Shroud

If u have to deal with a president Cruz or Trump, good luck with that, "mates."

Sancturay seller, I mean that we Americans don't have to explain ourselves to anybody, your sorry ass or anybody else -- I know about how Churchill was here every month, at least, trying to get the US into WW 2, though I'm sure this is told far differently over there. He knew you clowns were beaten without us, and that is the end-all of it. In retrospect, it would have been better had we not gotten into the first World War, and the Central Powers eventually won out. Would have spared a lot of American blood being spilled on behalf of people who hate us. I used to think that this claim of being hated so badly was only so much right-wing propaganda, but I suppose they do know what they're talking about every once in awhile. As far as I am concerned, you haven't gotten what is coming to you just yet, and I only hope I last long enough to see the full comeuppance take place. It would like fine to see the flag of the Russian Federation waving over London, Paris, and the rest of western Europe, I must say. No skin off of our noses, after all. The again, if Putin is open to splitting Europe 50/50, I suppose I could live with that easily enough. I imagine the European women would appreciate having American men a great deal over what they have to chose from presently. Take a flying leap, why don't you?

I must say I am somewhat confused at some of the comments directed either at myself, or the US generally. Many of yo have seemed to say our help wasn't needed in the WW 2 years, while Biblio berates us for not getting involved sooner. On really can't have it both ways, you know. Anyhow, the Korean conflict involved the UN generally as well as the US, so many other countries were involved there besides the US on the South's side. Hopefully, this will be the final comments on the subject. I really feel no need to have to explain my positions or defend the US on any of it, really, in the end.

I see some of your point, Biblio, although our Founders advised strongly future generations not to become involved in European wars in particular given the bloody history Europe has had, and etc al. I only went back to this subject due to someone's remarks on Jane Fonda which tried to imply that I am some right wing fanatic, which is most certainly not the case. I think you will find Ms. Clinton much more aggressive a leader than M,. Obama has for the record assuming she wins. Given her personality and other problems, that's not a given at all. I am a progressive, but obviously there are major cultural differences between US progressives sometimes, and UK ones. If the Falklands affair wasn't a war, then what was it? I believe we provided(quietly) intelligence support to Thatcher during it. For the record, I would rather Bin Laden had been taken alive and tried for his crimes as well. Veterans of Vietnam and those really on the far-right are ones who detest Jane Fonda, and from the veterans perspective, I can understand why they still do so. As far as provinces or territories go, if I owned the Mojave desert, I still wouldn't fall all over myself to go live there, people. That one of the points I was making on the Falkands also. Instead of insulting Americans because of a bad leader like Bushie jr, why not check into people like Audie Murphy whom I mentioned before? It would be time better spent than arguing back and forth like this,,certainly. I believe, also, charon, some of your more over-the-tip posts have been removed also, "mate." I tend to think Vietnam might have gone much differently had not Robert Kennedy been killed, but that's something no one can ever know now. I think I have made my point well enough, however, as it seems the best many of you can do in response if hurl vulgarities and insults to my position.

Your comments on patriotism and the Falklands, etc., al, are rather ironic, Jolly Green... To an American it seems Britain wants to hang on to near-useless territories like the Falklands out of a curious stubborn stupidity, a desperate need to retain shreds of long-faded glories, perhaps. Maybe someone needs extra space for sheep to graze, I don't know. I seem to have read somewhere that a Dutch ship first sighted these rocks prior to either UK or Spanish vessels if that is to be a consideration as to who has a greater claim over them. It seems there are some other cold, windswept wastes in the same general area further south which the UK claims, but said claims are not recognized even by ourselves, apparently. From some research I have done myself, it would appear that Spain meant for them to go to Argentina when Argentina became independent. I suppose it is a bitter pill to swallow after one's nation controlled half the world or so for several hundred years, and now primarily has near-worthless places like this left in the kingdom, or occupied places like Northern Ireland (which I suspect most in the US view N. Ireland as) which are nothing but a constant source of trouble you would be better off to be well rid-of. I don't believe anybody in the States during the 1940's was planning on becoming "king of the hill" once the dust settled, but history is fickle as all here should know. Does anybody honestly believe "Uncle" Joe Stalin would have stopped with eastern Europe had the US not been there to counter-balance the Soviets? I think it unlikely (to put it very mildlly) the UK, France, etc., could have held the Soviets back w/o our aid. Thinking otherwise is an exercise in self-deception, Biblio... and I most definitely did not support the Iraq War. Going after Bin laden was an entirely different matter, of course.

