French speaking deathlist

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

I just watched the ancient Dr Who story, "The Moonbase" for the first time (it sucked) and I was surprised to learn that the French actor, Andre Maranne, who played Benoit, is still alive. Born 1926, so a good potential future pick for this pool.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Maranne

 

[msc 18,559]

1 hour ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

I just watched the ancient Dr Who story, "The Moonbase" for the first time (it sucked)

 

 

Fuck off!

 

Err, I mean, yep, he's alive, despite rumours to the contrary.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

22 hours ago, msc said:

 

Fuck off!

 

Err, I mean, yep, he's alive, despite rumours to the contrary.

To redeem myself, I watched the Ice Warriors for the first time afterwards. Bloody hell, it was like something written for today with the clash between the pro-science and anti-science factions over the environment, and both sides acting like a bunch of tossers. As someone who works in the IT industry who often has an urge to throw it all in and become a hippie luddite, I could really relate to the Sallis character and his attitude towards his wanker of a boss. The part about Troughton and the actual Ice Warriors was really just a sideshow to this.

 

Going to watch some of everyone's favourite space and time travelling French Huguenot, Jon Pertwee (real name de Perthuis de Laillevault) next. Seems to be an Aussie-only phenomenon but everyone I have ever spoken to down here who is old enough to have watched the show on first run, prefers Pertwee over Troughton. Judging by internet forums, the opposite is true just about everywhere else. Most prefer him over Tom Baker, too. I guess we prefer ours doctors with the eccentricity toned down a few notches. Either that or we have a secret infatuation with Tory dandies...

[msc 18,559]

That's because Pertwee is the best, clearly. Well, he's my favourite anyhow.

 

Ice Warriors is a lot better on screen than in the book, probably because of the quality of cast - not just Sallis, but Peter Barkworth (as his aforementioned wanker of a boss) and Angus Lennie too. Also the camera has more of a visual flair, it was directed by my 2013 DDP unique Derek Martinus, who at the time was one of the best TV directors working for the BBC.

 

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

17 hours ago, msc said:

That's because Pertwee is the best, clearly. Well, he's my favourite anyhow.

 

Ice Warriors is a lot better on screen than in the book, probably because of the quality of cast - not just Sallis, but Peter Barkworth (as his aforementioned wanker of a boss) and Angus Lennie too. Also the camera has more of a visual flair, it was directed by my 2013 DDP unique Derek Martinus, who at the time was one of the best TV directors working for the BBC.

 

 

With regard to Troughton versus Pertwee, yes, it seems that Troughton is more liked  in retrospect because he has had more influence on later doctors, like Matt Smith.

 

Ice Warriors: yes Angus Lennie's character is intriguing too. I wish they'd developed him more instead of unceremoniously killing him off like that... The science versus anti-science debate is never really resolved satisfactorily.  Perhaps one of those spin-off companies like Big Finish could do a prequel aimed at adults showing how these characters arrived where they were at in the story.

 

Anyway, I watched two stories starring Monsieur de Perthuis de Laillevault last night in a marathon. I had not seen either before. The first was Terror of the Autons. It was okay-ish but it is interesting to see just how jarring the change in tone from the Troughton era actually is. Not just because of the switch to colour television or the earthbound format but the grittiness of it with all the location shooting and professional stuntwork.  Barry Letts may have been an eccentric spiritualist/Buddhist type but he knew how to run a low-budget show.  Early Who has probably never looked so impressive.

 

As a story, I thought it was weak, though. I always thought the Autons were a bit naff and this story didn't do much to impress me either.  It was nice to see the introduction of the Master.  I was definitely not a hide-behind-the-sofa kid but the one time Dr Who scared me as a kid was seeing the Master's decompression gun leave little Voodoo doll corpses behind in stories like Traken and Logopolis.  I finally saw its origins here with the astronomer left in his lunchbox.  I'd have to go a bit Mary Whitehouse there and say it is going too far.  (After watching the story I saw the extra feature doco and saw that this was one that was especially cited for excessive violence with the amount of killings, the plastic couch smothering the bloke, etc.  The extra feature showed a guy who worked on the new series saying how they had toned the violence down for modern audiences, so I guess Mary won in the end.)

