RoverAndOut

Newcastle nowhere near high enough for Remain. It's gonna be an Out.

52-48 has been the margin I thought but I've been too nervous to give voice to it. Turnout's huge by the sound of it. Gibraltar at 84%, Newcastle up around 70-75%. That's higher than a general election. Farage quoted as saying he thinks Remain have edged it, but he may be hedging his bets.

Haven't got involved in this thread because I couldn't be arsed with 6 weeks back and forth on the issue. Christ, listening to the campaigns themselves was bad enough. Anyway, I voted Remain, as did the rest of my family (although mum was umming and ahhing up to casting her vote.) Polling station was busier than I've ever seen it. I live in the deprived end of Blackburn, turnout is usually rubbish, but I probably saw in the region of 20 people in the five minutes I was there. Large turnout's supposed to be positive for Remain but I'd be astonished if locally isn't heavily Leave. It will be interesting to see if the rain in the south east has any significant impact. I'd be surprised if it did, mind.

Great result, what a ball from Hoolahan, and so soon after his howler. That said, Italy were shite - no doubt partly due to the 8 changes they made. Have to play a lot better if they want to beat Spain. Hungary-Portugal was great, was looking forward to the little winker being sent home in ignominy (a la Zlatan) but those Hungarians can't defend for toffee. Italy, Spain, Germany, France and England in the same half of the draw. Ouch. On the other side I'll be amazed if it isn't a Belgium-Croatia semi-final. Belgium haven't played well but they don't have much to beat before Croatia (no Wales, just....no...) I do think it's really open so far. Italy looked great v Belgium but then rubbish tonight; Spain started slowly and then threw it away against Croatia; Germany have laboured (quite similar to England really); France are largely relying on Payet and the home support but the pressure could start to tell on them; Belgium have been poor but are still there and Croatia would have looked great but for the kamikaze ending to the Czech match. Wales are enjoying themselves, Poland have some decent players and Portugal haven't a prayer against Croatia unless they somehow tighten up at the back. And then there's Switzerland, Northern Ireland, Slovakia, Iceland, Hungary and Ireland who should have no chance but who knows...got to be in it to win it. Oh, and: Spot on. Ireland is an island in the British Isles but the Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom, while Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. And Scotland are shit at football.

The seat is called Gedling, it's normally semi safe Labour, with the Tory party in an easy second place. It's north east of the Nottingham inner 3 city seats, before it gets rural. It used to be a mining area but now that's becoming a country park. Really being said that its the labour vote that's come down so very hard time for out. In essence this area of the country gets well below its ration of spending by government and euro projects. 2nd rate under used public transport links, and many attempts to remove the oap's bus passes. Still we get free 2 hour parking near our high street shopping. But when the sink estates are suffering twice the national average of unemployment and many others under employed there is no dought that people wish to object to euro money being wasted left right and centre. And latest figures ignoring the 6% undecided are standing at 72.5% Vote Leave, 27.5% RemaIN. All that makes sense, but I'm afraid if they think that leaving the EU will lead to that money coming their way they're sorely mistaken. The cause of their problems is government policy not EU policy. We're the 5th largest economy in the world (as the Leavers keep saying) so there's plenty of wealth in the country, the fact it's all concentrated in the south-east pisses us all off. Still, at least we'll all be satisfied when we can royally castigate Prime Minister Johnson and Chancellor Gove instead of those faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. It's going to be a tense night tomorrow... Are you counting Ali?

It is anyones game.Every candidate is bloody brilliant in terms of extreme old age serious illness or both.Would not at all be surprised if 10 go before the 21st.Maybe the one who finishes last should get given something horrible like a kick up the arse by Maryport.Would drag the competition out a little longer It will be more than 8.Granger Worrell Renouf Langhorne Kincaid and Booth will all be dead within 6 months at most.As for the others none of them look like they have a year in them.I reckon there will be about 5 survivors next year including Zsa Zsa. While I have no doubt there are some sure fire hits on the list, you'll forgive me for lacking a certain amount of confidence in your certainty Shaun, given your previous prediction as the game began...

