Formula 1 & Other Motor Racing

[The Pooka 26]

Aye Buzz, but it's nowhere near that simple. The two obvious suspects were the two who jumped with him, one of whom had messed with the laddo's chute before but claimed he was trying to draw attention to the folly of leaving it packed but so easily accessible in a room used by everyone at the club.

 

On the other hand the laddo himself, not as successful or popular as his parents made out, could've done it but there was no hard evidence he was suicidal.

 

Or had enemies willing to kill him.

 

Only one thing is certain, he plunged to his death, horribly.

 

This one'll run and run unless someone comes forward and tells all. The police investigation hit a brick wall around the time Channel Four screened an hour of documentary on the case.

Thought that they'd found fibres showing the guy had cut the cords himself.

[jmh8300 2]

Aye Buzz, but it's nowhere near that simple. The two obvious suspects were the two who jumped with him, one of whom had messed with the laddo's chute before but claimed he was trying to draw attention to the folly of leaving it packed but so easily accessible in a room used by everyone at the club.

 

On the other hand the laddo himself, not as successful or popular as his parents made out, could've done it but there was no hard evidence he was suicidal.

 

Or had enemies willing to kill him.

 

Only one thing is certain, he plunged to his death, horribly.

 

This one'll run and run unless someone comes forward and tells all. The police investigation hit a brick wall around the time Channel Four screened an hour of documentary on the case.

Thought that they'd found fibres showing the guy had cut the cords himself.

 

Suicide according to the Boys in Blue and the FSS - so it must be true.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Suicide seems the most obvious, but you'll never convince his mother. Then again, there was a time when the Birmingham Six were obvious murderers and anyone suggesting otherwise was misguided.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Oscar Gonzalez, Grand Prix racing driver who was presumed to have died in 1999, even by his own country's motorsport federation, actually died earlier this week. Link

 

And they thought Mike Thackwell and Stephen South dropped off the face of the earth when they packed it in....

 

Hmm...whatever did happen to Renzo Zorzi, though? All I've read is that he went off to test tyres for Pirelli, then nothing. There's been something approaching a flurry of interest in him recently. They discovered a new angle of the Pryce accident, available on YouTube if you dare and people wondered what he was up to (mainly having much trouble disconnecting his helmet's air tube, by the look of things). Got a mention in the Tremayne 'Lost Generation' book as well, beyond the obvious one. He won the F3 Monaco race after Tony Brise got into some 'car humping' difficulty with Alex Dias Ribero...

[Octopus of Odstock 2,194]

Hmm...whatever did happen to Renzo Zorzi, though?

 

Zorzi, without resorting to another direct shameless plug link to my the "Where Are They Now?" site is now running a Pirelli driving school in Southern Italy.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Do Zorzi's students face a test of a pedestrian fiddling with headgear distracting them as they take a corner and sprint down a straight?

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Do Zorzi's students face a test of a pedestrian fiddling with headgear distracting them as they take a corner and sprint down a straight?

 

If so, it explains what others have told me about driving on Italian roads.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Tom Pryce footage on You Tube. Not the usual ghoulish clip but mainly race footage. Having said that the opening shot is a head on view of the end of Renzo Zorzi's race including a fleeting moment when the back of his car is engulfed in flames. This - at least - puts his hysterics at the start of the clip from behind his car in context. Remember, this is at the end of an era when a few drivers met their F1 end engulfed in flames. There's also a fleeting moment when something resembling a pile of offal flies past in the front of the shot!

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Tom Pryce footage on You Tube. Not the usual ghoulish clip but mainly race footage. Having said that the opening shot is a head on view of the end of Ricardo Zorzi's race including a fleeting moment when the back of his car is engulfed in flames. This - at least - puts his hysterics at the start of the clip from behind his car in context. Remember, this is at the end of an era when a few drivers met their F1 end engulfed in flames. There's also a fleeting moment when something resembling a pile of offal flies past in the front of the shot!

 

I believe I mentioned this clip on post 271 above. At the end of the clip, you can also see Tom Pryce's blood-soaked body being stretchered away. I was surprised to find this footage even existed, as South Africa only started its TV service in 1975. It certainly adds some context to the other, more famous, clip of the accident. Though many people have been bemused at the reactions of Renzo Zorzi and Bill (the marshal seen with the non-Pryce killing extinguisher) to what was Jansen van Vuuren flailing past right in front of them.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Tom Pryce footage on You Tube. Not the usual ghoulish clip but mainly race footage. Having said that the opening shot is a head on view of the end of Ricardo Zorzi's race including a fleeting moment when the back of his car is engulfed in flames. This - at least - puts his hysterics at the start of the clip from behind his car in context. Remember, this is at the end of an era when a few drivers met their F1 end engulfed in flames. There's also a fleeting moment when something resembling a pile of offal flies past in the front of the shot!

