Koch Brothers

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

Republican megadonor and philanthropist David Koch is retiring from political activities over ill health, he is 78.

[maryportfuncity 10,684]

So, they're younger than the Barclay brothers, then

[Spade_Cooley 9,630]

Topic subheader not "stiffs"?

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

Mad at Trump over tariffs.

[CarolAnn 926]

2 hours ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

Mad at Trump over tariffs.

Welcome to the club!

I assume that without the Koch's money being guzzled by Republican corpo(rat)e sellouts this year, Democrats will now have better odds at taking the House and Senate.

 

You know what assuming does.

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

On 06/06/2018 at 23:03, CarolAnn said:

 

You know what assuming does.

Well, the Kochs are the reason why so many Republicans are in our Congress right now, and there's nobody to replace them after their retirement.

[CarolAnn 926]

18 hours ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

Well, the Kochs are the reason why so many Repugnants are in our Congress right now, and there's nobody to replace them after their retirement.

 

Donors come and donors go. Their money goes somewhere. Nothing will change. 

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

3 hours ago, CarolAnn said:

 

Donors come and donors go. Their money goes somewhere. Nothing will change. 

That is a point. But these people are the 6th richest people in the world and outweigh most Democratic donors. I think they'll be reluctant to give their money away to Republican donors when they have opposed Trump harshly. 

[Tower1 93]

I think they are very selfish people who care only for their money. They want to pay no taxes and to have no ecological laws so they buy politicians to achieve this. It´s sad when richest people don´t want to help society but only want more money.

[CarolAnn 926]

23 hours ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

That is a point. But these people are the 6th richest people in the world and outweigh most Democratic donors. I think they'll be reluctant to give their money away to Republican donors when they have opposed Trump harshly. 

 

Trump will not be a factor in the greater scheme. The Koch brothers may well outlive his tenure. They may not. If they don't, they have heirs. The political climate will swing once more and largess will flow to the Republicans. 

 

After all, they are only the most celebrated Republican donors, not the only ones.

 

Politicians - and their donors - have short memories and function from interest to interest. The past is the past when it comes to what the donors want and what the politicians promise to deliver. In this political climate, what is most important to conservatives is that Congress stay in the hands of the Republicans, and the Koch brothers will act to see this happens regardless of their retirement status. On top of that, Republican supporters will take food off the table to send money in to their local congressional elections. They hate Democrats that much.

 

Senators elected today do not leave office for six years. Multiple Republican senators are far more important than one President, no matter how stupid his base is.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter one bit whether the Koch brother live, die, or take all their money and hoard it in a yurt in Ulaanbaatar with George Soros as a roommate. Ain't no politician gonna suffer long term over Trump. He is simply a blip - an incredibly embarrassing, aggravating and ignorant blip, but a blip who will fade away and be remembered to history as America's worst hour, despite my brother's protestations to the contrary. 

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

10 minutes ago, CarolAnn said:

 

Trump will not be a factor in the greater scheme. The Koch brothers may well outlive his tenure. They may not. If they don't, they have heirs. The political climate will swing once more and largess will flow to the Republicans. 

 

After all, they are only the most celebrated Republican donors, not the only ones.

 

Politicians - and their donors - have short memories and function from interest to interest. The past is the past when it comes to what the donors want and what the politicians promise to deliver. In this political climate, what is most important to conservatives is that Congress stay in the hands of the Republicans, and the Koch brothers will act to see this happens regardless of their retirement status. On top of that, Republican supporters will take food off the table to send money in to their local congressional elections. They hate Democrats that much.

 

Senators elected today do not leave office for six years. Multiple Republican senators are far more important than one President, no matter how stupid his base is.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter one bit whether the Koch brother live, die, or take all their money and hoard it in a yurt in Ulaanbaatar with George Soros as a roommate. Ain't no politician gonna suffer long term over Trump. He is simply a blip - an incredibly embarrassing, aggravating and ignorant blip, but a blip who will fade away and be remembered to history as America's worst hour, despite my brother's protestations to the contrary. 