So there we have it: 19 survivors of the inaugural Midsummer Madness. I'm astonished so many have made it and, with all due respect to our esteemed champion Spade, even he picked possibly the least famous person imaginable in order to win. Do we ignore this thread now until next summer or do we merrily tick off our contenders one-by-one (assuming of course that at least SOME of the 19 don't make it to the starting line next year) as the year goes by? Or do we have a game to see how many go between now and next June? Think I'd go with....8 more deaths before next year. Just don't ask me which 8.

Having finally got round to looking into this, I'm taking Hades up on his offer and co-opting a few of his names, largely since when I was looking at who else had been chosen 3 of his names had popped into my head before I got to his list. Some of them were really tough to find anybody, and I'm sure there's a few on my list who won't get the QO (I think a few other players may suffer the same fate) but fingers crossed someone else goes first. Assuming there are no objections, my picks are: 1920 - Henry Heimlich, Marsie Taylor 1921 - John Glenn, Hazel McCallion 1922 - Steven Hill, Rachel Robinson 1923 - Vic Seixas, Valentina Cortese 1924 - William Russell, Cicely Tyson 1925 - David Graham, Cara Williams 1926 - Mel Brooks, Jean Alexander 1927 - Harry Belafonte, Gina Lollobrigida 1928 - Joe Jackson, Jean Kennedy Smith 1929 - Max von Sydow, June Squibb

Bit of both, actually. BTW, the next new one, "Star Trek: Beyond" is due to be released in a month's time. It has had virtually no marketing so far apart from two trailers (one dreadful, one very generic and bland) which has led to some rumours that it is possibly even more terrible than the last two. Apparently, though, Chekov is going to have a bigger role in the film as he is supposedly paired with Kirk throughout most of the running time. The actor's death might drive up ticket sales a la Ledger and the Dark Knight. If so, it might just save an allegedly troubled production! I've seen a trailer at the cinema the other week. I have a horrible feeling that - continuing their shameless ripping off of their predecessors - this film looks suspiciously like there'd be a case for blowing up the (original) Enterprise due to hostile boarding. Where have I seen that before...? Oh, that's right, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Remind me again, what number film is this in the new series? And following on neatly from the word-for-word remake of The Wrath of Khan too, how convenient... I've been forced to see the first two by a friend who swears they're 'not that bad' but is not a Trekkie like myself. I sighed my way through the entirety of Into Darkness, and even quoted a few of the lines myself before they came up, it was so pathetic. I was wondering how this death screws up their plans. Methinks they'll re-cast, I can't see that they'll just write out the Russki.

While they've not formally been included in this thread yet (probably due to their age rather than the sacrilegious shitness of their movies), and while I know it has been noted elsewhere in this forum, this seems the most obvious place to note the death of Anton Yelchin, a.k.a. Chekhov in the New Trek films. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36572649 Who would have guessed Walter Koenig would outlive his replacement? Any takers for Nichelle Nichols over Zoe Saldana, Shatner over Chris Pine or George Takei over John Cho?

Point taken Maryport but I guess I meant it was always a possibility with the IRA. Some of their attacks - particularly Brighton - were audacious and shocking but we knew what we were dealing with. There was also the mortar attack on Downing Street of course. And when I said regular, I guess I was more thinking of the bombings - Enniskillen, Omagh, Manchester, Warrington, etc. and including those in my thoughts too. But yeah, as a politician in the 70s and 80s, especially if you were dealing with Northern Ireland or had close links with the PM, you knew you were potentially in the crosshairs. I think the idea of a lone nutter coming up to an MP on the street and stabbing and/or shooting them has always seemed a step too far for contemplation. This has shattered that belief.

Obvious Zyklon is obvious. But that doesn't negate some of his points...... At your age I thought all MPs were legitimate targets. This might have totally different reasons for it, but cry me a river, I ain't mellowed that much. Two young weans, she should've been at home. While there may be some argument to be made for those at the extremes of society (and even then we're on very thorny ground), I don't think I can accept that being an MP somehow means someone's entitled to try to kill you. Furthermore, I'm not sure what the final part of your argument means. Anyone who's a mother to small children shouldn't work? Or that they shouldn't work as an MP? Either way, the idea that these two young kids should grow up to blame their mother for taking a 'dangerous' job as a lawmaker seems somewhat ludicrous. And the argument that 'that's the world we live in' won't work: we shouldn't accept that that's the world we live in.

