2019 General Election - 4 way Clusterfuck or a End to Brexit?

[Deathray 2,941]

Official campaigning period now begins.

 

The entire thing has so far been an absolute fucking mess for every party with candidates resigning from all major parties in the usual round of 'oh fuck they actually said that' and ministers and party spokespeople making their usual foot in mouth comments.

 

It can only be the first day of an election campaign.

[Deathray 2,941]

We've ramped up to Cabinet Minister resigns by lunch time on Official Day 1.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50302173

 

The guy lied about knowing about a candidate who sabotaged a rape trial, sabotaging a rape trial.

 

JRM who essentially said that 'Grenfell victims lacked common sense' remains in post.

[Bibliogryphon 9,592]

A bit sick of LK on BBC trying to play all of this down. It looks like a rerun of the 2017 campaign all over again.

 

Apparently the Tories are so desperate  they think putting Priti Patel at the centre of the campaign is going to be a winner.........

[Grim Up North 3,727]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

JRM who essentially said that 'Grenfell victims lacked common sense' remains in post.

 

I'm no JRM fan and he was foolish to even enter into the conversation (least said etc) but he didn't actually say the victims lacked common sense - people have just twisted what he said to suit their own agenda.

 

He said he has read the first report of the Grenfell Inquiry, which was published last week, and has concluded that ‘the chances of people surviving’ the fire in Grenfell would have increased if they had ignored the fire service’s advice to ‘stay put’. He says that if he had been in that burning building, he would have left. ‘It just seems the common-sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen’, he said.

 

In other words the fire service advice was contrary to common sense and as a result people died and it's a tragedy.

 

I don't care about what happens to JRM but I do get offended by the media and others studying every word politicians say to try and exploit an angle - it's because of stupidity like this that no politician will ever give a straight answer to any question.

[Deathray 2,941]

3 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

I'm no JRM fan and he was foolish to even enter into the conversation (least said etc) but he didn't actually say the victims lacked common sense - people have just twisted what he said to suit their own agenda.

 

He said he has read the first report of the Grenfell Inquiry, which was published last week, and has concluded that ‘the chances of people surviving’ the fire in Grenfell would have increased if they had ignored the fire service’s advice to ‘stay put’. He says that if he had been in that burning building, he would have left. ‘It just seems the common-sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen’, he said.

  

In other words the fire service advice was contrary to common sense and as a result people died and it's a tragedy.

 

I don't care about what happens to JRM but I do get offended by the media and others studying every word politicians say to try and exploit an angle - it's because of stupidity like this that no politician will ever give a straight answer to any question.

 

But the issue that the fire service was not contrary to common sense. The only reason the advice didn't work is because the cladding spread the fire round the outside of the building and quickened the spread of the fire. That's why is remarks are so offensive. If it wasn't for the council having ignored safety fears then the advice would have been correct; it's only 'common sense' to leave a burning high rise flat if the high rise flat has been made stupidly more flammable than it actually is. 

[msc 18,483]

39 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

 

In other words the fire service advice was contrary to common sense and as a result people died and it's a tragedy.

 

It's not actually. 9 times out of 10 in these situations mass death is caused by panic and crowd crushes rather than actual fire, so the fire brigade try to avoid that as well as put out the fire. In the case of Grenfell, no one had bothered to tell the fire service about the flammable cheap cladding, so they worked on the standard principle: avoid panic, isolate area of fire, evacuate the necessary, put out fire.

 

The firemen used the safety advice that helps to save thousands of British lives every year. Its just that in this instance, crucial information was kept from them and the residents, and well, the results were as they are.

 

JRM is using hindsight to judge and thus is open to criticism.

[Toast 16,155]

Not sure if this belongs in here, but a meeting with Homes England* over a housing development in a village near me has been postponed until after the election.  Someone on Facebook enquired whether this announcement came from a "credible source".

I couldn't resist. 

 

* in case anyone is unaware, this warm fluffy name conceals a Government department lurking underneath.

[Grim Up North 3,727]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

 

But the issue that the fire service was not contrary to common sense. The only reason the advice didn't work is because the cladding spread the fire round the outside of the building and quickened the spread of the fire. That's why is remarks are so offensive. If it wasn't for the council having ignored safety fears then the advice would have been correct; it's only 'common sense' to leave a burning high rise flat if the high rise flat has been made stupidly more flammable than it actually is. 

 

48 minutes ago, msc said:

 

It's not actually. 9 times out of 10 in these situations mass death is caused by panic and crowd crushes rather than actual fire, so the fire brigade try to avoid that as well as put out the fire. In the case of Grenfell, no one had bothered to tell the fire service about the flammable cheap cladding, so they worked on the standard principle: avoid panic, isolate area of fire, evacuate the necessary, put out fire.

 

The firemen used the safety advice that helps to save thousands of British lives every year. Its just that in this instance, crucial information was kept from them and the residents, and well, the results were as they are.

 

JRM is using hindsight to judge and thus is open to criticism.

 

Yes I accept both your points. The council/cladding was the problem and the advice to stay put is normally appropriate and helps the fire service - they can get up stairwells without fighting past all the fleeing residents for example.

 

But he isn't being pilloried for flammable cladding or for using hindsight to judge.

