RoverAndOut

Gotta love Berlusconi - no report of him fails to involve: a) some health issue b) mention of his football connections and c) a related court case that is currently underway I fully expect him to make another appearance as PM before he dies.

He was a relatively fit 82 year old, who died following complications from heart surgery in August of 2012 - when exactly should Neil Armstrong have been on the list to be a miss?

I'm sure I saw an interview on Newsnight a few days ago with Richard Tice, gobshite former Brexit MEP and newly unelected leader of Reform UK after Nigel decided to take his latest political sabbatical, who grandly insisted that only HE could beat Labour and the Tories should stand aside and allow him an easy victory. Then I saw a woman who voted for Jeremy Corbyn in 2019 but since he left hasn't bothered to learn anything about Keir Starmer, doesn't know anything about him and is open to voting for the Tories this time around, and I had to turn over before I threw something at my television.

I did think that when reading that thread but decided there was little to be gained from raising the issue given who created it. It did seem a bit arbitrary and "one rule for them" though. But I still agree with @Toast that Buzz was doing fine in the Astronauts thread, as quite often when one moonwalker is newsworthy, others are featured in the same article/event.

The Challenger surely? Columbia was almost back.

Just seen this news. Hilarious. I read on Saturday in the 'i' about the PM's announcement he was fine, still in Tanzania, he'd spoken to him this morning regarding state matters etc. except absolutely no photos or video of him. I thought, 'Oh, well that sounds all above board doesn't it? ' Dead 5 days later. Got to love a despot's denial of reality.

Been doing some housekeeping on a few threads and since it's been a month since I updated this (and a busy month at that) and to end the discussion on the fairness of Chris Wilder's sacking, here's the latest update (as always new hits in green): Hits mentioned here (12): Eddie Howe (Bournemouth - mutual consent), Russ Wilcox (Southend - new manager confirmed), Hayden Mullins (Watford - new manager confirmed), Mark Molesley (Weymouth - moved to new club), Sabri Lamouchi (Nottingham Forest - sacked), Garry Monk (Sheffield Wednesday - sacked), Philip Cocu (Derby - sacked), Slaven Bilic (West Ham - sacked), Frank Lampard (Chelsea - sacked), Bradley Quinton (Welling - sacked), Darrell Clarke (Walsall - moved to new club), Chris Wilder (Sheffield United - sacked) Also hits (10): Gerhard Struber (Barnsley - moved to new club), Mark Bowen (Reading - resigned), Mark Kennedy (Macclesfield - resigned), Richie Wellens (Swindon - moved to new club), Stuart McCall (Bradford - sacked), Joey Barton (Fleetwood - sacked), John Askey (Port Vale - sacked), Neil Harris (Cardiff - sacked), Paul Lambert (Ipswich - sacked), Lee Bowyer (Charlton - resigned) Misses (20): Paul Cook (Wigan - resigned), Graham Coughlan (Mansfield - sacked), Michael Jackson (Tranmere - new manager confirmed), John Sheridan (Wigan - moved to new club [technically ineligible for this game though]), Ben Garner (Bristol Rovers - sacked), Sam Ricketts (Shrewsbury - sacked), Phil Parkinson (Sunderland - sacked), David Dunn (Barrow - sacked), Vladimir Ivic (Watford - sacked [ineligible]), Ian Holloway (Grimsby - sacked), Tony Pulis (Sheffield Wednesday - sacked [ineligible]), Jake Buxton (Burton Albion - sacked), Glyn Hodges (AFC Wimbledon - sacked), Jason Tindall (Bournemouth - sacked [ineligible]), Keith Curle (Northampton - sacked), Paul Tisdale (Bristol Rovers - sacked [ineligible]), Dean Holden (Bristol City - sacked), Michael Jolley (Barrow - sacked [ineligible]), Steve Ball (Colchester - sacked), Ross Embleton (Leyton Orient - sacked), Darren Moore (Doncaster - moved to new club), Harry Kewell (Oldham - sacked), Kenny Jackett (Portsmouth - sacked), Aitor Karanka (Birmingham - sacked) Current leaderboard: @RoverAndOut - 12 (Howe, Monk, Mullins, Cocu, Lamouchi, Wilcox, Kennedy, McCall, Bilic, Barton, Lambert, Bowyer) @Great Uncle Bulgaria - 9 (Howe, Mullins, Cocu, Molesley, Askey, Quinton, Clarke, Lambert, Bowyer) @BuffaloPhil - 8 (Cocu, Struber, Lamouchi, Bowen, Wellens, Bilic, Barton, Bowyer) @msc - 6 (Howe, Struber, Lamouchi, Lampard, Lambert, Bowyer) @Miracle Aligner - 5 (Howe, Monk, Harris, Lampard, Wilder) I edged a little closer, but some of my remaining 8 seem a way off leaving, meanwhile Great Uncle Bulgaria has moved above Buffalo Phil with 3 hits to 1 this month - both now approaching double figures and the halfway point. Unlucky misses for msc, who had Aitor Karanka among his subs, and Great Uncle Bulgaria who included Kenny Jackett as his 3rd replacement. Oh, and msc was looking at the wrong part of Glasgow for the sacking so far this season.

