Deadpool Detective Work

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

On 14/04/2021 at 20:43, Ulitzer95 said:

@Octopus of Odstock, a rather bland family tree here has this:

David D. Gray
b. 1923 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
d. 1983 Halifax, Yorkshire, England

There's a comment bubble at the side which says "josie66mod Football: David Gray famously played for Bradford City FC in the 1950's."

No other info provided but most likely accurate.
Here's the problem in verifying it – the GRO Index doesn't have the 1983 records (d'oh!). It starts from 1984... and on FreeBMD, this record doesn't come up either, but that's likely because FreeBMD has incomplete records for the years missing on the GRO. In order to get the full date for Hugman's, they'd be best getting in touch with the registry office responsible for Halifax and request a copy of a certificate. That should hold a middle name, possibly a birth date/place, and will give a full date of death.

 

Hi, I'm tempted to agree with you on this one. The only thing that stops me slightly is that Gray played 242 times for Bradford City. I would've expected the A-Z of Bradford City, published in 1988, to have mentioned someone who played so much for them had died five years previously. As I've got to contact someone re. Jack Taylor, I'll ask them about David Gray. A new Who's Who 1946-1980 came out in 2019 but it's quite pricy. If it were a tenner, I'd buy it. Iv'e asked the question.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

On 14/04/2021 at 21:16, Ulitzer95 said:

@Octopus of Odstock

Another one here.

Frederick A. Sharpe
b. Jan 1924 Norwich, Norfolk, England
m. Emily M. Watts in Apr 1944 Hull, Yorkshire, England
d. 2020 Hull, Yorkshire, England (aged 95–96)

This time, no mention of being a footballer in the family tree, but likely our guy. Worth contacting Wrexham F.C.? Surely they would have heard something?

This could be verified by the GRO (as his middle name will appear there) when they finally bother to put all the 2020 records up! When that will be, I don't know. I last asked them 6 months ago and they said they didn't know when they'd be live!

OR... there's the Probates. Now there is a record in there for 2020 for a Frederick Arthur Sharpe, but some reason the probate itself was registered in Liverpool. It has a date of death of 9 Apr 2020. I'm not sure if the probate would hold the age or DOB? But if Hugman's wanted to, they could call the GRO and try and place an order of a 2020 death certificate by phone. I think you can do that even though they're not online at the moment?

 

Sorted - it is our man.

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/hull-daily-mail/20200420/page/41

 

Frederick Arthur Sharpe. There cannot be two FAS's born in the same month in the same place who died at the same age. To be fair, he played just one game for Wrexham in 1948 and that's it so - yes he played league football but only one game. @michaelf, see the research on this one and Gray and Taylor.

[edm88 72]

1 hour ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

Hi, I'm tempted to agree with you on this one. The only thing that stops me slightly is that Gray played 242 times for Bradford City. I would've expected the A-Z of Bradford City, published in 1988, to have mentioned someone who played so much for them had died five years previously. As I've got to contact someone re. Jack Taylor, I'll ask them about David Gray. A new Who's Who 1946-1980 came out in 2019 but it's quite pricy. If it were a tenner, I'd buy it. Iv'e asked the question.

I've obtained records out of the GRO Online Index range before from the website's online ordering system - you just need to know the index references from Ancestry/FreeBMD and enter them manually. I believe all death registrations after the 60s have birth date/place.

[edm88 72]

On 14/04/2021 at 04:11, Ulitzer95 said:

@Octopus of Odstock

Eric Hampson 11/11/1921 Hanley, Staffs, EN
Not sure of his fate but was able to get full birth details as per the records. Above info definitely correct. His parents were Edwin and Eunice Hampson. Worth noting them in case any leads appear in the future. My hunch is on emigrated then died, or at a push... still alive?

I got curious and started to look into this one too. He seems to have married Ethel Morris (1922-1973) and had at least one daughter. Per a family tree which just includes Ethel, the daughter died in QLD, Australia... so perhaps he later went there?

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

9 hours ago, edm88 said:

Also,  Bonnie Belle Barber is now Bonni DeLong, living in Oregon.

