dead Queen Elizabeth II

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

As Charles II didn't become King until after Cromwell's death, it's hard to see what 'punishment' he suffered.

From memory, his corpse was exhumed, then hung, drawn and quartered and displayed as a warning to others. A symbolic punishment, but one nevertheless.

[Guest One Man Jury]

From memory, his corpse was exhumed, then hung, drawn and quartered and displayed as a warning to others. A symbolic punishment, but one nevertheless.

Blimey, were you there then?

[Dr Strangelove 14]

As Charles II didn't become King until after Cromwell's death, it's hard to see what 'punishment' he suffered.

From memory, his corpse was exhumed, then hung, drawn and quartered and displayed as a warning to others. A symbolic punishment, but one nevertheless.

Okay, maybe I wrong about that. But talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[Captain Oates 21]

In response to Captain Oates.....

 

1. I am merely responding to the criticism that I was " a bit thick".

Sorted! (click here)

2. Spelling/typos are easy mistakes to make, especially when one is typing a large piece at speed.

Agreed. So use the Preview and the Edit buttons.

3. Anyone with a basic grip of UG English degrees would realise it is one the whole the study of literary genius and criticism, and not one big spelling test.

...and punctuation?

4. I was quoting from history reasons why the institution of the monarchy is great.

5. Queen Elizabeth II is even greater than Elizabeth I, as I have already conceded. She is without a shadow of a doubt the greatest monarch ever to reign over is. She is regal, wise, beloved and stands for the tradition of the monarchy that was passed onto her by her grandfather King George V and her grandmother, the indominable Queen Mary.

The monarchy will only ever be as good as the incumbent monarch (and family).

6. There has never been any official evidence to back up the supposedly frosty relationship between Baroness Thatcher and Her Majesty. This will not be known for certain until many years after the Queen's death when her diaries are finally published and we will know for sure. Signs show that the Queen does actually like Mrs Thatcher...when she retired from the House of Commons she was elevated to the Peerage and, more significantly, she is a Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter- a privellage that is the highest order of chivalry in the land and also one that only Her Majesty can give to 24 members. This suggests that actually the Queen did approve. There was no reason for her to have to elevate Mrs Thatcher in this way and rank her along side people such as Lord Edmund Hillary and the (current) Duke of Wellington.

- Sir Edmund Percival Hillary, KG, ONZ, KBE, born July 1915

- Arthur Valerian Wellesley, 8th Duke of Wellington, KG, LVO, OBE, MC, DL, born July 1915.

Both are possible candidates for the 2006 DeathList.

7. I believe that we should encourage people to help themselves. We should not tax higher earners as harshly. Nay we should stop people becoming dependent on the state. Read the Conservative's election manifesto, it is enlightening.

I have just done so, and now there is absolutely no chance that I will vote for that bunch of twits.

8. What has the history course got to do with the price of fish? Answer- Nothing. My views are my views. We were told, objectively about the history of Britain and America in the 20th Century. In fact most of the views that we got were socialist, leftist historians, such as the Labour peer Lord Kenneth O. Morgan. I made my own mind up about what I thought. I just happened to believe that the 80s was a zenith in the world's history. Mr Reagan and Mrs Thatcher changed the world. They ended the Soviet bloc's control over Eastern Europe and together made the USA and UK great once more.

...so you don't listen to your teachers. Perhaps you are a rebel at heart?

 

Welcome to the DeathList, Simon!

Do you have any thoughts on who might peg it before the end of 2006?

 

[Guest Guest_Simon I]

Couldn't be bothered logging in for just one post...

 

In response to Lady Grendel....

 

The monarchy deserves to be kept in the lifestyle to which it is for numerous reasons. Perhaps the most important is the fact that they are appointed by God and are answerable only to God (even moreso than the Pope in my opinion...and that's from a Catholic!)

 

Also, it is part of tradition and history. This is a trait which I feel that Britons have by the bucketload. We are a great nation and should be proud of who we are. We can still develop to become a multi-cultural, diverse and cosmopoliton country; however I believe that keeping a grip on our national identity is extremely important.

 

The monarchy is a respected institution. Her Majesty the Queen is one of the most revered women in the modern world. She has developed from the Empire's "dear little princess Elizabeth" to quote a popular 1930/40s song to become a wise, dignified and beloved old lady who continues to tirelessly serve her country.

 

An example of the royal family being cost-effective...Princess Anne- who wore to the wedding of the Prince and Princess of Wales a suit that she has worn previously. This is no different to the rest of her mother's subjects who re-use items of clothing for special occasions. Sadly, I came across this fact whilst perusing the Daily Express newspaper in which she was criticised for re-using suits. It appears that she cannot win. If she'd spent money on an extravagent new outfit she would have also been criticised.

