Who Do You Think Will Win The Democrat And Republican Nominations?

[deadsox 891]

OK, Godot, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not believe that the American work ethic is necessarily Protestant nor Puritan, just the result of many poor people coming here who realized that they could move ahead through hard work in a country that did not limit them and allowed anyone to benefit from their own labor. You can denigrate us and hold us in contempt but with all our faults I'm very proud of the US. You don't have to live in a 51st state or any state. Stay where you are. (Where is that by the way?)

[Phantom 2,469]

Anyway there is definitely a separation between church and state 'I'm sorry Phantom - Americans don't generally base their votes upon religion' they base them on mainly 'what has this individual done?' 'and what will they do for this country?' and recently somebody approached me with the question 'put Bill on the couch for a minute' - 'What has Hillary seriously done?

 

There is no seperation between church and state in the US, that is why false patriotism is forced down your throat, having lived here for 4 years one of the most prime issues that is constantly brought up during election time is what religion is the candidate.

 

Hilary's main issue is pushing for a health care system, whether it will work is another matter.

Many people will vote for her is because she's a woman.

A reasonable American or one who would look further than their nose would vote based on the issues, many people in the South vote on whether or not the candidate is a "good Christian".

 

Even Bush himself believes that he was chosen by "God". If there is a seperation between church and state then my statement is purely this, leave religion at home and talk on what you're prepared to do for the economy, health system etc etc.

 

There was a bit of an outburst when Keith Ellison was elected in the house of representatives, purely because he's a Halibut

[Banshees Scream 107]

Well you can be a southerner - a Halibut - or even a 'good Christian' but if you vote for a candidate just because 'I like his religion better then him' that's just seriously a very unsophisticated way to vote for an individual. I can tell you a majority of people who come from 'New York' don't think that way.

 

Now Hillary can talk about 'Health Care' but again the question remains 'what has she done? The main reason why Hillary maintains such an edge is because 'of her husband' and people believe the 'Clinton Team' will rejuvenate America.....

 

Bush is a god fearing president who I believe in the end favors 'logic over religion' but of course he has demonstrated his Jesus faith towards accomplishing the goals he has set but 'no' I don't think he is at a Janez Dronovsek level in so many words and I've never heard him say 'I was chosen by god'

 

I don't think a religious president is problematic but I do think the 'Bill Richardson perspective' on religion should really be the goal for the world. 'Freedom to believe in what you want and I will not impose my views' - and that is the solution.

 

But it will never happen.

[deadsox 891]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution. Some people hold religious beliefs and they may allow those beliefs to affect for whom they vote and indeed how they live their lives. That is not the same as "having no separation of church and state". That is what we refer to as religious freedom. People here are free to believe in God or not as to their inclination. Maybe you just don't like the fact that some people believe in God. If that's the case I won't apologize for the fact that we have that freedom.

[Windsor 2,143]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution.

 

When was the last time you looked at the change in your pocket?

 

"In God we Trust".

 

I'm guessing that people of other faiths have to use that money knowing which God it is hinting at.

 

(Clutching at straws, I know).

[Madame Defarge 21]

I'm guessing that people of other faiths have to use that money knowing which God it is hinting at.

 

(Clutching at straws, I know).

 

It's hinting at this one I reckon.

[Anubis the Jackal 76]

But isn't New York a small island nation off the Eastern Coast of The United States of America?

Well you can be a southerner - a Halibut - or even a 'good Christian' but if you vote for a candidate just because 'I like his religion better then him' that's just seriously a very unsophisticated way to vote for an individual. I can tell you a majority of people who come from 'New York' don't think that way.

[Godot 148]

You don't have to live in a 51st state or any state. Stay where you are. (Where is that by the way?)

Godot Towers overlooks the Ken Bates Motel in Billericay. Four of our townsfolk were pilgrims on the Mayflower but none of them can be blamed for America because they all died shortly after getting there.

