Who Do You Think Will Win The Democrat And Republican Nominations?

[Dave to the Grave 11]

Not wanting to join in other people disputes but perhaps this thread will prove G.B. Shaw right about 'countries divided by a common language'.

 

If we are honest I suspect we (in this case meaning non-Americans, well me and those in the axis of evil anyway), are only interested in this election in the expectation that a similar shambles will ensue as happened last time.

 

To an aside, I once saw a clip of rather excessive force being used on someone critical to John Kerry's reaction to that election, although I have always assumed/hoped it was a spoof. As with the whole weapons of mass destruction thingy, actions speak louder than words. Although are two big bombs worse than lots of little ones?

 

Edwin Starr ate my taser.

 

That's a rhyme.

 

Almost.

[deadsox 894]

You say "Romney is a Mormon" like there's something inherently wrong with that. You sound a bit bigoted W. Plus, we are the same God-fearing war mongers who saved you Brits in World War II. By the way, I am proud of the voters in my home state of New Hampshire. We turned out more than 525,000 strong, which is 40% of the entire electorate.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with being a mormon. You can have a wife to do the cleaning, another to do the cooking and another for the bedroom. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a mormon. Quite frankly, accusing me of being a bigot whilst defending the mormon church is a bit rich.

 

As for the whole war thing, you reaped your benefits. It had less to do with saving us Brits, and more to do with sustaining your economy so please do get off your high horse.

 

I can't remember criticising your state of New Hampshire -only the candidates thrown upon it.

 

First of all W, the official Mormon religion does not condone polygamy. You're very out-of-date on that point. Mitt has been married to the same single woman for longer than you've been alive. Although there are a few splinter groups which still hold with it, they are a tiny minority and not accepted by the mainstream. I'm not a Mormon but I do believe that you should find a better reason to dislike someone than their religion. Anyone can poke fun of any religion without much difficulty. I only referred to the WW II thing because there are a lot of Europeans (like you it seems) who seem to have a knee jerk hatred of the US. I'm merely refreshing your memories that there were a few times when y'all were glad to see us. Lastly, I didn't say that you criticized NH, I merely said I was proud of our turnout. I only wish that all states and countries could do the same.

[deadsox 894]

Have you ever read the history of the Mormon church? My word! If ever a religion was based on a flimsier premise.

 

You say "Romney is a Mormon" like there's something inherently wrong with that.

 

I have, Jack, and frankly I don't buy it. How many religions stand up to cold hard logic? Faith in God is something that you either have or you don't. I only think that bigotry in religion is not much more appealing than bigotry in race or any of the other stupid categories we put people into.

[deadsox 894]

You say "Romney is a Mormon" like there's something inherently wrong with that. You sound a bit bigoted W. Plus, we are the same God-fearing war mongers who saved you Brits in World War II. By the way, I am proud of the voters in my home state of New Hampshire. We turned out more than 525,000 strong, which is 40% of the entire electorate.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with being a mormon. You can have a wife to do the cleaning, another to do the cooking and another for the bedroom. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a mormon. Quite frankly, accusing me of being a bigot whilst defending the mormon church is a bit rich.

 

As for the whole war thing, you reaped your benefits. It had less to do with saving us Brits, and more to do with sustaining your economy so please do get off your high horse.

 

I can't remember criticising your state of New Hampshire -only the candidates thrown upon it.

 

 

we are the same God-fearing war mongers who saved you Brits in World War II

 

If it wasn't for us Brits, you'd all be speaking French over in the US.

The US only dragged themselves into WWII because they were taken by surprise by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor.

 

The US stayed out of WWI and WWII for as long as they possibly could. As soon as it affected them that's when they got off their butts and did something. As soon as the US go on their own little crusades, they expect other countries to sit up and take notice.

 

Romney being a mormom will affect his presidential election hopes.

Much in the same way that there was a controversy over Kennedy being a catholic.