I can see the record for this on Ancestry but it says Bonnie Belle Barker (not Barber) and Ollin DeLong. Definitely the same person?

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

9 hours ago, edm88 said:

Charmienne Harker is now Charmienne Krauss, appears to still be living in California (public records have her year of birth as 1924).

Can’t find this record at all. Where did you find it out of interest?

[edm88 72]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

I can see the record for this on Ancestry but it says Bonnie Belle Barker (not Barber) and Ollin DeLong. Definitely the same person?

 

Yes - going off the obituary of her father, John Asa Barber (1916-1997), it states his daughter to be "Bonni De Long" of Oregon. The US Public Records Index entry under that name matches the 10 Sep 1938 DOB. Her mother Myrna Belle Plouffe (going off the 1940 census and her birth index listing) seems to have later remarried and was known as Myrna Bowditch at her death the in early 2000s. I wonder if "Barker" is a transcription error.

 

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Can’t find this record at all. Where did you find it out of interest?

 

She was first married to a man with the last name "Salven" (per father's obituary in 1960), and then searching the California Marriage Index under that name brings up another marriage to a Julius Krauss in 1963. Public records show her DOB to match the IMBD month and day, but the year given is 1924. Last living in Palos Verdes Estates, CA.

 

Also was curious and started to look at Rand Harper, but that one looks like a tough one. I wonder if it was a stage name.

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

11 hours ago, edm88 said:

 

Yes - going off the obituary of her father, John Asa Barber (1916-1997), it states his daughter to be "Bonni De Long" of Oregon. The US Public Records Index entry under that name matches the 10 Sep 1938 DOB. Her mother Myrna Belle Plouffe (going off the 1940 census and her birth index listing) seems to have later remarried and was known as Myrna Bowditch at her death the in early 2000s. I wonder if "Barker" is a transcription error.

 

 

She was first married to a man with the last name "Salven" (per father's obituary in 1960), and then searching the California Marriage Index under that name brings up another marriage to a Julius Krauss in 1963. Public records show her DOB to match the IMBD month and day, but the year given is 1924. Last living in Palos Verdes Estates, CA.

 

Also was curious and started to look at Rand Harper, but that one looks like a tough one. I wonder if it was a stage name.

This is brilliant digging! I've updated the list on the previous page with the info. Thanks!

[edm88 72]

And 2 more:

 

Rian Garrick aka William Kaye: still living in 2014 per his brother's obituary: https://www.timesonline.com/article/20140924/Obituaries/309249932.

 

His father's obituary (attached - from https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=QLZAdv6BrvsC&dat=19821202&printsec=frontpage&hl=en on Dec 2, 1982) confirms that William M. Kaye (aka McKaye) = Rian Garrick (also known in public records as Rian Kaye, William Garrick, etc). Another sister died in 2020 but her obituary doesn't mention her siblings.

 

Also, this appears to be Jerry Holmes: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/196671294/gerald-holmes-stalnaker.

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

Thanks @edm88.

I've submitted the deaths of Roux, Tate and Holmes with supporting evidence to IMDb for updates.

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

@Octopus of Odstock Inconclusive but got a good feeling this is our man...

James Taylor
b. 7 Apr 1925 in Ashton-in-Makerfield, EN (Hugman's)

Several Ancestry family trees such as this one have this fellow:
James Taylor
b. 7 Apr 1925 in Warrington, Lancashire, EN
m. Margery Barker in 1946 in Leigh, Lancashire, EN
d. 15 Aug 2000 in Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa

Photo of him:



No mention of being a footballer in the family trees.

It has his occupation as apprentice and tool room fitter in 1939. His address at that time was 8 Grosvenor Gardens, Newton-in-Makerfield.
Ashton-in-Makerfield and Warrington are 20 minutes away (8-9 miles) from each other. Looking at the birth index, there is nobody called James Taylor born in 1925 in Ashton. But the Warrington birth is listed there. So possibly wrong birthplace info on Hugman's?

[Predictor 1,018]

Does anyone know if Patricia Dainton (12 Apr 1930) is still alive?

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

7 minutes ago, Predictor said:

Does anyone know if Patricia Dainton (12 Apr 1930) is still alive?