For a day at least. Those f***ers will be back to pollute the airwaves with bile-infested verbal shite for another week, though I did wonder today what this all means for the EU referendum. Personally I'm all for putting it off. I know they won't, and it would cause political and economic turmoil but what's the alternative? Take the weekend to come to terms with the death of a colleague and then everyone back here bright and early Monday morning to spend a week kicking shit out of each other over stuff nobody understands anyway? Given David Icke and other wackos are already running with her death being a fake designed to affect the result of the referendum by convincing more people to vote to remain - it'll be interesting to see if it does actually effect the polls. At the point we stopped "ripping shit" out of each other, my canvassing return was standing at 70% Vote Leave, 30% RemaIN. No doubt nutters like David Icke will have hold of the wrong end of the stick, but unfortunately I must say at least he has hold of the correct stick. Tensions all round have been rising. Yesterday's murder of Jo Cox very well could have been a consiquence of disperate party politics affecting people's minds. It could so eailly have been Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage or Michael Gove that were shot by a left wing nutter who saw the referendum as some sort of a right wing Tory take over or racist plot. I've read madness postings that point to Britain and Europe being targeted as some sort of Halibut take over plot in the medium term by EU free movement and higher birth rates. Both sides are to blame for the outcome yesterday. For the RemaIN side I must say lots of people have the opinion that lies are being told to the public. Cameron and Osborne are often called out as cases in point to me. They really need to shoulder some of that blame, and reflect on their utterances about the "Chicken Little" like statements about the sky falling in on everyone. No one likes lies and some people take real offence. Offence to the point of murder was always possible. I had forseen violence of the people in mass riot, after a result in favour of a RemaIN win due to them fixing it behind the scenes. By the sounds of it, nutters like Icke are already adding 2 and 2 together and getting 22. They see it as the precursor to explain away any result in favour of a RemaIN win as being a perfect cover story of a simple sympathy vote that has swung at least enough votes to land it without any further explanation necessarily required. And in some ways it very well could be. However that's very far fetched, but again to these people who take everything too personally and too literally, those in power just look at the bad news as being just too tasty to past over in the round. All I can say is, it's very sad all round. Out of interest Ali where are you canvassing? Because unlike in Scotland, where the Independence referendum results were pretty uniform apart from a couple of nationalist pockets, I have a feeling this EU one could have wildly different results in different areas. It could swing back and forth. As for the level of debate during this referendum, I couldn't agree more that it has been nothing short of disgraceful. To say at the start of this year everyone was sitting on the fence about whether they'd vote to stay or leave, they all suddenly seem terribly sure about the validity of their opinion. Cameron was up for possibly leaving but now it will cause World War Three. Boris was so unsure of his decision he supposedly wrote Op-Ed pieces for the following day's papers supporting both Remain and Leave so he was prepared regardless of what he decided that day. Suddenly the EU is akin to Hitler and the Third Reich. There is no way we should be having this referendum: I'm not even sure the politicians understand the full ins and outs of our relationship with Europe so god knows how the average voter is meant to understand it all. I was hoping, however, that if we were to have this referendum, at least it would serve the same purpose in England that the Independence referendum had in Scotland: that it would engage people in the political process; that it could encourage people to seek out informed arguments and discuss policy around the kitchen table. The benefits of immigration to the economy and our culture against the strain on public services and community cohesion; the question of whether entry to the single market was more important than absolute parliamentary sovereignty at Westminster; a discussion on the future of the EU and the positive impact our membership can have against a vision of an independent Britain and its relationship with the world. Instead what have we got? Uncontrolled immigration is ruining this country and a figure of how much we send to the EU that is, at best, wildly misleading and, at worst, a downright lie. From the other side, we have no acknowledgment of the impact of immigration, no counter argument to the 'country's gone to shit' brigade and suggestions of armageddon if we leave. Both sides started out with the realisation that their base arguments were their best arguments: that we would be poorer if we left and that ordinary people don't like/understand immigration, and as a result that's where the debate has been had: by hammering both arguments out to further and further extremes. Farage's poster yesterday was a bloody disgrace and played on the very fears people have that simply aren't true. Now my hope is that Jo's death will lead to a civilised final week of campaigning, but I think we all know that won't happen. It can't happen. The polls are too close for them to give an inch, they have to scare people into voting the way they want and the only way to do that is to talk up every possible doomsday scenario for their own argument. What I will say is I think it's premature to say that there is blame attached to the campaigns for Jo's murder. My initial instinct was the same, and there's no doubt that the atmosphere has become incredibly toxic and it is quite incredible that we've got to within a week of the referendum without any significant civil unrest. But the fact remains that his motives are still a mystery, they're pursuing lines of enquiry (yes some include far right tendencies, but so far as I've seen nothing from this millennium) and it appears the shout of Britain First may have been somebody stirring up trouble that wasn't there. Also, her role in the campaign has hardly been significant. The are plenty more prominent Remainers and Brexiteers if he wanted to make a political statement. Yes, she took part in the flotilla war between Geldof and Farage the other day, but it's not as if she did anything there that made her newsworthy: the first time anybody knew about her was when her body was lying in the street covered in blood. Once more, we'll know better once the investigations are complete - almost certainly after Thursday. If it has an impact on the result, I think it will swing a few more undecideds towards staying rather than leaving, but how big a difference it makes will be one for the psephologists when all's said and done. One final thought (and trying to bring this back towards the actual subject): when will the funeral be held? Presumably there will need to be some kind of post mortem, but my thinking was if the funeral was next week (when presumably many politicians will attend) then that further impacts on the referendum. I'm assuming the funeral would be the week after, but we return to the civility argument. It has definitely rocked Westminster in a way I've never seen before (I'm too young to remember the IRA blowing up politicians on a regular basis) and I genuinely think it's had a profound effect on a lot of them. The reaction of the Labour team has been incredible: they are genuinely heartbroken and all the suggestions from prominent media figures on the BBC, etc. is that this was something they all feared would happen sooner or later, and sadly it seems to have happened to one of the best of them. I just can't see the detente lasting the week: the stakes are too high. But the fact that I say that - and so many others say that - is a damning indictment on our current political situation.

