Treasonable Politicians

[Tuber Mirum 125]

No they aren't. Not always.

 

In cases like in most European countries where they have had them for years they are the government's way of saying "we want to protect our citizens and make sure they can be recognised as citizens of a particular country and distinguished from one another."

I thought that's what passports were for.

That's right, but not everybody in Britain has a passport.

 

If it were made mandatory for everyone to have a passport, would people regard that as an encroachment on their civil liberties?

 

In the case of Tony Blair he is saying "I want absolute control and as much information about as many of my subjects as possible because I am a messaianic paranoid fool."

This is the case with all Governments, the more information an ID card contains, the greater potential for abuse.

Not all European governments are as brazenly iniquitous as the British one. Yet.

I would still even trust a couple of them.

You are right though TF. Having lots of information on an ID card is open to more abuse and doesn't guarantee definite identification of the holder if the card is easily forged. And as Entropy says, the British ones are allegedly quite easy to forge. If they were really interested in protecting us the cards would contain less personal information and have plenty of features making them difficult to copy or imitate.

But they aren't so they don't.

[Star Crossed 33]

We are powerless to prevent the crushing of all resistance to this government's hidden agenda of total control.

 

[RANT] Quite so. (abb.) [/RANT]

 

lol, that was a particularly long-winded rant, encompassing everything from people who vote without any sort of policy knowledge, to fat americans, to the price of crude, all the way through to the false premise of the ubiquitous terror threat and our government's agenda of complete and utter, vice-like, spirit-crushing totalitarianism. But I didn't want to bore you with any of that. Plus, Josco and Yeti did it better.

 

[sEMI-RANT]Treasonable politicians? No, I don't think so. Certainly not those who seek to protect our civil liberty by opposing myopic and oppressive policy.[/sEMI-RANT]

 

[QUASI-RANT] Mods, please close this thread. I'm drawn, moth/flame-like, to rally against the sort of hamptons who read The Sun and who blindly agree with whatever new dumbed-down, xenophobic bullsh1t Tony and George conspire to feed us. So please, for the sake of my sanity and to stop me repeatedly chomping on Charley Farley's poisoned bait, CLOSE THIS THREAD. Oh, and this thread's got nothing to do with DL whatsoever and belongs in a different forum entirely. Is that enough reason? Come on. [/QUASI-RANT]

 

Oh dear, that's nearly as long as the rant was.

[Josco 49]

Oh, and this thread's got nothing to do with DL whatsoever and belongs in a different forum entirely. Is that enough reason? Come on.

Au contraire, Star Crossed. This thread is all about death. The death of Democracy. The death of Freedom. The death of this Island's Traditions. Sacrificed on the Altar of New Labours lust for total control.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

No they aren't. Not always.

 

In cases like in most European countries where they have had them for years they are the government's way of saying "we want to protect our citizens and make sure they can be recognised as citizens of a particular country and distinguished from one another."

I thought that's what passports were for.

That's right, but not everybody in Britain has a passport.

 

If it were made mandatory for everyone to have a passport, would people regard that as an encroachment on their civil liberties?

 

In the case of Tony Blair he is saying "I want absolute control and as much information about as many of my subjects as possible because I am a messaianic paranoid fool."

This is the case with all Governments, the more information an ID card contains, the greater potential for abuse.

Not all European governments are as brazenly iniquitous as the British one. Yet.

I would still even trust a couple of them.

You are right though TF. Having lots of information on an ID card is open to more abuse and doesn't guarantee definite identification of the holder if the card is easily forged. And as Entropy says, the British ones are allegedly quite easy to forge. If they were really interested in protecting us the cards would contain less personal information and have plenty of features making them difficult to copy or imitate.

But they aren't so they don't.

Re. passports, if they were compulsory then yes it would be an encroachment on civil liberties.

A document should be of some use to the holder otherwise it's an imposition.

 

 

I for one will never carry an ID card, no matter what any law may say, they can't lock all the dissenters up, fine me and I'll refuse to pay.

