in eternum+

I always considered myself a relatively good speller, until one night I watched part of that programme "The Great British Spelling Bee" or whatever it was called, where they invited "celebrities" onto teams and basically, well, had a spelling bee. I boasted confidently to my housemate prior to the programme's commencement how good a speller I was; I was then systematically proven otherwise. I've also discovered that, for the life of me, I cannot spell the word "exghstaughsted". I can never remember where the 'g', the 'h', or the 's' goes, and I'm pretty-sure-though-not-entirely-convinced that there's an 'x' in there somewhere too. It's extremely frustrating, as I tend to use the word all the time.

Like how the last name 'St John' is pronounced to rhyme with 'engine' instead of 'moron'?

What's "moderator approval"? Is it kind of the same thing as "housewife's choice"?

I HAVE A QICK QUESTION I HAD A DREAM LAST NIGHT ABOUT IN MY DREAM THIS GUY KEEP SAYING TO ME THEN I STARTED SAYING IT! THE PHRASE WAS " I HAVE THE HEART OF A DEAD MAN" DO ANY OF YOU KNOWS WHAT THAT COULD MEAN? Are you sure the phrase in your dream wasn't "I have the heart of a tin man?" If so, perhaps there are yellow brick roads in your future.

Just in case anyone was tantalised by the description of this programme and was gutted that they missed it, it's being replayed tonight on C5 at 11pm.

What a fetching tuque! This has "CP's new avatar" written ALL over it!

Aha! I reckon the cryogenists get asked these all the time, as they had their answers at the ready: They answered this by stating: well, maybe it can't be done, but hearts are regularly stopped and re-started during surgery etc., so why not after a longer period of time? (This is also how they address the ethical/moral issues raised by others, a la if you disagree with cryonics, do you also disagree with paddles being used to ressuscitate people? etc.) The question of memory was address by a number of cryonics enthusiasts (aka those who are fully paid-up members). The answer is that they don't know if their memories will be intact etc., but they do not see the 'not knowing' as a reason not to do it, because who knows... They are all aware that not only is the means by which to ressuscitate them a necessary factor in their re-animation, but also that a cure for their ailments is also necessary. With regard to the latter point, this was addressed by a critic at one point; unfortunately I can't remember the cryogenists' comeback. They expect to remain frozen for as long as it takes to find a cure for legal death and a cure for whatever killed them. Their insurance pays for it (the freezing, upkeep, research costs, and eventual reanimation are all included in the £80,000/£42,000 fee). On this note, one of the interesting points raised by the woman who seemed to be in charge of the cryonics company being followed was that: they don't know if, assuming they find a way to re-animate and a cure for the deadly affliction, future generations will want to re-animate the frozen people, or even maintain the cryonics labs. So if that's the case, what is going to happen to all of these cryogenically frozen bodies?

I'm afraid such mystical abilities are restricted to the gods and demi-gods.

