Hooroo, Mate.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

For those of you who have been following the rivalry between Gillard and the man she deposed, Kevin Rudd, I think we can now safely predict the Gillard Government will die in a horrendous bloodbath at the election in less than 100 days. When MPs are already packing their offices in the knowledge they will lose their seats, you know things are bad:

 

http://www.abc.net.a...e-jihad/4745006

 

http://www.abc.net.a...lection/4736524

 

http://www.abc.net.a...-caucus/4742626

 

Predicting the death of the Australian Labour party Davey???

 

Personally I became disenfranchised with them when KRudd was deposed as PM, the entire thing has remained stagnate since then (the only + is the ongoing royal commission into child sexual abuse in state and religious institutions, which should have happened decades ago anyway) However the recent event of ordering the navy to call off the search for an asylum seeker vessel that sank a few days ago off Christmas island, Then not to recover the bodies they did find, just made me angry - not that I'm an angry person mind. This just seems to be a total disregard for human dignity in this situation.

 

anyway that's my soapbox moment...back to posting funny "share a coke with..." names

 

I didn't really mind the fact Rudd was deposed. To my cynical mind, that is just politics, with everyone stabbing everyone else to get to the top. It was the same when Keating knifed Hawke and people didn't make such a big fuss of it back then. They have painted themselves into a massive corner though - they can't backflip and go back to Rudd and they would be seen as flip-flopping if they picked someone else like Combet or Shorten (they probably want to save those guys as long-term investments for future PM. Giving them the job now or immediately after the defeat will be offering them a poisoned chalice). It is far too late in the day now to do anything. Maybe they will grab Rudd in the hope he will bring across just enough votes to save a few more seats.

 

I totally agree about the asylum seeker thing though - I am absolutely disgusted by that. Also, the growing US military presence in the NT revolts me as well. Of course, none of this will change under Abbott and will, in fact, probably be a hell of a lot worse. Abbott still seems to be Howard's puppet to me so it will be a step back to the old days.

 

The only really positive change from Julia is the Gonski legislation, if she can push them through. I actually think she was a good Education Minister and should have stayed in that role, pushing much-needed reforms through there.

 

No Labor won't die, just the Gillard Government - let's face it, there is no new party to replace it (can't see bloody Clive Palmer or Mad Hatter Katter filling the void and they are both fairly-right leaning anyway) but it will take a long time to rebuild. It is the same here in QLD after Bligh was annhilated by Newman. Even though Newman is as arrogant as hell, it will take years for the ALP here to rebuild.

 

Anyway, agreed that is another politics for one day. I will have to have a look at the Coke bottle thread, too.

[themaninblack 2,112]

I read an article about Australian politics a few months ago. It's a lot more ruthless than in Britain. They've had more changes in party leadership than Chelsea have done with managers. General elections are fairly regular too (3 years). Certainly keeps the politicians on their toes. Doesn't seem to have done the country too much harm though. Lesson for Britain?

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

I read an article about Australian politics a few months ago. It's a lot more ruthless than in Britain. They've had more changes in party leadership than Chelsea have done with managers. General elections are fairly regular too (3 years). Certainly keeps the politicians on their toes. Doesn't seem to have done the country too much harm though. Lesson for Britain?

 

Here are a couple of random observations: yes elections are every three years but there is no set date. It is up to the PM to call when they will be within a given timeframe. As you note, the good thing is it keeps them on their toes but it means they are often only looking to the next election and focus heavily on polling, not on the long-term good. They don't come up with many policies for a long-term vision for the country or invest in major infrastructure projects that will carry on beyond their time in office.

 

Power is also still relatively decentralised with the States having a lot of say. Again, this is good and bad as it means not everything is centralised in Canberra but it can lead to problems too. For instance, we still haven't decided on a standard rail gauge for the country after over a century of debate. Some States are narrow gauge, some are wide gauge and some are standard gauge. With education, different States have their own curriculums. This is a pain for kids who have to move from one State to another and find their new class is learning completely different things with a different examination system (or no external exams at all in the case of Queensland.) However, the good point is it means that one party can't set the ideological agenda for a whole generation of kids across the country (see, for instance, "white armband" versus "black armband" views of history. Do we really want that kind of ideological bollocks in the classroom?)

 

Another observation here is that there are only two players in the print media industry: Murdoch and Fairfax. It isn't really like the UK where Labour voters read the Guardian, Tories read the Times, Greens read the Independent and BNP types read the Daily Mail. Murdoch's right-wing tabloids just about dominate, although this is become less of a concern as print media declines in popularity. Also, we have very trashy current affairs shows on the commercial television channels and "shock jocks" on the radios. Unlike the BBC, the ABC isn't funded by a licence fee, just by a portion of tax dollars allocated by the government, so it is a lot less powerful and has never had anywhere near as much dominance over electronic media. Both parties frequently accuse the ABC of being biased towards the other side.

 

At the end of the day, I think most Australians vote through their pockets rather than along ideological lines or caring about big picture issues. For instance, John Howard dragged Australia into his mate George W. Bush's wars, lied about refugees falling overboard on a boat and numerous other things during his time in office but people only started to really care when he brought in controversial "Work Choices" legislation that affected their job security and salaries. At that point, he was promptly thrown out. It was the same in the State of Queensland: Anna Bligh was a well-liked leader and led an effective recovery operation after major flooding but suffered a landslide loss after plans to privatise some industries led to job fears.

