Guest One Man Jury Posted February 4, 2005 You just can't see it can you? If it's such a needless and silly discussion, then why are you compelled to contribute to it. I think the whole point of this is to say something controversial, not if it's true or whether you believe it or not, and then sit back and wait for the flood of chronic replies from people like yourself who can't resist taking the bait. DOH! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuber Mirum 125 Posted February 4, 2005 Seeing as how Schmeling and Hitler didn't get along, and he was never a Nazi, you're description of him isn't really very accurate. Interesting to note that it was a guest who first mentioned the possibility of him being a Nazi. His Deathlist job description is "Hitler's Boxer (or maybe not)" which could be interpreted in many ways. Nowhere is he described as a Nazi. I suppose if he was a member of the NDSAP, then he could be called a Nazi or an ex-Nazi. I don't know if this was the case, but the Deathlist didn't call him one. That title is reserved for someone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator 13 Posted February 4, 2005 Everyone is different. Those who lived in such difficult times, and particularly the great cannot easily be compartmentalised. How can you be throwing round big words like "compartmentalised", when all it means is putting people into boxes......oh, I get it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator 13 Posted February 4, 2005 He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts. It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair. So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims. How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not? Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop? Whay can't we just all get along........... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuber Mirum 125 Posted February 4, 2005 Whay can't we just all get along........... Tell that to Larry and Amanda. But make sure you spell it correctly first! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted February 4, 2005 He was definitely not a nazi... no need for speculation here, just have a look at the historical facts. It's okay for me to make jokes about germans, but people should try to be fair. So, El Loco, are you the guardian of the Nazi party membership list? If not, you make pretty big omniscient claims. How can you say, one way or the other, that Max was either a member or not? Also, what makes it OK for you to make jokes about Germans? Did they bomb your chipshop? Whay can't we just all get along........... Terminator: Being a nazi and being a member of the nazi party isn't necessarily the same thing... right? Schindler...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator 13 Posted February 4, 2005 Terminator: Being a nazi and being a member of the nazi party isn't necessarily the same thing... right? Schindler...? Thank you for stating the blindingly obvious. If you looked at what I was responding to, you'd see that it was the earlier contributor (which I quoted) that made the "uber-confident" statement that the late Max Schmelling was definately NOT a nazi. I merely questioned the veracity of that statement. As for Schindler, he was a wartime opportunist who was in a position to exploit the new "workforce" made available to him. Bear in mind that war crimes charges were brought against him because of his "activities". I do accept that his retention of some humanity meant that a number of jews were saved from execution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Larry Pestilence III 6 Posted February 4, 2005 Tell that to Larry and Amanda. Oh hell, are we an item now? But make sure you spell it correctly first! Absolutely! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
janKG 0 Posted February 4, 2005 Where's the point in discussing this. Let's keep to the historical facts: Max Schmeling was a boxer. He boxed before Hitler was in power and he boxed after it. Yes, the Nazis used Schmeling for propaganda, but they used everyone for it, not only Schmeling. They even stopped, to use him, after he lost against "the black man" Joe Louis. He was as much "Hitler's Boxer" as any butcher, who appeared in a propaganda movie was "Hitler's Butcher". Because he did embarass the government so much with losing, he was sent on suicidal Army missions. As long as you haven't been in Germany during that time, you (and I) will never comprehend what unimaginable happened there. So please remove this unfounded statement of him being "Hitler's Boxer" and just make him a "German Boxer". Oh and please, as long, as you have no clue about the 3rd Reich, Hitler, the Holocaust and everything that happend here in Germany in this period, don't make statements about it. For your information I really recommend reading what Wikipedia has to say about these topics. /Edit: Terminator, I'm not stating anything "uber-confidently". I'm just stating the historical facts. And they say, that Schmeling wasn't a Nazi, that he was in fact against the Nazis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest One Man Jury Posted February 4, 2005 Where's the point in discussing this.Let's keep to the historical facts: Max Schmeling was a boxer. He boxed before Hitler was in power and he boxed after it. Yes, the Nazis used Schmeling for propaganda, but they used everyone for it, not only Schmeling. They even stopped, to use him, after he lost against "the black man" Joe Louis. He was as much "Hitler's Boxer" as any butcher, who appeared in a propaganda movie was "Hitler's Butcher". Because he did embarass the government so much with losing, he was sent on suicidal Army missions. As long as you haven't been in Germany during that time, you (and I) will never comprehend what unimaginable happened there. So please remove this unfounded statement of him being "Hitler's Boxer" and just make him a "German Boxer". Oh and please, as long, as you have no clue about the 3rd Reich, Hitler, the Holocaust and everything that happend here in Germany in this period, don't make statements about it. For your information I really recommend reading what Wikipedia has to say about these topics. You're just having a go pal 'cos we beat you in the 1966 World Cup Final! Just get over it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
