En Passant

And another D word. Daft. Jogging on a raliway line, yeah right, pass me those chainsaws, I fancy myself a juggler.

Money talks. Probably the most shocking thing is that there was a third person in the house that night, but someone ensured that he did not give evidence and he was only mentioned fleetingly in the trial. Of this, there is no doubt. It's been like that since the start of this sick joke of a case. Nothing much in single person trials has reeked as badly judicially speaking since OJ. The desperate struggle for justice over Hillsborough is up there for this country in my view, but that's not a single person homicide trial. Again afaik, in this country money might prevent you being found guilty when you are, the ability to buy better legal representation, knowing the system you are part of and so on, however it will not change the result once you are found guilty. For murder, it's life and that's that aside from the minimum recommendation. All I can assume is that in SA this is not the case, the money continues to talk after the verdict.

I know it's the sentencing guidelines (or would be here and probably is in SA also) and that many of us think they are sometimes a bit odd or at the very least at variance with popular opinion. But how is it 5 years for manslaughter and yet only 6 for murder? Here murder is mandatory life afaik, only the minimum term can be changed by the judge. I don't know anyone who thinks his tale had a shred of truth, he knew it was her and meant to kill her. But that's irrelevant now as he's been found guilty of her murder. 6 years? I really don't get it.

If the majority of politicians believe, as they keep telling us, that immigration is a 'good thing', what's the problem? The bulk of MP's don't want to leave the EU (even some who pretended they did), so they abide by the peoples narrow vote to leave, but get to keep the free trade and are forced to 'reluctantly' accept the open borders. so it ends up pretty much 'as you were'. I need a copy of Politics for Dummies I think.

Work harder? 40 hours a week picking vegetables (or care home work or hotels at all hours) on a minimum wage (or illegally, less) on zero guaranteed hours, sounds quite hard enough to me. Add in the fact that this will never, ever, buy you a roof over your head in this country and it's hardly such a stretch that such folk voted for change, any change. Care home work, Hotel workers, none of this is money for old rope. If it's really the case that such employers cannot afford to pay more, then the cost for those services must go up until they can. Most people staying in a hotel can afford it, else they'd stay home, it's hardly essential for somebody who lives in a house to transplant themselves elsewhere for a holiday when others cannot afford a house no matter how they try. Tell them they are doing this work to pay the pensions of the people who had the unionised jobs in days gone by that are living in the houses they can never afford themselves and see if that sways them back to voting in. Anyway, I digress. Perhaps it's naive to expect to find this information published. However expressing shock that people voted out when they couldn't find any evidence of how yet more legal immigration from voting in benefited them is also naive. All of England bar London did so. Incidentally, I walked past a couple of car sales forecourts yesterday, selling rows upon rows of cars that were north of 100k, second hand. This of course isn't news, but if you have no prospect of affording housing or from your comment in some cases even food as a resident of this nation you have a right in my view to be a bit choked at the status quo.

And Woy resigns even faster than Cameron. Though after that it's probably not a surprise.

I am not a football expert but when they finished second in the group and the luck of the draw got us Iceland I thought maybe that was quite cunning. There are only 300,000 of them, how can the manage to field 12 decent players. What is wrong with us? Its not over yet though...... Ah that's why, they are playing with one more than us, it's handicapped.

England doing their level best to beat the politicians by being first out of Europe. .