For the record, for my part, as I said earlier in this discussion, personally I wouldn't have said anything. The jokes didn't land for me, but for some they may. This forum embraces all types and we all bring something to the party. I may think to myself something was inappropriate or unnecessary but that's for those reading to decide, not for me to proclaim.

Apologies Handrejka, my comment wasn't even slightly aimed at you, I saw your comment and your apology. It was aimed at Zorders' suggestion that Mr Cox was somehow making hay where Mrs Timms had not, as if this meant anything. I liked the fact that Cat had accepted Willz' challenge to find a gif appropriate to his comment and succeeded, nothing more. I liked none of the Cox jokes, and if you read my post in the by-election bingo thread I made a point of saying I was pleased that her death has scored nobody any points in that particular sideshow. Morbidkid, I like things that engage me enough to make me want to like them, I don't just like anything that vaguely 'supports' my argument, which in this instance is simply that a young woman has been brutally murdered and it's pointless to speculate on motives and responses without the facts. The media will speculate because that's what they do. The politicians are united in grief tonight, and it's not very often we can say that. Hopefully some good can somehow come out of this further down the line. And for future reference, I'm male. Thanks. I hadn't seen Dr Z's post and assumed (there I go again) that it was me. I just saw your post in the by-election bingo thread and I agree with every word. I've seen an awful lot of crap on social media, the most worrying being normal everyday people who seem to be frothing at the mouth in delight that the killer is a white man with links to right wing groups just so they can say how bad Britain First is and they forget that a person has died. I've seen crap from the other side too of course. Fair enough re the like. Yeah, there's plenty of unintelligible bile to go round. I'll admit when it first happened, I hoped the attacker wasn't Halibut as it just played into the hands of that brigade, especially so soon after Orlando. The fact he's white doesn't mean he's a neo nazi or anything, chances are he's got mental issues and latched on to those ideas as a 'purpose', as with most of these people regardless of creed, colour or religion. The point is nobody knows anything so speculating at all is just fairly pointless right now. Maybe it was the kind of joke that could have waited a bit longer, maybe until she was actually buried? What he said. I'm fully aware black humour comes with the territory but the poor lass died in a brutal way less than 12 hours ago. I caught this relatively early on and saw the press conference live where the chief constable confirmed that - far from being in critical condition - she was dead, and I'm not ashamed to say tears came to my eyes. Death is a part of life, but some death is more shocking, more sudden and more unpleasant than others. Personally, I'll never tell anyone off for a joke, each to their own, but I guess it's just a case of reading the general mood. You can tell it's struck a chord when even deathlisters are pretty sombre.