 

 

I do not believe that the American work ethic is necessarily Protestant nor Puritan, just the result of many poor people coming here who realized that they could move ahead through hard work in a country that did not limit them and allowed anyone to benefit from their own labor.

 

Like the slaves.

[Phantom 2,469]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution. Some people hold religious beliefs and they may allow those beliefs to affect for whom they vote and indeed how they live their lives. That is not the same as "having no separation of church and state". That is what we refer to as religious freedom. People here are free to believe in God or not as to their inclination. Maybe you just don't like the fact that some people believe in God. If that's the case I won't apologize for the fact that we have that freedom.

 

I have no problems with people who hold any religious beliefs, I just feel it should play no part in the presidential debates or even when a news channel does a report on the indivdual candidates.

But you can deny that it happens, but people do focus on that.

 

The constitution doesn't carry the same weight as it used to. It's used these days as a last line of defence in any court case, all you have to do is wave your arms around and whine "but it's in the constitution"

[Windsor 2,143]

I'm guessing that people of other faiths have to use that money knowing which God it is hinting at.

 

(Clutching at straws, I know).

 

It's hinting at this one I reckon.

 

Ok. I'll give you that...

(It might also have been worth pointing out that the British Head of State is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England).

 

On a technicality I'm Scottish. My people sing about a weed and killing the English.

[deadsox 891]

You don't have to live in a 51st state or any state. Stay where you are. (Where is that by the way?)

Godot Towers overlooks the Ken Bates Motel in Billericay. Four of our townsfolk were pilgrims on the Mayflower but none of them can be blamed for America because they all died shortly after getting there.

 

 

I do not believe that the American work ethic is necessarily Protestant nor Puritan, just the result of many poor people coming here who realized that they could move ahead through hard work in a country that did not limit them and allowed anyone to benefit from their own labor.

 

Like the slaves.

 

Slaves did not benefit from their labor. Slavery was indeed a stain on our country but that was done away with in 1864. I fail to see how that negates that fact that poor people from all over the world came here voluntarily and made better lives for themselves.

[deadsox 891]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution. Some people hold religious beliefs and they may allow those beliefs to affect for whom they vote and indeed how they live their lives. That is not the same as "having no separation of church and state". That is what we refer to as religious freedom. People here are free to believe in God or not as to their inclination. Maybe you just don't like the fact that some people believe in God. If that's the case I won't apologize for the fact that we have that freedom.

 

I have no problems with people who hold any religious beliefs, I just feel it should play no part in the presidential debates or even when a news channel does a report on the indivdual candidates.

But you can deny that it happens, but people do focus on that.

 

The constitution doesn't carry the same weight as it used to. It's used these days as a last line of defence in any court case, all you have to do is wave your arms around and whine "but it's in the constitution"

 

The constitution is still the basic document that defines American rights and law. The problem is that often there's a difference of opinion as to exactly what is meant or intended by a particular article or clause. That's where the Supreme Court comes in and everyone here has an opinion as to whether they rule correctly or incorrectly. I agree with you that religion should have no part in our electoral process but I also understand that some voters are not as astute as you and I.

[deadsox 891]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution.

 

When was the last time you looked at the change in your pocket?

 

"In God we Trust".

 

I'm guessing that people of other faiths have to use that money knowing which God it is hinting at.

 

(Clutching at straws, I know).

 

Well W, I do agree that is is a bit of a straw clutch. We can refer to a God without having an official state religion. I suppose that referring to "God" does imply a monotheistic religion. As far as I know that would include the Catholics, all the Protestant sects, the Jews, the various Orthodox churches and the Mormons. If we allow that God is merely a translation for "Allah" that would include our Halibut brothers and sisters. It's a pretty large group but still doesn't constitute a "state religion". I do allow that the Buddhists and Shinto supporters have been left out.