That's not exactly what I meant. Let's play hypotheticals. Suppose you are unemployed and in, oh I don't know, lets pick a rural area that voted out, hm, Lincolnshire or somewhere like it. What could you do for a job, how much would it pay? Lets pick, for arguments sakes, picking vegetables, after all it's an agricultural area. The question is, are you more likely to be able to find a job doing this with or without immigration as set by the EU? If you can find a job, is the pay less because a lot of lets say Poles are over here living 15 to a room and sending half the money home? Because for them, it's still better than what they could do in Poland? And if, as the government and everyone bar that slimy creep Farage keeps telling us, immigration is good for us, how does that work? As this hypothetical would be Lincolnshire vegetable picker, I can see how immigration might be good for the farmer, or for other employers, the labour is more plentiful and thus cheaper. As a prospective worker who wasn't born with a farm or indeed with a family steel mill or car plant of dockyard I fail to see how it's of any benefit to me. Please enlighten me so I can vote to stay. I'm not saying I subscribe to any of that (or indeed that I don't), and I have not one thing against Poles before anyone starts. But I'll wager it's something that has caused a few votes one way or the other, and whilst I haven't read all of that site (or indeed very much of it to be honest, it's moot now anyway) I suspect it is not a question it answers. Nor could I find anywhere that did. Maybe that's because I'm hopeless at searching, or maybe it's because there is nothing to find. It's just an example, an out loud hypothesis if you will.

To be fair general elections and local council elections have never been truly democratic so an actually democratic vote is a shock to the system for many. There is an Isaac Asimov short story where the democratic system has evolved so that one person goes into a booth with a computer and asks him lots of questions and then decides who should be running the country. Probably an early idea on his way to Psychohistory but at the GE I did one of those policy questionaires and found that I was voting closest to my policy beliefs. Isn't it the electorates duty to educate themselves enough to make an informed decision. That may well be the case in principle. But on the subject of Europe, where was this information? I had a damn good look around, all I found was an interminable supply of polemic from each side. Practically zero in the way of unbiased facts.

Sorry. They're a plucky bunch, and should've scored one, maybe two, but they really couldn't defend, especially once they pushed up for the equaliser. Makes me feel better that when England inevitably lose to France there's a far better chance now that Wales won't make the semis either... Football is not really my thing, but once every couple of years I can rustle up enough enthusiasm to watch the national team. Sufficient to know that we always go out to Germany, often on penalties. If one follows this (ludicrous, I know) logic, we have to beat France just to go out to Germany (on pens)

Given London has about twice the population of Scotland, depending on exactly where one draws the line around it. It's an interesting point .

Don't you start. Makes it look like the turnout would have been 100% if the options had been stay or leave UEFA.

Hahaha. And her vote counts exactly the same as anyone else. Always on the proviso that anyone that dim could actually find the polling station.

Not the sharpest tool in the box then. Mug a cop for a gun? It's the USA for gawds sakes, he could almost get one free with a box of cereal if he cut out the coupons or something.

Brings a whole new meaning to "That was the shittiest holiday I've ever been on".

Michael Foot Edit, oh and if mis-spelling is allowed, Doris Hare.

Then make an effort to make that clear. In using my post as a quoting point, it wasn't. I am over myself thanks all the same.

I can laugh or not laugh at what I please, so can anyone else. I can find what I want distasteful, others can likewise determine for themselves. The part I object to, is people attempting to impress their values on others. To paraphrase that old quote:- I may not agree with what you say, but I defend absolutely your right to say it.