Given the debate recently concerning WW 2 and the US's contributions to that, and various other conflicts, there were several US allies in the Vietnam war including the above-mentioned South Korea - Australia and New Zealand contributed troops as well, incurring losses during the war's progression. It seems that troops for South Korea were responsible for a number of the atrocities committed during the war which were unjustly laid at the feet of the US. These facts aren't difficult to research Cat... and others; check into them for yourselves rather than just making wise-acre remarks.

Just heard that former US Senator Rick Santorum has quit the Republican race; down to 8 candidates for them now, I believe. Be 2, 3 more knocked-out next week, I imagine. On some of the people mentioned here, if Bush Sr. expires, it might garner some sympathy votes for Jeb, but he has fallen so far back now, it would be too little, too late, I believe. If he doesn't win a state somewhere in the next two or three weeks, which is quite unlikely at this point, he's just as well to toss his towel in also. If Nancy departs in '16, probably not a huge factor one way or the other, really, at this point. Ronnie has been gone over a decade, now,and her own influence has waned some as time has passed.

Jane Fonda has apologized several times in more recent years for allowing herself to be used for propaganda purposes. by the North Vietnam, Assassin. Regardless of one's feelings about that conflict, it was an incredible case of poor judgement on her part - her, and dad Henry Fonda stayed "on the outs" over it until almost the end of his life, actually. Probably a good idea for her to stay well away from any Vietnam veterans, though, as I'm sure she knows. Just can't get past the idea Americans can be progressives and patriots, can you? Is patriotism that unpopular for Britishers? In any case, for the record, the US - and allies, as there were some, including South Korea, won every major military engagement in the war. President Truman introduced the idea of "limited warfare" in the Korean War, something which simply isn't workable. They could have gone through the north any time had Presidents Johnson or Nixon allowed them to do so. Equally amazing that Britain was able to defeat even Argentina with the attitudes I have seen displayed here. Wow.

Jane Fonda had surgery for breast cancer several years ago, although she does look healthy presently. One cannot always go by looks, of course, if the cliche' will be pardoned. No, I don't think becoming a Starchild counts as dying btw Happy reaper. I would say it definitely goes in the other direction a great deal. Did anyone have Frank Finlay who passed a few days ago? He received some notice here for his roles in films like Lifeforce and the 1970's pair of "Musketeers" films as Porthos, among others.

Well, a 3rd candidate has been eliminated in the US Presidential election, and the 2nd Republican, Senator Rand Paul dropped out today. I think that leaves them with yet 8 or 9, but after New Hampshire next week, some more will fall out. Probably Governor Chris Christie will be one of them, which is too bad in ways. he seems to have more emapthy for people than most conservatives. Just hope Ted Crux doesn't wind up elected somehow; nobody has seen fascism in the US until/unless HE gets into office, for the guy would make Dick Cheney and Co. look like avid progressives. Don't Count Senator Sanders out yet either. he'll win some states, and make Hillary have to earn the nomination, I think.

How, exactly, do you count these guys as murdering m******f*****s "they all are?" I believe all "seals" more or less can draw their origins back to the WW 2 "frogmen,' who are regarded as heroes as much as the others in the States. Haven't you ever heard that war is hell, anyway you look at it, Charon?