I'll never kowtow to this Government.

[Tuber Mirum 125]

I won't either.

 

That's the kind of disobedience which gets results. Look at Mrs Thatcher and her poll tax.

 

Nevertheless I maintain having a standardised identification document would be a good idea and useful. But for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

Trust the police ...

 

Trust the spies ...

Speaking of Tazers,

 

this must have brought tears to the eyes.

 

Police tazer hits man in genitals

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

So what are the esteemed members' views on the proliferance of CCTV in the UK, and its use in identifying the first four lunatic bombers, and catching (with the very clever triangulation of a mobile phone) the next batch in record quick time?

 

**Dons crash helmet**

[Tempus Fugit 214]

So what are the esteemed members' views on the proliferance of CCTV in the UK, and its use in identifying the first four lunatic bombers, and catching (with the very clever triangulation of a mobile phone) the next batch in record quick time?

 

**Dons crash helmet**

I don't have a problem with CCTV, it serves a useful purpose.

 

It doesn't cut the overall level of crime though, merely displaces it, but it does aid prosecution.

 

You need good quality cameras with effective zoom and sharp images, you also need to have well trained and motivated camera monitors, these people are the crux of the system. In order to be effective regular breaks are needed for the monitors to maintain alertness.

 

Sadly all too often corners are cut, poor quality cameras are installed and monitors are often inadequately trained and work long hours without sufficient breaks.

[Josco 49]

Sadly all too often corners are cut, poor quality cameras are installed and monitors are often inadequately trained and work long hours without sufficient breaks.

So maybe we need some cameras to monitor the monitors.

 

As the old saying goes:

"Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, and little fleas have littler fleas, and so on ad infinitum."

 

We have more cameras, and our people are captured on them more times than any other country on earth by a considerable margin. It's still a badly run, crime infested S**t hole though.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

Sadly all too often corners are cut, poor quality cameras are installed and monitors are often inadequately trained and work long hours without sufficient breaks.

So maybe we need some cameras to monitor the monitors.

 

As the old saying goes:

"Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, and little fleas have littler fleas, and so on ad infinitum."

 

We have more cameras, and our people are captured on them more times than any other country on earth by a considerable margin. It's still a badly run, crime infested S**t hole though.

The crime level is high because the Police have been converted from a law enforcement agency to a politically correct bunch of beaurocrats.

 

They spend most of their time form filling and not patrolling. Abolish PACE for starters it's a criminals best friend.

[Tuber Mirum 125]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is PACE?

 

Am I wrong in saying that crime really took off big time during Mrs Thatcher's reign?

Can anyone give a convincing reason for this in words of not many syllables?

Was it Maggie who gave them lots of forms to fill, or did that come later as an obstacle to crime prevention?

[Tempus Fugit 214]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is PACE?

 

Am I wrong in saying that crime really took off big time during Mrs Thatcher's reign?

Can anyone give a convincing reason for this in words of not many syllables?

Was it Maggie who gave them lots of forms to fill, or did that come later as an obstacle to crime prevention?

PACE is The Police and Criminal Evidence Act

 

See here for details

 

PACE was introduced in '84 so Maggie is to blame.

[The Yeti 14]

They know where you live ...

 

And how ...

 

And who you are ...

 

Even if you're innocent ...

 

"DNA can be taken [by the police] from those arrested, and retained permanently even if they're not charged or found guilty... In the case of arrests, you could see situations where large numbers of demonstrators are arrested then released without charge, but have their DNA added to the database anyway."

 

So, who wants to go on a protest march now ?

[Guest Guest_Charley Farley]

Not me Im in a tent on a roundabout connected up to a lampost!

[Josco 49]

They know where you live ...

 

And how ...

 

And who you are ...

 

Even if you're innocent ...

 

"DNA can be taken [by the police] from those arrested, and retained permanently even if they're not charged or found guilty... In the case of arrests, you could see situations where large numbers of demonstrators are arrested then released without charge, but have their DNA added to the database anyway."