Apologies Handrejka, my comment wasn't even slightly aimed at you, I saw your comment and your apology. It was aimed at Zorders' suggestion that Mr Cox was somehow making hay where Mrs Timms had not, as if this meant anything. I liked the fact that Cat had accepted Willz' challenge to find a gif appropriate to his comment and succeeded, nothing more. I liked none of the Cox jokes, and if you read my post in the by-election bingo thread I made a point of saying I was pleased that her death has scored nobody any points in that particular sideshow. Morbidkid, I like things that engage me enough to make me want to like them, I don't just like anything that vaguely 'supports' my argument, which in this instance is simply that a young woman has been brutally murdered and it's pointless to speculate on motives and responses without the facts. The media will speculate because that's what they do. The politicians are united in grief tonight, and it's not very often we can say that. Hopefully some good can somehow come out of this further down the line. And for future reference, I'm male. Thanks. I hadn't seen Dr Z's post and assumed (there I go again) that it was me. I just saw your post in the by-election bingo thread and I agree with every word. I've seen an awful lot of crap on social media, the most worrying being normal everyday people who seem to be frothing at the mouth in delight that the killer is a white man with links to right wing groups just so they can say how bad Britain First is and they forget that a person has died. I've seen crap from the other side too of course. Fair enough re the like. Yeah, there's plenty of unintelligible bile to go round. I'll admit when it first happened, I hoped the attacker wasn't Halibut as it just played into the hands of that brigade, especially so soon after Orlando. The fact he's white doesn't mean he's a neo nazi or anything, chances are he's got mental issues and latched on to those ideas as a 'purpose', as with most of these people regardless of creed, colour or religion. The point is nobody knows anything so speculating at all is just fairly pointless right now. Maybe it was the kind of joke that could have waited a bit longer, maybe until she was actually buried? What he said. I'm fully aware black humour comes with the territory but the poor lass died in a brutal way less than 12 hours ago. I caught this relatively early on and saw the press conference live where the chief constable confirmed that - far from being in critical condition - she was dead, and I'm not ashamed to say tears came to my eyes. Death is a part of life, but some death is more shocking, more sudden and more unpleasant than others. Personally, I'll never tell anyone off for a joke, each to their own, but I guess it's just a case of reading the general mood. You can tell it's struck a chord when even deathlisters are pretty sombre. Then as far as I can see it's where one personally draws the line. Such is humour and such is where some professional comedians overstep the mark for many people, if the yardstick is exactly how many people or over a certain percentage, then said comedian tones it down or plays to a limited market or ceases to make a living from humour at all. I wouldn't have made the joke either, alternatively I'm not about to jump up and down on somebody who has. To clarify, I wasn't offended by it, infact I didn't even know about it until Handy mentioned it. Its not a part of the forum that interests me. What I will say though is that you cant throw the 'Black Humour' label at something that isn't funny or appropriate and hope it placates people. It does amaze me sometimes, this place is probably the most tolerant and free thinking forums out there, virtually anything goes yet people still don't understand that those that don't share the forum ethos could cause some very serious shit that could have far reaching consequences for individuals as well as the forum. You really have to be VERY careful what you say here, the forum isn't hidden, its not bullet proof and what happened in the past here could easily happen again but with even greater venom and danger to people. By all means think its scaremongering, bullshit or tell everybody that you don't give a shit. Whatever. Funny, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You cannot say something isn't funny, you can only say something isn't funny to you. Whether something is appropriate is also a judgement call, not an absolute, Some may think something is appropriate, others may not. At least within the confines of a discussion as opposed to turning up for work in a onesie (which one may still argue is appropriate, but rather depends on who is paying whom) I am not unaware of Quantickgate and some of the other history here. If you feel the origin of all this might lead somewhere similar, that's your call, or the moderators. I re-iterate though, it wasn't my comment in the first place, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't appear to be lecturing me on the history of this place. I was pretty unaware of the cox/cocks thing too until it all started getting heated, and the only part I even remotely laughed at was cats gif, and that in isolation i.e without consideration to the reason for it's reason for being posted in the first place. You may find this difficult to believe, but I also feel it is too soon to joke about this awful murder I'm not certain that for me I'd ever find a joke about it funny in its own right. However, I am aware this is how I feel, it may not be how others do and it is not my place to judge them. You seem to feel that it IS your place to judge me (and others), on limited information at that, at any rate that appears to be the case if the rest of your post is in response to what I personally have written and not just scattergunned to anyone. As to the last sentence, again, if that was aimed at me, don't put words in my mouth, or thoughts in my brain, I didn't say or think that. .

The only ever-present (i.e. in every line up) Purple. If he quits is it still Deep Purple? He says he'll be fine, mind Not really, perhaps more Shallow Lilac or Insipid Mauve? Neither of which I freely admit have me rushing for the Ticketmaster Hotline. Haze on the paddling pool. Hm.

