Formula 1 & Other Motor Racing

[M.Lawrenson 11]

I'll believe nowt until the true authorities OoO and Lawrenson have spoken. The Octopus appears of the opinion that Schumi will shuffle off, quite possibly as world champion. If he gets an 8th title I reckon no-one is ever likely to touch his record.

 

I believe nothing until grandprix.com says so. There have been rumours about Schumi's retirement there for months, but today I feel safe in believing them.

 

A lot of long time F1 fans will be happy, but I'm not. Schumacher's been there since I seriously started watching F1 in 1992, so with his departure I become a little older. Thankfully, Barrichello's still going (and has been since 1993), so it's a while yet until every F1 driver is younger than I am - Coulthard, Trulli, Fisichella long may you drive!

[Rotten Ali 600]

M.Lawrenson Posted Today, 12:22 AM

QUOTE(maryportfuncity @ Sep 6 2006, 04:13 PM)

 

I'll believe nowt until the true authorities OoO and Lawrenson have spoken. The Octopus appears of the opinion that Schumi will shuffle off, quite possibly as world champion. If he gets an 8th title I reckon no-one is ever likely to touch his record.

 

 

 

I believe nothing until grandprix.com says so. There have been rumours about Schumi's retirement there for months, but today I feel safe in believing them.

 

A lot of long time F1 fans will be happy, but I'm not. Schumacher's been there since I seriously started watching F1 in 1992, so with his departure I become a little older. Thankfully, Barrichello's still going (and has been since 1993), so it's a while yet until every F1 driver is younger than I am - Coulthard, Trulli, Fisichella long may you drive!

 

Well, as I've been an F1 devotee since 1976, I've been very interested to watch all my "old" racing stars in the masters series, now that I've long reached an age far greater (40) than those starting each Grand Prix. I'll even voice the opinion that Eddie Cheever's win at Silverstone well makes up for doing no better than about 4 times he finished 2nd to Prosty and co. back in '83. As regards racing costing lives still, this news about the carbon fibre brake dust looks far more serious than the impact risk of hitting each other or the scenery.

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Indeed Ali, I take the point about Salo's smoker's lungs but the reports at the time specifically mentioned carbon dust in his lungs, not tar. That doesn't mean it all came from his F1 cars, but it obviously came from machines so technically advanced that the brakes were carbon.

 

Given the longer careers enjoyed by the top racers now that's something we might start hearing more about in years to come.

 

Incidentally, on a total trivial point. When Schumi does announce he's out at 37 and the papers do the predictable 'is he the greatest ever?' write ups, a few of them will probably point out that he's leaving this level of racing at - near enough - the age Fangio started it!

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Indeed Ali, I take the point about Salo's smoker's lungs but the reports at the time specifically mentioned carbon dust in his lungs, not tar. That doesn't mean it all came from his F1 cars, but it obviously came from machines so technically advanced that the brakes were carbon.

 

Given the longer careers enjoyed by the top racers now that's something we might start hearing more about in years to come.

 

Brake dust has always been there. Look at any post-race photo of drivers from the 1950s (Brooks, Moss, Phil Hill etc.) - their faces are filthy with brake dust. They were cast iron rather than carbon back then, but inhaling all those particles wouldn't have done their lungs any good. It's possible that iron is more easily eliminated from the body than carbon fibre, but you'd have to ask a physiologist about that.

 

For a decent scientific test, you'd have to check quite a few drivers (though I can't see many queueing up for lung biopsies). I'd like to know the results from someone who drove for a long time in CF-braked cars, but has been retired for a long time - to see what shape the lungs are in and check for long term C damage. Fatty Nannini could be a candidate, but his lungs are ruined by smoking, and I'm not sure they'd be able to get a tissue sample through all the lard. Patrese and de Cesaris perhaps, as they didn't race for a long time following their F1 retirements.

[Tuber Mirum 126]

I reckon M. Schumacher will decide to retire after this season or not, depending on how good his chances of getting the championship look after tomorrow's race. Typically mean of Ferarri complaining about Alonso and getting him stuck back in tenth place. Quite unsportsmanlike.

 

 

What about this Sebastian Vettel then? A flash in the pan, or Germany's next world champion? What does the panel think?

[M.Lawrenson 11]

What about this Sebastian Vettel then? A flash in the pan, or Germany's next world champion? What does the panel think?

 

From what I've read Vettel is good. We'll be able to tell how good he is when BMW Sauber turn off their PR machine, and put him in a car that has more than 2 laps of fuel in the tank and tyres that are not fresh out the Michelin moulds.

[Banshees Scream 110]

and put him in a car that has more than 2 laps of fuel in the tank and tyres that are not fresh out the Michelin moulds.