Well, here are some (potentially interesting) tidbits gleaned from C5's latest contribution to the world of death: It costs £80,000 to have your whole body frozen; it costs a mere £42,000 to only have your head frozen (which is first severed from your body): this is basically covered by life insurance; The law does not require owners/operators of cryogenics establishments to have any kind of medical training whatsoever; A brief sketch of the steps involved in the process: 1. The body must be cooled to just above freezing as quickly as possible (the higher the metabolic rate, the more cells are killed - especially brain cells - so it needs to be slowed as quickly as possible). 2. The body is then injected with a "cocktail of drugs" to stop the blood from thickening/clotting. 3. The blood is then "temporarily" replaced with some kind of preservative (but not formalin, I don't think). [Note: All three first steps must occur as quickly as possible post legal death*, and there are special "ambulances" (which are big lorries with equipment in the back) deployed when someone is on their last legs, so that as soon as legal death is declared the cryonics team can get cracking on the cooling.] 4. The legally deceased individual is then transported (in the "ambulance") to the cryonics headquarters and a very complicated process called vitrification occurs, wherein over 60% of the body's water is replaced with the cryonic preservation solution. The programme producers were quite keen to show the television viewing audience how the torso is openned up into two halves (as it's pretty much frozen), and also how a large-looking hole is drilled into the skull to monitor the brain. The staff who conduct all of this do not requie any medical training whatsoever (not unlike embalmers, tbh). 5. Once this is complete, the body is then transferred to a crate-type box and is very quickly cooled to -110 degrees celsius. 6. The body is then transferred to a shiny silver pod-like unit, and for the next fifteen days is properly deep-frozen in liquid nitrogen until it reaches a core temperature of -196 degrees celsius. 7. Finally, the pod-like unit is lowered into a large cylindrical silver storage tube, which holds four customers altogether. I think one of the things I find most disturbing about this whole process is that the bodies are stored vertically and head-first into the large cylindrical storage tubes, which means that you're basically standing on your head (which now bears a large, drilled hole) until they figure out how to re-animate you. One of the things I found most interesting about the cryonics company that the programme followed, was that their staff - the ones who do all the openning up of the cadavers, the freezing of the bodies, and who run everything - are all simply members of the cryonics group (who themselves have signed up to be cryogenically frozen), who are then given training to perform the operations and then who do so on the other members who die. Talk about having a hands-on understanding of what's going to happen to your body after you experience legal death. It made the whole thing seem like some sort of game played by amateurs. The programme producers were keen and eager to repeatedly point out that there is currently no evidence that cryonics works, or that re-animation is in any way currently a possibility. They did end the programme by mentioning the role that cryonics supporters believe nanotechnology is going to play in re-animation. It was then pointed out that the nanotechnology all of these supporters are banking on is currently nothing more than "science fiction". It was then pointed out that "man on the moon" was once "science fiction". It all got a bit petty after that, really. *believers in the cryogenic process refer to this death as "legal death" because they don't believe that clinical death has occured, as the legally dead person will be revived eventually. They see this "death" as a sort of mini-break between periods of living.

Watch yet more quality TV death fodder: Death in the Deep Freeze: Stranger than Fiction Cryonics believers sign up to be frozen after death in the hope of a second chance of life. This programme follows the remarkable journey of one woman from life to death, and her suspension in a tomb of liquid nitrogen, and asks if this controversial project has any chance of success. C5, tonight, 9pm

That doesn't make them sound like a "model of innocence", does it? It's amazing what a good spin doctor can do for you image.

According to this.... Can butterflies bite or sting? They are not able to because they do not have the necessary mouthparts. In contrast to other insects, the butterfly is a model of innocence. I wonder what the "necessary mouthparts" are? Tastebuds?

I don't think I'd mind being infested with butterflies, that might be quite nice actually. Unless butterflies nibble. Do butterflies nibble?

Jasper.. let me think. Jasper might be alright if it's spelled 'Jaspar'. That strikes me as very "troubled artist".

This seems like quite a logical thing to do really, especially given the cost of professional cryogenics. I mean, there are now DIY funerals - why not DIY cryogenics? Shame her family had to go and muck it up by openning the freezer.

Hippos and Birdies, Windsor! I hope you have a snappy day! I shall drink a Pimms in your honour...

But surely it's different, isn't it? I mean, maybe that £53m was technically the queen mother's money, but there's no way she could have spent it on whatever she liked without massive recriminations. Whereas Brooke Astor could pick herself up a boatorhome or any one of these items anytime she chose, and there's pretty much f*ck all anyone could do or say about it. Although let's face it, Brooke Astor might find herself on the receiving end of some churlish remarks if she purchased herself the Red Hot Fantasy underwear. Unless she's got a stunner of a figure... but really, what 104-year-old does?

That's how I felt about Memoirs of a Geisha. I tend to shy away from any of the "must read" books, especially if TV talk-show hosts are involved in pronouncing them so. However, I received it as a gift for Christmas this year, and so I read it. A very compelling read (of the 'I-couldn't-put-it-down' variety). From what I understand, there is geisha (auto)biography available that is much more accurate in terms of what the life of a geisha was actually like, but as a piece of fiction Memoirs is excellent. Don't want to see the film though.