 

Never was the nation's selfishness more apparent than after the 1992 Windsor fire. The nation flatly refused to pay for the damage caused to an old lady's home even though she couldn't afford it herself. I wonder if any of your mothers/grandparents' houses burnt down whether you would be okay if any financial help was given?

 

Re. the comment about the national anthem...of course it's okay!!! We can't go around holding grudges forever. Perhaps as a Scottish woman you would rather it had been left in and still sung proudly by the English, which is of course the alternative? We must learn to "bury the hatchet" as they say...I mean imagine if the Entente Cordiale had never been signed, we'd still hate the French. It's as silly as saying that we should hate the Germans- I mean the Nazis aren't in power any more, but they were in charge just sixty years ago!

 

In response to Captain Oates.....

 

Yes I realise how old Sir Edmund Hillary is- really quite sad actually, such a great man. As for the Duke of Wellington; don't know much about him but I was just showing how elite the KG's are. The fact that Baroness Thatcher was elevated to the same level as the descendent of the Iron Duke on the Queen's own invitation should highlight the fact that the Queen was not altogether against her.

 

The Conservatives are the only right choice for Britain- I for one am sick to death with higher taxes and lies of the Labour govt. and the Tories are the only credible opposition. The Lib Dems are wrong in their policies. I heard with dread last Wednesday about the proposals for the Local Income Tax. It was shown on the BBC that even though a family earning about £20,000 a year would be £400 better off p/a. A family earning £200,000 a year would end up being over £6000 WORSE off! I ask you credibly how that can possibly be fair- answer it CANNOT. Sadly, no system of taxing will ever be seen as "fair" by all. I though am of the opinion that everyone should be taxed equally regardless of income, maybe raise indirect, rather than direct taxes (as done by Mrs T!) which would mean everyone's taxes were raised the same.

 

Again though I agree that people have different political views which is the great thing about democracy- there is no law against this. However the Treason Act 1351 says that it is a crime (then and still until 1998) punishable by death to act in any way against the monarch. And being a strong believer in upholding the law I believe that this particular law should be enforced much more vigorously.

 

Simon

 

P.S. Yes Cromwell was originally buried in Westminster Abbey, however on the return of the Merry Monarch King Charles II he was exhumed, hung drawn and quartered and his body thrown into a ditch. His head was kept and is currently in some university. The rest of the regicides of King Charles I were also executed by being HDQ. The just punishment for the most heinous criminal offence in all of British history.

 

P.P.S. Of course one of my A-levels was history!

 

P.P.P.S. Not big headed just lashing out when attacked!

 

P.P.P.P.S. Hmmm death list 2006- interesting. I'll have to have a think about that. Patrick Moore perhaps.

 

S.

[Boudicca 702]

Also, it is part of tradition and history. This is a trait which I feel that Britons have by the bucketload.

 

I mean imagine if the Entente Cordiale had never been signed, we'd still hate the French.

 

So that's one more British tradition down the drain, then?

[football_fan 42]

...the Poll Tax was the greatest thing to come from the 1979-90 govts. It was fair and produced equality for all, rather than penalising the "forgotten majority" of Middle Britain for earning more and having higher paid, professional jobs.

The introduction of the poll tax was the beginning of the end for Margaret Thatcher's reign as Prime Minister and its fallout directly led to her resignation in 1990. It was one of the most unpopular taxes ever to be introduced in Britain.

 

poll tax

 

Politicians of the governing Conservative Party came to the conclusion that their party was doomed to electoral defeat if the tax remained and that there was no prospect of its abandonment while Mrs Thatcher remained leader... On November 22 1990 Mrs Thatcher resigned and all three contenders to succeed her pledged to abandon the tax.

The monarchy deserves to be kept in the lifestyle to which it is for numerous reasons. Perhaps the most important is the fact that they are appointed by God and are answerable only to God (even moreso than the Pope in my opinion...and that's from a Catholic!)

The British monarchy appointed by God??? Heaven help us!!

[Tuber Mirum 125]

...the Poll Tax was the greatest thing to come from the 1979-90 govts.

The introduction of the poll tax was the beginning of the end for Margaret Thatcher's reign as Prime Minister

Makes perfect sense to my (highly-logical) mind

[Terminator 13]

Sadly, I came across this fact whilst perusing the Daily Express newspaper....

The Express explains a lot about your "weltanschauung"....

 

At least, there's hope. It's good to know that you acknowledge this as being "sad"

[football_fan 42]

Never was the nation's selfishness more apparent than after the 1992 Windsor fire. The nation flatly refused to pay for the damage caused to an old lady's home even though she couldn't afford it herself. I wonder if any of your mothers/grandparents' houses burnt down whether you would be okay if any financial help was given?