 

In overall terms though, Australia is very much a vassal state of the USA. Whoever is in, be they Left or Right, they will bow to their masters in Washington. (See comments about US military bases in the Northern Territory in my last post.) The major parties have converged a lot in terms of their ideology over the last two decades anyway. We are in the strange and worrying position now of being completely servile to the US but having to try to remain on good terms with China as they are the ones buying our coal and keeping our country out of the Global Financial Crisis. The US is keen to build up its military in our area to counter the rise of China, putting us on the firing line, just as, in the 1940s, US bases at Darwin and Townsville led to the Japanese bombing those cities.

 

In terms of Left and Right converging, for instance it was a Labor Prime Minister, Paul Keating, who copied Thatcher's Tory economic policies whole-heartedly over here, labeling them "economic rationalism." He bungled the economy in the wake of the 1987 stock market crash and plunged the country into a severe recession as a result. Later on, just as in the UK, the larger cities have boomed but regional Australia has never recovered from its loss of jobs and industries.

 

One final comment is that a lot of commentators have noted that a trend over recent years has been for voters and the media to start caring more about personalities than policies. As I said above, the Right and Left have converged a lot, so the media draws more on the leadership battles between Rudd and Gillard and the personality of Abbott and his would-be "macho man" figure (he models himself on Putin a bit by being seen taking part in surf competitions, cycling, etc) to distinguish them. It is also the age of the sound bite and the spin doctor, so policy is less of a focus than slogans said and gaffes that are made.

 

Okay, hope that gives some insight. Body Snatcher 44 might have some different perspectives.

 

/end rant.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Here are a couple of random observations:

 

And some random comments on those observations:

 

[Aussie politicians] don't come up with many policies for a long-term vision for the country or invest in major infrastructure projects that will carry on beyond their time in office.

 

That's a problem with politicians in all democracies: they won't look beyond the end of the week or the next election, whichever is first. Politicians in dictatorships don't have that problem, so they won't look beyond the end of the week.

 

In overall terms though, Australia is very much a vassal state of the USA. Whoever is in, be they Left or Right, they will bow to their masters in Washington.

 

Same here. The nasty extra is that we pay for US protection against unknown enemies. That's protection as in protection racket, mind.

 

regards,

Hein

[themaninblack 2,112]

From what you are saying Davey, Australia has much in common with Britain in terms of its allegiance to the US of A. The thought flashed through my mind that in a couple of years time, the British General Election will be such a muddle we'll end up with a National Government, like we had in the 1930s...

[Body Snatcher 44 107]

Davey you have outdone yourself with the social commentary, explained it well - I would like to echo your points and I have the odd one of my own.

 

I view part of my job is to remain politically neutral. I strive to look at things more in societal terms than in political ones. Australia is a very indecisive place; a lot of the time not knowing what decision to make (which is why we probably won't become a republic or legalize same sex marriage), before packing the whole thing in and heading down the pub for the afternoon.

As I'm sure most of our international mates on this site can relate to this in some way. Every little thing is made into a big deal..,case and point; recently our PM appeared on a Perth radio show, hosted by a KNOWN shock jock. He asked an inappropriate question (big surprise there) and boom; instant soundbites and a victimized PM can garner some sympathy.

This is a dangerous path to go down for two reasons 1, it takes attention away from the REAL issues that need addressing and 2, it impacts heavily upon the attitudes of children, Last week whilst on yard duty a group of year 8 girls came over to me and complained that the boys on the oval and kicked a ball into them, hitting one on the elbow, there wasn't even a scratch. I asked them what they were doing over there and they replied they were just sitting and talking. When I suggested that it was probably a bad idea to sit so near, that the boys were completely within their rights to play their game on the oval and that they have an entire yard with infinity other places to sit. The attitude of the girls changed from playing victim to being aggressor as it wasn't the response they were looking for. They stormed off in a huff.

i thought WOW, if that isn't a reflection of modern Australian society; where everyone wants to be precious and demand justice for the most trivial thing at the expense of common sense.

This is by no-means the only example of this kind of thing happening - and I do appreciate the karma of the bully getting bullied and then crying foul because of it (a la Alan Jones).

 

As far as notions of "black and white armbands of history" is concerned I encourage students to observe and consider every aspect of an issue in order to reach an informed and rational conclusion about it. To accept other peoples ideas (no matter how stupid) in a calm, respectful and civilized manner and debate the issue based upon firm evidence, not ideology. For the most part this takes a while to instill this in their thought processes. I usually confuse each class with the question "If all your friends jumped off a bridge at the same time, would you?"

answer "Yes"

"Why is the answer Yes?"

I give them a few moments to think about it - they rarely come up with the answer.

"Because my friends are mostly rational people, so there must be a valid reason to jump off the bridge - I don't want to hang around on the bridge to see whats going to happen." or something similar.

 

I have found that when you study and/or teach history certain truths come to the fore; wars and atrocities are inevitable, evil exists and hugs the limelight, good exists but is usually dormant until something drastic happens, often these two entities are blurred and nobody has an idea of whats good and whats evil anyway, as a society becomes more sophisticated people become less self-sufficient and more co-dependent, Ideas and innovations are usually poo-pooed unless money can be made, even the village idiot can be right sometimes, ideology often masks itself as rationality (FOX NEWS) and that people need to harden the F**k up.