 

He is being attributed to have said the Grenfell residents lacked common sense and he simply didn't say that or even imply it.

 

And I say again I'm no fan of JRM, he's a twat, but if politicians are not able to talk reasonably and have sensible discussions when asked sensible questions without someone trying to manipulate their answer to show them in the worst light then it frustrates me.

[Paul Bearer 6,113]

Well, I said it at the last election, and I think the same thing applies.  I don't think the tories want to win this election. 

[msc 18,483]

Tom Watson retiring!

[TQR 14,408]

On 06/11/2019 at 20:05, msc said:

Tom Watson retiring!

 

Well, it was either jump or be pushed, let's be honest.

[Deathray 2,941]

3 hours ago, msc said:

Tom Watson retiring!

 

Resigning. He plans to remain active in politics.

 

Suggestions a number of other 'moderates' will resign over the coming weeks to try and do as much damage as they can to the party going into the election, so they can swoop in and install a Blairite afterwards. Between this and the Lib Dems it's the same as always, the left tearing into eachother rather than the enemy and letting the enemy in.

[RIP Wee Jum 1,559]

This sums up the Scottish tories
 

 

[Spade_Cooley 9,542]

If you were looking for a little international guest-star power, how about Modi attempting to swing the constituency of Slough for the Conservatives?

[Toast 16,155]

1 hour ago, Spade_Cooley said:

If you were looking for a little international guest-star power, how about Modi attempting to swing the constituency of Slough for the Conservatives?

 

Down with torrorists! 

 

[Spade_Cooley 9,542]

Full list of which seats are part of the "REMAIN ALLIANCE" horse-trade as well: http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/07/the-unite-to-remain-alliance-the-seats-where-one-of-the-greens-the-lds-or-pc-will-be-given-a-clear-run/

 

Will the Greens finally get their second seat, and will it be Isle of Wight or Bristol West?

[Deathray 2,941]

@msc was it you being sarcy about the Lib Dem / Green pact;

 

Apparently it's not quite 'we'll stand down in Brighton and you stand down everywhere else....;

 

but 'oh shit the Greens can't afford to lose a load more five hundred quid deposits.'

 

 

[msc 18,483]

43 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

@msc was it you being sarcy about the Lib Dem / Green pact;

 

Apparently it's not quite 'we'll stand down in Brighton and you stand down everywhere else....;

 

but 'oh shit the Greens can't afford to lose a load more five hundred quid deposits.'

 

 

 

Probably. Although bar their deposits the Greens have little to lose. Plaid on the other hand could lose most of their seats.

[Deathray 2,941]

11 minutes ago, msc said:

 

Probably. Although bar their deposits the Greens have little to lose. Plaid on the other hand could lose most of their seats.

 

No. The Greens genuinely have no money. Given standing candidates in all 650 constituencies costs 325,000 pounds, Unite to Remain is more United and Skint.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/let-battle-commence-how-the-parties-are-shaping-up-for-decembers-election

 

Quote

 

The Greens are by no means a rich party. In the past 12 months, total donations have been below £200,000 and a fall in their vote share in the 2017 election led to a drop in official funding for parliamentary activity, forcing them to resort to a public crowdfunder to avoid laying off staff.

That said, the Greens have an increasingly sophisticated election operation, and one that has expanded as its local councillors have spread. At May’s local elections, the party won 200 councillors, something the leadership put down to years of carefully-targeted effort.

As a campaign machine, the Greens have the advantage of two eloquent and telegenic co-leaders in Siân Berry and Jonathan Bartley, an arrangement that is no longer mocked, as happened when Bartley first co-led with Caroline Lucas, the party’s sole MP.

 

[TQR 14,408]

Most national newspapers, and the BBC, are so gleefully and incessantly reporting on Ian Austin (ex-Junior Minister formerly off of Labour) advising people to vote Tory in the election.
 

That’s fine. But where is the coverage of Ken Clarke (ex-Chancellor, ex-Home Secretary, ex-Justice Secretary, thrice leadership candidate, off of Conservatives for half a century) advising people to tactically vote against the Tories? There is none.

 

Good old British political journalism.

[msc 18,483]

They're just taking away all of Deathray's election night excitement...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50369905

[Deathray 2,941]

22 minutes ago, msc said:

They're just taking away all of Deathray's election night excitement...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50369905

 

It's a good job it's a four party election, because otherwise this could be turning into an incredibly dull affair.

 

Soubry losing her seat should be fun though. 

[Deathray 2,941]

On 07/11/2019 at 12:00, Spade_Cooley said:

If you were looking for a little international guest-star power, how about Modi attempting to swing the constituency of Slough for the Conservatives?

 

Or Mike Freer campaigning in Israel for ex-pats to vote in his  very Jewish constituency.

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/mike-freer-campaigns-in-israel-for-votes-in-finchley-and-golders-green-1.491017

[TQR 14,408]

Führage has backed down; BXP not standing in current Tory seats.

 

Just 3 days ago, the fucking shyster tweeted this:

 

[Deathray 2,941]

Standing down in Tory held seats.

 

Retaining his candidates in Lab/Lib Dem held seats.

 

 

We're absolutely fucked here.