There's no such thing as a seperation between church and state in the US. People still go to the polls and vote on a candidate based on their religion.

Bush Jr still believes that he was appointed by "God", I guess he doesn't believe in the so-called democracy that the US believes that they are the prime example to the world and instead are self-appointed cop, judge and jury for the rest of the world.

 

Romney being a Mormon may affect his presidential hopes but remember, Kennedy WON the election in spite of being Catholic. Most Americans will decide based on the candidate and their positions not race or religion. I completely disagree with your contention that there is no separation of church and state in the US. The separation is jealously guarded. The vast majority of Americans do not vote based upon religion. There are fewer and fewer Americans all the time who even practice one.

[Monoclinic 39]

First of all W, the official Mormon religion does not condone polygamy. You're very out-of-date on that point. Mitt has been married to the same single woman for longer than you've been alive. Although there are a few splinter groups which still hold with it, they are a tiny minority and not accepted by the mainstream. I'm not a Mormon but I do believe that you should find a better reason to dislike someone than their religion. Anyone can poke fun of any religion without much difficulty. I only referred to the WW II thing because there are a lot of Europeans (like you it seems) who seem to have a knee jerk hatred of the US. I'm merely refreshing your memories that there were a few times when y'all were glad to see us. Lastly, I didn't say that you criticized NH, I merely said I was proud of our turnout. I only wish that all states and countries could do the same.

 

 

Splitters

 

Apologies for diverting away from the serious highbrow debate, as usual.

[football_fan 42]

Not wanting to join in other people disputes but perhaps this thread will prove G.B. Shaw right about 'countries divided by a common language'.

 

If we are honest I suspect we (in this case meaning non-Americans, well me and those in the axis of evil anyway), are only interested in this election in the expectation that a similar shambles will ensue as happened last time.

 

To an aside, I once saw a clip of rather excessive force being used on someone critical to John Kerry's reaction to that election, although I have always assumed/hoped it was a spoof. As with the whole weapons of mass destruction thingy, actions speak louder than words. Although are two big bombs worse than lots of little ones?

 

Edwin Starr ate my taser.

 

That's a rhyme.

 

Almost.

 

Here is the clip of the

[Dave to the Grave 11]

Here is the clip of the

 

That's the one. The reason I thought it a spoof is the probably because the victim reminds me of

, which ties in quite nicely with Monoclinic's earlier contribution.

[Windsor 2,235]

I'm not a Mormon but I do believe that you should find a better reason to dislike someone than their religion.

 

Let me recap what I actually said.

 

I said that Obama would suffer for being black.

Clinton for being a woman.

McCain for his age.

Romney for being a mormon.

Huchabee for his 'religious excitment'.

 

Why did you zoom in on Romney? Are my other claims justified?

Also, these are not my personal views, but the problems I can see the American voter having with the candidates.

 

deadsox, didn't Joseph Kennedy buy the 1960 election for his son? Picked up a few extra votes for him in certain states? I was told this a few years ago by an Irish Catholic teacher (just incase you think I'm having a stab at the Catholics now).

[deadsox 894]

I'm not a Mormon but I do believe that you should find a better reason to dislike someone than their religion.

 

Let me recap what I actually said.

 

I said that Obama would suffer for being black.

Clinton for being a woman.

McCain for his age.

Romney for being a mormon.

Huchabee for his 'religious excitment'.

 

Why did you zoom in on Romney? Are my other claims justified?

Also, these are not my personal views, but the problems I can see the American voter having with the candidates.

 

deadsox, didn't Joseph Kennedy buy the 1960 election for his son? Picked up a few extra votes for him in certain states? I was told this a few years ago by an Irish Catholic teacher (just incase you think I'm having a stab at the Catholics now).