One final point in relation to this, I was at a personal development meeting of school teachers and a union rep was telling stories about when the union had to get involved with "incidents" that have happened on school campuses over the years.

- one story was when an English teacher filled in for a PE class and didn't know what to do, after learning that the class were learning javelin, he took the class onto the oval and divided it into two teams, placing a team at each end of the oval they began throwing javelins at the opposition, this was in full view of parents who had arrived early to pick up their children.

everyone in the lecture theater gasped in horror - I burst out laughing, the looks i received from my colleagues were as if I'd been the one to do that...lighten up people nobody died...

[Guest Guest]

I read an article about Australian politics a few months ago. It's a lot more ruthless than in Britain. They've had more changes in party leadership than Chelsea have done with managers. General elections are fairly regular too (3 years). Certainly keeps the politicians on their toes. Doesn't seem to have done the country too much harm though. Lesson for Britain?

 

I wish we had elections every 3 years here in the UK.if we did this useless bunch would have been thrown out by now.God only knows what damage they might do with another 2 years in govt..

[JR976evil 905]

I read an article about Australian politics a few months ago. It's a lot more ruthless than in Britain. They've had more changes in party leadership than Chelsea have done with managers. General elections are fairly regular too (3 years). Certainly keeps the politicians on their toes. Doesn't seem to have done the country too much harm though. Lesson for Britain?

 

I wish we had elections every 3 years here in the UK.if we did this useless bunch would have been thrown out by now.God only knows what damage they might do with another 2 years in govt..

 

Nobody is interested in your opinions

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

An award-winning film maker named Paul Cox has cancer and nneds a liver transplant within six months but his rare blood type is making things difficult: http://www.abc.net.a...6-16T212525.htm

[Death Impends 7,953]

From his Wiki page:

 

On 26 December 2009 he received a liver transplant. A documentary about this experience is being made by David Bradbury.

 

So he got the transplant back in 09. The article you posted is about the documentary, it looks like.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Okay, I might have been suckered in there. The ad on television last night for the show made it sound like he was dying at the moment.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Davey you have outdone yourself with the social commentary, explained it well - I would like to echo your points and I have the odd one of my own.

 

I view part of my job is to remain politically neutral. I strive to look at things more in societal terms than in political ones. Australia is a very indecisive place; a lot of the time not knowing what decision to make (which is why we probably won't become a republic or legalize same sex marriage), before packing the whole thing in and heading down the pub for the afternoon.

As I'm sure most of our international mates on this site can relate to this in some way. Every little thing is made into a big deal..,case and point; recently our PM appeared on a Perth radio show, hosted by a KNOWN shock jock. He asked an inappropriate question (big surprise there) and boom; instant soundbites and a victimized PM can garner some sympathy.

Yes, they blew that out of proportion. I hadn't come across that shock jock before but he was trying too hard to be funny and it fell flat. His biggest problem was that he then kept on going with it but the whole thing was coming after Gillard's "misogyny" speech and the restaurant menu that conveniently surfaced the following day.

 

Last week whilst on yard duty a group of year 8 girls came over to me and complained that the boys on the oval and kicked a ball into them, hitting one on the elbow, there wasn't even a scratch. I asked them what they were doing over there and they replied they were just sitting and talking. When I suggested that it was probably a bad idea to sit so near, that the boys were completely within their rights to play their game on the oval and that they have an entire yard with infinity other places to sit. The attitude of the girls changed from playing victim to being aggressor as it wasn't the response they were looking for. They stormed off in a huff.

Good on you!

i thought WOW, if that isn't a reflection of modern Australian society; where everyone wants to be precious and demand justice for the most trivial thing at the expense of common sense.

This is by no-means the only example of this kind of thing happening - and I do appreciate the karma of the bully getting bullied and then crying foul because of it (a la Alan Jones).

Yes, I think Australian society has changed a lot in the last few decades. At the risk of sounding like an old man, Generation Y represents this over-privileged culture. I know of similar examples but I won't cite them now.

 

As far as notions of "black and white armbands of history" is concerned I encourage students to observe and consider every aspect of an issue in order to reach an informed and rational conclusion about it. To accept other peoples ideas (no matter how stupid) in a calm, respectful and civilized manner and debate the issue based upon firm evidence, not ideology. For the most part this takes a while to instill this in their thought processes. I usually confuse each class with the question "If all your friends jumped off a bridge at the same time, would you?"

answer "Yes"

"Why is the answer Yes?"

I give them a few moments to think about it - they rarely come up with the answer.

"Because my friends are mostly rational people, so there must be a valid reason to jump off the bridge - I don't want to hang around on the bridge to see whats going to happen." or something similar.

 

I have found that when you study and/or teach history certain truths come to the fore; wars and atrocities are inevitable, evil exists and hugs the limelight, good exists but is usually dormant until something drastic happens,

Interesting. I didn't know you were a teacher. When I was talking about one party's ideology dominating the curriculum in Canberra was in control of all schooling, I was thinking about a few specific cases besides the black armband debates: one was when Julie Bishop was education minister and she wanted everyone to follow Harold Bloom's theories. Another is the bloody frightening, nationalistic emphasis that has been placed on Anzac Day since Howard first came to power. Some people feel that the Libs use Anzac Day as a kind of Australian nationalistic origins myth in the same way that the ALP use Eureka and the Shearers' Strikes.