 

She could not afford it?? Queen Elizabeth II is the 10th wealthiest woman in the world according to Forbes magazine. The initial damage estimate from the Windsor Castle fire was between £40m and £60m and Queen Elizabeth II was very capable of paying for its restoration without relying on the British taxpayers, but she still wanted them to pay the entire bill. It was only after the huge initial outcry from the public that she agreed to pay approximately 70% of the restoration cost with the government footing the rest of the bill.

 

Windsor Castle - five years from disaster to triumph

[honez 79]

The monarchy deserves to be kept in the lifestyle to which it is for numerous reasons. Perhaps the most important is the fact that they are appointed by God and are answerable only to God

Read: It is okay for them to take money directly from the pay and pockets of everyone else, because the one particular supernatural deity that they support says that they can.

 

And of course, we've only got their word for this, because this particular supernatural deity hasn't said a peep for a few thousand years if at all. If and when He did have something to say, I don't recall any mention in the bible about what He had to say about the English monarchy. It's especially thin on the ground for anything concerning the mornarchy having some kind of divine right to live like parasites, sucking tax revenue away from hospitals, schools, etc. where funds are needed far more desperately than the 10th richest woman in the world needs a top-up payment.

 

I'd like to see anyone else use that argument when claiming the dole.

"I don't have to work because I am appointed by my particular God to do nothing--and you have to pay me a huge fat paycheck to do it. Oh, by the way, when I want to retire, my son will take over and take other people's money too. This is because my particular God says we should continue my dole dynasty for ever and ever, amen. And don't bother to ask me any questions, because I'm only answerable to my own god."

 

Next time you're walking past the dole office. why not pop in and see how far you get using that tactic?

[Dr Strangelove 14]

One of the reasons QEII is a good Queen is because she takes pains to be uncontroversial. Take her somnolent Christmas speeches which have no meaning at all.

With you moronic tirades Simon you have managed to unite both the hardcore Republicans and moderate supporters of a constitutional Monarchy (IE the ones who think a Monarchy is better than president Blair) against you.

 

Nice going, are you a descendant of Charles the first by the way?

[Guest One Man Jury]

Nice going, are you a descendant of Charles the first by the way?

I can see the similarity - no head equals no brains.

[Dr Strangelove 14]

The rest of the regicides of King Charles I were also executed by being HDQ. The just punishment for the most heinous criminal offence in all of British history.

Let's take a look at say the first ten Regicides -

 

John Bradshaw - Exhumed after the Restoration and hung in chains at Tyburn.

Lord Grey of Groby - He was arrested on suspicion of plotting against the Commonwealth and imprisoned at Windsor Castle, where he died in 1657, aged 34.

Edward Whalley – Fled to New England survived in Massachusetts until at least 1674

Sir Michael Livesey - Fled to the Netherlands where he was attacked and killed by Royalists in 1660.

John Okey -Okey fled to the Netherlands. He was extradited by George Downing and hanged, drawn and quartered with John Barkstead and Miles Corbet in 1662

Sir John Danvers -Died in 1655

Henry Ireton -Exhumed after the Restoration and hanged at Tyburn

Sir Hardress Waller -Fled to France, then decided to surrender himself. Though he was condemned to death, his cousin Sir William Waller interceded for him, and the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment on Jersey, where he died in 1666.

 

So as you can see they weren't all HDQ, but why bother with research. Making sweeping statements is much more fun.

P.P.P.P.S. Hmmm death list 2006- interesting. I'll have to have a think about that. Patrick Moore perhaps.

Well he's on the Deathlist already but apart from that nice try

[Dr Strangelove 14]

The just punishment for the most heinous criminal offence in all of British history.

I would have said the most heinous criminal offence in all of British history was King John giving the whole country to the pope, just so he could rent it back again. Obviously an early form of PFI.

[Guest Death List Observer]

While Her Majesty will turn 80 next year, speculation regarding her death is nonsense. The speculation is purely due to her age, without regard to her considerably good health and family history of longevity (Yes, Princess Margaret was only 71, but she had smoked for years.). Should Queen Elizabeth II follow in Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's footsteps, she may reign for longer than 20 to 25 more years - giving Britain a reign spanning, perhaps, 80 years.

[lospalmas7 12]

I don't like the way Death List Observer is always discussing the likelihood of celebrity deaths. It doesn't seem in the spirit of the forum.

[Guest Guest_Simon I]

In response to the Queen's wealth. I'd like to direct all of you to a book entitled...

 

"Queen and Country" by William Shawcross pp202-204 (ISBN: 0563537868)

 

"[Lord] Airlie gave a press conference at the time [of the fire in 1992] in which he said that even the estimate of £100 million [the Queen's wealth] was a 'gross exaggeration'". Lord Airlie of course being a close friend and confidante of Her Majesty until his death in 2001.