janKG 0 Posted February 4, 2005 You're just having a go pal 'cos we beat you in the 1966 World Cup Final! Just get over it! Ignoring it.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magere Hein 1,400 Posted February 4, 2005 You're just having a go pal 'cos we beat you in the 1966 World Cup Final! Just get over it! Ignoring it.... This is rapidly becoming one of those "Don't mention the war" skits. regards, Hein (who mentioned it once, but thinks he got away with it) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest One Man Jury Posted February 4, 2005 You're just having a go pal 'cos we beat you in the 1966 World Cup Final! Just get over it! Ignoring it.... This is rapidly becoming one of those "Don't mention the war" skits. regards, Hein (who mentioned it once, but thinks he got away with it) Hein, Yes, well he started it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator 13 Posted February 4, 2005 You're just having a go pal 'cos we beat you in the 1966 World Cup Final! Just get over it! Ignoring it.... This is rapidly becoming one of those "Don't mention the war" skits. regards, Hein (who mentioned it once, but thinks he got away with it) Hein, Yes, well he started it. Don't be so touchy and defensive. After all, it was a long time ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted February 4, 2005 Please -- remove the "Hitler's Nazi" description. It's unfair and disrespectful to Mr. Schmeling. Read some of the news stories and you can see why: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._obit_schmeling From, Person who lost family members in the Holocaust. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuber Mirum 125 Posted February 4, 2005 Please -- remove the "Hitler's Nazi" description. It's unfair and disrespectful to Mr. Schmeling. So "boxer" is synonymous with "Nazi"? I can think of a few well-built fellows who might feel inclined to take you to task on that one. It certainly explains a few of the rants we've had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest One Man Jury Posted February 4, 2005 The description has been there for ages. Why is it suddenly disrespectful today when we know he's dead rather than yesterday when we thought he was still alive, when it might (or might not) have actually caused him some offence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator 13 Posted February 4, 2005 The description has been there for ages. Why is it suddenly disrespectful today when we know he's dead rather than yesterday when we thought he was still alive, when it might (or might not) have actually caused him some offence. I think you'll find that no real thought or bother was taken in the health of Max Schmeling by these "guests" while he was alive. Perhaps it's some sort of Germanic catharsis to defend the honour of a fallen comrade, despite not knowing all of the facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death Watch Beatle 41 Posted February 4, 2005 When Max finally goes, how about the headline: Schmeling to High Heaven! DWB Now would seem an appropriate time to resurrect, if you like, the headline I posted some time ago. Not a bad effort I thought. DWB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IYG Posted February 4, 2005 Quite. He could have been a member of the Nazi Party, have saved Jewish children from death at the hands of other, bad Nazis, and also still have been Hitler's boxer (whatever that means anyway). Perhaps he collected milk-bottle tops too. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone is different. Those who lived in such difficult times, and particularly the great cannot easily be compartmentalised. From what I read about him, it appears as if Hitler and Nazi Germany made him "their" boxer. So the description of Hitler's Boxer or maybe not is fairly accurate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
janKG 0 Posted February 4, 2005 I think you'll find that no real thought or bother was taken in the health of Max Schmeling by these "guests" while he was alive. Perhaps it's some sort of Germanic catharsis to defend the honour of a fallen comrade, despite not knowing all of the facts. Yes sure.... It's us who don't know the facts. If you'd like to enlighten me, what facts I'm not aware of, I would really welcome it. I - for my part - protested against the description as soon as I found this website. And believe me, I really have a problem with it. Because every time someone - who is not aware of all the facts - especially people who are not living in Germany, and especially Americans and British (I don't have anything against you guys, but you are not what I would call informed about history) feel strengthened in their opinion, that every German is a Nazi, and that everything in Germany is as it was 60 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
janKG 0 Posted February 4, 2005 This is rapidly becoming one of those "Don't mention the war" skits. I don't see a problem with mentioning the war. As I see no problem with making jokes about it. Hein (who mentioned it once, but thinks he got away with it) I really like this episode It is really no problem when you are making jokes about it, AS LONG as you bare in mind the facts, and the crimes and misery during this period. I once talked to an American who was thinking, what he saw in Hogan's Heroes (it's a comedy about some prisoners of war in a German prison camp, who make themselves a good life because of the stupid camp commander) was the reality that so took place whilst WW II. He wasn't even aware of what happend, and how many people got murdered. And because of that, I have a problem with such statements put anywhere, without thinking about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teddy 21 Posted February 4, 2005 It appears that there are some things we can agree on: Max Schmeling was a boxer He was German He was used as a propaganda tool by Hitler, albeit apparently unwillingly Now, whether this then qualifies the description 'Hitler's Boxer' is open to debate. What is not is that this site has not described him as a Nazi in the description. In addition, anyone coming to this forum, and reading this thread, would, I believe, be left in no doubt that German does not equal Nazi, that membership of the Party did not automatically make you a genocidal maniac, that Max did help save Jewish children. In that respect, some people may actually learn something that challenges their opinions and prejudices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linuxgirl 0 Posted February 4, 2005 bye max - germany's favorite coca cola millionaire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nefertari Posted February 4, 2005 Max Schmeling is (or better) was only 99´years old, not already 100 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
