Steeds 11/01/1929 Bristol City, Bristol Rovers
Joe Boyden 12/02/1929 Walsall
John Core 29/03/1929 Halifax
Len Fletcher 28/04/1929 Ipswich, RAF Didcot
Don Gibson 12/05/1929 Leyton O, Sheff W, Man U
Ron Baynham 10/06/1929 Luton, England
Polly Ward 15/06/1929 Bradford PA, Bradford C, Kings Lynn
Roy Killin 18/07/1929 Lincoln, Man U
Eddie McLaren 08/09/1929 Reading, Blackpool
Terry Robinson 08/11/1929 Brentford, Northampton, England Amateur
Maurice Leather 09/11/1929 Portsmouth
Tommy Banks 10/11/1929 Bolton, England
Ron Harbertson 23/12/1929

Lincoln, Darlington, Wrexham, Grimsby, Bradford, Brighton, Newcastle

 

 

 

PROBABLY ALIVE

 

First Name Surname DoB Clubs Google
Maurice Leslie 19/08/1923 Swindon, India, 53rd infantry division alive 2011  
Tom Docherty 15/04/1924 Norwich, Lincoln, Reading, Newport County alive in 2010  
Peter Greenwood 11/09/1924 Chester, Burnley, Todmorden alive in 2009
Terry Regan 26/06/1926 Bradford City Alive in 2012
Russell Crossley 25/06/1927 Shrewsbury, Liverpool Alive in 2012
John Scott 18/07/1928 Leeds, Workington alive in 2011
Alex Forsyth 29/09/1928 Darlington, Falkirk Alive in 2012
Bobby Bruce 14/10/1928 Leicester, Leyton O Alive in 2012
Keith Francis 22/07/1929 Leyton O, Yeovil Alive in 2012
Tommy Forgan 12/10/1929 York, Hull Alive 2011 in Australia


CANNOT CONFIRM IF ALIVE OR NOT:

