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Octopus of Odstock

Oldest Living football league players

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17 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:


Where do you access the Irish birth records?

 

Family Search. Its free as well.

 

Very similar to the English and Welsh ones in that its listed quarterly but better than nowt.

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PS William Simpson did indeed die in 2021.

 

SIMPSON, WILLIAM     1919  

GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2021 in WAKEFIELD  (097-1A)  Entry Number 

 

 

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Hope to have the final additions for 1930-1932 before the World Cup - if not before. 

 

I have found one death though - Roy Evans (1929) - ex Watford and Millwall:

 

Bernard, Royden Evans found in 2 trees
  1. Record information.
    Birth 1929 England
    No publicly available family members
      6 People0 Records0 Sources
  2. Record information.
    Birth Oct 1929 Olave, Siquijor, Philippines
    Marriage Jan 1951 Bromley, Kent, England
    Death Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
    Record information.
    Spouse Judy P Sawyer
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Three 1930 births struck off the new list before it goes live:

 

John Durkin, ex-Gillingham, who is listed as still being alive on Hugman's footballers, died just shy of 40 years ago:

 

John Durkin found in 25 trees
Record information.
Birth 18 Apr 1930 Hill of Beath, Fife, Scotland
Death 3 Jul 1983 Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
 
Ray Williams, ex-Tranmere, died in South Africa (date unknown)
 
Record information.
Birth 30 Dec 1930 Merseyside, Cheshire, England
Residence 1939 Cheshire, England
Marriage 1958 Cheshire, England
Death South Africa
Record information.
Father William D Williams (Born 1901)
Record information.
Mother Gwendoline Owens (Born 1907)
 
 
Meanwhile Billy Pye, also alive on Hugman's (ex-Stockport), died in 2010:
 

William Pye

1930–2010

BIRTH 8 NOV 1930

DEATH 8 FEB 2010

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I don't know if anyone from Hugman's checks this (or people can send this to them but the following 1931 births are also off the list. I think a few of these are on Wikipedia too @Ulitzer95

 


Douglas Taylor from tree Britton
Record information.
Birth 20 Apr 1931 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Residence 1939 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Death

Sep 2001 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

 

 

 

  1. William Tolson from tree Gwen24
    Record information.
    Birth 29 Mar 1931 Rochdale, Lancashire, England
    No publicly available family members
      44698 People2 Records2 Sources
  2. Record information.
    Birth 1931 England
    Death 17 Mar 2014 Armadale, Victoria, Australia
    Record information.
    Father Thomas Tolson
    Mother Mary Hannah Baalam
    Spouse Patricia Shirley Martin (1933-2021)

     

    Record information.
    Birth 29 May 1931 Pontefract, Yorkshire, England
    Residence 1939 Riding, Northumberland, England
    Marriage Jul 1954 Cheshire, England
    Death Jan 1972 Chester, Cheshire, England
    Record information.
    Father Ernest Sutcliffe (1881-1964)
    Record information.
    Mother edith annie bastow (1893-1964)

     

    William McLean

    Record information.
    Birth 14 Aug 1931 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Death 19 Aug 1984 Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
    Record information.
    Father Thomas McLean
    Spouse

    Louisa Fairhurst

     

     

    Record information.
    Birth 7 Oct 1931 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
    Marriage 15 Sep 1955 England
    Residence Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Death 2 Mar 2012 Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Record information.
    Father David Williams (1903-1961)
    Record information.
    Mother

    Ethel Taylor (1906-1971)

     

    Record information.
    Birth 6 Nov 1931 Scotland
    Marriage Mar 1956 Walsall, Staffordshire, England
    Residence 1993 Pacifica, San Mateo, California, USA
    Death 30 Aug 2016 Martinez, Contra Costa, California, USA
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On 26/10/2022 at 21:08, Octopus of Odstock said:

Three 1930 births struck off the new list before it goes live:

 

John Durkin, ex-Gillingham, who is listed as still being alive on Hugman's footballers, died just shy of 40 years ago:

 