 

OK W, what you said is that the Republicans were "almost as bad as the Democrat ones". Your only comment about Romney is that he's a Mormon which indicates to me that you think being a Mormon is bad. If you meant to say that Americans think it's bad, you should have stated that more clearly. I would then have commented on it in that light. I focused on Romney because even though your problems with McCain (age) and Huckabee (Christian) aren't fair either, your comment that Romney is "bad" simply for being a Mormon seemed more egregious.

Yes, Joe K bought votes particularly in Illinois but JFK still got a lot of popular support and was a much loved president by most Americans..

Lastly, your contention that the US got into WWII simply to stimulate the economy is so ridiculous that I don't know where to begin to comment on it (while I do agree that it did stimulate the economy). I also don't ride horses, high or low.

[deadsox 894]

Not wanting to join in other people disputes but perhaps this thread will prove G.B. Shaw right about 'countries divided by a common language'.

 

If we are honest I suspect we (in this case meaning non-Americans, well me and those in the axis of evil anyway), are only interested in this election in the expectation that a similar shambles will ensue as happened last time.

 

To an aside, I once saw a clip of rather excessive force being used on someone critical to John Kerry's reaction to that election, although I have always assumed/hoped it was a spoof. As with the whole weapons of mass destruction thingy, actions speak louder than words. Although are two big bombs worse than lots of little ones?

 

Edwin Starr ate my taser.

 

That's a rhyme.

 

Almost.

 

Just for the record, Dave, I don't believe that the force used was excessive. He was being placed under arrest and if he didn't struggle and resist arrest he wouldn't have been tasered. Just my humble opinion.

[Banshees Scream 110]

Romney being a Mormon may affect his presidential hopes but remember, Kennedy WON the election in spite of being Catholic. Most Americans will decide based on the candidate and their positions not race or religion. I completely disagree with your contention that there is no separation of church and state in the US.

 

The Mormon religion will affect Romney because Joseph Smith never showed the Golden plates to anybody! Come on! The guys an idiot! At least he looks like a president.

 

But Dead Sox I agree with you along the lines of 'Americans generally don't vote based upon religion' and in my view any presidents mentality on the subject of religion should be 'Religion is personal' 'I will not enforce religious authority' and that was something Bill Richardson was strong with.

 

Anyway there is definitely a separation between church and state 'I'm sorry Phantom - Americans don't generally base their votes upon religion' they base them on mainly 'what has this individual done?' 'and what will they do for this country?' and recently somebody approached me with the question 'put Bill on the couch for a minute' - 'What has Hillary seriously done?

[Godot 149]

Not wanting to join in other people disputes but perhaps this thread will prove G.B. Shaw right about 'countries divided by a common language'.

 

If we are honest I suspect we (in this case meaning non-Americans, well me and those in the axis of evil anyway), are only interested in this election in the expectation that a similar shambles will ensue as happened last time.

 

To an aside, I once saw a clip of rather excessive force being used on someone critical to John Kerry's reaction to that election, although I have always assumed/hoped it was a spoof. As with the whole weapons of mass destruction thingy, actions speak louder than words. Although are two big bombs worse than lots of little ones?

 

Edwin Starr ate my taser.

 

That's a rhyme.

 

Almost.

 

Just for the record, Dave, I don't believe that the force used was excessive. He was being placed under arrest and if he didn't struggle and resist arrest he wouldn't have been tasered. Just my humble opinion.

 

Restrained for having an opinion and asking awkward questions. You could have a field day with tasers at Hyde Park Corner any Sunday morning. It showed the ugly underbelly of American society, shades of Guantanamo.

 

As for separating state and religion. Am I really supposed to believe that a declared atheist could stand for president and win? Has that ever happened?

[deadsox 894]

Not wanting to join in other people disputes but perhaps this thread will prove G.B. Shaw right about 'countries divided by a common language'.

 

If we are honest I suspect we (in this case meaning non-Americans, well me and those in the axis of evil anyway), are only interested in this election in the expectation that a similar shambles will ensue as happened last time.