I agree for the most part, but this President's actions will (and already are) causing a dent in what it means to be a Republican and a conservative, it's also offsetting millennials, gen z, minorities, and women more than Romney and McCain ever could have. This President's trade war and repeal of environmental regulations in the name of isolationism and nationalism will put our nation back for decades and deeply endanger our country's security and democracy. Children in Tennessee are being born and taught to tie the words democracy and democrat together, and that will put a stigma on what has made this 242-year-old experiment great. What I'm trying to say, is that this Trump phenomenon won't disappear when he leaves office in 2021, or god forbid 2024 or later. On the other end, the GOP and the politicians that bathe in the money of the Koch and Vander Plaats families should still be very worried, there is still a fine line between what's acceptable and what isn't, despite our President constantly putting his toes to the edge of that line. The GOP will soon have a rude awakening that Trumpism isn't going to work in the next few years, whether it be through failure in elections or a constitutional crisis that destroys the meaning of their job in Congress. What I'm trying to say is that we won't forget about Trump as easily as previous trailblazers in the White House like Reagan, Roosevelt, Kennedy, or Nixon, we will have to suffer the consequences of his attacks on our institutions and traditions for decades. I'm already saving up for a move to Canada, and I advise anybody that cares about themselves to do so as well.

[Joey Russ 7,263]

While it’s certainly a valid point that the effects of trumpism will last for decades, I’m not sure that your last point of saving up money to move to Canada is really the right choice. Every time that something that’s very negative happen in any country, they eventually learn to rebuild themselves up and move on, and while the impact can still be somewhat felt, they can become more prosperous. Take a look at Germany for example, they went through a very rough period when they were ruled by the Nazi’s party as well as a period of being separated due to the Cold War, yet now they are a country with a very strong democracy. The effects of two events doesn’t tarnish the fact that Germany is in a much better place than they were many years ago. I feel that once the US gets out of the era of Trump’s politics, there will definitely be a period where we have an opportunity to be able to rebuild ourselves into a better society. Partisan politics may get in the way somewhat, but millennials are getting much more involved in activism than our previous generation, and the impact is definitely having an impact. If all these people advocating for change leave to go to a society that is better than the US right now like Canada or Finland, than not only will the effects of Trumpism last longer, but it tells the people who don’t care about change that they have much more power than we do because they are all fleeing this country.

Even if I have the money to move to a much better place, I won’t be considering to move to another country because I want to give the US an opportunity to try and rebuild itself into a better nation. The process is certainly far from an easy one. But the end result will definitely be worth it in the end.

[Zsa Zsa's leg 886]

1 hour ago, Joey Russ said:

While it’s certainly a valid point that the effects of trumpism will last for decades, I’m not sure that your last point of saving up money to move to Canada is really the right choice. Every time that something that’s very negative happen in any country, they eventually learn to rebuild themselves up and move on, and while the impact can still be somewhat felt, they can become more prosperous. Take a look at Germany for example, they went through a very rough period when they were ruled by the Nazi’s party as well as a period of being separated due to the Cold War, yet now they are a country with a very strong democracy. The effects of two events doesn’t tarnish the fact that Germany is in a much better place than they were many years ago. I feel that once the US gets out of the era of Trump’s politics, there will definitely be a period where we have an opportunity to be able to rebuild ourselves into a better society. Partisan politics may get in the way somewhat, but millennials are getting much more involved in activism than our previous generation, and the impact is definitely having an impact. If all these people advocating for change leave to go to a society that is better than the US right now like Canada or Finland, than not only will the effects of Trumpism last longer, but it tells the people who don’t care about change that they have much more power than we do because they are all fleeing this country.

Even if I have the money to move to a much better place, I won’t be considering to move to another country because I want to give the US an opportunity to try and rebuild itself into a better nation. The process is certainly far from an easy one. But the end result will definitely be worth it in the end.

Germany wasn't the leader of the free world for a century, and had a much smaller population than ours. It also had a literal wall separating the two nations with militarization at the border kin to the Korean DMZ. If America's recovery is in any way similar to Germany's, Canada might be the right choice. Germany's democracy has also struggled recently due to Merkel's inability to form a government and the rise of nationalist party's in the latest election. 

[msc 18,536]

Ah good, a thread about American politics and Trump. We really don't have enough of those!

 

4 hours ago, Joey Russ said:

Take a look at Germany for example, they went through a very rough period when they were ruled by the Nazi’s party as well as a period of being separated due to the Cold War, yet now they are a country with a very strong democracy. The effects of two events doesn’t tarnish the fact that Germany is in a much better place than they were many years ago.

 

Joey, I'd like to suggest that if your advice is "Hey, Germany wasn't looking good when Hitler took over BUT SEVENTY YEARS LATER THINGS ARE BETTER", then it might not be as reassuring as you'd have hoped!