Well, Ted Cruz has surprised some people although I think he is much too extreme to win the general US election come November. I think Trump will still be a factor - how much, we'll see. Hillary needs to be careful at the same time; Sanders will win it, and a few other states as well. If she angers his supporters badly enough, they probably simply won't vote for her. There's a chance Sanders will run an Indi campaign also I think, & I fully expect Trump to as well regardless of what he has said in the past. One Republican has dropped out after Iowa, and Democrat Martin o'Malley threw the towel in wisely. One or two more candidates may withdraw before New Hampshire votes on the 9th. A number of the lower tier Republicans will pull out after New Hampshire I fully expect, so it all remains quite interesting. I do suggest those here who think Trump is the fanatic, though, to heck into Cruz more closely, then decide who would be the worst to possibly end up President.

Actually, since Jimmy Carter won Iowa back in 1976, it's been an important state to win - it was the start of the end for Hillary in 2008, remember. If Trump or Sanders do win it, it will be an earthquake in US politics. On Nancy herself, she might well pass on in 2016 - she does look frail. Jolly Green Gnat, yes, Chris Christie is the most moderate of the Republicans running, and seems a fairly-decent sort, but I doubt he gets much farther than the first few states. On people frustrated with the system here, the more likely thing is many voters simply won't vote come November, or else will vote for some 3rd-party independent candidate. Much as I hate to admit it, the Clinton's ties to Wall Street are hardly a huge secret, after all. Chelsea Clinton and Ivanka)or whatever his daughter's name is exactly) Trump are best pals also for the curious - make of that what you will, and u can maybe see why many are so angry at the US political system as it has become. Many US states have the requirement that a Democrat, saym, can only vote for the Demorcratic primary (or whatever) candidates. Independents cannot vote in some state's primaries at all unless some laws have been changed in recent years, which I don't think many have on that.

In discussing lines from nuclear war type films, 'I hope you like Vodka.." from Wargames (1983) although that isn't quite a war film per-se. I daresay, thouygh, Davy Jones, charon, etc, al., that if the US withdraws from NATO someday, and the Bear comes west, the white flag will go up quickly once you see we aren't going to do your fighting for you any longer. Surrendering seems one of the better things the British Army does when faced with a serious challenge, and the Frenchies as well, for that matter. What was it in WW 2 for France? They threw in the towel within 6 weeks or so wasn't it? I' mot sure w/o checking, but I believe Poland held out longer than France did which probably speaks volumes.

That wasn't bad, Assassin - I detest Russian script btw. I know it.s called something else actually, but I forget exactly what. Anyhow, if you have paid much attention to what's going on in the east, the Bear is coming out of hibernation- ask the Urkanians. I think I spelled that wrong, but you get my point. My unpleasantness, Toast? Have you checked any of your own postings. Talk about the being thick-skulled.

Hope your Russian is up-to-date, people. Odds are the day may come when you'll need to learn it if not. Cheers.

I do mean historical revisionism in the neutral sense, Magere- in the States, around the end of the 1980's, history began to be changed a good deal from how it was taught in 1970's back, often to make the US look worse, u see. The phrase "self-hating American' does have some truth to it also, it seems. Hollywood has been a major offender at times also, although much of that from them has been in-re to our War between the States, or whatever one wishes to call it. It goes by several names here depending on what part of the country one is in. Spade, what's this? You think my interests are confined to sci-fi? Hardly, my man, hardly. But as Magaere mentioned, viewpoints and cultre are different over there - here, the only ones who try to say one can't be progressive and a patriot as well ara almost always the far-right types. Given my dad and his brother's participation in WW 2 (two of who were in Europe by the by), I could hardly let charon's remarks pass unchallenged, now could I? The fellow does seem paranoid about the USA at a minimum. I gather that there are treatments and therapies in Europe for such problems which one cannot gain access to in the States, and I do hope he find an more- even keel, shall we say? Really would rather not see the fellow wind up in traction for months, and in the market for facial reconstruction, and so forth, but if he ever says some these things face-to-face to the wrong "yank," that may very well happen.