 

Monsieur de Perthuis de Laillevault did a good job apart from his blatant gurning when the telephone cord tried to strangle him.

 

The second story was The Demons.  I thought it was meant to be a classic.    I hated it.   I don't like Hammer Horror much so that probably didn't help but everything from the horrible acting of the white witch, to the rubber suit on the killer gargoyle was abysmal.  The attempts to rationalise the black magic aspects by making it into advanced science would have Arthur C Clarke writhing in his grave.

 

Also, watching the two stories back to back, it is interesting to see how inconsistent the Third Doctor is with his attitude to UNIT.  In Terror of the Autons, Pertwee is still very pacifist (how I am used to seeing him having watched Silurians and a few of his other stories.)  In Daemons, he still regards the Brigadier and his goons as dunces but doesn't seem to have any moral objection to their mission. He even tells Jo to be more respectful to her superior. 

 

Anyway, the best scene was Monsieur de Perthuis de Laillevault  using his motorcycle windshield as a whiteboard to draw his engineering schemata for the military blockhead.

 

Overall, I have seen much, much stronger Perthuis outings but he and Hartnell remain my two favourite doctors.

 

BTW, since you are a Perthuis fan, you have to go to this website. It may be the greatest on the internet. Don't ask how I come across these things. Just revel in the wonder that is....

 

http://jonpertweerecipebook.boards.net/

[msc 18,559]

Aha, forget DDP obit chances, finally I'm in my element here!

 

4 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

With regard to Troughton versus Pertwee, yes, it seems that Troughton is more liked  in retrospect because he has had more influence on later doctors, like Matt Smith.

 

There's many reasons the Troughton episodes get more love. For one thing, they were harder to see, so the fans of the 1980s rated a lot of the big episodes missing holy grail stories. Like Tomb of the Cybermen, a lost Cyberman classic. Then in the 90s it got found and people realised it was just ... not bad. Whereas the Pertwee stories have always been there. Also, there was a backlash because his Doctor was seen as a bit Tory. There's a bit in Terror of the Autons where he bullies the civil servant into helping the Brig by talking up his friendship with the chaps boss, and Paul Cornell wrote an entire article in a fanzine circa 1992 about how Tory this made the Doctor, and how un-Doctor. Now, your mileage may vary, but that scene's always struck me more as him bullshitting his arse off. Hah. Also yer man Pertwee gets far less leeway for being a bit tetchy than Troughton gets for the whole 2nd family thing or Tom Baker gets for the being a bit of a cunt at times thing.

 

4 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

 

Anyway, I watched two stories starring Monsieur de Perthuis de Laillevault last night in a marathon. I had not seen either before. The first was Terror of the Autons. It was okay-ish but it is interesting to see just how jarring the change in tone from the Troughton era actually is. Not just because of the switch to colour television or the earthbound format but the grittiness of it with all the location shooting and professional stuntwork.  Barry Letts may have been an eccentric spiritualist/Buddhist type but he knew how to run a low-budget show.  Early Who has probably never looked so impressive.

 

As a story, I thought it was weak, though. I always thought the Autons were a bit naff and this story didn't do much to impress me either.  It was nice to see the introduction of the Master.  I was definitely not a hide-behind-the-sofa kid but the one time Dr Who scared me as a kid was seeing the Master's decompression gun leave little Voodoo doll corpses behind in stories like Traken and Logopolis.  I finally saw its origins here with the astronomer left in his lunchbox.  I'd have to go a bit Mary Whitehouse there and say it is going too far. 

 

Terror of the Autons is the comic book sequel to the more serious Spearhead from Space. It's not as good, as it was signed quickly on the success of the first story, but it has a lot of set pieces that, if you see for the first aged 6, were bloody terrifying. The policemen for once, pretty sure one of our members would have loved the "all policemen are secret wrong uns" subtext there. Mary Whitehouse did go to town on it, which usually helped ratings considerably.

 

One thing to note. That bit where UNIT crash a jeep into the Auton policeman, and it falls 50 feet down a quarry ledge only to immediately rise again and start climbing? A fucking stuntman did that. Bloody impressive, and it's a throwaway moment in a kids show!

 

4 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Monsieur de Perthuis de Laillevault did a good job apart from his blatant gurning when the telephone cord tried to strangle him.