John Durkin found in 25 trees
Record information.
Birth 18 Apr 1930 Hill of Beath, Fife, Scotland
Death 3 Jul 1983 Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
 
Ray Williams, ex-Tranmere, died in South Africa (date unknown)
 
Record information.
Birth 30 Dec 1930 Merseyside, Cheshire, England
Residence 1939 Cheshire, England
Marriage 1958 Cheshire, England
Death South Africa
Record information.
Father William D Williams (Born 1901)
Record information.
Mother Gwendoline Owens (Born 1907)
 
 
Meanwhile Billy Pye, also alive on Hugman's (ex-Stockport), died in 2010:
 

William Pye

1930–2010

BIRTH 8 NOV 1930

DEATH 8 FEB 2010


I've looked extensively for all 3 of these. Whilst I can find Pye in the GRO, I can't find anything strong enough to link it up on Wikipedia.

As for Durkin, newspaper obit here. Alas, doesn't mention age, DOB or that he was a footballer! 

I've moved all 3 to possibly living on Wiki until stronger sources appear. Hopefully Hugman's can verify + update but it doesn't look like their site is getting many updates recently!

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2 hours ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

I don't know if anyone from Hugman's checks this (or people can send this to them but the following 1931 births are also off the list. I think a few of these are on Wikipedia too @Ulitzer95

 


Record information.
Birth 20 Apr 1931 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Residence 1939 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Death

Sep 2001 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

 

 

 

  1. Record information.
    Birth 29 Mar 1931 Rochdale, Lancashire, England
    No publicly available family members
      44698 People2 Records2 Sources
  2. Record information.
    Birth 1931 England
    Death 17 Mar 2014 Armadale, Victoria, Australia
    Record information.
    Father Thomas Tolson
    Mother Mary Hannah Baalam
    Spouse Patricia Shirley Martin (1933-2021)

     

    Fred Sutcliffe from tree paul margrave
    Record information.
    Birth 29 May 1931 Pontefract, Yorkshire, England
    Residence 1939 Riding, Northumberland, England
    Marriage Jul 1954 Cheshire, England
    Death Jan 1972 Chester, Cheshire, England
    Record information.
    Father Ernest Sutcliffe (1881-1964)
    Record information.
    Mother edith annie bastow (1893-1964)

     

    William McLean

    Record information.
    Birth 14 Aug 1931 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Death 19 Aug 1984 Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
    Record information.
    Father Thomas McLean
    Spouse

    Louisa Fairhurst

     

     

    Record information.
    Birth 7 Oct 1931 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
    Marriage 15 Sep 1955 England
    Residence Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Death 2 Mar 2012 Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Record information.
    Father David Williams (1903-1961)
    Record information.
    Mother

    Ethel Taylor (1906-1971)

     

    Record information.
    Birth 6 Nov 1931 Scotland
    Marriage Mar 1956 Walsall, Staffordshire, England
    Residence 1993 Pacifica, San Mateo, California, USA
    Death 30 Aug 2016 Martinez, Contra Costa, California, USA


Wasn't much help for many of these BUT I did find a newspaper clipping from the Cheshire Observer about Fred Sutcliffe's death. It's here and I've updated his Wiki. Cheers!

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Okay, here's the graduates of 1932 scrubbed out - for Hugmans/Wiki (where appropriate)

 

Joe Tyrrell - 

Record information.
Birth Jan 1932 London, London, England
Marriage Apr 1955 Yorkshire, England
Residence 2003 Folkestone, Kent, England
Death

1 Mar 2014 Folkestone, Kent, England

 

 

 

Terrie Knight - 

Record information.
Birth 1 Feb 1932 University, Hillsborough, Florida, USA
Residence 1951 Alton, Hampshire, England
Marriage 1 Jun 1957 Upper Farringdon, Hampshire, England
Death

23 Apr 2021 Alton, Madison, Illinois, USA

 

 

 

 

 

Ray Snowball - 

Record information.
Birth 16 Mar 1932 York, Yorkshire, England
Marriage Sep 1957 York, Yorkshire, England
Death 2007 York, Yorkshire, England