Yeah, still about. Appeared in a documentary series in 2016.

Here's a clip of her. Looking good for her age then:
 

 

[Predictor 1,018]

5 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Yeah, still about. Appeared in a documentary series in 2016.

Here's a clip of her. Looking good for her age then:
 

 

Thanks Adrian, but I dunno why I have a feeling that she's dead. Would it be easy to check in Scottish records if she were?

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

5 minutes ago, Predictor said:

Thanks Adrian, but I dunno why I have a feeling that she's dead. Would it be easy to check in Scottish records if she were?

I'm Ulitzer, not Adrian.

I've just checked Scotland's People 2016–2021 and she's not there. Possibly lives in England now though.

If you need further proof of her being alive, Talking Pictures shared a post about the docu series in January on Facebook and they talk about Dainton in the present tense...

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

@Octopus of Odstock

Not sure how this one escaped you tbh!

Eric Searle 

b. Eric Frederick Searle 20 Jul 1925, Guildford, Surrey, EN (Hugman's)

UK Electoral Register:
 

Name	Eric F Searle
Birth	1924-1926
Residence	2004-2005 Guildford, Surrey, England

Died in late 2015 as per the GRO Index:
 

SEARLE, ERIC  FREDERICK	1925
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2015 in SURREY  (759-1E)  Entry Number 512994421

Edit: That's me now completed 1925. I'll start on 1926 later tonight or tomorrow. Trying not to rush this, as there is information out there but it's easy to miss stuff if you go through it too quickly.

[edm88 72]

I believe I have finally solved Rand Harper!

 

Per the clipping attached from The Hopkins County Echo, November 7, 1952, an AP-syndicated section "Stars on the Horizon" identifies Harper as Ronald Harnack of the University of Southern California (as I suspected, a stage name). Further clippings (from LA Times, 19 Oct 1953) identify Harper as being a UCLA student.

 

That also matches this clipping from the Valley Times, October 4, 1952, which states Harnack went to UCLA and was an actor. The photo also perfectly matches this photo of Harper (https://www.aveleyman.com/ActorCredit.aspx?ActorID=7473). Furthermore, there are clippings from 1953 stating Harper was in the US Air Force (from 21 May 1953 LA Times).

 

This perfectly matches with Ronald Selden Harnack, born August 7, 1929 (matching Harper's IMDB DOB), died Jan 5, 2016: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157522009/ronald-selden-harnack.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

8 hours ago, Ulitzer95 said:

@Octopus of Odstock

Not sure how this one escaped you tbh!

Eric Searle 

b. Eric Frederick Searle 20 Jul 1925, Guildford, Surrey, EN (Hugman's)

UK Electoral Register:
 

Name	Eric F Searle
Birth	1924-1926
Residence	2004-2005 Guildford, Surrey, England

Died in late 2015 as per the GRO Index:
 

SEARLE, ERIC  FREDERICK	1925
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2015 in SURREY  (759-1E)  Entry Number 512994421

Edit: That's me now completed 1925. I'll start on 1926 later tonight or tomorrow. Trying not to rush this, as there is information out there but it's easy to miss stuff if you go through it too quickly.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure too. But sometimes they do dribble through (Pun maybe intended). Thanks for this and Taylor, I'll update the main page shortly.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

8 minutes ago, edm88 said:

I believe I have finally solved Rand Harper!

 

Per the clipping attached from The Hopkins County Echo, November 7, 1952, an AP-syndicated section "Stars on the Horizon" identifies Harper as Ronald Harnack of the University of Southern California (as I suspected, a stage name). Further clippings (from LA Times, 19 Oct 1953) identify Harper as being a UCLA student.

 

That also matches this clipping from the Valley Times, October 4, 1952, which states Harnack went to UCLA and was an actor. The photo also perfectly matches this photo of Harper (https://www.aveleyman.com/ActorCredit.aspx?ActorID=7473). Furthermore, there are clippings from 1953 stating Harper was in the US Air Force (from 21 May 1953 LA Times).