 

On a more personal note, I really enjoyed history at school but I find it disgusts me now to learn about the constant cycle of wars. We should be progressing as a society but we aren't.

 

 

 

often these two entities are blurred and nobody has an idea of whats good and whats evil anyway,

I am more sceptical about moral relativism. My views on the subject are still evolving and maturing though.

 

as a society becomes more sophisticated people become less self-sufficient and more co-dependent, Ideas and innovations are usually poo-pooed unless money can be made, even the village idiot can be right sometimes, ideology often masks itself as rationality (FOX NEWS) and that people need to harden the F**k up.

 

Yes Fox News is poison. Thank goodness we still have cross-media ownership laws here which is probably the one good thing about the media landscape in this country. Having said that about the populist media, Universities are just as bad. Commerce/business departments are awash with Harvard-trained hardcore capitalists and the Humanities world at certain unis still have a lot of old Marxist cultural theorists. I think as life progresses, most of us grow to discern the bullshit from the things of value though. I'd very much like to see a few changes to our universities: one thing would be a lot more accountability to give students more rights via an independent body that can handle complaints. (At the moment, the only options are to complain to the head of school and they will almost always side with their lecturer or to the student union, which is useless.) Julia was actually flagging an independent body like this three or four years ago but I haven't heard anything more of it.

 

Secondly, I would like to see uni positions be for fixed terms only, after which a lecturer must leave the job and return to work in the real world for a while. That would stop them becoming so bloody insular and means they would have to check their pet theories against what is happening out there in the actual workforce. Yes, it would mean they would have to leave research projects half way through if they weren't finished and another team would have to take over but it would be worth it to overcome a lot of the problems and politics and corruption I have seen in Australian tertiary education.

 

/end rant 2.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

In overall terms though, Australia is very much a vassal state of the USA. Whoever is in, be they Left or Right, they will bow to their masters in Washington.

 

Same here. The nasty extra is that we pay for US protection against unknown enemies. That's protection as in protection racket, mind.

 

regards,

Hein

 

Depending on your view of John Pilger, you might find this video very interesting:

 

"Is Australia Still the 51st State?"

 

http://www.abc.net.a...&vidLength=Full

 

Also, here is an old article he wrote on the topic back in 2007:

 

http://www.newstates...lia-howard-bush

 

Finally, I just read this reader comment attached to a news article discussing Baz Luhrmann's Great Gatsby:

 

"There is a small green light across the harbour ... calling Jay Gatsby to his (deluding?) dream. This is a story that should resonate with Australians: that green light, for Australia, is America, and the Aussie deluded dream of attaching our culture to theirs. From our sycophantic politics and politicians who dream of the White House green light and political fame (or at least a Presidential Medal of Honour?) to our ersatz imitation American country and western music and the endless barrage of rap, hip hop, dance techno and X-factor synthetic music, Australians are staring across the harbour. Is Baz doing anything different than what many Aussies are doing? Look at the Hollywood movies that captivate the attention here, look at the US (reality?) shows radiating from the Aussie living room TVs...

 

Baz isn't Jay Gatsby. The average Aussie is Jay Gatsby, and Daisy... hollow party-goers looking for the next drink or drug-induced buzz money can buy."

[themaninblack 2,112]

Is it me or does every Bazz Luhrmann film have at least one scene where it rains down with sparkly confetti?

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Back on topic, Yunupingu is having a state funeral: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-18/open-funeral-mr-yunupingu-garma-festival/4762704

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Film-maker Dennis O'Rourke gone at 67: http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s3783496.htm

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

High profile former Australian politician Michael Hodgman died in his nursing home, it has just been announced: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-19/tasmanian-liberal-stalwart-michael-hodgman-dies/4764862

[Guest Guest]

any word on how Gough Whitlams doing?

[Bibliogryphon 9,569]

Davey you have outdone yourself with the social commentary, explained it well - I would like to echo your points and I have the odd one of my own.

 

I view part of my job is to remain politically neutral. I strive to look at things more in societal terms than in political ones. Australia is a very indecisive place; a lot of the time not knowing what decision to make (which is why we probably won't become a republic or legalize same sex marriage), before packing the whole thing in and heading down the pub for the afternoon.

As I'm sure most of our international mates on this site can relate to this in some way. Every little thing is made into a big deal..,case and point; recently our PM appeared on a Perth radio show, hosted by a KNOWN shock jock. He asked an inappropriate question (big surprise there) and boom; instant soundbites and a victimized PM can garner some sympathy.

Yes, they blew that out of proportion. I hadn't come across that shock jock before but he was trying too hard to be funny and it fell flat. His biggest problem was that he then kept on going with it but the whole thing was coming after Gillard's "misogyny" speech and the restaurant menu that conveniently surfaced the following day.

 

Last week whilst on yard duty a group of year 8 girls came over to me and complained that the boys on the oval and kicked a ball into them, hitting one on the elbow, there wasn't even a scratch. I asked them what they were doing over there and they replied they were just sitting and talking. When I suggested that it was probably a bad idea to sit so near, that the boys were completely within their rights to play their game on the oval and that they have an entire yard with infinity other places to sit. The attitude of the girls changed from playing victim to being aggressor as it wasn't the response they were looking for. They stormed off in a huff.