For a day at least. Those f***ers will be back to pollute the airwaves with bile-infested verbal shite for another week, though I did wonder today what this all means for the EU referendum. Personally I'm all for putting it off. I know they won't, and it would cause political and economic turmoil but what's the alternative? Take the weekend to come to terms with the death of a colleague and then everyone back here bright and early Monday morning to spend a week kicking shit out of each other over stuff nobody understands anyway?

When a Halibut kills someone its not all Halibuts and islam is not to blame we mustn't control islam when someone goes nuts with a gun its all gun owners and the gun is to blame we must control all guns You're 100% right about validation maria eagle already using this as political ammo on twitter. I have a feeling we will be seeing alot of this in the future , there is no justification in attacking innocent people like in Florida or anywhere else but people really hate MP's and they effect people's lives big time. If a disabled person attacked and killed IDS because his benefits were stopped would any of us really condemn him ? I can see either Halibuts attacking MP's for supporting certain wars or right wingers attacking MP's who they feel have turned their back on the UK like with today's attack. Wasn't another MP not long ago stabbed with a knife by a person in a burka? Don't remember that getting the same coverage as this. That was Labour MP Stephen Timms in Newham. stabbed by one of his own constituents in the batshit London borough of Newham. And that was in 2010 FFS, I can't imagine how scary that place is now. No it didn't get nearly the coverage, obviously because of who did it. Don't remember his wife ever saying "WE HAVE TO STAMP OUT THE HATE THAT CAUSED THIS!!??!?!?"?"?!2" So scary that he's still the local MP and hasn't had any such incidents since.He was wounded, had surgery and survived. It got the appropriate level of coverage and the attacker was jailed. He was not shot in broad daylight and left in a pool of blood and, furthermore, he was not killed in the attack. As for suggesting the reactions of spouses are anything to go by...just don't. The guy lost the love of his life and somehow has to explain to two kids under 5 why mummy isn't coming home tonight, or ever again. Politics are the furthest thing from his mind right now. I made a mistake which I admitted to. I could have deleted it but I think it proves the danger of jumping to conclusions so should stay. A woman has died in appalling way and a family has been shattered, and that is more or less all we know at the moment. Using it as an excuse to stick it to a user you don't know but have probably never liked is pretty low Just because some people are more measured in their language it doesn't make them better than Dr Z. Everyone using this to score points is as bad as each other. As are the "Tee hee her name sounds a bit like cocks" comments in the By-election Bingo thread. please zorders started this all and is the one trampling on her grave I don't know why you are getting upset at Rover when he is defending her honour. Also could you like my previous arguments on this issue please. Your trolling for likes is even lower than people trying to score points. I wasn't getting upset at Rover. I quoted him/her* because he he/she mentioned my post. I don't think any side has the moral victory here. How can they when a senseless death has been involved. Though I have to say that I would have more sympathy with Rover if s/he hadn't liked the "cock" post and I'd probably have more sympathy with Dr Z if he didn't use such lame nicknames in his posts. *I don't know whether Rover is male or female. Sorry. Apologies Handrejka, my comment wasn't even slightly aimed at you, I saw your comment and your apology. It was aimed at Zorders' suggestion that Mr Cox was somehow making hay where Mrs Timms had not, as if this meant anything. I liked the fact that Cat had accepted Willz' challenge to find a gif appropriate to his comment and succeeded, nothing more. I liked none of the Cox jokes, and if you read my post in the by-election bingo thread I made a point of saying I was pleased that her death has scored nobody any points in that particular sideshow. Morbidkid, I like things that engage me enough to make me want to like them, I don't just like anything that vaguely 'supports' my argument, which in this instance is simply that a young woman has been brutally murdered and it's pointless to speculate on motives and responses without the facts. The media will speculate because that's what they do. The politicians are united in grief tonight, and it's not very often we can say that. Hopefully some good can somehow come out of this further down the line. And for future reference, I'm male.