 

Dear Mr.Lawrenson please go back to school. A bomb planted right under the drivers seat would do just fine.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,217]

What about this Sebastian Vettel then? A flash in the pan, or Germany's next world champion? What does the panel think?

 

Good, but on the basis of his performance as 3rd driver & tester this year, Adrian Sutil is a better prospect, IMO.

 

He was due to perhaps get a chance next year with Midland, but now they've been taken over by a Dutch company, Spyker, I'm not sure what'll happen.

[Tuber Mirum 126]

What about this Sebastian Vettel then? A flash in the pan, or Germany's next world champion? What does the panel think?

 

Good, but on the basis of his performance as 3rd driver & tester this year, Adrian Sutil is a better prospect, IMO.

 

He was due to perhaps get a chance next year with Midland, but now they've been taken over by a Dutch company, Spyker, I'm not sure what'll happen.

 

Spyker eh? That's what Kenneth More drove in Genivieve. Didn't know they still made them.

 

A Dutch-German sporting collaboration sounds a bit unlikely to me. Still, if Sutil is a good man you won't be able to keep him down.

 

Vettel is BMW Sauber's third driver for the 2006 Turkish Grand Prix, as former incumbent Robert Kubica was called up to replace the departed Jacques Villeneuve for the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix.

When's the funeral then?

 

I see Alonso is saying F1 is no longer a sport.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Spyker eh? That's what Kenneth More drove in Genivieve. Didn't know they still made them.

 

A Dutch-German sporting collaboration sounds a bit unlikely to me. Still, if Sutil is a good man you won't be able to keep him down.

Spyker (the Dutch word for nail, BTW) is an old name in car and motorcycle manufacturing. My dad used to own one of their motorbikes.

 

regards,

Hein

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

So it's official, the worst kept secret in F1 finally made 'public' by the man himself. He could be the first champion since Jackie Stewart in 1973 to quit whilst reigning champ. I think we can rule out Mansell's hissy fit in 1992 when he wandered over to America because Prost was contracted to Williams for 1993.

 

Will Schumi make it alive to the end of the season?

 

Almost certainly.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,217]

He could be the first champion since Jackie Stewart in 1973 to quit whilst reigning champ.

 

Prost - 1993.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,217]

One insider tip for the future, though. Kubica will be a World Champion in years to come. You mark my words.

 

3rd GP, 6 laps led, 1 podium.

 

On the podium today, you were looking at one past world champion & two future ones.

 

re. Sutil, latest rumours link Albers & Doornbos to Spyker - an all Dutchy team with Valles, a Spaniard as a test driver. But we'll see. Sutil will be somewhere in F1 next year, I'm sure.

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Prost - 1993.

 

Oops, shooting from the hip again.

 

Incidentally OoO, how's the weather in Italy? Looked okay on my telly.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,217]

Incidentally OoO, how's the weather in Italy? Looked okay on my telly.

 

Looked okay from my telly too.

 

I CAN tell you the weather in Aylesbury is lovely.

 

I've already told you, I work in motor sport, but not the current F1. Looking at the scrum today, I'm glad. But with F1, my sources are slightly better than the average man on the street

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Aye, I was just joshin. Not sure I fancy fighting in that high octane, loveless petrol-head scrum either. There's sea, sand and some suprisingly good late-summer sun to be enjoyed in West Cumbria today. Might gan' doon the harbour for chips later.

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

Say hello to the horse in the Chip Shop from me.

 

There's sea, sand and some suprisingly good late-summer sun to be enjoyed in West Cumbria today. Might gan' doon the harbour for chips later.

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Do any of the usual experts - Lawro and OoO - recognise this clip or know the story? I'm guessing from what we see and the grim music that it's a fatality and that the second car involved hits debris left from the first accident, whereupon the driver of the second car is probably killed by the impact. Hope for his sake he was, the subsequent fire isn't too funny.

 

Not recommended for the nervous but it's nowhere near as grim as Tom Pryce or Lorenzo Bandini.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,217]

Do any of the usual experts - Lawro and OoO - recognise this clip or know the story? I'm guessing from what we see and the grim music that it's a fatality and that the second car involved hits debris left from the first accident, whereupon the driver of the second car is probably killed by the impact. Hope for his sake he was, the subsequent fire isn't too funny.

 

Not recommended for the nervous but it's nowhere near as grim as Tom Pryce or Lorenzo Bandini.

 

 

If you read the comments, it says what the accident was - and yes, they all SURVIVED - both drivers & the flag man:

 

The long-term result was as follows:-

 

 

A racing car driver whose career ended with a sickening crash five years ago Wednesday was awarded 90 million yen compensation after the Tokyo District Court ruled race organizers were to blame for his crippling accident.