 

To an aside, I once saw a clip of rather excessive force being used on someone critical to John Kerry's reaction to that election, although I have always assumed/hoped it was a spoof. As with the whole weapons of mass destruction thingy, actions speak louder than words. Although are two big bombs worse than lots of little ones?

 

Edwin Starr ate my taser.

 

That's a rhyme.

 

Almost.

 

Just for the record, Dave, I don't believe that the force used was excessive. He was being placed under arrest and if he didn't struggle and resist arrest he wouldn't have been tasered. Just my humble opinion.

 

Restrained for having an opinion and asking awkward questions. You could have a field day with tasers at Hyde Park Corner any Sunday morning. It showed the ugly underbelly of American society, shades of Guanatanamo.

 

As for separating state and religion. Am I really supposed to believe that a declared atheist could stand for president and win? Has that ever happened?

 

Godot, if you

, you'll see that the man was not asking a question, he was monopolizing a forum and not permitting Kerry or anyone else to speak. It was determined by the organizers that he was interfering with the free flow of ideas between the speaker and the audience. Without some sort of order you can't have a reasoned and reasonable discussion. When he was told to leave (or at least shut up) he refused and then struggled with police who were attempting to arrest and remove him. The funny thing is that the taser is supposed to be a more humane way to incapacitate resisting suspects. It's more pleasant that a billy club. I do believe that an athiest could win a presidential election in the US (although you are correct that it has never happened). The keys to winning are stands on the issues not religious belief. You and many others greatly overestimate the role of religion in the US.

[Windsor 2,235]

OK W, what you said is that the Republicans were "almost as bad as the Democrat ones". Your only comment about Romney is that he's a Mormon which indicates to me that you think being a Mormon is bad.

 

Being a mormon is bad if you are looking to become US president. Doesn't win you an awful lot of votes does it?

 

If you meant to say that Americans think it's bad, you should have stated that more clearly. I would then have commented on it in that light.

I think someone is suffering from sand in their vagina...

 

I focused on Romney because even though your problems with McCain (age) and Huckabee (Christian) aren't fair either, your comment that Romney is "bad" simply for being a Mormon seemed more egregious.

 

I said Huckabee was in the 'God Squad'. How is that less worse than what I said about Romney?

 

Yes, Joe K bought votes particularly in Illinois but JFK still got a lot of popular support and was a much loved president by most Americans.

After 1963 perhaps. The 1960 election was very close indeed. I daresay that those few bought votes came in very handy in securing key electoral college votes. I fail to se your argument an way. Are you suggesting that if Joseph did partake in a wee bit of electoral fraud, it is OK because the president was regarded 'popular'?

[deadsox 894]

OK W, what you said is that the Republicans were "almost as bad as the Democrat ones". Your only comment about Romney is that he's a Mormon which indicates to me that you think being a Mormon is bad.

 

Being a mormon is bad if you are looking to become US president. Doesn't win you an awful lot of votes does it?

 

If you meant to say that Americans think it's bad, you should have stated that more clearly. I would then have commented on it in that light.

I think someone is suffering from sand in their vagina...

 

I focused on Romney because even though your problems with McCain (age) and Huckabee (Christian) aren't fair either, your comment that Romney is "bad" simply for being a Mormon seemed more egregious.

 

I said Huckabee was in the 'God Squad'. How is that less worse than what I said about Romney?

 

Yes, Joe K bought votes particularly in Illinois but JFK still got a lot of popular support and was a much loved president by most Americans.

After 1963 perhaps. The 1960 election was very close indeed. I daresay that those few bought votes came in very handy in securing key electoral college votes. I fail to se your argument an way. Are you suggesting that if Joseph did partake in a wee bit of electoral fraud, it is OK because the president was regarded 'popular'?