First Name Surname DoB Clubs
Joe McCormack 15/07/1916 Scunthorpe, Boston, Rochdale, Bolton
Fred Kilshaw 24/08/1916 New Brighton, Leicester
Reg Pugh 28/07/1917 Cardiff
Jerry Jones 28/09/1918 Hartlepool, Belle Vue Congs
Billy O'Neill 29/01/1919 Walsall, Burnley, Chelmsford
Dewis Brown 04/06/1919 Stockport, Rotherham
John Lavery                 24/11/1919       Bradford City, Dundalk, Halifax Town (probably dead)
Jim Smith 01/01/1920 Leyton O, Burnley
William Reid 13/01/1920 Newport, Cumnock Juniors
George Wallace 18/04/1920 Scunthorpe
Ron Rothwell 10/07/1920 Rochdale, Dunfermline
Mike Kelly 30/11/1920 Crewe, Wolves
Eddie Martin 30/03/1921 Accrington, Alloa
Alec Jackson 02/10/1921 York, Huddersfield
Tommy Sinclair 13/10/1921 Bradford, brentford, Aldershot
Eric Hampson 11/11/1921 Stoke, Stafford Rangers
Reg Hipkin 31/12/1921 Brighton, Charlton, Wolves, Norwich
John McCarthy 22/01/1922 Cork United, Bristol City
Ken White   15/03/1922 Hull, Selby Town
Ron  James 16/03/1922 Birmingham, Wolves, Northampton
Herbert Robinson 30/04/1922 Accrington, Barnoldswick
John O'Sullivan 30/05/1922 Swansea, Aldershot, Waterford, Lovells
David Lindsay 29/06/1922 Southend, Sunderland, Blantyre Victoria
David Reid 03/01/1923 Crewe, Workington, Bradford PA, Rochdale, Glasgow Perthshire
Roy Moody 12/03/1923 Lincoln, Workshop
David Gray 13/04/1923 Bradford City
Andrew Jack   30/06/1923 Tranmere, Wishaw
Frank Winters 30/10/1923 Torquay, Clyde
Trevor Churchill 20/11/1923 Reading, Swindon, Rochdale, Leicester, Sheff U
Syd Ward 26/11/1923 Bradford, Upton Colliery
James Clarke 07/12/1923 Nottingham Forest, Darlaston
John McBride 31/12/1923 Third Lanark, Reading, Shrewsbury
Charlie McClelland 08/01/1924 Exeter, Blackburn, Hyde Utd
Fred Sharpe 26/01/1924 Wrexham, 
Joseph Murphy 30/03/1924 Crystal Palace, Brighton, Shelbourne
Sam Parker 05/04/1924 Crewe, Accrington, Barnsley
Sammy Nelson 26/05/1924 Blackpool, Luton, Linfield Swifts
Tommy Moran 31/05/1924 Accrington, Ayr
John Taylor 24/06/1924 Bradford, Kilmarnock
Ray Ruffett 20/07/1924 Luton 
Frank Wood 17/08/1924 Bury, Exeter, Shrewsbury
Ernie Butler 28/08/1924 Darlington, Southend, Stockton
Johnny Jones 31/10/1924 Milwall, Larne, Fulham
Henry Potts 23/01/1925 Northampton, Pegasus
James Kelly 16/02/1925 Carlisle, Tottenham, Glenavon
Tommy Carpenter 11/03/1925 Watford, Harrow
John Ollerenshaw 03/04/1925 Oldham, Hartelpool, Arsenal
Ted Harding 05/04/1925 Crystal P, Coalville
James Taylor 07/04/1925 Crewe, Man City
Fred Martin 14/04/1925 Accrington, Blackburn
Ernie Woodcock 14/05/1925 Bury, Oldham
Ron Mitchell 27/05/1925 Celtic, Exeter
Bert Williams 19/06/1925 Newport, Wales Amateur
Bill  Mellor 29/06/1925 Accrington, Droyslden
Eric Searle 20/07/1925 Aldershot
Albert Wright 21/07/1925 Lincoln, Ollerton Colliery
Bill Parker 15/08/1925 Reading, Swindon, Exeter
Eryk Kubicki 18/08/1925 York, Polish Army
Ambrose Wilson 10/10/1925 Swansea, Glenavon
Billy Dale 26/10/1925 Crewe, Accrington, Southport, Halifax
Arnold Jackson 10/11/1925 Shrewsbury, Stockport
Jimmy Kirk 12/11/1925 Aldershot, Torquaym, Colchester, St Mirren, Bury
Johnny Williams 21/11/1925 Blackburn, Southport
Eddie Lewis 21/01/1926 Leyton O
Jim  Jowett 27/01/1926 York, Sheffield United
Dennis Thomas 02/02/1926 Accrington, Bury, Wardley Colliery
Joe Houston 27/02/1926 Aldershot, Dunfermline
Joe Lancaster 28/04/1926 Accrington, Manchester United
Fred Smith 07/05/1926 Bradford, Grimsby, Man City, Sheff U, Derby C, Draycott
Joe Slattery 03/06/1926 Accrington, Hexham
Ray McKee  16/06/1926 Northampton, Finchley
Ray Howells 27/06/1926 Crystal P, Exeter
Eric Downes 25/08/1926 Rochdale, Chester
Alf Horne 06/09/1926 Northampton 
Alec Montgomery 16/09/1926 Walsall, Baddesley
Bill Anderson 06/11/1926 Southend, Hibs
Les Dicker 20/12/1926 Southend, Tottenham
Ken Williams 07/01/1927 York, Doncaster
Don Maddison 15/02/1927 Bradford PA, Blackpool, Darlington, Sunderland
Phil Turner 20/02/1927 Chester, Accrington, Scunthorpe, Bradford PA, Carlisle
George Davies 01/03/1927 Chester, Sheff W, Oswestry
John Brooks 08/03/1927 Stoke  
Jack Ritchie 31/03/1927 Accrington, Crossgates Prmirose
Henry Wood 08/04/1927 Chesterfield, South Liverpool
Norman Lewis 28/05/1927 Gravesend, Newport, Shrewsbury, Oakengates
Chris Leonard 11/07/1927 Darlington, South Sheilds
John Murray 15/07/1927 Gillingham, Leyton O
Robert Slade 15/07/1927 Millwall, Acton Town
Derek Hawksworth 16/07/1927 Bradford, Lincoln, Huddersfield, Sheff Utd
Harry Simpson 02/08/1927 Accrington, Lytham
Graham Miller 25/08/1927 Aldershot, Workington
Gordon Revel 19/09/1927 Mansfield
Bryan Williams 04/10/1927 Liverpool, South Liverpool, Crewe
Robert Williams 25/10/1927 Liverpool, Shrewsbury, Wrexham
Tom McGairy 25/11/1927 Walsall, Dumbarton
Sid Watson 12/12/1927 Mansfield
James Scott 26/12/1927 Workington, Alloa
Bill Wood 28/12/1927 Sheffield Utd, Hull, Sunderland
Albert Capstick 02/01/1928 Accrington, Fleetwood
Robert Godwin 03/02/1928 Swindon, Old Headlandians
Ken Maxwell 11/02/1928 Bradford PA, Northampton, East Stirling, Kilmarnock
Charles Campbell 27/02/1928 Oldham, Rutherglen Glencairn
Edward Cunningham 20/03/1928 Chesterfield, Blackburn
Peter Langman 01/04/1928 Plymouth, Tavistock
Alan Godderidge 23/05/1928 Walsall, Swansea, Tamworth
Jack Street 30/05/1928 Barrow, Bootle, Southport, Tranmere
Geoff Steiner 08/06/1928 Watford, Barnet
Reg Chapman 14/06/1928 Crewe, Hereford
Chris Conway 23/07/1928 Bury, Ayr Utd
Andy Mullen 28/07/1928 South Sheilds, Aston Villa, Scunthorpe, Workington, Brighton
Bernard Kelly 21/08/1928 Brentford, Bath City
Denis  Howe 14/09/1928 Aldershot, Southend, Darlington, West Ham
John Ogilvie 28/10/1928 Mansfield, Leicester
Alan Layton 27/11/1928 Barrow, Bolton
Ronnie Codd 03/12/1928 Barrow, Sheff W, Bolton, Meynell
Herbert Jones  20/01/1929 Wrexham, Colwyn Bay
Willie O'Brien 26/01/1929 Darlington  
Ron Evans 21/02/1929 Stockport, Bolton
Harry Williams 24/02/1929 Swindon, Bury, West Ham, Man U
Kenny McDevitt 04/03/1929 Tranmere, Unity BC
Arthur Bramley 25/03/1929 Mansfield, Bentick Collery Welfare
Ted McNeill 26/03/1929 Sunderland, Portadown
Joe Harris 08/04/1929 Oldham, Blackburn
Ernie Bond 04/05/1929 Carlisle, Man Utd
Charlie Cowsill 05/05/1929 Bury, Workington, Ashton
John Williamson 08/05/1929 Blackburn, Manchester City
Louis Bimpson 14/05/1929 Rochdale, Bournemouth, Blackburn, Liverpool, Burscough
Roy Martin 16/05/1929 Chesterfield, Derby, Birmingham
Ron Steel 03/06/1929 Darlington, Bishop Auckland
John Cook 26/06/1929 Bristol Rovers
Ron Phoenix 30/06/1929 Rochdale, Man City
Colin Walker 07/07/1929 Derby County
Brian Woodward 12/07/1929 York, Leeds
       