 

Tetsuya Ota fell well short of getting the 300 million he had been asking from the five organizers and the marshal of the 1998 race where he suffered severe burns that ruined his driving career, but received the vindication he had been looking for.

 

"The crash was caused when the flag car suddenly slowed down," Presiding Judge Tsuyoshi Ono said. "Firefighting and rescue preparations were also not up to scratch."

 

Ota was delighted with the court win. "I would like to thank everybody who has supported me along the way," the 43-year-old once referred to as Japan's best Ferrari handler said in the wake of the ruling.

 

Those ordered to pay Ota include Fuji Speedway in Shizuoka Prefecture, where the horrifying crash occurred, and TV Tokyo, which broadcast the race.

 

None of the defendants have stated whether they will appeal against the ruling, including TV Tokyo, which spent the entirety of the court battle arguing that it could not be regarded as one of the race organizers.

 

Court records said Ota's terrifying crash occurred during a warm-up lap before the official start of the race in May 1998. Ota's car burst into flames after slamming into another vehicle that had already stopped because of a different accident.

 

Ota was stuck in the fireball for almost 90 seconds before rescuers finally dragged him out. He sustained burns across his body and is still unable to move his right arm, right shoulder and fingers properly.

 

Judges ruled the flag car should have been traveling at about 60 kilometers per hour instead of the 150 kilometers it was doing, and caused the accident by slowing too quickly. Ota was forced to unexpectedly drop his pace and, as a result, he lost control and smash into the stationary vehicle.

 

They also decided that Ota was left in his flaming vehicle for too long and organizers had neglected their responsibility to get him out of the burning car within 30 seconds of the blaze erupting.

 

A pre-race agreement between Ota and the organizers not to pursue legal action in the event of an accident was also dismissed as unacceptable.

 

"A letter that tries to eliminate one party from taking any responsibility for major accidents caused by gross negligence is incorrect, unfair and not void in this court," presiding judge Ono said.

 

TV Tokyo's attempt to avoid being regarded as one of the race organizers was dismissed by the court, which ruled it was involved in sufficient decisions made about the race to be viewed as one of the organizations directly concerned with running it.

 

Ota made his debut in 1982, racing in the Formula 3000 series before switching to GT car races in which he competed in four straight Le Mans 24-hour races. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, Oct. 29, 2003)

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Much appreciated Octi, I'm always wary of comments and even links on You Tube since some prove themselves to be complete bollocks supporting hoaxed footage. I'm not suggesting anyone went to the trouble of hoaxing that crash but sometimes, especially with footy clips you get the footage and a plausible explanation only to find the two are not linked, especially where minor, non-league or foreign games are involved.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

More respect please, MPFC, for Mr. Frere, and John Fitch, who also tests cars, and is also 89.

 

From what I've read, Fitch is a top bloke. Well known for his inventions to increase motoring safety - probably inspired by being Pierre Levegh's co-driver at Le Mans 1955, and being a fighter/bomber pilot in WW2. If I remember the quote "I was involved in a few fatal events, and this is payback."

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Okay lads, my ageist ranting stands corrected. These legends - I accept - may be old but they're not in the way.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Okay lads, my ageist ranting stands corrected. These legends - I accept - may be old but they're not in the way.

At least they like to get on with it, rather unusual in that age bracket.

 

regards,

Hein

[Buzz Lightyear 0]

Good shout on the parachute deaths of late, T, but haven't most of those been people who've decided to end it all and purposely failed to pull their rip cords? Seems a perverse way to go. On the way down your life wouldn't so much flash before your eyes as play back in real time before you hit terra firma.

 

Given Bush Sr.'s age, status as an ex-Pres. (don't forget Saddam tried to bump him off soon after he left office) and ongoing participation in a dangerous activity, seems he merits discussion for '05. And how about wife Barbara? She looked like she was about 75 when she first came to prominence in 1980, which would make her 99 in perceived years today.

 

Not all failed to pull their rip cords. I'm sure most of you will probably remember the bloke who plummeted to his death about a year or two ago. The investigation was initially treat as a murder. Quite bizzare considering that the police had actually found a pair of scissors with fibres from the ripcord on them in the boot of the car the bloke had hired a few days previously.

[maryportfuncity 10,687]

Aye Buzz, but it's nowhere near that simple. The two obvious suspects were the two who jumped with him, one of whom had messed with the laddo's chute before but claimed he was trying to draw attention to the folly of leaving it packed but so easily accessible in a room used by everyone at the club.

 

On the other hand the laddo himself, not as successful or popular as his parents made out, could've done it but there was no hard evidence he was suicidal.

 

Or had enemies willing to kill him.

 

Only one thing is certain, he plunged to his death, horribly.

 

This one'll run and run unless someone comes forward and tells all. The police investigation hit a brick wall around the time Channel Four screened an hour of documentary on the case.