 

I believe I mentioned this clip on post 271 above. At the end of the clip, you can also see Tom Pryce's blood-soaked body being stretchered away. I was surprised to find this footage even existed, as South Africa only started its TV service in 1975. It certainly adds some context to the other, more famous, clip of the accident. Though many people have been bemused at the reactions of Renzo Zorzi and Bill (the marshal seen with the non-Pryce killing extinguisher) to what was Jansen van Vuuren flailing past right in front of them.

 

I also scanned the pages detailing this accident from the recent 'The Lost Generation - The Brilliant But Tragic Lives Of Rising British F1 Stars Roger Williamson, Tony Brise And Tom Pryce' book, if anyone's interested in seeing them.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Aye, I'd be interested. I'm also intrigued by the bemused reaction of the two of them looking at the offal that was - seconds before - a 19 year old track marshall. I'm guessing 'shock and awe' might be an apt description, so much so that their emotions struggle to surface.

 

Incidentally, if OoO is patrolling these parts; who are the two survivors from the first grand prix?

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Aye, I'd be interested. I'm also intrigued by the bemused reaction of the two of them looking at the offal that was - seconds before - a 19 year old track marshall. I'm guessing 'shock and awe' might be an apt description, so much so that their emotions struggle to surface.

 

Check your PM inbox.

 

Incidentally, if OoO is patrolling these parts; who are the two survivors from the first grand prix?

 

Oh, that's easy. Emmanuel de Graffenreid and Tony Rolt. Aged 92 and 86 respectively, IIRC.

[Canadian Paul 97]

Aye, I'd be interested. I'm also intrigued by the bemused reaction of the two of them looking at the offal that was - seconds before - a 19 year old track marshall. I'm guessing 'shock and awe' might be an apt description, so much so that their emotions struggle to surface.

 

Check your PM inbox.

 

Incidentally, if OoO is patrolling these parts; who are the two survivors from the first grand prix?

 

Oh, that's easy. Emmanuel de Graffenreid and Tony Rolt. Aged 92 and 86 respectively, IIRC.

 

Not that I trust Wikipedia, but it claims that Rolt is actually 88, if that makes a difference to anyone.

 

Though really, I'd trust M. Lawrenson's knowledge of the facts over the above.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Rolt only raced in 1953 and 55, the first world championship grand prix was in 1950. I took OoO to mean that two of the men who raced then are still breathing.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Rolt only raced in 1953 and 55, the first world championship grand prix was in 1950. I took OoO to mean that two of the men who raced then are still breathing.

 

I really should buy one of those reference books that contain all the F1 race results than rely on the internet. I checked Wikipedia's page on the 1950 British GP and only one of the drivers listed as taking part is still alive (de Graffenreid, obviously), but on it's 'classification' section, it gives Tony Rolt as being in the race. This is explained by saying that Peter Walker started the race, then he pitted after 3 laps and Rolt took over his car. Rolt retired after the gearbox packed up 2 laps later.

 

GrandPrix.com also has Rolt listed in the classification, but then that page looks knackered to me. IIRC, GrandPrix.com also lists Patrick Depailler as taking part in races after he was killed at Hockenheim in 1980, which at least shows the German healthcare system is better than ours.

[Typhoid Harry 23]

I still miss Jimmy Clark, but I'm old.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,194]

Rolt only raced in 1953 and 55, the first world championship grand prix was in 1950. I took OoO to mean that two of the men who raced then are still breathing.

 

 

Right, to solve all arguments.

 

Rolt was born in 1918, he is currently 88, I've seen the birth certificate & know the man, and he's on my DDP list for 2006 (but not for 2007, as it happens).

 

Secondly, he was the relief driver for Peter Walker. The good Baron Toulo is the ONLY starter left, but Rolt raced in that 1st race - thus there are TWO survivors from that 1st race.

 

Please check www.forix.com (although again, I'm biased, I freelance for them as well) and please do not rely on Wikipedia for any motor racing classification.

 

and if you won't accept that (Rolt in 1950) from me, then god knows who you WILL accept it from...

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Please check www.forix.com (although again, I'm biased, I freelance for them as well) and please do not rely on Wikipedia for any motor racing classification.

 

I subscribed to forix.com for 2 years, but unfortunately F1 statistics sites are somewhat low on my financial priority list at the moment, my income being £59 a week and everything. Wikipedia's F1 entries should be treated with caution, yes, except for the article on Dave Walker, of course...