Keith Thomas 28/07/1929 Cardiff, Plymouth, Exeter, Oswestry, Sheff W
Billy Molloy 28/08/1929 Newport, Southampton, Lockheed, Ludgershall
Geoff Hill 31/08/1929 Carlisle  
Bernard Shaw 04/09/1929 Goole, Lincoln, Hull
Tom McGoldrick 20/09/1929 Chesterfield, Rotherham
Roy Evans 07/10/1929 Watford, Millwall
David Proctor 10/10/1929 Barrow, Blackpool, Portadown, Wrexham, Norwich, Northwich
Ray Ratcliffe  03/11/1929 Stockport
John Clowes 05/11/1929 Stoke, Wellington, Crewe, Shrewsbury
Johnny Langland 09/11/1929 hartlepool, Blyth, Chesterfield, Sunderland, Silksworth
Jimmy Forrest 14/11/1929 Accrington, Leeds, Musselburgh
John Yates 18/11/1929 Chester, Sheff Utd
John Babes 20/11/1929 Scunthorpe, Arsenal, Glentoran
Johnny Simm 24/11/1929 Bolton, Bradford C, Bury
Frank Varney 27/11/1929 Lincoln, Hull, Oxford
George Price 02/12/1929 Crewe
Liam Coll 16/12/1929 Accrington
Johnny Moffatt 22/12/1929 Brighton, Bellshill
Jim Storey 30/12/1929 Darlington, Rochdale, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Exeter
Edited by Octopus of Odstock
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Awesome work OoO - much respect.