This game really is incredible. I was so worried when the hits were flying in in September that my picks were going to prove rubbish for the longevity factor in this, but as GCR says, it just seems to be built into the game that this is the way it goes! 6 people one hit away now, and it could be a James Bond actor, a Eurovision performer or an Astronaut who does it. 8 deaths in the James Bond category since we started just over 6 months ago! It's been a rubbish time for Bond fans: 2 frontline baddies, Bond's wife and the original Bond himself all gone in no time. Finally, while I'm here, a reminder Game 2 finished after 27 months and Game 1 after 18 months. Highest scoring category in Game 1 was House of Lords (10 during gameplay), with no other category scoring above 5 before the game concluded. In Game 2, highest scoring category was Grammy Winners (11), with Dallas Actors close behind with 8. Game 3 is currently just over 6 months old and James Bond Actors is already 8 down. I wonder how much longer we've got with this one...

Definitely looks to have lost some weight. The hamburgers aren't available on tap if you're not President. Who am I kidding? He's probably just dropping a few pounds to be in better shape for 2024.

Allis and Murray gone inside 6 months of each other. Two voices of their sports. I grew up in the last stages of Murray's career, but so many of the sport's most memorable moments are elevated by his commentary. At the end of the day, he was just a fan like the rest of us, getting swept up in the moment through the triumphs and disasters. Rest in Peace, Murray, you've earned it. A consummate professional until the very end. And I'm going to stop now, because I've got a lump in my throat.

Sad loss, updated the master list on the first page. I happened to switch on the start of the final regular episode on Gold a few days ago and it's just a blood bath. Owen, Frank and now Jim gone from the Parish Council, and then back at the Vicar's house up pops Alice. So sad, and shocking they've all fallen so quickly, although I should also remember it's 14 years since the Vicar walked down the aisle with Richard Armitage!

It's not included in the same discussion, which I agree is odd, but it is talked about. Plenty of these former champions with lasting neurological conditions, most notably of course Ali, are clearly linked to their time in the ring. I believe the rationale behind removing the head guards in the amateur boxing at the Olympics was because wearing a helmet in some way increased the power of the impact or something.

Well that's the banker gone, hit and miss whether my other two go - think I may be scuppered by an opera singer.

So, I don't think I'll be watching it - particularly no need to now all the best bits are in the public domain, but there are a few interesting takeaways aside from the headlines: 1. The couple exchanged vows in the presence of the Archbishop of Canterbury in their backyard 3 days before their public wedding. So the taxpayer wasted £32m on a wedding that didn't need to happen. 2. Harry says he had no option but to take up the offers from Netflix and Spotify because the family cut him off financially. Because apparently, what's meant to happen is you step back from royal duties, fly off to live in Hollywood and then the British taxpayer is meant to pay for them to enjoy themselves. At a time when there have been lots of efforts to reduce the number of royals catered for by the public purse, can you imagine the outcry if that had happened? Remember when they first popped over to Canada and the Canadians made it very clear they wouldn't be footing their security bill for any great length of time? 3. Meghan phoned the Queen when Philip went into hospital. Odd thing to do surely - why would her granddaughter-in-law make the call and not her grandson, who as has been discussed before was very close to his grandad? This isn't going to go away. You only have to look at how often the Diana interview with Martin Bashir is trotted out, and she's been dead 20 years. This stuff's dynamite and the papers they so hate will be filled with it tomorrow. I do feel that there's a potential for nuclear war in 5 years or so when the Queen passes. Haz has fallen out with his dad and is at odds with his brother and clearly feels an outsider as the only one of them who won't be King. I don't know how that's going to reconcile itself or how the situation is really going to improve unless he and Meghan split up. But she'll always have her fans now, she's a martyr to the cause now and it's undeniable this is going to do significant damage to the Firm's brand as we enter a critical period in their history.

I wouldn't exactly call 'ticking up' to -14% a ringing endorsement...