[football_fan 41]

Michigan primary - Jan 15th, 2008

 

Republicans

 

Mitt Romney - 39% 12 delagates

John McCain - 30% 0 delagates

Mike Huckabee - 16% 0 delagates

Ron Paul - 6% 0 delagates

Fred Thompson - 4% 0 delagates

Rudi Giuliani - 3% 0 delagates

 

Democrats

 

Hiliary Clinton - 55% 0 delagates

Uncomitted - 40% 0 delagates (Obama and Edwards withdrew from the Michigan ballot in solidarity with Michigan democrat delagates - their supporters are only allowed to vote uncommitted)

Kucinich - 4% 0 delagates

Dodd - 1% 0 delagates

 

(Michigan primary does not count in the Democrat Presidential nomination)

[Godot 148]

You don't have to live in a 51st state or any state. Stay where you are. (Where is that by the way?)

Godot Towers overlooks the Ken Bates Motel in Billericay. Four of our townsfolk were pilgrims on the Mayflower but none of them can be blamed for America because they all died shortly after getting there.

 

 

I do not believe that the American work ethic is necessarily Protestant nor Puritan, just the result of many poor people coming here who realized that they could move ahead through hard work in a country that did not limit them and allowed anyone to benefit from their own labor.

 

Like the slaves.

 

Slaves did not benefit from their labor. Slavery was indeed a stain on our country but that was done away with in 1864. I fail to see how that negates that fact that poor people from all over the world came here voluntarily and made better lives for themselves.

Yes, I was meaning to be ironic about slaves. Irony, I know, doesn't play well over there. I'm not arguing with the melting pot background, I know that. What I am saying is that the influence of puritanism in American society goes far beyond a few New England settlers. Free Masonry was significant too and explains the one God idea. Every dollar bill in your pocket is chock full of Masonic symbols.

 

The pyramid symbol of the great seal with the all-seeing eye was put there by Henry Wallace, a former vice president and prominent freemason who, according to this article "believed that America was chosen by God to lead the free world."

 

The Washington memorial, the obelisk, is of course, one giant masonic symbol put there to remind everyone that God is not only the Great Architect of the universe but also the Great Architect of American society as far as the founding fathers were concerned. This God-fearing culture is pervasive in US society and cannot be ignored by anyone with designs on the White House.

[CarolAnn 924]

***snip***

This God-fearing culture is pervasive in US society and cannot be ignored by anyone with designs on the White House.

 

When a country is powerful it is natural for those within it who have power to believe they are divinely inspired or blessed. The divine right of kings, may God bless our troops in battle, conquest by the grace of God, God will smile on our people, empires for the sake of converting the natives...none of those are exclusive to America. Every empire, every world ruler, every people of a country that is powerful has believed that God has played a part in their success.

 

Many schisms within countries are also traceable to God - again, not unique to America.

 

If anything, it could be argued that America is merely carrying on an old tradition. We have the power now, so we have the grace of God, I guess.

 

Being an atheist I personally think we should build hospitals and feed the poor as opposed to churches, but there you go...and I live in the south without having a cross burned on my lawn.

[Godot 148]

***snip***

This God-fearing culture is pervasive in US society and cannot be ignored by anyone with designs on the White House.

 

Every empire, every world ruler, every people of a country that is powerful has believed that God has played a part in their success.

 

 

This might sound a bit picky Carol Ann but I'm not sure that Genghis Khan believed in a supreme being, more an elemental entity - the blue heaven - in line with shamanist beliefs. Given the choice I would have voted for Genghis over George W any day.

[CarolAnn 924]

***snip***

This God-fearing culture is pervasive in US society and cannot be ignored by anyone with designs on the White House.

 

Every empire, every world ruler, every people of a country that is powerful has believed that God has played a part in their success.

 

 

This might sound a bit picky Carol Ann but I'm not sure that Genghis Khan believed in a supreme being, more an elemental entity - the blue heaven - in line with shamanist beliefs. Given the choice I would have voted for Genghis over George W any day.