 

Glad to see you are all sooo generous and kind. Maybe I am not the 'moron'.

 

 

It was a generalisation...maybe the regicides weren't all HDQ, although most of those still in Britain (dead or alive) were punished in a particularly gruesome way. I feel that it is nit-picking at its most picky to raise that point.

 

 

Of course I'm not a descendent of Charles I, although it would be nice. Such a great monarch IMO. He is one of my favourite monarchs of all time, such a pity what happened on Jan 30th 1649!

 

 

I would never walk into a dole office...I wouldn't know what sort of diseases I would walk out with...or what had been stolen from me!

 

 

Moronic. Nope not at all. I am just a die-hard monarchist. By no means a fascist or bigot. I despise fascism as much as communism- however it angers me that the monarchy has been treated so badly over the centuries. Her Majesty, the greatest monarch (which I presume everyone agrees with) ever has felt it more than most- she has no real power and has had to put up with some s**t when as guesty says "she has tried her best to remain uncontroversial" or something like that.

 

 

Yes, personally I believe that the Monarch is a mystical figure and I for one believe that he or she is a quasi-religious figure, who as head of the Church of England and national figurehead deserves to be kept in a regal and lavish lifestyle. A leadership figure is required in every country- the failures of "communism" as a theory have shown us that. It is my firm belief that having a Royal Family, steeped in history, pomp and circumstance who we can praise and worship binds and unites the country more than a would be president. Imagine how little respect George W Bush would have in the UK from a majority of people (myself not included I hasten to add), if we had a system similar to the USA. The country would be divided...awful. Although we may all be divided about the political figures we all have a common friend and figurehead in Her Majesty the Queen which I feel benefits us all immensely.

 

 

GOD SAVE HER MAJESTY

[Guest Guest_Simon I]

P.S.

 

I fully accept what King John did. Although he was a weak King and a looser, he was still the King, and I accept his decision.

 

Killing a King though, is not acceptable! The ambitious upstarts that were the Parliamentarians!

[Captain Oates 21]

Some of them just won't die...

[lospalmas7 12]

Firstly, if we had a presidential system no one would even vote for the likes of George W. Secondly, do you seriously believe that the Queen was appointed by God? How do you figure that out?

[Guest Guest_Simon I]

Obviously not appointed by God.

 

I do though believe that when she is annointed with the chrism at the Coronation ceremony she is made holy and blessed. She takes on a religious and spiritual role as head of the nation. Metaphorically she is thus appointed by God through the annointing.

 

It is not such a silly thing as some of you keep going on about. It is just as I believe as a Catholic in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine in the Eucharist at mass.

 

However, I also do not believe in totalitarian monarchy as with the Angevin and Norman dynesties. That is bordering on fascism and can lead to corruption. Though I do not for a moment believe that our current Queen would ever do such a thing even she did have the power- some of her descendents may.

 

I just wish that the Queen had slightly more power- such as the right to refuse assent to bills that she deems unfit or the power to deliberately intervene in political conundrums such as the Iraqi war. If not publically then she should be permitted to unconditionally express her views to the politicians.

 

I also think it is wrong how people criticise the monarchy so much when they are always constitutionally correct and they never intervene in people's lives etc. as the govt. does.

 

I may have come across slightly too harshly but it infuriates me at the fickleness of people. They criticise the govt. who they themselves elect. The opposite would be the Queen who is unelected yet they criticise her also. There is no pleasing some folk!

 

 

Simon

[Captain Oates 21]

Firstly, if we had a presidential system no one would even vote for the likes of George W. Secondly, do you seriously believe that the Queen was appointed by God? How do you figure that out?

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

 

If the monarchy did not exist, it would be necessary for Simon to invent it.

 

I don't see why he cannot therefore believe that the monarch is appointed by God, if he wants to.

 

Hmmm....

 

An invented monarch sounds suspiciously like a president - so perhaps the President is also appointed by God.

 

I wonder if Simon also believes in the re-incarnation of the royals - in the manner of the Dalai Lama?

[Tuber Mirum 125]

An invented monarch sounds suspiciously like a president - so perhaps the President is also appointed by God.

Of course he bloody well is!

[Lady Grendel 139]

I for one will never support an archaic (monarchy)poliitician [snip], they swan about the world, first class, spending millions of pounds of our money on unnecessary luxuries, treating us all as 'serfs' who should be honoured to meet them,  can't remember the last time I had to take a helicopter to work!!!!  Perhaps if they scaled down the luxuries,[snip] went out to work or had to sign on the dole (I personally would love to see Blair e.t.c. surviving on £87 a week)  people would think better of them,

Sorry My Lady, had to alter some of your post so that it made more sense.

No need to apologise Sir Josco!! But perhaps you should check your spelling of politician, gives more meaning to the phrase 'the ayes have it'.