 

This perfectly matches with Ronald Selden Harnack, born August 7, 1929 (matching Harper's IMDB DOB), died Jan 5, 2016: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157522009/ronald-selden-harnack.

 

This is quite stunningly amazing research, thank you so much!

 

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

1 hour ago, edm88 said:

I believe I have finally solved Rand Harper!

 

Per the clipping attached from The Hopkins County Echo, November 7, 1952, an AP-syndicated section "Stars on the Horizon" identifies Harper as Ronald Harnack of the University of Southern California (as I suspected, a stage name). Further clippings (from LA Times, 19 Oct 1953) identify Harper as being a UCLA student.

 

That also matches this clipping from the Valley Times, October 4, 1952, which states Harnack went to UCLA and was an actor. The photo also perfectly matches this photo of Harper (https://www.aveleyman.com/ActorCredit.aspx?ActorID=7473). Furthermore, there are clippings from 1953 stating Harper was in the US Air Force (from 21 May 1953 LA Times).

 

This perfectly matches with Ronald Selden Harnack, born August 7, 1929 (matching Harper's IMDB DOB), died Jan 5, 2016: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157522009/ronald-selden-harnack.

 

Impressive, bravo. I've also sent this on to IMDb with the supporting evidence and updated the list on the previous page!

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

@Octopus of Odstock, one more find before I go to bed.

Fred Smith

Hugman's:
Frederick Edward Smith
b. 7 May 1926 Draycott (Derbyshire), EN

Ancestry family tree here has him:
Frederick Edward Smith
b. 27 May 1926 Draycott (Derbyshire), EN
d. 6 Dec 2017 Wollongong, New South Wales, Australia

The family tree even mentions he was a footballer and links to his Wikipedia page.

Notice the slight difference in the DOB (27 vs. 7). Firstly we can rule out a mix up of different people. Looking at the birth index for 1926, there is only one Frederick E Smith born anywhere around there – birth registered 2nd quarter in Shardlow (then the registrar office that included Draycott). So begs the question of whether Hugman's or the family tree carries the erroneous birth date? You may have to order his birth certificate to get the correct birth date.
 

[edm88 72]

And based off this following clipping from the Los Angeles Evening Citizen News, 9 Feb 1946 which suggests a 1932/1931 YOB (rather than 1933) for Jimmy Crane, I am fairly certain that he is James Justin Crane, born 4 Oct 1931 in San Francisco, died 5 Sep 1996, per Social Security Records. The day and month of the IMDB date match as does the birth place, though I can't prove the link conclusively. He is buried in Nevada: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102242043/james-justin-crane.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

Excellent work guys. Thank you so much for this. 

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

On 19/04/2021 at 00:25, edm88 said:

And based off this following clipping from the Los Angeles Evening Citizen News, 9 Feb 1946 which suggests a 1932/1931 YOB (rather than 1933) for Jimmy Crane, I am fairly certain that he is James Justin Crane, born 4 Oct 1931 in San Francisco, died 5 Sep 1996, per Social Security Records. The day and month of the IMDB date match as does the birth place, though I can't prove the link conclusively. He is buried in Nevada: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102242043/james-justin-crane.

 

Thanks @edm88. I've updated the previous page on the Forum and also submitted to IMDb for approval.

So far they've updated the Jerry Holmes and Jacques Roux pages. Still waiting on the other 3 to get the green light.

[Ulitzer95 12,643]

@Octopus of Odstock

Ray McKee

Given you quite a few deaths, so here's a spot of better news. Ray McKee is likely still alive.

Hugman's: Raymond Trevor McKee b. 16 June 1926 Plaistow, London

This is correct as per the Records though they should add Essex behind Plaistow (that's where it was at the time... now in East London ofc) as there are other places called Plaistow... in Kent and Sussex for example.

So he was still living in Essex, Romford to be precise, as of 2010:

 

Name	Mr Raymond T McKee
Birth	1924-1926
Residence	2003-2010 Romford, Essex, England

 

Doesn't appear in the GRO Index up to 2019 or the Probates up to 2021.

Also listed on 192 People as still at the Romford address as of 2017 (doesn't always list the most recent years so that's the most recent confirmation I can solidly give).