 

It is a bit picky but I think you still get my point. God, Allah, Odin, Isis, Ra, the rainbow, the big blue wet thing, whatever....

[Godot 148]

.... there's Stalin and Mao, but apart from that....

[Phantom 2,469]

There is no state religion in the US, and that is guaranteed by the constitution. Some people hold religious beliefs and they may allow those beliefs to affect for whom they vote and indeed how they live their lives. That is not the same as "having no separation of church and state". That is what we refer to as religious freedom. People here are free to believe in God or not as to their inclination. Maybe you just don't like the fact that some people believe in God. If that's the case I won't apologize for the fact that we have that freedom.

 

I have no problems with people who hold any religious beliefs, I just feel it should play no part in the presidential debates or even when a news channel does a report on the indivdual candidates.

But you can deny that it happens, but people do focus on that.

 

The constitution doesn't carry the same weight as it used to. It's used these days as a last line of defence in any court case, all you have to do is wave your arms around and whine "but it's in the constitution"

 

The constitution is still the basic document that defines American rights and law. The problem is that often there's a difference of opinion as to exactly what is meant or intended by a particular article or clause. That's where the Supreme Court comes in and everyone here has an opinion as to whether they rule correctly or incorrectly. I agree with you that religion should have no part in our electoral process but I also understand that some voters are not as astute as you and I.

 

 

I agree that that is what it was intended to be, however over recent years it's been so ripped to shreds (metaphorically speaking) and had so many amendments made to it that anyone could find a loophole to justify what they want at the time.

 

The trouble with the Supreme Court is that the majority of those appointed have been done so by Republican presidents, it's a bit like the law lords in England. Once you reach a suitable level of senility,then you can be appointed to the High Court.

 

This election seems to be more on the issues than it was last time round. There was the big debate as to whether Bush (Born Again Christian) and Kerry (Catholic) should win. The whole mudslinging contest was fought out between two issues

1. The Presidential hopeful's military records

2. Their religion

 

I have to say, I'll be glad when November finally comes round and it's all over.

I'd much rather hear a delegate stand up and say what they plan to do for the next 4 years, rather than what their opponents won't do.

[CarolAnn 924]

I put up for nomination for President of the United States.....

Scruffy Doodle.

 

Having overcome a horrible and underpriveleged childhood in a puppy mill, Scruffy overcame huge physical problems (mange, sepsis, heartworms) to become the strong representative of his breed he is today. Despite being neutered he is a go getter, letting no cat invasion pass though the kitchen and employing all his powers of persuasion to get his cabinet (MacGregor, Secretary of State; Shawna, Secretary of Defense; Redford, Secretary of Health and Human Services; Kaydee, Attorney General) to join him on his quest to rid the world of the feline scourge.

 

Scruffy has extensive experience in foreign policy, having established constructive relations with representatives of the Dachsund Collective on the other side of the fence as well as with the Mutt Melange down the block and the Dalmatian/Corgi Landscape across the street. Economic agreements are negotiated during walkies and signed over a mutual bowl of kibble. Arms agreements depend on who wins at tuggies.

 

Scruffy pledges to work with Congress but also maintains a stand that he will veto any feline-friendly legislation.

[Anubis the Jackal 76]

Has he claimed that the Siamese down the road posseses weapons of mass destruction yet?

 

I put up for nomination for President of the United States.....

Scruffy Doodle.

[Monoclinic 39]

Has he claimed that the Siamese down the road posseses weapons of mass destruction yet?

 

I put up for nomination for President of the United States.....

Scruffy Doodle.

 

It's the Persian living next door to the overthrown squat who (apparently) insists on enriching his Friskies with Iams I'd be most worried about!

[Guest paddythecat]

human fools there is no separation between church or state. i am the church. i am the state. worship me now or feel my wrath.

[deadsox 891]

.... there's Stalin and Mao, but apart from that....

 

Two good atheists who murdered more people that any other pair in history.