 

Ironic in a way that these players have outlived the Football League lives of some of the clubs they played for. Seems unlikely we'll see the likes of Barrow, Workington, Chester, Bradford PA or Southport back in the league any day soon, though Barrow have lately hauled themselves into play-off contention for the National League

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Jack Vitty is a weird one. Wikipedia uses the Post War English & Scottish Football League A–Z Player's Database to give a DOB as 19/1/1923. 

However, this Ancestry tree says he was born in 1926 and died in 2001. At the bottom it mentions he was a professional footballer for Charlton and Brighton.

Further add to the confusion this article from 2016 that has a recent picture of him and says he's 72 (typo? should it have said 92? or is it a rehashed old article?).

Very puzzling.

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3 hours ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Jack Vitty is a weird one. Wikipedia uses the Post War English & Scottish Football League A–Z Player's Database to give a DOB as 19/1/1923. 

However, this Ancestry tree says he was born in 1926 and died in 2001. At the bottom it mentions he was a professional footballer for Charlton and Brighton.

Further add to the confusion this article from 2016 that has a recent picture of him and says he's 72 (typo? should it have said 92? or is it a rehashed old article?).

Very puzzling.

 

It's a safe bet he was born in January 1923. The government's General Records Office list an entry registered in Sedgefield, just down the road from Chilton.

 

The Ancestry tree is most likely someone put two and two together during their research and came up with five. There was a John Vitty born in Gateshead in 1926 who probably died in 2001. Our guy is very much alive in 2016.

 

The Chronical editorial age is just a copy and paste error; I found a rehash of the story dated a year later and he was still 72.

 

 

vitty.jpg

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One of the aims of this list was that early on when U95 put the original list together, there was surprise that such a large age gap could exist between Smith and the next contender. I'm pleased that, already, we have someone who wasn't on any of the official lists now in 2nd place. And who knows, he may not be 2nd, there may yet be others to be found.

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You're basing that conclusion on the editorial "and was believed to be the oldest surviving Dundalk player".  I'll trust your skills at researching more than whoever wrote that sentence for the paper.  Believed by WHOM to be?  Who kept track?  See.... problems with that statement (I'm the Tuskegee Airmen person so, I know the drill).  If I were you I'd put an asterisk or summat by Lavery rather than a skull+crossbones lol.  As you said above, always finding new people, or new info on existing ones.
SC

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SC, you make very good points actually. 

With Lavery, I'm going on intuition but who would've thought Simpson was still alive. I think I'll take your advice and put him in some kind of symbol to denote thst he probably is dead but can't be sure. 

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Edited and put Lavery in.

 

However,  Mick Nagy (b. 1929) died as long ago as 1970, so he's been removed.

 
       
 
       
 
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Leeds United have just celebrated their 100th birthday and as a result have found their oldest player - Royden Wood, who is NOT in the above list, having just turned 89. - https://www.thesquareball.net/leeds-united/leeds-united-1-0-birmingham-city-100-chances/

 

I'd say this is quite accurate because they've clearly gone to lengths to make sure they could find their oldest. So of those on the list that actually played for Leeds it appears to remove * (Yes, I know there's nothing certain but there's a difference between a blog post that says "believed" even if it is linked to the site and the club inviting its oldest player to a gala dinner),

 

Frank Taylor (1923)

Jock Finlay (1925)

Ralph Harrison (1926)

George Miller (1927)

 

However I think John Scott (1928) is still alive. He played 111 times for Leeds and is listed as a past president here (it is the same man if you Google - https://www.cumbria-golf-union.org.uk/executives). So was it that Scott couldn't attend and actually Wood was the oldest who could? Because that changes the whole situation.

