RoverAndOut

Apart from, by the very definition, their celebrity.

I don't know whether Trump wants to win again or not - if he didn't, why has he rushed back to the campaign trail so quickly and so frequently? He had a gilt-edged excuse to take a week off but has refused (and it's not a campaign team decision, he does what he likes and they'd probably stand a better chance of winning if he stayed at home). I entirely agree though that if Biden wins he's got a thankless task ahead. Trump has seemingly made it his mission in the past month to discredit any response to the virus and anybody involved in it (Dr Fauci in particular is getting pilloried). That attitude isn't going to go away on November 4th, all his supporters are going to continue ignoring social distancing and masks and will resist any increased restrictions Biden tries to bring in. The FBI have just thwarted a plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan and put her on trial for treason for trying to bring in a state-wide lockdown. Those nutters aren't going to go away just because Biden's elected - if Trump had acted responsibly at any point in this crisis, particularly after contracting Covid himself, the USA would be a lot better off than it is. But of course once he loses, it doesn't matter if the things he did make Biden's life difficult, it'll be his fault if deaths increase and he can't wrestle it back. I agree wholeheartedly with @Toast, the Tories lack of support is not due to the virus but their incompetence. The suggestion they were widely popular is also suspect: they won solely on a Get Brexit Done slogan, helped by a woefully weak Labour party. It got them a majority but as time's gone on they've proven themselves increasingly incompetent and that's not being partisan in the middle of a national crisis. The only reason there's talk of a new national lockdown (and I talk as someone who's in Tier 3 restrictions) is because Test and Trace continues to be a disaster and the public are rapidly losing trust in the government's advice, which changes even more regularly than weekly. They failed to get on top of the virus early enough, they lumbered from one crisis to another, they dismantled the virus response service (Public Health England) and replaced it with a businesswoman with no medical experience, there's no evidence of planning and/or communication (when North East restrictions were imposed last week, one Sunderland MP was informed of the meeting a minute after it started and, having joined, informed the meeting that there were THREE MPs from Sunderland, not just her. In one of the Greater Manchester briefings, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, MP for Wigan, wasn't told it was happening). Lancashire was installed at Tier 2 on Monday and by Thursday we were moving up to Tier 3, despite having been under enhanced restrictions throughout the summer - those Tier 3 restrictions, by the way, are less restrictive in some ways than the ones we had before! Anyway, as you say, none of this is relevant to discussion of Trump. On the final point, it's all well and good saying we're overreacting, but it's impossible to say the long-term threat at this moment in time. The longest somebody has possibly lived post-Covid so far is 10 months, if they caught it in December (let's say a year if the suggestions it emerged slightly earlier are true). The long-term effects of this disease are entirely unknowable, there are some very odd symptoms (sticky blood for instance) that are still being explored. I hope you're right and that in 10 years, we all think we overreacted and that the threat wasn't as bad as it could have been and that we can prepare much better for the next pandemic whenever it comes, but who knows. The consequences are pretty severe any way you cut it. 'Out of an abundance of caution' - has someone told the rest of her family what that means?

