satboy 2 Posted July 28, 2005 I see they've suspended the Space Shuttle programme while they sort out the tile problem... Doesn't really address the immediate issue though, does it? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Die 63 Posted July 28, 2005 If it's a serious problem the astronauts will have to go to the space station whilst NASA works out Plan B. I think Plan B involves sending up another shuttle to rescue them..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VileBody 11 Posted July 28, 2005 I'm no engineer but you'd have thought a basic requirement of most forms of high speed transport is that bits don't fall off it too often. Maybe better glue? According to Tom Wolfe's book, The Right Stuff, the original astronauts had a much higher chance of dying when they were test pilots on prototype jets than when they were doing the space missions - the remaining test pilots got quite pissed off about it not surprisingly. Isn't it nice not being hungover sometimes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magere Hein 1,400 Posted July 28, 2005 I'm no engineer but you'd have thought a basic requirement of most forms of high speed transport is that bits don't fall off it too often. Maybe better glue? Some bits of the space shuttle are supposed to fall off during launch, such as the solid fuel booster rockets and the external fuel tank. I've heard a NASA person say something like: "In the past bits fell off as well, but we only found out during inspection after landing. Now we've put camera's on the thing and we actually see it." The space shuttle is an engineering nightmare. The number of parts is huge (I've read something like a million) and catastrophic failure can be caused by each and every one of them, and their connections. Ground testing can only be done partially, the only total test is actual space flight. According to Tom Wolfe's book, The Right Stuff, the original astronauts had a much higher chance of dying when they were test pilots on prototype jets than when they were doing the space missions - the remaining test pilots got quite pissed off about it not surprisingly. Before the space shuttle, the only NASA fatalities were the Apollo 1 crew, who died in a ground accident. Apollo 13 was a close shave, though. Of course, compared to the space shuttle the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft were much simpler machines. regards, Hein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Die 63 Posted July 28, 2005 Latest.... NASA has grounded the remaining space shuttle fleet after a large piece of foam insulation broke away from Discovery's fuel tank during lift-off. A spokesman said future flights would be put on hold until the problem had been corrected and all the spacecraft had been inspected. The foam could have caused catastrophic damage to Discovery if it had broken away earlier in flight. A similar incident caused Columbia to disintegrate on re-entry to the Earth's atmosphere in 2003, killing seven crew members. Shuttle programme manager Bill Parsons said: "We need to do some work here. "We are telling you right now that the foam should not have come off." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VileBody 11 Posted July 28, 2005 Before the space shuttle, the only NASA fatalities were the Apollo 1 crew, who died in a ground accident. Apollo 13 was a close shave, though. Of course, compared to the space shuttle the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft were much simpler machines. Quite a lot of other astronauts have died in jet crashes when they fly themselves between training centres etc. Apparently they tend to like dogfighting with each other in supersonic fighters for a laugh.... Anyway, glad I don't have to drive the bloody shuttle for a living. Bet I get paid more than those daft buggers too.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Die 63 Posted August 2, 2005 This article refers to the Discovery crew as the "Columbia crew" - a Freudian slip? http://www.itv.com/news/world_1987221.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honez 79 Posted August 2, 2005 Bet I get paid more than those daft buggers too.... Probably not. If you work out what you'll get paid in your lifetime and divide it by the number of hours you've worked, you'll not end up getting anywhere near as much as those guys do. There's a good chance they'll earn all their lifetime's salary in a week or so and then get paid a life insurance lump sum at the end of it. I bet your better half wishes you were an astronaut now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VileBody 11 Posted August 2, 2005 Yes you may be right - but I rather doubt it given that I believe they have to do a wee bit of training before they fly the thing. Or maybe they don't and that's one reason it keeps crashing. Mrs VileBody says that she wishes I had a very large private income... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Yeti 14 Posted August 2, 2005 Just wait until Branson gets his rocket off the ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honez 79 Posted August 2, 2005 Yes you may be right - but I rather doubt it given that I believe they have to do a wee bit of training before they fly the thing. Or maybe they don't and that's one reason it keeps crashing. Mrs VileBody says that she wishes I had a very large private income... I don't understand why they waste all that money on training. All they seem to do is lie on their backs for a couple of hours before they light the blue touchpaper and the computer flies them up into orbit. And a fully trained pilot seems overkill for the return journey. No matter how much training they give him/her, a couple of hundred tons of flaming catherine-wheel isn't going to respond to feathering the controls no matter what the NASA procedures say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bald rick 9 Posted August 2, 2005 I don't understand why they waste all that money on training. All they seem to do is lie on their backs for a couple of hours before they light the blue touchpaper and the computer flies them up into orbit. And a fully trained pilot seems overkill for the return journey. No matter how much training they give him/her, a couple of hundred tons of flaming catherine-wheel isn't going to respond to