Good on you!

i thought WOW, if that isn't a reflection of modern Australian society; where everyone wants to be precious and demand justice for the most trivial thing at the expense of common sense.

This is by no-means the only example of this kind of thing happening - and I do appreciate the karma of the bully getting bullied and then crying foul because of it (a la Alan Jones).

Yes, I think Australian society has changed a lot in the last few decades. At the risk of sounding like an old man, Generation Y represents this over-privileged culture. I know of similar examples but I won't cite them now.

 

As far as notions of "black and white armbands of history" is concerned I encourage students to observe and consider every aspect of an issue in order to reach an informed and rational conclusion about it. To accept other peoples ideas (no matter how stupid) in a calm, respectful and civilized manner and debate the issue based upon firm evidence, not ideology. For the most part this takes a while to instill this in their thought processes. I usually confuse each class with the question "If all your friends jumped off a bridge at the same time, would you?"

answer "Yes"

"Why is the answer Yes?"

I give them a few moments to think about it - they rarely come up with the answer.

"Because my friends are mostly rational people, so there must be a valid reason to jump off the bridge - I don't want to hang around on the bridge to see whats going to happen." or something similar.

 

I have found that when you study and/or teach history certain truths come to the fore; wars and atrocities are inevitable, evil exists and hugs the limelight, good exists but is usually dormant until something drastic happens,

Interesting. I didn't know you were a teacher. When I was talking about one party's ideology dominating the curriculum in Canberra was in control of all schooling, I was thinking about a few specific cases besides the black armband debates: one was when Julie Bishop was education minister and she wanted everyone to follow Harold Bloom's theories. Another is the bloody frightening, nationalistic emphasis that has been placed on Anzac Day since Howard first came to power. Some people feel that the Libs use Anzac Day as a kind of Australian nationalistic origins myth in the same way that the ALP use Eureka and the Shearers' Strikes.

 

On a more personal note, I really enjoyed history at school but I find it disgusts me now to learn about the constant cycle of wars. We should be progressing as a society but we aren't.

 

 

 

often these two entities are blurred and nobody has an idea of whats good and whats evil anyway,

I am more sceptical about moral relativism. My views on the subject are still evolving and maturing though.

 

as a society becomes more sophisticated people become less self-sufficient and more co-dependent, Ideas and innovations are usually poo-pooed unless money can be made, even the village idiot can be right sometimes, ideology often masks itself as rationality (FOX NEWS) and that people need to harden the F**k up.

 

Yes Fox News is poison. Thank goodness we still have cross-media ownership laws here which is probably the one good thing about the media landscape in this country. Having said that about the populist media, Universities are just as bad. Commerce/business departments are awash with Harvard-trained hardcore capitalists and the Humanities world at certain unis still have a lot of old Marxist cultural theorists. I think as life progresses, most of us grow to discern the bullshit from the things of value though. I'd very much like to see a few changes to our universities: one thing would be a lot more accountability to give students more rights via an independent body that can handle complaints. (At the moment, the only options are to complain to the head of school and they will almost always side with their lecturer or to the student union, which is useless.) Julia was actually flagging an independent body like this three or four years ago but I haven't heard anything more of it.

 

Secondly, I would like to see uni positions be for fixed terms only, after which a lecturer must leave the job and return to work in the real world for a while. That would stop them becoming so bloody insular and means they would have to check their pet theories against what is happening out there in the actual workforce. Yes, it would mean they would have to leave research projects half way through if they weren't finished and another team would have to take over but it would be worth it to overcome a lot of the problems and politics and corruption I have seen in Australian tertiary education.

 

/end rant 2.

 

This is very interesting. Particularly the focus on the USA as the biggest influence. Where does this leave the Republican tendancy in Australia after the whole referendum is being part of the commonwealth now staus quo.

 

Would the introduction of a presidential figure make things better or worse for the electorate?

[Body Snatcher 44 107]

Davey you have outdone yourself with the social commentary, explained it well - I would like to echo your points and I have the odd one of my own.

 

I view part of my job is to remain politically neutral. I strive to look at things more in societal terms than in political ones. Australia is a very indecisive place; a lot of the time not knowing what decision to make (which is why we probably won't become a republic or legalize same sex marriage), before packing the whole thing in and heading down the pub for the afternoon.

As I'm sure most of our international mates on this site can relate to this in some way. Every little thing is made into a big deal..,case and point; recently our PM appeared on a Perth radio show, hosted by a KNOWN shock jock. He asked an inappropriate question (big surprise there) and boom; instant soundbites and a victimized PM can garner some sympathy.

Yes, they blew that out of proportion. I hadn't come across that shock jock before but he was trying too hard to be funny and it fell flat. His biggest problem was that he then kept on going with it but the whole thing was coming after Gillard's "misogyny" speech and the restaurant menu that conveniently surfaced the following day.

 

Last week whilst on yard duty a group of year 8 girls came over to me and complained that the boys on the oval and kicked a ball into them, hitting one on the elbow, there wasn't even a scratch. I asked them what they were doing over there and they replied they were just sitting and talking. When I suggested that it was probably a bad idea to sit so near, that the boys were completely within their rights to play their game on the oval and that they have an entire yard with infinity other places to sit. The attitude of the girls changed from playing victim to being aggressor as it wasn't the response they were looking for. They stormed off in a huff.