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Rolt only raced in 1953 and 55, the first world championship grand prix was in 1950. I took OoO to mean that two of the men who raced then are still breathing.

 

 

Right, to solve all arguments.

 

Rolt was born in 1918, he is currently 88, I've seen the birth certificate & know the man, and he's on my DDP list for 2006 (but not for 2007, as it happens).

 

Secondly, he was the relief driver for Peter Walker. The good Baron Toulo is the ONLY starter left, but Rolt raced in that 1st race - thus there are TWO survivors from that 1st race.

 

Please check www.forix.com (although again, I'm biased, I freelance for them as well) and please do not rely on Wikipedia for any motor racing classification.

 

and if you won't accept that (Rolt in 1950) from me, then god knows who you WILL accept it from...

 

 

Chill OoO; I never doubted yers for a minute.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,194]

1950 British GP:

Cla Nº Driver Car / Engine Laps Time Delay/Retirement

1 2 Nino Farina Alfa Romeo 70 2:13'23.6

2 3 Luigi Fagioli Alfa Romeo 70 2:13'26.2 2.6

3 4 Reg Parnell Alfa Romeo 70 2:14'15.6 52.0

4 14 Y.G.-Cabantous Talbot-Lago/Talbot 68 2:13'25.0 2 Laps

5 15 Louis Rosier Talbot-Lago/Talbot 68 2:14'28.4 2 Laps

6 12 Bob Gerard ERA 67 2:13'26.4 3 Laps

7 11 Cuth Harrison ERA 67 2:13'26.8 3 Laps

8 16 P.Etancelin Talbot-Lago/Talbot 65 2:14'30.6 5 Laps

9 6 David Hampshire Maserati 64 2:14'03.6 6 Laps

10 10 Joe Fry/B.Shawe-Taylor Maserati 64 2:15'00.4 6 Laps

11 18 Johnny Claes Talbot-Lago/Talbot 64 2:15'28.6 6 Laps

 

(2) 1 J.M.Fangio Alfa Romeo 62 - Oil leak

(13) 23 Joe Kelly Alta 57 - Not classified

(7) 21 Prince Bira Maserati 49 - Out of fuel

(12) 5 David Murray Maserati 44 - Engine

(16) 24 Geoff Crossley Alta 43 - Not classified

(7) 20 T.de Graffenried Maserati 36 - Engine

(14) 19 Louis Chiron Maserati 24 - Clutch

(6) 17 Eugène Martin Talbot-Lago/Talbot 8 - Oil pressure

9 Peter Walker/Tony Rolt ERA 5 - Gearbox

(21) 8 Leslie Johnson ERA 2 - Compressor

[One shot Paddy 1,206]

Sad news indeed, was he not the bloke Mike Hailwood pulled from a burning F1 car in the early 70s?

 

Yes, at the South African GP at Kyalami in 1973. Hailwood got the George Medal, Regga got a few burns on his hands.

 

Sadly, both ended up dying in road accidents. Hailwood's car collided with a truck too, while he was driving with his kids to get a takeaway.

 

In Mike's case the truck was doing an ilegal U-turn in fog.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,194]

What about this Sebastian Vettel then? A flash in the pan, or Germany's next world champion? What does the panel think?

 

Good, but on the basis of his performance as 3rd driver & tester this year, Adrian Sutil is a better prospect, IMO.

 

He was due to perhaps get a chance next year with Midland, but now they've been taken over by a Dutch company, Spyker, I'm not sure what'll happen.

 

Stuil was today confirmed as a race driver at Spyker. Watch him go next year - him & Kubica, future champions, you mark my words.

 

Hamilton & Kovalainen I'm yet to be 100% convinced by, but we shall see....

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Secondly, Alessandro Nannini, mentioned here before, is returning to racing!

 

I know the GPM cockpit is wider than other single seaters (for obvious reasons), but will Sandro fit inside it? I hope he's planning some major exercise over the next few months. I can see the sales of cakes and Chianti plummeting in his restaurant too.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

From the linked article above:

 

"It's all a manifestation of a series that is now moving into an established position after all the normal start-up fire-fighting and cavalry charges, and we are now ready to really begin to exploit the potential of the Grand Prix Masters concept."

 

Am I being cynical or does this translate as; 'we know we were sh*t now we promise - at the very least - to be mediocre.'

 

Apart from the newies are the main old names - Fittipaldi, Mansell, Cheever and Arnoux - still going to test their skills in 2007?

[Octopus of Odstock 2,194]

Yes, MPFC, as far as I understand, and as long as commitments allow.