Ok, lots to work through here and after a preliminary look, my first thought is that I'm struggling to be sure that any of these three women are the same person! Obviously it's difficult given the time that's passed.to compare the woman on the tv clip with the woman in Australia and the woman on Facebook but they all look quite radically different. The Facebook woman *I think* is now back in the UK (lots of references to Bristol among the friends on the profile, etc.) but how that matters to the story I'm not sure. One loose end I can immediately get rid of though is Patricia Ann Faraday - she's not your woman. On the directors page on Company House, it lists her and 'Peter Faraday' as directors: Peter Faraday married Patricia A Smith in 1994, I've popped the Ancestry marriage record below. It seems too perfect for the Shoalhaven Ann Faraday to be the same one, given that's where they were living and I suppose maybe she did end up working as a school cleaner, but I agree it seems unlikely. John Wren-Lewis is himself an enigma. I'm not sure he was born with that name - there's no one called Wren-Lewis born according to the GRO records. There is a John W Lewis born in Wandsworth in March q. 1923 that looks promising, but it would mean he was 83 not 82 when he died (not beyond the realms of possibility). That said, the record of his death here says he's "John Peter Wren-Lewis", so we may be back to square 1. With them travelling so much, it's difficult to pin down Fiona too - no idea where she was born for a start or when. The reference to her that wiki uses is from an academic paper she wrote referencing a bus journey with John and Fiona in India in 1980. There's no mention of how old Fiona is and also the wording is interesting: 'Sometime in 1980, John Wren-Lewis, my daughter Fiona and I found ourselves on a crowded Indian bus' - note, "my daughter" not "our daughter" - is Fiona not John's? Not sure if that means she was born pre-1970 when they got together (but then how old does that make Ann?!) For what it's worth, the Fiona on the Facebook profile doesn't look (to me) at least nearly 40 - which she'd have to be to have been around in 1980, even as a baby. Anyway, that's my preliminary thoughts - maybe she just became a cleaner in an Australian school who wants her tv coverage restoring..?

I found a reference on Twitter to Cleveland still working as a tribute act in 2015, but the link broke when it was clicked. His absence is odd, but otherwise, there's no evidence he's dead anywhere. Glad to help. I'm leaving Rose Royce to @YoungWillz if he's game - I'm better on the domestic front I reckon. Been looking into Sad Cafe - I assume you're aware Ian Wilson is still performing as Sad Cafe? Absolutely nothing online about a birthday though, which is frustrating. John Stimpson is far more slippery.

Ok, so here is a record that I think is Hugh Paul's death on Ancestry. His wife Julie's Twitter is based in Tyneside and this death is in Tyne and Wear. Puts his birth in 1955 and his death in 2013, a year before that tweet. I don't have access to Scotland's People so can't do any digging there, but copious stalking of Cleveland Jr.'s Facebook page threw up links which led to this page for Howard McLeod. From there, I found this page for Derek Henderson, which contains this photo from 2017: Howard on the left, Cleveland second in (so still alive in 2017?), Derek and Owen Wisdom. Can't add much else since they're Scottish-based. Strange that Cleveland is nowhere to be seen in any pictures on his son's or ex-wife's Facebook pages. He's originally from the Caribbean - wonder if he's gone back?

Goddammit. I saw Herbert Kretzmer's death this morning and thought nothing more of it. I spotted cricketer John Reid's death on here and realised he was probably a hit for people in Game 1 (he was - for you and Deathray) but it turned out it didn't make any difference to who had completed (you had already finished and Deathers still needs a Dr Who death). Never even checked Game 2. You are indeed correct - 4 months after it ended, we have a podium (sorry, @gcreptile). I won (somehow), Toast 2nd, Death Impends 3rd. Interestingly, aside from Rotten Ali who didn't take part in Game 2, the three people tied for second in Game 1 (with the death of John B. Anderson in the US elections category) were the ones who finished on the podium in Game 2. Maybe we have a knack? Time will tell - Game 3's already well underway!

Never needed this before in this game...