Good on you!

i thought WOW, if that isn't a reflection of modern Australian society; where everyone wants to be precious and demand justice for the most trivial thing at the expense of common sense.

This is by no-means the only example of this kind of thing happening - and I do appreciate the karma of the bully getting bullied and then crying foul because of it (a la Alan Jones).

Yes, I think Australian society has changed a lot in the last few decades. At the risk of sounding like an old man, Generation Y represents this over-privileged culture. I know of similar examples but I won't cite them now.

 

As far as notions of "black and white armbands of history" is concerned I encourage students to observe and consider every aspect of an issue in order to reach an informed and rational conclusion about it. To accept other peoples ideas (no matter how stupid) in a calm, respectful and civilized manner and debate the issue based upon firm evidence, not ideology. For the most part this takes a while to instill this in their thought processes. I usually confuse each class with the question "If all your friends jumped off a bridge at the same time, would you?"

answer "Yes"

"Why is the answer Yes?"

I give them a few moments to think about it - they rarely come up with the answer.

"Because my friends are mostly rational people, so there must be a valid reason to jump off the bridge - I don't want to hang around on the bridge to see whats going to happen." or something similar.

 

I have found that when you study and/or teach history certain truths come to the fore; wars and atrocities are inevitable, evil exists and hugs the limelight, good exists but is usually dormant until something drastic happens,

Interesting. I didn't know you were a teacher. When I was talking about one party's ideology dominating the curriculum in Canberra was in control of all schooling, I was thinking about a few specific cases besides the black armband debates: one was when Julie Bishop was education minister and she wanted everyone to follow Harold Bloom's theories. Another is the bloody frightening, nationalistic emphasis that has been placed on Anzac Day since Howard first came to power. Some people feel that the Libs use Anzac Day as a kind of Australian nationalistic origins myth in the same way that the ALP use Eureka and the Shearers' Strikes.

 

On a more personal note, I really enjoyed history at school but I find it disgusts me now to learn about the constant cycle of wars. We should be progressing as a society but we aren't.

 

 

 

often these two entities are blurred and nobody has an idea of whats good and whats evil anyway,

I am more sceptical about moral relativism. My views on the subject are still evolving and maturing though.

 

as a society becomes more sophisticated people become less self-sufficient and more co-dependent, Ideas and innovations are usually poo-pooed unless money can be made, even the village idiot can be right sometimes, ideology often masks itself as rationality (FOX NEWS) and that people need to harden the F**k up.

 

Yes Fox News is poison. Thank goodness we still have cross-media ownership laws here which is probably the one good thing about the media landscape in this country. Having said that about the populist media, Universities are just as bad. Commerce/business departments are awash with Harvard-trained hardcore capitalists and the Humanities world at certain unis still have a lot of old Marxist cultural theorists. I think as life progresses, most of us grow to discern the bullshit from the things of value though. I'd very much like to see a few changes to our universities: one thing would be a lot more accountability to give students more rights via an independent body that can handle complaints. (At the moment, the only options are to complain to the head of school and they will almost always side with their lecturer or to the student union, which is useless.) Julia was actually flagging an independent body like this three or four years ago but I haven't heard anything more of it.

 

Secondly, I would like to see uni positions be for fixed terms only, after which a lecturer must leave the job and return to work in the real world for a while. That would stop them becoming so bloody insular and means they would have to check their pet theories against what is happening out there in the actual workforce. Yes, it would mean they would have to leave research projects half way through if they weren't finished and another team would have to take over but it would be worth it to overcome a lot of the problems and politics and corruption I have seen in Australian tertiary education.

 

/end rant 2.

 

This is very interesting. Particularly the focus on the USA as the biggest influence. Where does this leave the Republican tendancy in Australia after the whole referendum is being part of the commonwealth now staus quo.

 

Would the introduction of a presidential figure make things better or worse for the electorate?

 

I'm against the republican idea, Its one of the few things I'm actually I'm actually conservative about - I simply don't trust the pollies enough to change anything, I'd image it would be like letting prisoners change the legal system.

P.S. Jeffrey Smart has died..any chance of a uk obit?

[themaninblack 2,112]

Davey you have outdone yourself with the social commentary, explained it well - I would like to echo your points and I have the odd one of my own.

 

I view part of my job is to remain politically neutral. I strive to look at things more in societal terms than in political ones. Australia is a very indecisive place; a lot of the time not knowing what decision to make (which is why we probably won't become a republic or legalize same sex marriage), before packing the whole thing in and heading down the pub for the afternoon.

As I'm sure most of our international mates on this site can relate to this in some way. Every little thing is made into a big deal..,case and point; recently our PM appeared on a Perth radio show, hosted by a KNOWN shock jock. He asked an inappropriate question (big surprise there) and boom; instant soundbites and a victimized PM can garner some sympathy.

Yes, they blew that out of proportion. I hadn't come across that shock jock before but he was trying too hard to be funny and it fell flat. His biggest problem was that he then kept on going with it but the whole thing was coming after Gillard's "misogyny" speech and the restaurant menu that conveniently surfaced the following day.

 

Last week whilst on yard duty a group of year 8 girls came over to me and complained that the boys on the oval and kicked a ball into them, hitting one on the elbow, there wasn't even a scratch. I asked them what they were doing over there and they replied they were just sitting and talking. When I suggested that it was probably a bad idea to sit so near, that the boys were completely within their rights to play their game on the oval and that they have an entire yard with infinity other places to sit. The attitude of the girls changed from playing victim to being aggressor as it wasn't the response they were looking for. They stormed off in a huff.