[Joey Russ 7,263]

Maybe Germany isn’t the right argument to support my point. Tbf, it was a rant written at 11 pm, so some of my memory shuts off by then. I’m sure that there’s a better example of a country that has brought itself into a better place than Germany though, I’m sure of it. 

 

I do feel that my general point still stands though, which is that millennials are getting more politically involved into activities and that the effects of Trumpism may not be as impactful if we try to rebuild our society into a better place. I say this because, as I said in my last rant, if all of the millennials leave, then it shows the Trump supporters that they have much more power than we do and they have the right to show that we’re cowards rather than people who are willing to bring change (though they don’t really care either way). But, let’s say that all the millennials who saved up enough money to go to Canada do leave this country so they can go to a better place. What would that leave behind? Well, it would really leave behind two types of people: those who supports Trump’s policy and those who are below the poverty line and are unable to leave even if they wanted to. I feel that if people leave the US rather than to try and rebuild it into a better society, they would be quite selfish of themselves not because the things that Canada offer are quite strong (many of them are necessary imo), but because they care more about themselves rather than those who don’t have that opportunity. I would rather suffer the pain so it would allow the opportunity for others to be in that better place, even if I die before that can be fully realized, than to be selfish and just ignore all of those who are suffering. It just doesn’t feel right.

[CarolAnn 926]

Young people are loudly liberal until they grow up, have kids, get college degrees/professional jobs, and have to pay a mortgage. The Baby Boomers the Millenials are accusing of taking away the future were once flower children putting daisies in the weapons of the National Guard. 

 

When your livelihood and your family's house/food/clothing/education are involved, it is suddenly very important how business in the US is being treated, and that is definitely a Republican position. 

 

Every President leaves a mark on the country that lasts for generations. The immigration problems we are currently all arguing about? They largely stem from Reagan's handling of communism in Central America in the 1980s. The US went in, unseated a bunch of communist and communist sympathizing leaders, destabilized the entire region and then left. It still hasn't regained the stability that we removed in the name of a red scare that wasn't a threat to us in the slightest. 

 

Reagan or any other president are not forgotten - people simply stop associating current problems with past actions. We have short memories and little understanding of cause and effect in politics and government and international relations.

 

Hysteria and posturing about leaving is an overreaction IMO. This republic has survived worse than Trump. You are correct in saying the Republican politicians will eventually stop supporting him, but won't be for any reason other than he has become toxic to them. This is also a constant theme in American government. Until the House Impeachment Committee released a vote to send Articles of Impeachment to the floor of the House and Nixon's approval rating had plummeted after firing Cox, most Republicans stood behind Nixon no matter how bad it got. Nixon also played identity and partisan politics, rode an anti-media line, and got the Southern Democrats (who are now Republicans) on board, even toward the end. Conservative media harped on Watergate as a liberal conspiracy. Jesse Helms used to rail against the New York Times-Washington Post syndicate controlling everything Americans read.

 

Here's a little 200+ year old cause and effect that still reverberates through the United States. An obviously conflicted Thomas Jefferson removed the following from the Declaration of Independence so South Carolina would acquiesce to the Declaration:

“Determined to keep open a market where men should be bought and sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce.”

 

The following passage is contained in the United States Constitution, Article I, Section 2. Clause 3:

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."

 

The first emboldened the southern states to fight for the second. The second cause the US government to be dominated by slave interests until the Civil War. These two clauses probably set the stage for the Civil War, which in turn set the stage for the economic and societal issues we deal with today. 

 

Our founding fathers, who everyone holds up and asks "what did they intend?" basically intended this. They set up a country stained from the first step off of Britain's stage - a country founded on the premise that it was acceptable for one man to be another man's property based on the color of skin. 

 

Yet the republic survives.

 

History cycles. May you live in interesting times.

 

 

 

[Putin 423]

David Koch is dead aged 79

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/david-koch-dead.html&ved=0ahUKEwjq19jQvprkAhXcAxAIHdBtBE4QqQIIMygBMAE&usg=AOvVaw0-0PrJItdPGYBdrzca_IRM

[Joey Russ 7,263]

Frederick Koch, the oldest of the four Koch brothers (although nowhere as vile as David and Charles Koch) is dead at 86

[roaming_comrade 471]

Impossible, I just googled this guy 10 hours ago