feathering the controls no matter what the NASA procedures say. I think the training is supposed to prevent the shuttle turning into 'a couple of hundred tons of flaming catherine-wheel'. Maybe, on the off-chance, if it does get back through the upper atmosphere NASA thought it would be a good idea to have someone on board who would be able to glide it back to base, rather than plummeting nose-first into a cornfield. Just a thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honez 79 Posted August 2, 2005 I think the training is supposed to prevent the shuttle turning into 'a couple of hundred tons of flaming catherine-wheel'. Maybe, on the off-chance, if it does get back through the upper atmosphere NASA thought it would be a good idea to have someone on board who would be able to glide it back to base, rather than plummeting nose-first into a cornfield. Just a thought. Pah. What piffle. It'd never work I tell yuz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,662 Posted August 2, 2005 Re the training: They're doing a spacewalk today, checking flailing sealant on the underside. There is nothing in the manual about this work. One thing lots of training does give you is plenty of experience checking things. The astronauts in the Challenger disaster in 1986 were working pointless but very hard to bring their terminally wounded craft under control, following their training. That cockpit voice recorder would make an interesting listen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magere Hein 1,400 Posted August 2, 2005 ...flailing sealant on the underside... That sounds like an extremely dangerous job to do in vacuum. regards, Hein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrunoBrimley 86 Posted August 2, 2005 Watching the news program last night and seeing it explained certainly made me feel nervous for these astronauts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Grendel 139 Posted August 2, 2005 One thing lots of training does give you is plenty of experience checking things. The astronauts in the Challenger disaster in 1986 were working pointless but very hard to bring their terminally wounded craft under control, following their training. That cockpit voice recorder would make an interesting listen. There is a transcript on Wilkipedia there is a further transcript at blurofinsanity.com I first read this about 17 years ago when a friend had a copy, not sure how genuine it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anubis the Jackal 77 Posted August 2, 2005 There is a transcript on Wilkipedia there is a further transcript at www.blurofinsanity.com/challenger.html.I first read this about 17 years ago when a friend had a copy, not sure how genuine it is. Hmm. So this presumes that a personal recorder would have survived the total burn-up and impact of the spacecraft. My walkman broke after I dropped it 4 foot onto some lino, therefore I'm not having that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrunoBrimley 86 Posted August 2, 2005 So this presumes that a personal recorder would have survived the total burn-up and impact of the spacecraft. My walkman broke after I dropped it 4 foot onto some lino, therefore I'm not having that. My understanding is that they have recording devices which are somehow directly linked into a box. This then goes a step further and similar to a computers hard drive you have a permanent recording which is almost impossible to destroy under even extreme circumstances. Add to this that NASA most undoubtedly had a recording thing going on with the spacecraft as everything was falling apart and it is easier to understand how we can have a transcript of the last moments. Maybe these astonauts were given access to the latest technology and so they had personal recorders that could indeed withstand some overwhelming factors. Perhaps just as the Challenger exploded, the recording device was flung towards the earth and landed on a bale of hay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anubis the Jackal 77 Posted August 2, 2005 Perhaps just as the Challenger exploded, the recording device was flung towards the earth and landed on a bale of hay. Ah, that'll explain it. Thanks once again to the ever-resourceful Mr. B. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VileBody 11 Posted August 2, 2005 So let me get this straight. They have this high tech plating on the shuttle which stops them turning into chargrilled burger on re-entry. It presumably takes a gazillion dollar factory plant about 6 months to make this stuff and stick it on the bodywork. They're now going to rummage about in the tool box to find some spare plates that are sort of the right shape. They're going to get them to fit using the commander's nail file, then they nip outside with gloves the size of baseball mitts and a tube of superglue and everything'll be fine... Yeah. Right. I return to my earlier point - glad I don't drive the bloody thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,662 Posted August 2, 2005 Not quite, they snip off the trails of loose glue that have shaken themselves loose, slap in a bit more mix and try to avoid incontinence at the thought they're trusting this botch job to keep them from incineration in a few days. Maybe they should rename it the space shittle! Other than that I'm with you, drive a Honda not a space shuttle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim Reaper 186 Posted August 2, 2005 Presumably at this stage NASA usually call on the experience of one of the world's top space travel engineers who have been through this sort of trauma time after time...but I understand James Doohan's cellphone is going straight to voice mail Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VileBody 11 Posted August 3, 2005 Maybe they should rename it the space shittle! Crapping yourself in a space suit must have some real down sides.... Urgh.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrunoBrimley 86 Posted August 3, 2005 Maybe they should rename it the space shittle! Crapping yourself in a space suit must have some real down sides.... Urgh.... Better inside the suit than out. I don't really want to even start to begin to envision what a mess it would be on the outside of the body glove. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