When a Halibut kills someone its not all Halibuts and islam is not to blame we mustn't control islam when someone goes nuts with a gun its all gun owners and the gun is to blame we must control all guns You're 100% right about validation maria eagle already using this as political ammo on twitter. I have a feeling we will be seeing alot of this in the future , there is no justification in attacking innocent people like in Florida or anywhere else but people really hate MP's and they effect people's lives big time. If a disabled person attacked and killed IDS because his benefits were stopped would any of us really condemn him ? I can see either Halibuts attacking MP's for supporting certain wars or right wingers attacking MP's who they feel have turned their back on the UK like with today's attack. Wasn't another MP not long ago stabbed with a knife by a person in a burka? Don't remember that getting the same coverage as this. That was Labour MP Stephen Timms in Newham. stabbed by one of his own constituents in the batshit London borough of Newham. And that was in 2010 FFS, I can't imagine how scary that place is now. No it didn't get nearly the coverage, obviously because of who did it. Don't remember his wife ever saying "WE HAVE TO STAMP OUT THE HATE THAT CAUSED THIS!!??!?!?"?"?!2" So scary that he's still the local MP and hasn't had any such incidents since. He was wounded, had surgery and survived. It got the appropriate level of coverage and the attacker was jailed. He was not shot in broad daylight and left in a pool of blood and, furthermore, he was not killed in the attack. As for suggesting the reactions of spouses are anything to go by...just don't. The guy lost the love of his life and somehow has to explain to two kids under 5 why mummy isn't coming home tonight, or ever again. Politics are the furthest thing from his mind right now.

Corry plays for my team, Blackburn. His performances in a blue and white shirt are not so worth seeing, although he has his moments.

"Handmade" weapon, eh. If only every American with an assault rifle were reduced to those means Just imagine. The reason this is so shocking is it's so rare. Absolute tragedy for her young family, so senseless. Think I'm pretty glad nobody's getting points for this one in all honesty.

..........but its the Huffington Post. Yes, something millions of people read and take seriously every day? At the risk of getting arrested (like everything I say in what is essentially a Sharia state, the UK) why did she live on a barge in London when she could have lived in the "culturally enriched" constituency she represented? Presumably it was so she could send her kids to posh schools that wouldn't have too many refugee's/migrant's kids in them? Because she wanted diversity for us but not for her? I'm guessing that's it. Make no mistake, I'm as outraged about her death as the delightfully intellectual and progressive "pro-Islam" squad on Deathlist are about how sadistic and pointlessly abusive my mother was to me when was a defenseless child! So nobody should be jumping to conclusions about her death and making wild accusations without the facts but it's ok for you to decide that Jo Cox was an elitist with no understanding of the area she represented? She was born in Batley, moved to London for work, worked for Oxfam in a variety of the world's bleakest places and then became an MP a year ago believing, presumably, that having a voice in parliament would further the causes she believes in. She represented the community she grew up in, was well liked locally, seen as a hard worker and a rising star in parliament. She lived on a boat (a really posh lifestyle - all that luxury!) in London, probably since most of her work is still done in London. And when she was shot, she was standing outside the library in the centre of the constituency she represented, having spent the morning listening to the concerns and queries of her constituents. Anything about the attack, its motives and its implications is simply rumour and hearsay right now. Her death is a heartbreaking and unwarranted tragedy. Grow up and shut up.