 

So, who wants to go on a protest march now ?

I hope I will be able to say "I told you so" before all forms of communication are censored.

It may be a little while in coming, but I think that within about 3-4 years all internet communication will be logged against one's database and checked for conformity to government guidelines. You have been warned.

[maryportfuncity 10,658]

I hope I will be able to say "I told you so" before all forms of communication are censored.

It may be a little while in coming, but I think that within about 3-4 years all internet communication will be logged against one's database and checked for conformity to government guidelines. You have been warned.

 

Guys, has anyone seen Josco, I've been trying to text him for over an hour, hang on there's someone at my door, back in a minute.............................

[Tempus Fugit 214]

John Pilger knows a thing or two about Police States.

 

He says Britain is rapidly becoming a Democratic Police State.

[Star Crossed 33]

John Pilger knows a thing or two about Police States.

 

He says Britain is rapidly becoming a Democratic Police State.

Pilger's quite correct, as is George Monbiot and all the other respectable, experienced journalists who seek to educate us in matters of democracy/lack thereof and governmental extremism.

 

The sad truth is that these brilliant, hard-working journalists tend to preach to the converted; intelligent people who can read and understand logical, rational arguments. They will rarely change public opinion, because Joe Public is so f*cking stupid and illiterate that they can hardly say the word "democracy", let alone understand fully its implications, or notice when it's being dangerously eroded.

 

Most of the "electorate", unfortunately, are Sun-reading, ignorant f*cking sheep who will let Tony and his éliterati ride roughshod over our rights until it's too late to do anything, à la Josco scenario. These c*nts don't deserve to live in the democracy that our country used to be.

 

Take action NOW before we're all totally enslaved, constantly spied-on, catalogued, pigeon-holed and shackled. Attend public demonstrations, write to your MP, tell your friends, neighbours, colleagues, just go DO something about it.

 

Public complacency has got us to the stage we are now at, NOTHING ELSE.

 

Democracy only works if we, the people, stand up and be counted and tell the ignorant f*cks who were "elected" to govern our affairs that we will not stand for their selfish bigotry, lies and hypocrisy.

 

Above all, don't waste your f*cking time like I've just done, venting steam in this thread. Please. Thank you.

[Josco 49]

With exception of a couple of anglo saxon expletives, I thought that an excellent rant. Good enough to be a Sun editorial; a journalistic career beckons.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

With exception of a couple of anglo saxon expletives, I thought that an excellent rant. Good enough to be a Sun editorial; a journalistic career beckons.

Aren't The Sun pro Blair?

 

Didn't their front page call those MP's who voted against Blairs 90 day internment plan "Traitors".

[Josco 49]

The Sun is run by Murdoch, an odious individual, whose allegiance changes according to the WIFM*. I am sure that victorious one of the two Davids will assidiously court his favours.

 

 

 

 

 

*What's In It For Me

[Entropy 5]

The Patriot Act has allowed the government to demand records of what people buy in bookstores and check out of libraries. I can just see hordes of people who are interested in chemistry and physics being hauled off to jail as potential terrorists. The way the government is going after scientists working with dangerous pathogens, there won't be many people left to do that work and then the government will wonder why the country is unprepared for chemical and biological attacks.

 

It's amazing how grateful people can get for being deprived of their civil liberties as long as it makes them feel less afraid. Unfortunately, most people don't recognise how that fear has been stoked and manipulated by the very government claiming to be trying to alleviate it by all these infringements on their rights.

[Windsor 2,233]

May I be the first to congratulate you on your 100th post here at deathlist.net.

 

Congratulations Elspeth.

[Entropy 5]

Thank you.

 

I see you're an entire order of magnitude ahead of me in post count here.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

The Patriot Act is weak, when compared to the UK equivalent,

 

The Civil Contingencies Act 2004., this innocuously titled Act gives incredible powers to Ministers of the Crown if the Prime Minister declares an emergency.

 

The definition of an emergency in this Act is so broad as to enable almost any situation to be so classified.