 

The second story was The Demons.  I thought it was meant to be a classic.    I hated it.   I don't like Hammer Horror much so that probably didn't help but everything from the horrible acting of the white witch, to the rubber suit on the killer gargoyle was abysmal. 

 

The telephone cord bit is brilliantly naff.

 

As for Daemons, if you don't like the stuff they're nicking the plot from, you likely wont like it. It is very much Hammer Horror (for kids) by numbers. Apparently it was Jon Pertwee and Nicholas Courtney's favourite story to film! I suspect this is not due to the quality of the story, and more because they spent 3 weeks in the local pub.

 

PS The white witch is Damaris Hayman, previously mentioned on this forum. 89 this year and I'd presume on her acting CV highly obitable.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

55 minutes ago, msc said:

Aha, forget DDP obit chances, finally I'm in my element here!

 

 

There's many reasons the Troughton episodes get more love. For one thing, they were harder to see, so the fans of the 1980s rated a lot of the big episodes missing holy grail stories. Like Tomb of the Cybermen, a lost Cyberman classic. Then in the 90s it got found and people realised it was just ... not bad. Whereas the Pertwee stories have always been there. Also, there was a backlash because his Doctor was seen as a bit Tory. There's a bit in Terror of the Autons where he bullies the civil servant into helping the Brig by talking up his friendship with the chaps boss, and Paul Cornell wrote an entire article in a fanzine circa 1992 about how Tory this made the Doctor, and how un-Doctor. Now, your mileage may vary, but that scene's always struck me more as him bullshitting his arse off. Hah. Also yer man Pertwee gets far less leeway for being a bit tetchy than Troughton gets for the whole 2nd family thing or Tom Baker gets for the being a bit of a cunt at times thing.

 

 

Terror of the Autons is the comic book sequel to the more serious Spearhead from Space. It's not as good, as it was signed quickly on the success of the first story, but it has a lot of set pieces that, if you see for the first aged 6, were bloody terrifying. The policemen for once, pretty sure one of our members would have loved the "all policemen are secret wrong uns" subtext there. Mary Whitehouse did go to town on it, which usually helped ratings considerably.

 

One thing to note. That bit where UNIT crash a jeep into the Auton policeman, and it falls 50 feet down a quarry ledge only to immediately rise again and start climbing? A fucking stuntman did that. Bloody impressive, and it's a throwaway moment in a kids show!

 

 

The telephone cord bit is brilliantly naff.

 

As for Daemons, if you don't like the stuff they're nicking the plot from, you likely wont like it. It is very much Hammer Horror (for kids) by numbers. Apparently it was Jon Pertwee and Nicholas Courtney's favourite story to film! I suspect this is not due to the quality of the story, and more because they spent 3 weeks in the local pub.

 

PS The white witch is Damaris Hayman, previously mentioned on this forum. 89 this year and I'd presume on her acting CV highly obitable.

Yes, I took it he was bluffing when he bullied the civil servant too.

 

I haven't seen Spearhead but I will do so eventually.

 

Interesting that Troughton is so liked when his Doctor is the least pacifist of all arguably, so out of synch with the character's later values. He has no issue with potentially poisoning ice warriors, setting up electric doors to kill anyone who tries to open the tomb of the cybermen and using the guards as cannon fodder for a diversion in Power pf the Daleks, to say nothing pf the Dominators, a blatantly anti-pacifist story (and apparently Troughton's real life favourite.)

 

Pertwee is where the pacifist version starts to gradually develop. His clashes with the Brigadier over morality of bombing the Silurians would have been unthinkable even one year earlier in the show.

 

It is also interesting that a guy with French Huguenot heritage would play the ,ost English and Tory of all the Doctors.

 

So what did you think of the Jon Pertwee Recipe Book forum? Are you traumatised yet? They manage to talk even more shit then we do on this site.

[msc 18,559]

Oh the cookbook forum is infamous!

 

If you watch the Peladon stories (which are dull) or Green Death, Pertwee's Doctor is a sort of aristocrat who spends a lot of time siding with the "honourable working class" against big business. So, perhaps he's actually Tony Benn.

 

A lot of that era is influenced by Letts, though.

[Toast 16,246]

Wouldn't you lot prefer this discussion to be moved to the Doctor Who thread where you'd be able to find it again?