Pretty sure whenever there's an attack like this in Britain it's front page news, regardless of the victim or the perpetrator's motive. We have very little information just now about anything so jumping to conclusions is pointless and divisive. If what you say is true, then I imagine instead of being a right wing ideologue, he's probably mentally disturbed, as one might hope we could all agree anyone who goes out in the street and attacks someone they don't know must surely be, whether they're white or Asian, Christian, Halibut, atheist. There's no need for anyone to make hay out of this, whether she survives this or not. LOL. Oh okay, so you'll be condemning Obama and Shrillary when they falsely blame Trump for this? No I don't think so. The people who were calling for "restraint" after 50 gay clubbers died, 130 rock fans died, etc. etc. etc. will be exercising ABSOLUTELY NONE when some no-name Labourdork gets killed. Their usual "restraint" is about cowardice in the face of Islam. No need to be cowards about anti-Islam campaigners, just round em all up and put them in the gulag! I expect Trump and possibly, I dunno, Pamela Geller, to be in federal custody by midnight and possibly extradited to England for IslamoStalinist show trials by next week. If any of that happens feel free to say I told you so. But frankly I don't think Brits could give two shits what the American presidential candidates have to say on this, and I'd suggest they have more important issues with each other than to argue over the shooting of a British MP. Who exactly are we going to put in this gulag? All the white people? All the neo nazis? Anyone who's ever flirted with UKIP? Talk some sense. Keep Calm and Carry On, that's the British way. I started writing this before I got to the bottom of your response. Silly me. Yawn. Clearly you're not for real.

Pretty sure whenever there's an attack like this in Britain it's front page news, regardless of the victim or the perpetrator's motive. We have very little information just now about anything so jumping to conclusions is pointless and divisive. If what you say is true, then I imagine instead of being a right wing ideologue, he's probably mentally disturbed, as one might hope we could all agree anyone who goes out in the street and attacks someone they don't know must surely be, whether they're white or Asian, Christian, Halibut, atheist. There's no need for anyone to make hay out of this, whether she survives this or not.

Like I said, haven't watched it, nor do I plan to. It just seems that everyone's keen on the guilty until proven innocent idea. And with a dead man, it's rarely even contestable. I'm not saying he's innocent, in fact it looks likely from the brief amount I've seen that he's probably got a case to answer, but can you imagine that front page of the Mail for a live person? Or even - somewhat cynically - for an accused Tory (again, Lord Bramall, Ted Heath). This fits nicely into the Mail's thread on dodgy Lib Dems (Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe) so naturally they took the 'brave' decision to make it front page news. As for the widow apologising, yeah that's definitely fishy, but playing devil's advocate what legal recourse or personal will has an 89 year-old woman got to fight the machine? Anyway, it's just another part of history that can be airbrushed. Maybe it would be quicker just to leave the history books blank in terms of light entertainment and politics between 1950 and 1990 and pretend they never happened. I think I'll lose all faith in humanity if it turns out Nicholas Parsons is dodgy, though at least the tabloids won't have to search far for a picture linking him to that shadowy world: he and Freud were long-time colleagues on Just a Minute of course. Yeah, this is definitely the break in the case they've been looking for. Ive been pretty quick to condemn the witch hunts that have been carried out in the name of 'Justice' Ive previously stated that Tarbuck was put through the mill on the back of a shit allegation and, in all probability, Sircliff may well find, after being dragged into the gutter, that the CPS wont be allowing the Police to charge him. Ive also been preety unambiguous in my dislike for trial by Press/Media and the whole circus that pushes the famous into the Ring yet allows the accusers to hide, forever, behind the curtain. We all know, such has been the biggest sexual scandal of several generations, the whole emphasis has changed to Guilty until proven innocent. Having said all of that, as much as im uncomfortable with the kind of headlines that has seen Freud 'outed' you have to be VERY generous to believe that the allegations are weak let alone untrue. Disclosure has just started on the TV, Im watching it, if you don't, you cant have an opinion. Accepted.