 

Tommy Bisset - 

Record information.
Birth 21 Mar 1932 Croydon
Death

2011 Dumfries, Dumfries-shire, Scotland

 

Mick Fazackerley -

Record information.
Birth 8 Apr 1932 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Marriage Jan 1953 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Residence 1968 New South Wales, Australia
Death

21 Feb 2008 New South Wales, Australia

 

 

Ken Chapman

Record information.
Birth 25 Apr 1932 Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Marriage Mar 1954 Crewe, Cheshire, England
Residence 2004 Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
Death

22 May 2019 Daventry, Northamptonshire, England

 

 

 

Alan Herron

Record information.
Birth 6 Oct 1932 Northumberland, England
Marriage 1953 Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Residence 1960 England
Death

4 Oct 2013 Clay, Arkansas, USA

 

 

 

Bill Ellaway:

Record information.
Birth Oct 1932 Crediton, Devon, England
Marriage Jul 1958 Central, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Death

22 Apr 2022 Exeter, Devon, England

 

 

 

Robert Baldridge

Record information.
Birth 26 Nov 1932 Sunderland, Durham, England
Marriage 1959 Sunderland, Durham, England
Residence 2003 Sunderland, Durham, England
Death 2014 Sunderland, Durham, England
 
Robert Moore:
Record information.
Birth 14 Dec 1931 Doncaster, Yorkshire, England
Marriage Oct 1965 Scarborough, Yorkshire, England
Death

18 Feb 2014 Scarborough, Yorkshire, England

 

 

 

John Hyatt:

Record information.
Birth 20 Dec 1932 England
Death

18 Oct 1998 Isle of Wight, England

 

 

and finally:

Denis Smith

Record information.
Birth 23 Dec 1932 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Marriage Apr 1955 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Residence Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Death 10 Nov 2004 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
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On 28/10/2022 at 23:03, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

 

Ray Snowball - 

Record information.
Birth 16 Mar 1932 York, Yorkshire, England
Marriage Sep 1957 York, Yorkshire, England
Death 2007 York, Yorkshire, England

 

Tommy Bisset

Record information.
Birth 21 Mar 1932 Croydon
Death

2011 Dumfries, Dumfries-shire, Scotland

 

 


Tommy Bisset checks out, as per a match on Scotland's People.

Ray Snowball... are you not skeptical of that one? He was honoured with a street named after him in 2001. Bizarre that he should die without a mention in any newspaper etc?

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1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:


Tommy Bisset checks out, as per a match on Scotland's People.

Ray Snowball... are you not skeptical of that one? He was honoured with a street named after him in 2001. Bizarre that he should die without a mention in any newspaper etc?

 

Well, given this, very sceptical!

 

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19985840.fa-amateur-cup-winner-crook-town-marks-90th-birthday/

 

Added back on and apologies. You'd for think a family member would know what they're doing 

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24 minutes ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

I think the rest of them are kosher though.

 

Ellaway's mentioned here https://grecianarchive.exeter.ac.uk/items/show/1533 with am extra obit.


I've updated the ones on Wiki that are indisputable. I've left Tommy Bisset for now. 99% certain that it's him, but Croydon to Dumfriesshire is an odd move after you've built a career into your 30s in the south of England. It would need to be proven somehow. Sadly there are no newspaper clippings on him after 1960.

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hi its MIchael from Hugman's footballers

You found a load of deaths that I didn't find mainly from abroad

Roy Evans DIED IN 2016 RE Watford site

I found John Galloway died Jersey 2016

Harry Sutherland died Melbourne 1968

John Dixon Foxton died Bateau Bay NSW Australia 29th May 1995

daughter emigrated

Leonard Archibald Young born 1912 coaching in Australia 1950 no trace of death

Vivian Woodward ex Fulham emigrated to Australia in the 1980s no trace of death

William Dunlop Reid wife died in Canada 1980 cant find his death

no players born before 1924 alive but no information known after they retired from football

 

Michael

 

 

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Jim Cairney: Hugman's

No confirmation re. death but moved to Canada in 1960 - it's definitely him by the clue given by occupation! The trail goes cold thereafter, but this is not one chap to check on GRO.