[msc 18,559]

I presumed it WAS in the Who thread!

 

See, you bring up one 92 year old French comic actor...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

That's why I made a big deal of Jon Pertwee being a French Huguenot. I was at least half-trying to keep on topic.

 

Anyway, I enjoy the Peladon stories. Alpha Centauri is a legend. Good to see Pertwee off earth and away from the military. Haven't watched Green Death yet but I understand there is more hippie Luddite material in it so I should like it when I see it.

[Bibliogryphon 9,653]

Pertwee is at his best off Earth. Curse of Peladon is great and I adore Carnival of Monsters but I think Troughton is the most accomplished actor to play the role with the possible exception of Christopher Ecclestone.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

On 3/19/2018 at 23:18, Bibliogryphon said:

Pertwee is at his best off Earth. Curse of Peladon is great and I adore Carnival of Monsters but I think Troughton is the most accomplished actor to play the role with the possible exception of Christopher Ecclestone.

... And Frontier in Space is another great Pertwee off-earth one. 

 

Pity Ecclestone did not have another year to grow into the role. 

 

Besides the Second Doctor's anti-pacifist stance, I don't like Troughton as a person after reading about his biography.  Second family on the side, a fetish for urinating in public (on golf courses), etc.  Everyone considered him a very strange man, including Pertwee, who thought he was very eccentric indeed.

[Bibliogryphon 9,653]

12 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

... And Frontier in Space is another great Pertwee off-earth one. 

 

Pity Ecclestone did not have another year to grow into the role. 

I maintain that Christopher Ecclestone was a Trojan horse to get David Tennant into the role.

[msc 18,559]

Perhaps, though I suggest the chat goes here

 

 

before poor old Handrejka has nightmares...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,325]

Back on topic, Sarkozy's in all kinds of strife:  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-21/nicolas-sarkozy-former-french-president-police-custody-gaddafi/9570138

[BeretBleu 142]

Jean Marie Le Pen is hospitalized since a week 

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2018/04/06/97001-20180406FILWWW00095-jean-marie-le-pen-hospitalise-depuis-une-semaine-pour-une-grippe.php

[Lafaucheuse 4,095]

On 06/04/2018 at 11:09, BeretBleu said:

Jean Marie Le Pen is hospitalized since a week 

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2018/04/06/97001-20180406FILWWW00095-jean-marie-le-pen-hospitalise-depuis-une-semaine-pour-une-grippe.php

jean marie ?? il vient juste de sortir ses mémoires, c'est peut-être un signe !? 

[Lafaucheuse 4,095]

On 06/04/2018 at 11:09, BeretBleu said:

Jean Marie Le Pen is hospitalized since a week 

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2018/04/06/97001-20180406FILWWW00095-jean-marie-le-pen-hospitalise-depuis-une-semaine-pour-une-grippe.php

Comment as-tu fais pour prévoir Jacques Higelin ???

[Lafaucheuse 4,095]

je suis le seul à parler français ici 

[En Passant 3,758]

1 minute ago, Lafaucheuse said:

je suis le seul à parler français ici 

Non, vous êtes aussi loin que je sais alors que personne française réelle ici. Cependant avec la traduction Internet un clic loin vous êtes loin du seul orateur français.

(fuck knows if that even makes sense, if it doesn't it wasn't me guv).

[Lafaucheuse 4,095]

3 minutes ago, En Passant said:

Non, vous êtes aussi loin que je sais alors que personne française réelle ici. Cependant avec la traduction Internet un clic loin vous êtes loin du seul orateur français.

(fuck knows if that even makes sense, if it doesn't it wasn't me guv).

It doesn't mean anything but I will be kind and say "yeah lol you're right"

[En Passant 3,758]

Bless you monsieur. Too kind. 

[Lafaucheuse 4,095]

Just now, En Passant said:

Bless you monsieur. Too kind. 

I know, I know ! (call me if u need French lessons ) 

[BeretBleu 142]

15 minutes ago, Lafaucheuse said:

Comment as-tu fais pour prévoir Jacques Higelin ???

there were some rumours in december he was very ill ( his friend Bernard Lavilliers told that Johnny Hallyday and Jacques Higelin were not in good shape...)