Well, you did get one thing right - many prefer Trump over Ted Cruz. He's even more fanatical in many ways than Trump is, only doesn't talk as much about it. Was a major force behind that Government shutdown a few years ago, and has extreme positions on just about everything. Far as assassination goes, the last serious effort against any President or Presidential candidate was John Hinckley in 1981, who failed primarily because he didn't research hand guns enough, it would appear. Not that I'm saying having bBsh Sr in office would have been a huge improvement, but perhaps some. Many in the States feel BOTH "mainstream" parties have sold-out the man on the street; that's one big reason Trump and Sanders both are doing well so far. If it winds up with several major candidates running, somebody might slip in without having to top 50%; would depend on the states won, of course,(due to each state having differing electoral votes) and honestly, I think trump could win a number of them an "indi" campaign esp. if he chose smartly in a running mate. From what many say about Michael Bloomberg, he is as big a jerk as Trump or Cruz (if not worse in some respects), but again, keeps his mouth shut most of the time. One thing's for sure; if Trump does win - and another major terror attack just might give him the election - you can expect a much more aggressive US foreign policy, I think. Not necessarily North Korea first, but imagine he'll get around to putting an end to that lunatic in awhile. I don't think anybody truly wants to see them with hydrogen bombs and a way to deliver them, as they are dumb enough to use the things w/o thinking twice about it. I'm sure the welfare of Kim's own people is a really major concern.... I have heard it said that the only reason China hasn't done something about NK is they do like a "buffer zone" between ourselves/SK, and their border directly. In other words, I'm not at all sure China would come to the North's aid this time - there's all the trade and such they do with the US at stake as well, remember.

I would add that no, I wish the atomic bombs hadn't been needed in Japan. Had we had to invade Japan proper, the loss of life would have vastly exceeded what both nuclear attacks resulted in. And yes, I would have rather purely military targets been selected. They no doubt would have fought to the last person. I have seen the hidden weapons in caverns(including some of what few aircraft they had left by then) and such they had ready to use against the invasion force, the instruction leaflets on how to attack US troops, etc., etc. I will point out that said lives saved included the Japanese as well as Americans, and any allies who might have joined the final assault on the Japanese homeland. I know the Australians did fight hard against Japan as well. We weren't out to be the leader of the free world at war's end; history takes unexpected turns sometimes, kid. Check out some US history and accounts of the war for a change - it seems a LOT of historical revisionism has occurred in how the war's history is taught in Europe. I would suggest sources from the early 1980s or before before political correctness and revisonism infected the USA as well.

MorbidKid, young fellow,I'll take your youth into consideration. I didn't actually say charon is retarded; he does seem to have some psychological problems which need to be addressed. The term "retard" is not used very often any longer in the States. Yes, generosity did play a large role in our post-war actions towards Europe, although it seems unappreciated by so many today. I notice you ignored my points about Stalin, or the US Army Rangers. I'll give you a pass on the mature angle given your age.

If I may add some additional comments on Donald Trump. Political Correctness has ran so rampant in the US, many who actually dislike the fellow a good deal, yet are still pleased somebody will say exactly how they fell about matters. I seriously doubt if the Republican establishment will allow him to actually have the nomination even if procedural trickery has to be used to deny it to him at the Republican convention. I also expect he will run a 3rd party bid if this happens, and possibly win. Former NY City Mayor Bloomberg has said he will ALSO run if certain events happen; he can certainly afford to. Trump running 3rd party will probably be enough to get him to run as well. If Hillary angers Senator Sanders' supporters enough, many of them most likely won't vote for HER. I expect she will get the Democratic nomination in the end after a considerable struggle, but Sanders has no reason to withdraw if he loses Iowa. He has many strong supporters, and will almost certainly win several states between now, and this coming summer. Meaning he will have a considerable number of delegates when the convention arrives for the formal nomination. At that point, Hillary further angers or "brushes off" Sanders, he just might be talked into running an "Indie" bid as well.