 

Romney was governor of Massachusetts and his father was also a successful politician. I don't think being a Mormon helps but it is not as much of a problem as you believe. I don't really understand the "sand" comment other than you can't think of anything relevant to say. The "God Squad" slur is so typical of your ilk that I was able to overlook it. I never suggested that Joe K's vote buying was OK, just that the election might have gone to Kennedy anyway and his being Catholic wasn't as important a factor as you allege. You may want to admit that you don't know as much about this as you believe.

[Godot 149]

You and many others greatly overestimate the role of religion in the US.

 

Overestimate? There's a national obsession with religious themes, often naively expressed. You need only look at all the films that are made portraying angels, God and the Devil and people going to heaven or hell or selling their souls.

 

As for Kentucky, they still believe in Noah's Ark. That belief went out with...the Ark.

 

From Wiki: According to a 2001 Gallup poll, about 45% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." Another 37% believe that "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process." Only 14% believe that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, with God playing no part in the process."

 

America was built on 17th century English Puritanism. It shows in prudish attitudes to topless bathing, a worship of work and a sense of humour which relies mainly on Jewish humour.

 

I can't understand why people still want to go there.

[BrunoBrimley 86]

My choices of I don't give a rat's ass or a flying fig are not listed; therefore, I shall shirk my civic responsibility which will only net me a jury duty summons anyway and I will not vote.

 

My real candidate of choice was Bill Richardson but even though he has more experience than the others- congress, governor, worked in Clinton's cabinet, and the list goes on and on.....he never gained the recognition. He also had the minority thing going for him since he was born of a Mexican mother. However he was not as disgraceful as Hillary "I am poor downtrodden woman watch me weep" Clinton or Barack Obama who while not stating the obvious (that he is black) does nothing to quiet the voices of those who keep carping how the country needs a person of color in charge. No, the country needs a decent leader.

As for Edwards his name is too similar to that ^CrossingOver fellow John Edward and I really don't want a president communicating with the other side---it was bad enough when Nancy Davis Reagan had astrologists doing the charts for Ronnie in order to determine if it was a safe or good day for him.

 

On the Republican side, Mike Huckabee is my choice and it would mean the return of a Man From Hope to the White House. Yes, that's right, Mike Huckabee was born in Hope Arkansas the same as everybody's darling Bill The Bozo Boy Clinton.

 

Romney is just too spookey looking.

 

McCain needs help standing up and holding the microphone,

 

 

Guiliani is an idiot- although idiots have been known to win.

[BrunoBrimley 86]

America... a sense of humour which relies mainly on Jewish humour.

You'd do well to have even a pinkynail's worth of humor that was one trillionth the equal of Jewish humor.

[deadsox 894]

You and many others greatly overestimate the role of religion in the US.

 

Overestimate? There's a national obsession with religious themes, often naively expressed. You need only look at all the films that are made portraying angels, God and the Devil and people going to heaven or hell or selling their souls.

 

As for Kentucky, they still believe in Noah's Ark. That belief went out with...the Ark.

 

From Wiki: According to a 2001 Gallup poll, about 45% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." Another 37% believe that "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process." Only 14% believe that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, with God playing no part in the process."

 

America was built on 17th century English Puritanism. It shows in prudish attitudes to topless bathing, a worship of work and a sense of humour which relies mainly on Jewish humour.

 

I can't understand why people still want to go there.

 

Godot, that's a crock of bull. The poll (if you are indeed quoting one) is very wrong and you don't know anything about Americans.

[BrunoBrimley 86]

In other news the Packers just walloped the Seahawks and moved forward in their quest for the Super Bowl win.

[Godot 149]

You and many others greatly overestimate the role of religion in the US.

 

Overestimate? There's a national obsession with religious themes, often naively expressed. You need only look at all the films that are made portraying angels, God and the Devil and people going to heaven or hell or selling their souls.

 

As for Kentucky, they still believe in Noah's Ark. That belief went out with...the Ark.

 

From Wiki: According to a 2001 Gallup poll, about 45% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." Another 37% believe that "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process." Only 14% believe that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, with God playing no part in the process."