 

Name James Cairney
Sex Male
Age 29
Travel Place MONTREAL, CANADA
Arrival Place CANADA
Departure Date 15 Apr 1960
Departure Place Scotland, United Kingdom
Departure Place (Original) Scotland
Birth Date 13 Jul 1931
Marital Status Single
Occupation PROF SOCCER PLAYER
Owner Name Canadian Pacific S S Coy
Event Type Emigration
Arrival Port MONTREAL
Departure Port GREENOCK
Ship Name EMPRESS OF ENGLAND
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On 31/10/2022 at 13:14, michael featherstone said:

hi its MIchael from Hugman's footballers

You found a load of deaths that I didn't find mainly from abroad

Michael

 

 

 

@michael featherstone, when you next update Hugman's can you please update:

 

Barry Mansell d. July 2008, Portsmouth

Robert Odell d. 2017, Isle of Wight

Ray Hudson d. 15 Jul 1993, Leominster

 

All ex-Reading FC players

 

Now, back to the 1932 lists.

 

@Ulitzer95, this one's a bit fuzzy, but I do think it's our man.

 

Tommy Heenan, born in Scotland, played for Bradford Park Avenue. Very few Thomas Heenan's (with no middle name) were born in 1932 - none in England or Wales and none in Ireland. Therefore, I am reasonably confident this is our man.

 

Emigrates to New Zealand:

Name Thomas Heenan
Age 33
Immigration Date 2 Sep 1965
Immigration Place Auckland, New Zealand
Departure Date 1965
Departure Place Southampton
Birth Year (Estimated) 1932
Event Type Immigration
Arrival Port Auckland (other ports also listed)
Departure Port Southampton
Ship Name

Ellinis

 

 

 

and then dies there in 1987 with that birth date being identical. There's not that much to link a Scot going to New Zealand but I think it is the same due to the lack of other possibilties. PS Les Barrell also moved to New Zealand, in 1963. So that's another for overseas and not GRO.

 

Name Thomas Heenan
Death or Burial Place Naenae, Lower Hutt, Wellington, New Zealand
Death or Burial Longitude 174.9572993
Death or Burial Latitude -41.195839
Cemetery Taita Cemetery
Death Date 21 Jun 1987
Birth Date 16 Jun 1932

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

Now, back to the 1932 lists.

 

@Ulitzer95, this one's a bit fuzzy, but I do think it's our man.

 

Tommy Heenan, born in Scotland, played for Bradford Park Avenue. Very few Thomas Heenan's (with no middle name) were born in 1932 - none in England or Wales and none in Ireland. Therefore, I am reasonably confident this is our man.

 

Emigrates to New Zealand:

Name Thomas Heenan
Age 33
Immigration Date 2 Sep 1965
Immigration Place Auckland, New Zealand
Departure Date 1965
Departure Place Southampton
Birth Year (Estimated) 1932
Event Type Immigration
Arrival Port Auckland (other ports also listed)
Departure Port Southampton
Ship Name

Ellinis

 

 

 

and then dies there in 1987 with that birth date being identical. There's not that much to link a Scot going to New Zealand but I think it is the same due to the lack of other possibilties.

 

Name Thomas Heenan
Death or Burial Place Naenae, Lower Hutt, Wellington, New Zealand
Death or Burial Longitude 174.9572993
Death or Burial Latitude -41.195839
Cemetery Taita Cemetery
Death Date 21 Jun 1987
Birth Date 16 Jun 1932
 

 


There was only one Thomas Heenan born in Scotland in 1932. Definitely him.

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Finally in the home stretch now - only GRO to check and the 1930, 1931 and 1932 births will be on there. Should have this done by Saturday latest; just 45 to check now.

 

GRO has confirmed that Don May, ex-Bury, died in 2015.