1. I'd say the hate isn't directed at Harry and Meghan as such. Certainly not in the first place. She has a pretty messy family history and a family that are all too keen to sell their stories. She's the future daughter-in-law of the King, so the papers lap it up. They love gossip. As has been mentioned in this thread, they also gave glowing coverage of their wedding and the birth of Archie and also favourable coverage of Meghan's attempts at raising the profile of female designers and those from underprivileged backgrounds. Things have turned in the past few months due to the war she's declared on the press. I'm not denying she has a case, and printing the letter she wrote to her father was a dick move, but we saw the same thing with those supporting the Leveson Enquiry - the press are vicious at anyone who attacks them. 2. The Queen remains immensely popular in the UK, particularly in the last 20 years. A lot of hard work has gone in to repairing The Firm's brand post-Diana, and the Golden and Diamond Jubilees, the successful rehabilitation of Camilla and the marriages and babies of the next generation, particular the popularity of Wills and Kate have seemingly ushered in a new respect and patriotism towards the Royal Family, particularly at times when an apolitical unifying figure has been needed following Brexit and Covid. Harry and Meghan attacking the Royal Family and, by extension, the Queen is not a popular move among a great many people in the country. 3. Prince Andrew is clearly a big problem for the Royals for all sorts of reasons. The press have given him a relatively hard time and continue to print stories related to attempts to get him to testify on the record in the States, but they won't perform the same witch hunt on him as they do with certain others. Why not? First, he's an actual royal, blue blood, not married in. Fair to say Diana, Fergie and Meghan got or get more grief than Charles, Andrew and Harry (they also look better in papers). Digging in for dirt and printing rumours about the Queen's son is not a good move if you're aiming to portray yourself as pro-Queen. Second, there's very little new stuff about Andrew and he hasn't been charged with a crime. Until one of those things changes, there's nothing much to say. 4. The Royals have essentially, sensibly, erased Andrew from existence. He hasn't visited Philip, he wasn't mentioned at Christmas and he wasn't even present, as far as the photos are concerned, at his daughter's wedding. I think he was mentioned in passing in the announcement of Eugenie's baby, but only in the phrase 'The Duke and Duchess of York are delighted' or words to that effect. He's been MIA since his car crash interview with Emily Maitlis, which was widely reported as a car crash (a metaphorical one this time). Out of sight, out of mind is clearly the Royals plan for now and the papers are happy to run with that. Until something new appears. EDIT: Or what Ulitzer said more succinctly.

Fun fact: I handed him a spade at one such event. Bit of a bummer when the member of The Firm you've met becomes a persona non grata 15 years later...

According to the latest clip, Oprah wanted to interview her in March 2018 before the wedding but Meghan wasn't allowed to - unlike now. So, she didn't understand what being a royal means. "So, as an adult who lived a really independent life to then go into this construct that is different than I think what people imagine it to be." Only to the American perception of being a Princess, dear. Us in the UK know exactly what it entails. It seems she is truly hell-bent on lifting up the curtain on what life in the Royal Family is really like. Or at least, what her view is. She's talking about being independent and being able to do what she wants - in that case, like @Toast said a little while ago, how on earth can they possibly retain their titles? If they want to be Hollywood celebrities, then off they go, without any royal ties whatsoever (you know, apart from all the familial ones that are going to be incredibly awkward over the next decade: Phil's death, Queen's death, Charles's coronation, William's investiture to name just a few). I suspect sooner or later it will all end in tears and she'll become another failed spouse marrying into the House of Windsor. The bullying reports resurfacing plays into her victimisation narrative, "they're out to get me", rather than Ulitzer's point that the reports were buried to help her and are now being brought out as signs of her true nature. It's an unholy mess, that's likely going to overshadow the Queen's final years and potentially the Royals for the foreseeable, as she becomes the daughter-in-law to the King, and then the sister-in-law to the King (should it last that long). Oh, and here's the BBC story that features the quote I mentioned above: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56293793

Visiting a warzone in the middle of a pandemic. Doesn't sound like he's in too bad health to me...

He'd be treated the same as any other patient: treatment may be available but chances of success have to be weighed up as well as the prospect of an improvement in the quality of life or expectation a reasonable extension of life may be possible. And from what I've heard over the years about Philip, I doubt a Hail Mary procedure at 99 would be his style. Sounds like it was likely relatively routine re-plumbing. On the 1 O'Clock News, I'm sure they suggested that if he was having a new stent put in, he wouldn't need to be under general anaesthetic, it could be done under local anaesthetic? But I'm not in any way medically trained, so don't quote me on that. I think the sign he's both been given surgery (or something similar) and seems to have come out of it ok (early days accepted) are signs that he's not going just yet. Not to mention (contrary to beliefs in here) the total lack of follow-up visits to Charles's last weekend. I suspect he'll get out this time, but I'm not sure I see him going back into hospital next time - it will be managed at Windsor, whether in 3 months, 6 months, a year or more.

I didn't peruse the WHOLE list, just took my examples from 2004-2005. But yes, I would agree that the Artist Formerly Known as Posh Spice is still vaguely in the public consciousness.

I agree the idea is fine, just a bit perplexed by the arbitrary nature of the 'Still somewhat known' names in bold. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind it: I'm familiar with Iyad Allawi (not known) as a key figure after the fall of Saddam, but I've never heard of Joseph Estrada (known - but his thread is 1 page long and hasn't been added to since 2007). Mr T is known but Christian Slater is not? Ted Kennedy's widow is known but Patrick Mower, who's still IN Emmerdale isn't? What am I missing?

More than all those gay people he revelled in dying of AIDS did.

Not sure how that qualifies as "the royals hate the BBC".

It's good to see you draw the line somewhere when it comes to tweets...