Apologies Handrejka, my comment wasn't even slightly aimed at you, I saw your comment and your apology. It was aimed at Zorders' suggestion that Mr Cox was somehow making hay where Mrs Timms had not, as if this meant anything. I liked the fact that Cat had accepted Willz' challenge to find a gif appropriate to his comment and succeeded, nothing more. I liked none of the Cox jokes, and if you read my post in the by-election bingo thread I made a point of saying I was pleased that her death has scored nobody any points in that particular sideshow. Morbidkid, I like things that engage me enough to make me want to like them, I don't just like anything that vaguely 'supports' my argument, which in this instance is simply that a young woman has been brutally murdered and it's pointless to speculate on motives and responses without the facts. The media will speculate because that's what they do. The politicians are united in grief tonight, and it's not very often we can say that. Hopefully some good can somehow come out of this further down the line. And for future reference, I'm male. Thanks. I hadn't seen Dr Z's post and assumed (there I go again) that it was me. I just saw your post in the by-election bingo thread and I agree with every word. I've seen an awful lot of crap on social media, the most worrying being normal everyday people who seem to be frothing at the mouth in delight that the killer is a white man with links to right wing groups just so they can say how bad Britain First is and they forget that a person has died. I've seen crap from the other side too of course. Fair enough re the like. Yeah, there's plenty of unintelligible bile to go round. I'll admit when it first happened, I hoped the attacker wasn't Halibut as it just played into the hands of that brigade, especially so soon after Orlando. The fact he's white doesn't mean he's a neo nazi or anything, chances are he's got mental issues and latched on to those ideas as a 'purpose', as with most of these people regardless of creed, colour or religion. The point is nobody knows anything so speculating at all is just fairly pointless right now. Maybe it was the kind of joke that could have waited a bit longer, maybe until she was actually buried? What he said. I'm fully aware black humour comes with the territory but the poor lass died in a brutal way less than 12 hours ago. I caught this relatively early on and saw the press conference live where the chief constable confirmed that - far from being in critical condition - she was dead, and I'm not ashamed to say tears came to my eyes. Death is a part of life, but some death is more shocking, more sudden and more unpleasant than others. Personally, I'll never tell anyone off for a joke, each to their own, but I guess it's just a case of reading the general mood. You can tell it's struck a chord when even deathlisters are pretty sombre. Then as far as I can see it's where one personally draws the line. Such is humour and such is where some professional comedians overstep the mark for many people, if the yardstick is exactly how many people or over a certain percentage, then said comedian tones it down or plays to a limited market or ceases to make a living from humour at all. I wouldn't have made the joke either, alternatively I'm not about to jump up and down on somebody who has.

Maybe it was the kind of joke that could have waited a bit longer, maybe until she was actually buried? Surely that is a personal opinion lfn? In that this is one case where your personal offensive button has been pushed? There are umpteen cases of puns being made here within seconds of the posting of someones death (even pre-emptive strikes), there's no policy about how long it should wait that I'm aware of. What's an acceptable period? What makes something unacceptable today, but acceptable tomorrow? I'm sure I don't know, but I try not to get offended if my value is different to somebody elses. Clearly this was an unexpected death and also a very nasty one thus it has raised the emotional temperature on here more than a little. For the record I'm as shocked as the next person by it but still cannot draw a definitive distinction for the purposes of puns between it and other deaths on this forum where such humour is posted without a murmur of dissent.

Not entirely sure I get the antipathy towards cox/cocks. I've always considered this site somewhere where black humour was acceptable, nay even encouraged. By its very nature some will be offended by some comments and others by different ones. This is to me at any rate in the same vein as the fact that a dead pool isn't wishing death upon anyone. But it happens and there is naught we can do about it, predicting it is not the same as wishing or taking pleasure from the death of anyone, to me, black humour is the same. Cox/Cocks may not be terribly inspired, but I personally cannot see how it is offensive, or at least no more offensive than a lot else around here.