Yes, I did. I think my favourite line from the show was when they were interviewing the guy who own the body removal company and he was talking about the first removal he ever did. He said that he had spoken with some of the neighbours and one of them had said how the deceased had been such a good friend etc., and the removal guy was like: well then, how come you didn't notice he was dead for, like, nine weeks? In fact, last night there were several pseudo-docs about death and dead bodies on the telly. There was the one mentioned by Lady Die on Channel 4 (which showed goo, seepage, and bugs, but no bodies), there was one called Dead Man Talking: an Autopsy Special on C5 (which, admittedly, was all about forensics and didn't really show any bodies at all), and there was also Death Detective on BBC3 (which showed bodies and body parts, though never the face of the deceased), which is a series where a real-life pathologist is followed around, and filmed conducting different autopsies in order to discover cause of death, etc. It struck me, watching this last programme, that it appeared to be pretty much the same thing and when G von Hagens performed the public autopsy on C4 a few years ago, but GvH almost got arrested, whereas the Upright British Pathologist did not. Either times have changed, or there was some sort of aesthetic difference between the two. Maybe it was because for the GvH autopsy there was a live audience present.

I'm afraid no one dies of "old age" anymore. I think they made it illegal back in the '80s.

As this appears to be a day for lists, thought I'd post what the The Hits programme I mentioned here decided were the top 20 rock deaths*. Thought this thread the most appropriate posting place**: 20. Michael Hutchins, INXS: suicide and/or accident via sex act 19. Shannon Hoon, Blind Melon: OD 18. Cozy Powell, Rainbow: car crash as a result of talking on his mobile whilst driving 17. Phil Lynott, Thin Lizzy: drugs 16. Ian Curtis, Joy Division: suicide via hanging himself 15. Steve Clark, Def Leopard: drank himself to death 14. Three of the Ramones, The Ramones: cancer, cancer, OD 13. Keith Moon, The Who: OD 12. John Bonham, Led Zepplin: choked on his own vomit 11. Layne Staley, Alice in Chains: OD 10. Jimi Hendrix: choked on his own vomit 9. Randy Rhoads, Ozzy Osbourne's guitarist: plane crash whilst playing a practical joke 8. Freddy Mercury, Queen: AIDS 7. Jim Morisson, The Doors: Heart Attack 6. Joe Strummer, The Clash: Heart Attack 5. Bon Scott, AC/DC: choked on his own vomit 4. Sid Vicious, Sex Pistols: OD 3. Cliff Burton, Metallica: Tour Bus Crash 2. Dimebag Darrel, Pantera/Damageplan: shot by nutter whilst performing on stage 1. Kurt Cobain, Nirvana: suicide via shooting himself Of more relevance to this forum, the pundits on the programme were asked the following: Who's off to rock heaven next? The responses were (more-or-less) as follows: Marylin Manson - because he's done everything now, so what's left? Keith Richards - because come on! Sinead O'Connor Shane MacGowan Pete Doherty x2 - because he's now 26 years old (referring to the 27 Club) Cheeky Girls/Simon Cowell - please! McFly - please! Somebody just sort them out... When asked who will live the longest, the following responses were given: Keith Richards x3 - because how is he still alive? Axle Rose Ozzy Osbourne - because he's survived pretty much everything, plus he's the Prince of Darkness Slash Lemmy Of course, I don't think any of the above was based on rigorous, scientific investigation... *I hope I got all the names and bands right. I don't really listen to rock music... **I'd like to point out that a gardening-related death was, in fact, mentioned on the programme.

For anyone who has nothing better to do tonight from 9 - 11pm... There is a programme on The Hits (music) channel* called Top 20 Rock Deaths, that is described as follows: *Freeview channel 18, Top Up TV channel 18, NTL channel 910/910, Telewest channel 320, Sky Digital channel 358

Don't we have an existent post-whore thread already?

What a list - and it's only July! I look forward to the less expatiated version, senza all the pointless suggestions made earlier in the year. Snaps for the effort OoO. Reads like a man who is vying for promotion.

Tangentially related to this... DLers might be interested to note that the Joffe Bill, shot down by the House of Lords in May via an incredible marshalling of the various religious communities, is set to be re-introduced shortly. [Editor's note: If you google 'euthanasia' + 'UK', the top hits are predominantly (anti-euthanasia) religious and pro-life groups. I find that quite depressing and a bit worrying, really.]