 

FWIW, I think Taylor is likely dead, so I'll mark him as red. Miller emigrated back to South Africa so we may not know for a while if he's still alive. The other two didn't really have long careers there so could quite easily also be gone so they're all marked as red. If it wasnt for Scott, I'd be more inclined to go for certainty with the above report.

 

Ernie Whittam, Brian Woodward and Jimmy Forrest never played a league game for Leeds but were on their books.

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Jimmy Elder (March 5th 1928) who played a single game for Portsmouth in November 1949 before a successful five year stint at Colchester confirmed still living at 91 by the Pompey History Society through detective work. Not even on the lists in the opening post. 

 

https://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/news/2019/october/last-surviving-member-of-championship-team-re-discovered/

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Yep, because Portsmouth were adamant Leather was the oldest and all others were dead when McGhee died. 

Good, I'll amend the list

 

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No. 8 on your alive section, Bert Mozley, has just died according to Wikipedia and Getty Images. 

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As the wonderful findmypast site is free of charge and as they have the 2007-2017 deaths available, I've been able to strike a couple more off the list.

 

Len Kane (1926) - ex Preston, Plymouth who was alive in 2010, died in 2011 - https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=BMD%2FD%2FMILLEN%2F002133997

 

Also gone:

Tom Mason (1925) ex Hartlepool

 

 

It also increases the chances - so long as they live in the UK - of some of the rarer names being alive as they're not on any death record from 1911-2017.

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2 hours ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

As the wonderful findmypast site is free of charge and as they have the 2007-2017 deaths available, I've been able to strike a couple more off the list.

 

The GRO Death Index has recently been updated to cover deaths from 1984 to 2019 :blink: although the index only gives year of birth and not full d.o.b.

It's free to search, although you need to register.

Still a gap between 1957 and 1984, but FreeBMD has that pretty much covered.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

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19 hours ago, Toast said:

 

The GRO Death Index has recently been updated to cover deaths from 1984 to 2019 :blink: although the index only gives year of birth and not full d.o.b.

It's free to search, although you need to register.

Still a gap between 1957 and 1984, but FreeBMD has that pretty much covered.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Thanks Toast!

 

Obviously no full date of birth makes it tricky to be certain we have the right man but these two have definitely gone, both in the last year.

 

DICKENS, LEO     1927  
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q1/2019 in Wakefield  (097-1A)  Entry Number 518647755

 ex-Chester and Rotherham

 

ELLIOTT, FREDERICK  FRANCIS George 1929  
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2018 in Carmarthenshire  (822-1A)  Entry Number 518226801

 

ex Mansfield, Fulham, Stoke, Swansea, Merthyr Tydfil

 

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Blackpool have just confirmed Cyril Robinson has died aged 90.  The last player from their successful 1953 fa Cup final 

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Never played in the football league, but one of the oldest living footballers is Glentoran's Bertie Wright - 100 years old: 

 

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glentoran-hero-bertie-wright-celebrates-17145318

 

Gordon Astall - a full spread by the Daily Mail, physically he looks well - he has dementia though https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7668571/His-mind-grip-dementia-Astalls-eyes-light-mention-debut.html

 

Another source that says Royden Wood is the oldest Leeds player (Scott did play in goal so I do think the other three mentioned above are dead as they are all outfield and surely someone would've brought at least one of them up) - https://theathletic.co.uk/1282784/2019/10/14/the-player-who-shared-a-dressing-room-with-stanley-matthews-and-the-beatles/

 

and finally a nice article on Bert Mozley - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poignant-tale-of-bert-mozley-england-s-oldest-player-7gfljx9mr

 

 

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2 hours ago, time said:

Liverpool & Bolton's Johnny Wheeler dies aged 91.

Second casualty from the Matthews 1953 FA Cup final in a week.

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1 hour ago, redrumours said:

Second casualty from the Matthews 1953 FA Cup final in a week.

 

This leaves Doug Holden as this game's last surviving player. 

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