 

MAY, DONALD  IVOR   1931  
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q1/2015 in TELFORD AND WREKIN  (716-1A)  Entry Number 511604048

 

 

 

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Okay, on the front page, I present the list of players born pre-1st January 1933 (as far as I can make out)

 

The list stands at around 200, but I've added three more years and I'm sure some will be whittled down in due course through further sleuthing.

 

Some very famous names there, including Welsh legend Terry Medwin, former England international Colin McDonald, Welsh stalwart Des Palmer, cricket legend Mickey Stewart and former QPR manager Gordon Jago MBE.

 

 

 

Some fallers just before the end; Aldershot and Dunfermline player Bob Gilchrist died in 2013:

GILCHRIST, ROBERT  COOK   1932  

GRO Reference:  DOR  Q3/2013 in BLACKPOOL  (581-1A)  Entry Number 508868560

 

 

 

Ron Floyd, Coventry born, ex-Crewe and West Brom player, died in 2020 - 

FLOYD, RONALD  CHARLES   1932  

GRO Reference:  DOR  Q1/2020 in COVENTRY  (063-1A)  Entry Number 520077261

 

 

 

and Ron Appleton, Workington right-winger, died in 2012;

APPLETON, RONALD     1932  

GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2012 in CUMBRIA  (387-1J)  Entry Number 507464304

 

 

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Found this player not listed in your list @Octopus of Odstock, Tommy Forde. He was signed by Wolverhampton Wanderers but never played a single game for them and return to Northern Ireland. Will have to check if he is really still alive in Australia.

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7 hours ago, whoismakoto said:

Found this player not listed in your list @Octopus of Odstock, Tommy Forde. He was signed by Wolverhampton Wanderers but never played a single game for them and return to Northern Ireland. Will have to check if he is really still alive in Australia.

 

He's not on the list as he never played a football league game, but it'll be good to know if he's still alive, for checking who is the oldest former international for Northern Ireland.

 

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25 minutes ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

He's not on the list as he never played a football league game, but it'll be good to know if he's still alive, for checking who is the oldest former international for Northern Ireland.

 

Oops. Ryerson index says he died on 3 January, 2012 in Adelaide as John Thomas Forde. Possible good news is that his brother Hugh who is a member of the Great Britain 1960 squad, did not appear in Ryerson index so he should be safe and he has a grandson playing in the A-League so he might not die off radar.

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@Octopus of Odstock

Report below from the Southend United Ex-Players Association of the death of Alex Duchart, who has died aged 89.
 


Is this strong enough evidence to suggest that the six possibly living Southend players on your page 1 list are in fact all deceased?

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3 hours ago, Ulitzer95 said:

@Octopus of Odstock

Report below from the Southend United Ex-Players Association of the death of Alex Duchart, who has died aged 89.
 


Is this strong enough evidence to suggest that the six possibly living Southend players on your page 1 list are in fact all deceased?

Quite possibly. The clincher would be of the club itself confirmed Duchart was also the oldest. Let me check the six again to see if they ever had any link to Southend FPA.

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Okay, I found this:

 

 
  · We are truly saddened to learn from his family this morning that Peter Heathcote passed away after a short illness on Easter Sunday. He was well known to a huge number of people in the Essex football scene and loved by all.
Peter, aged 89, was to our knowledge the oldest surviving Southend United footballer, and also we believe was the last Shrimper alive who had played for the club before its move to Roots Hall in 1955, having played for us twice in goal during the 1951/52 season.
 
Therefore we are pretty safe to remove Ernie Butler. Heathcote, I am sure, would've said something about a team-mate from that season still being alive.
 
I also think if Ray Woods was still alive, there would be more from SUEPA about a player from the 1940's. Like Bill Anderson, I've marked him as probably dead.
 
However, I am reluctant to move off the following:
 
Eric Marsden - see comment in this page here - was alive in 2020 and nothing in GRO since - https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=111&player=463
Jimmy Thomson - definitely alive in 2017
Billy Waters - never actually played for Southend, only on their books.
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