Schumacher matched Senna's mark of 41 at Monza, in 2000 which was a big deal (that's when he cried) but the Most Wins record belonged to Alain Prost at 51. He broke that in Belgium in 2002. While it's an impressive total, as is Hamilton's matching (and no doubt significantly bettering) of it, but neither are that surprising in the grand scheme of things. Both have had the benefit of being in significantly superior cars for the majority of their careers (Schumacher's Ferrari team won 6 constructors titles in a row between 1999 and 2004 and Hamilton's Mercedes have won every title since 2014 - even Vettel in joint-4th was with Red Bull, who won every title between 2010 and 2013). This is not unlike many of the top drivers in the past, but I would argue that with rare exceptions (Williams in 92 for example, McLaren in 88) the difference between the top 2 or 3 teams hasn't been as big as it has over the past 2 decades, even though the team winning has changed. The other major factor is the huge increase in reliability, particularly over the past decade but this was evident even in the mid-2000s. How many races did Prost, Senna, Mansell, et al lose because of car failures? Great drivers, consistently in the fastest cars, that rarely break down (Bottas's power unit today being a rare exception - his 4th reliability failure in 4 years at Mercedes - Hamilton's had 1 in that time) are always going to win most of the races. It'll be the same until Mercedes mess up or Hamilton retires and then someone else will likely take up the mantle - Max Verstappen is 23 and has 9 wins - if he gets in a dominant car for long enough he could well challenge Hamilton's eventual record in the future but we'll see. The race behind Hamilton-Bottas-Verstappen this season is thrilling, 6 teams and 11 drivers in a different order every week. And without wishing to be a downer (that ship sailed), Raikkonen's record won't last the test of time either - Alonso's back next year and just a season behind Raikkonen (although that depends when they both finally give it up) but Hamilton's just over 3 seasons behind Raikkonen and potentially got a good few more in him if he stays interested. Verstappen's already a third of the way to Raikkonen at 23! Kimi couldn't care less about the record, but it's impressive nonetheless - the power of being quick and not ruffling any feathers along the way.

Better than "testing his eyesight" at any rate.

Not sure if @Toast's facepalm is because she thinks I think this is an acceptable defence - for the record, I don't and think they both should have resigned, but given it's been mentioned several times in the press that she was one of those calling for his resignation, surely either she was mistaken then or she should resign now. I'm surprised the press haven't skewered her with that yet. She'll face a recall if she refuses to go I'd imagine - more time consuming but the end result would be the same.

Given she's using the 'the virus changes your decision making' defence, I'm surprised no one's asked her the obvious 'gotcha' question yet: "Following your own experiences with the virus, do you believe you were mistaken in criticising Dominic Cummings' behaviour during lockdown?'

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if his treatment had consisted of being exposed to gamma rays and he ripped his suit off and turned into the Incredible Hulk. It would barely make the top 5 'Most Weird Trump Moments' of the past 4 years.

Let me re-phrase: 'so, he's probably not sunning himself on his private yacht harboured just off the coast of tropical island somewhere then'.

Ah, interesting, thanks for that. So, not a company director after all. But still, if it's the right guy - he ended up in Hastings and was still there in 2007. After that, who knows?

Well I did some digging on the others but it's a bit more speculative and without any corroborating evidence it's pretty circumstantial but worth noting: Using Bob Sturt - b. Sept. q. 1949 in Islington, London as a starting point: Martin C. O'Mahony b. March q. 1951 in Shoreditch, London looks promising. If so, he's dead: Martin Christopher O'MAHONY d. Islington, London - July 1990 (aged 39 - DOB. 15th February 1951) Mike Lovatt - there's a Michael D. Lovatt b. Dec. q. 1946 in Islington, London which looks good for the year and area. Michael D. Lovatt married twice: (1) Patricia M. Moon - Dec. q. 1967 in Hastings, Sussex (2) Amanda Stait - March q. 1993 in Hastings and Rother, East Sussex Putting "Michael Lovatt Hastings" brought up this: http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/844577/MICHAEL-LOVATT which says he's a Coach Driver born in December 1946. The company he works for seems to be a property management company though, so not sure where the Coach Driver bit comes in. He was a director between 2002 and 2007 when he 'resigned', which in this case I assume means retired. Butch Osborn is much more difficult. Google suggests Butch is an old term for 'Junior', so if a father and son have the same name, the son will be known as Butch to differentiate. So it's likely he has the same name as his father, but what name that is would be tricky to tie down quickly without any information to narrow it down. Might be nothing to it, I've looked for Facebook profiles for Mike Lovatt without success, and without a picture of the band it's not much use anyway without a specific mention of the record. But as a work in progress it's a start. Bizarre just how forgotten they've been!