 

America was built on 17th century English Puritanism. It shows in prudish attitudes to topless bathing, a worship of work and a sense of humour which relies mainly on Jewish humour.

 

I can't understand why people still want to go there.

 

Godot, that's a crock of bull. The poll (if you are indeed quoting one) is very wrong and you don't know anything about Americans.

 

Religion not an issue?

 

That poll.

[Madame Defarge 21]

According to an exit poll of New Hampshire voters concerning which issues were most important in the election , social issues and gay rights(which Karl Rove and Co. exploited so successfully in 2004) scored only a scant 4% compared with 30% for the economy(up from 17% in a poll from December) and 22% percent for health care and only 3% for national security and terrorism concerns.

 

 

Religion is one of those things that people argue about when their bellies and gas tanks are full. I bet the discussions held by all those monks and theologians regarding how many angels can dance on the head of a pin were punctuated by many more belches and other gaseous explosions than hallelujahs. (no offense johntudor)

 

For reasons I'm sure I could explain if I had paid attention during economics classes instead of napping and drawing little pictures in the margins of my notebook, the economy is going downhill. If it continues to slide, by the time November comes 'round, voters won't care if their candidate believes if he is descended from apes, or even married to one, as long as he can convince them he can make the dollar look good again.

[Banshees Scream 110]

Alright.. instead of progressing this conversation any further I'm just going to tell Godot 'that he has the freedom' to believe whatever he wants. I'll say it again - people in America 'generally' don't vote based upon a candidates religion. I don't give a sh*t what internet statistics say - I don't care if Huckabee denies evolution ... ex ex ex. Americans are telling you the truth 'and being British' you are choosing to ignore us. So that's your choice. Godot is entitled to his own opinion.

 

Now the economy is in a serious deficit for a majority of reasons and the outlook for 2008 is not looking very optimistic. It's going to be pretty much the top political issue for 2008 and if the people are voting based upon anything at this point it's the essential figure who will attempt to revive the Economy. At this point Hillary Clinton leads in that category.

[deadsox 894]

You and many others greatly overestimate the role of religion in the US.

 

Overestimate? There's a national obsession with religious themes, often naively expressed. You need only look at all the films that are made portraying angels, God and the Devil and people going to heaven or hell or selling their souls.

 

As for Kentucky, they still believe in Noah's Ark. That belief went out with...the Ark.

 

From Wiki: According to a 2001 Gallup poll, about 45% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." Another 37% believe that "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process." Only 14% believe that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, with God playing no part in the process."

 

America was built on 17th century English Puritanism. It shows in prudish attitudes to topless bathing, a worship of work and a sense of humour which relies mainly on Jewish humour.

 

I can't understand why people still want to go there.

 

Godot, that's a crock of bull. The poll (if you are indeed quoting one) is very wrong and you don't know anything about Americans.

 

Religion not an issue?

 

That poll.

 

Godot- Thanks for providing the poll, it is eye opening and surprising to me. I still believe, however, based on my daily interaction with Americans that not that many people deny evolutionary principles. I will also take issue with another contention of yours that America was built on 17th century Puritanism. As a student of history (particularly New England history) I can tell you that Puritanism's influence on America in general declined rapidly after the 1700's and is not a significant factor today. Although I love Jewish humor (take my wife-please) our humor traditions are much deeper and richer than any one group's contributions. Come visit sometime, you may be surprised at our sophistication.

[Godot 149]

Well deadsox I have been many times and I'm still waiting to be surprised. The attempts at sophistication I have witnessed, such as New York restaurants calling steaks "filet mignon," are feeble. Puritanism never disappeared. There is an unbroken chain from Warren Buffet back through Andrew Carnegie (yes I know he was born in Scotland) and Horatio Alger, to Benjamin Franklin and the founding fathers. The American work ethic is the protestant work ethic is the Puritan ethic - all the same.

 

You might have guessed by now that I have no desire to live in the 51st state.