Before charon began making smart-ass remarks, possibly simply to cause trouble, it seemed we were having a reasonable discussion about WW 2 veterans generally; i would like to return to that if enough here are mature enough to do so. On other points here and there; US Army Rangers are among our best troops and I would match them against anything the UK or EU can put up against them any time. If the term "Ranger" refers to something as unpleasant as you say, too bad. Ours have a long, honorable history. On Sherlock Holmes, the later Rathbone/Bruce movies were moved into the WW 2 years for propaganda purposes. That what I meant when referring to the film Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon. Rathbone's rousing closing speech about how this England(i.e Empire) would endure indefinitely does indeed sound ironic in modern times. On 'The Star-Spangled Banner," an such, well, you "guys" gave it a good try in the early 1800s to retake the "colonies," but it didn't work out - learn to live with it. The "Banner" has inspired millions of others in the centuries since around the world to aspire to freedom, so i hardly see anything to be ashamed of there. In the US, one can easily be a patriot and a progressive; as I believe I mentioned previously, the two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, I have disagreed plenty of times with my government's polices. I would have hoped by now the British populace would understand democracy better, but that seems a somewhat vain hope. And yes, many of us would like to withdraw from NATO and leave Europe to its own defense. You certainly claim to be able to defend yourselves, so why be upset if this eventually occurs? We have many other worthy causes those funds could go to, people. So, then. Are we adult enough to discuss matters further w/o changing high school-level( at best) insults and vulgarities? I hope so.

Charon, I discussed you and some of the moronic comments you have made about the US as I have been somewhat baffled by your ignorance in-general. It was suggested to me that you may well be somewhat mentally unhinged, and this seems likely looking over many of your posts. taking this into consideration, I will attempt to overlook your comments, then, as it appears you're not entirely responsible for yourself, frankly. I suspect you're not terribly intelligent either, so will try and keep both facts in mind. I'm not sure where this photo you posted came from, but in any event what difference does all this make now? I realize the loss of the empire also galls many of you apparently no end, but that was hardly the fault of the US. It's simply how history worked out. Would any of you rather not had the Marshall Plan after the war or the vast amount of aid we have sent to everyone involved post-war? Would anybody rather Stalin had overrun ALL of Europe once the Nazis were defeated? I seriously think not if there's any intelligence on display here at all. Had Truman been the man he should have been, he would have allowed Patton, and the others after his death to have crushed the Soviets and so nobody would have had to worry about them much longer than 1945. Need I remind any one that they declared war on Japan in the final week of the war? Lots of help, "Uncle" Joe. More in a moment.

I think you're confused, charon; the Japanese did the mass "murdering" in China for the vast majority. It's difficult to have murder in wartime, in any event; else we're ALL guilty far as nations go. I hope what's left of the older generations have some appreciation, but it's rather obvious by this point that the only time England (or Europe generally, i.,e France) is interested in the US is when they need us to save your sorry asses, to be blunt. Or for what they can scam off of us. We have been more than generous over the years to Europe, enough so that I again, repeat that i think the US needs to let Europe slide, so to speak. It would be a nice sight to see some of the "royals" like "William the balding" blasted out of the sky in Pakistan or some such place, but in any case, I haven't "lost anything" in the English isles, and certainly won't feel deprived if I never see the place in person even were I to live to be the same age as old Frank Buckles did, 110. I've done mys hare of research on the old empire btw; tying some unfortunate across a cannon and blasting him to bits wasn't a rare thing in former British India - note "former" once again, and other places to keep the natives "in line,' so you morons hardly have any ground to criticize others. So, go screw yourself, and learn The Star-Spangled Banner, fellow.

Jerry Pournelle suggested a 50/50 solution to the disputes between ourselves and the Soviet/Russians in which the world would be split between themselves, and the good ol USA. Maybe leave a "neutral zone" in the mid-east. Depending on who becomes president next year, the notion might be worth reviving. I could live with it, and imagine Putin could go along with a version of it as well. Hell, it's hardly like we need anybody else's approval for our actions, I remind you. It may make good PC political theater, but is hardly anything truly needed. Check out Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon btw; the speech Sherlock gives at the end is extremely ironic now in view of events from '47 onward about the Empire.