Good on you!

i thought WOW, if that isn't a reflection of modern Australian society; where everyone wants to be precious and demand justice for the most trivial thing at the expense of common sense.

This is by no-means the only example of this kind of thing happening - and I do appreciate the karma of the bully getting bullied and then crying foul because of it (a la Alan Jones).

Yes, I think Australian society has changed a lot in the last few decades. At the risk of sounding like an old man, Generation Y represents this over-privileged culture. I know of similar examples but I won't cite them now.

 

As far as notions of "black and white armbands of history" is concerned I encourage students to observe and consider every aspect of an issue in order to reach an informed and rational conclusion about it. To accept other peoples ideas (no matter how stupid) in a calm, respectful and civilized manner and debate the issue based upon firm evidence, not ideology. For the most part this takes a while to instill this in their thought processes. I usually confuse each class with the question "If all your friends jumped off a bridge at the same time, would you?"

answer "Yes"

"Why is the answer Yes?"

I give them a few moments to think about it - they rarely come up with the answer.

"Because my friends are mostly rational people, so there must be a valid reason to jump off the bridge - I don't want to hang around on the bridge to see whats going to happen." or something similar.

 

I have found that when you study and/or teach history certain truths come to the fore; wars and atrocities are inevitable, evil exists and hugs the limelight, good exists but is usually dormant until something drastic happens,

Interesting. I didn't know you were a teacher. When I was talking about one party's ideology dominating the curriculum in Canberra was in control of all schooling, I was thinking about a few specific cases besides the black armband debates: one was when Julie Bishop was education minister and she wanted everyone to follow Harold Bloom's theories. Another is the bloody frightening, nationalistic emphasis that has been placed on Anzac Day since Howard first came to power. Some people feel that the Libs use Anzac Day as a kind of Australian nationalistic origins myth in the same way that the ALP use Eureka and the Shearers' Strikes.

 

On a more personal note, I really enjoyed history at school but I find it disgusts me now to learn about the constant cycle of wars. We should be progressing as a society but we aren't.

 

 

 

often these two entities are blurred and nobody has an idea of whats good and whats evil anyway,

I am more sceptical about moral relativism. My views on the subject are still evolving and maturing though.

 

as a society becomes more sophisticated people become less self-sufficient and more co-dependent, Ideas and innovations are usually poo-pooed unless money can be made, even the village idiot can be right sometimes, ideology often masks itself as rationality (FOX NEWS) and that people need to harden the F**k up.

 

Yes Fox News is poison. Thank goodness we still have cross-media ownership laws here which is probably the one good thing about the media landscape in this country. Having said that about the populist media, Universities are just as bad. Commerce/business departments are awash with Harvard-trained hardcore capitalists and the Humanities world at certain unis still have a lot of old Marxist cultural theorists. I think as life progresses, most of us grow to discern the bullshit from the things of value though. I'd very much like to see a few changes to our universities: one thing would be a lot more accountability to give students more rights via an independent body that can handle complaints. (At the moment, the only options are to complain to the head of school and they will almost always side with their lecturer or to the student union, which is useless.) Julia was actually flagging an independent body like this three or four years ago but I haven't heard anything more of it.

 

Secondly, I would like to see uni positions be for fixed terms only, after which a lecturer must leave the job and return to work in the real world for a while. That would stop them becoming so bloody insular and means they would have to check their pet theories against what is happening out there in the actual workforce. Yes, it would mean they would have to leave research projects half way through if they weren't finished and another team would have to take over but it would be worth it to overcome a lot of the problems and politics and corruption I have seen in Australian tertiary education.

 

/end rant 2.

 

This is very interesting. Particularly the focus on the USA as the biggest influence. Where does this leave the Republican tendancy in Australia after the whole referendum is being part of the commonwealth now staus quo.

 

Would the introduction of a presidential figure make things better or worse for the electorate?

 

I'm against the republican idea, Its one of the few things I'm actually I'm actually conservative about - I simply don't trust the pollies enough to change anything, I'd image it would be like letting prisoners change the legal system.

P.S. Jeffrey Smart has died..any chance of a uk obit?

 

Yup...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Okay, here are my thoughts on the Republican debate: basically it was created by former Prime Minister Paul Keating as a distraction when Australia was going through a severe recession in the early 1990s. It is a bit like gay marriage debates occurring in many countries right now: an issue that raises passions and polarises the entire community but has little direct impact on the on the lives of the vast majority of people being used as a distraction during a period of economic crisis.

 

That said, up until recently I would have agreed with Body Snatcher that it is better to remain a monarchy. The Queen keeps the role above politics and it is largely a symbolic position: the Goveenor-General basically rubber stamps legislation and acts as a figurehead. Since the Whitlam dismissal fiasco, it is extremely unlikely a G-G will sack a government again. In the proposed minimalist model for a republic, the president would simply be the new name for the G-G, with no change in powers and appointment by parliament. Hence, the only change would be a symbolic one. It is the symbolism that nationalist types care about though, feeling we need to cut the strings with England, otherwise, we will 'look like an immature nation in the eyes of the world' (ie, America.) Hence, a lot of this is driven by a national inferiority complex and people wanting to get the notice of our 'big brother' America. Look up "cultural cringe" on Wikipedia for more on this aspect of the Aussie national psyche. Of course, Americans couldnt care less about us or our form of government and their influence over this nation is such that most thinking people are very much aware they are the real masters as per our previous discussions above.

 

The other model proposed would be a directly elected president which has the benefit of wrestling control from the hands of the politicians but politicises the whole office of president even more. A lot of people have expressed distaste at the thought of having US-style presidential elections with all their razzamatazz and associated bollocks. Anyway, because there were these two models, when it came to the referendum, then-Prime Minister John Howard (a hardline conservative and monarchist) was cunningly able to exploit divisions in the republican camp about which approach was best and the whole thing fell apart. It is possible the debate will arise again when QE2 dies, if it is politically opportune for whoever is in power by then. At the moment, it isn't on the radar at all though.

 

Now, as I said, I was a monarchist previously as I felt the whole thing was a waste of time, a blatant political distraction and appealed to the basest nationalistic impulses. I still feel all of that but I guess what has really made me dislike the royals are the Wikileak revelations about Prince Andrew and the antics of William and especially Harry. I don´t think such revolting people should be heads of state. Of course, the role is bigger then the personalities that fill it and having a politician as president will probably mean we end up with people who are as bad or worse but at least there would be more turnover. There are a few other factors involved as well which I won´t go into here.

 

Ultimately, though, it just isn´t that huge an issue unless the powers are associated with the role are changed or expanded, which would need an enormous amount of scrutiny.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Magere Hein
Formatting repaired

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Still no sign of Donald Mackay's remains after all these years: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-27/police-wrap-up-search-for-mackay-remains/4784524

[Body Snatcher 44 107]

Okay, here are my thoughts on the Republican debate: basically it was created by former Prime Minister Paul Keating as a distraction when Australia was going through a severe recession in the early 1990s. It is a bit like gay marriage debates occurring in many countries right now: an issue that raises passions and polarises the entire community but has little direct impact on the on the lives of the vast majority of people being used as a distraction during a period of economic crisis.

 

Ultimately the distractions fooled no-one.

 

That said, up until recently I would have agreed with Body Snatcher that it is better to remain a monarchy.

 

I would just like to clarify, I'm not really a monarchist - although I do have a healthy appreciation for the history behind centuries old institutions and I would like to be knighted someday I don't have an opinion on them either way (unless of course one of them dies). I consider myself to be more of a constitutionalist when it comes to this matter anyway.

 

The Queen keeps the role above politics and it is largely a symbolic position: the Goveenor-General basically rubber stamps legislation and acts as a figurehead. Since the Whitlam dismissal fiasco, it is extremely unlikely a G-G will sack a government again. In the proposed minimalist model for a republic, the president would simply be the new name for the G-G, with no change in powers and appointment by parliament. Hence, the only change would be a symbolic one. It is the symbolism that nationalist types care about though, feeling we need to cut the strings with England, otherwise, we will 'look like an immature nation in the eyes of the world' (ie, America.) Hence, a lot of this is driven by a national inferiority complex and people wanting to get the notice of our 'big brother' America. Look up "cultural cringe" on Wikipedia for more on this aspect of the Aussie national psyche. Of course, Americans couldnt care less about us or our form of government and their influence over this nation is such that most thinking people are very much aware they are the real masters as per our previous discussions above.

 

I too fear an Americanisation of Australian political system; although I do enjoy the company of Americans and consider the ones I know to be good friends and people of substance. In political terms I believe the US is starting to wane - partially due to the fact that Obama, who won two landslides, has had an uphill battle with every single thing he tries to do.

 

The other model proposed would be a directly elected president which has the benefit of wrestling control from the hands of the politicians but politicises the whole office of president even more. A lot of people have expressed distaste at the thought of having US-style presidential elections with all their razzamatazz and associated bollocks. Anyway, because there were these two models, when it came to the referendum, then-Prime Minister John Howard (a hardline conservative and monarchist) was cunningly able to exploit divisions in the republican camp about which approach was best and the whole thing fell apart. It is possible the debate will arise again when QE2 dies, if it is politically opportune for whoever is in power by then. At the moment, it isn't on the radar at all though.

 

Now, as I said, I was a monarchist previously as I felt the whole thing was a waste of time, a blatant political distraction and appealed to the basest nationalistic impulses. I still feel all of that but I guess what has really made me dislike the royals are the Wikileak revelations about Prince Andrew and the antics of William and especially Harry. I don´t think such revolting people should be heads of state. Of course, the role is bigger then the personalities that fill it and having a politician as president will probably mean we end up with people who are as bad or worse but at least there would be more turnover. There are a few other factors involved as well which I won´t go into here.

 

Ultimately, though, it just isn´t that huge an issue unless the powers are associated with the role are changed or expanded, which would need an enormous amount of scrutiny.

 

Ultimately we can discuss this until the cows come home (as dear old dad used to say) and as Davey rightly says it seems more useful as a political trump card to distract rather than enact upon. Personally I don't trust them enough to allow them to change the rules so significantly when they can't even produce a cohesive budget surplus or are too afraid to legalise same-sex marriage.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Politician Mark McArdle has prostate cancer: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-27/qld-minister-mark-mcardle-reveals-he-has-cancer/4785948