Why Are We Here?

[The Pooka 26]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm apparently here to bake 100 cookies at 11:00pm for one of my son's charitable Boy Scout projects.

 

I really, really, really hope that IF there's an afterlife it doesn't involve flour in any way.

..... though I believe in many ways the conditions are ideal for baking.

 

http://www.martinity.com/images/colors/throne.jpg

[Slave to the Grave 26]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm apparently here to bake 100 cookies at 11:00pm for one of my son's charitable Boy Scout projects.

 

I really, really, really hope that IF there's an afterlife it doesn't involve flour in any way.

 

If previous discussions on the subject are anything to go by, I think you might be a little bit disappointed.

 

 

p.s I couldn't get my tombstone to work either MPFC. It said 'hanged in error' or words to that effect.

[BrunoBrimley 86]

Oi, I got a tombstone that told me death meant I wasn't hardcore and every time I tried to post it here it wouldn't take.

 

Somedays life is - like - sh*t.

I sayy Mryport let me give it at yr fior you...,

 

 

 

There we go but you have gicen up being harddpcore.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Cheers Bruno, incidentally, as a deep admirer of your work I'm concerned at the return to wall to wall typos. Can your liver, and the rest of your constitution withstand this?

 

We care about yer Bruno, you are loved.

[BrunoBrimley 86]

Cheers Bruno, incidentally, as a deep admirer of your work I'm concerned at the return to wall to wall typos. Can your liver, and the rest of your constitution withstand this?

 

We care about yer Bruno, you are loved.

I dont have a constirtution Maryport......mmm....port! Where didin I leave that bottle of port wine whtich Iwas originally savimg for my dinnerr with Andre?

 

Not to worryu though Marypot....mmmm a joint would sensible right now.....

 

 

 

Did you questionn an ask ofme Maryport?

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

[Josco 49]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

No.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

I thought your genes were uniquely you? Wouldn't they survive with a new head? It would still be your sperm, not the head's sperm.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

I thought your genes were uniquely you? Wouldn't they survive with a new head? It would still be your sperm, not the head's sperm.

You are the sum of your memories and experiences, all else is mere biology.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

Another way of looking at a head transplant is that it's a body-minus-head transplant.

 

Supposing the brain is the organ that contains memory and personality, the body will feel very different.

 

Of course, we might ask the same question in cases of routine organ transplants. I've read stories that some organ recipients do indeed get confused. It's outside my experience, so those stories may well be bollocks.

 

regards,

Hein

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

I thought your genes were uniquely you? Wouldn't they survive with a new head? It would still be your sperm, not the head's sperm.

You are the sum of your memories and experiences, all else is mere biology.

I'm not sure about this. Are the memories and experiences what some have described as "consciousness"? If they have been accumulated and stored in the brain they must exist. Now if the brain dies with the rest of the body what happens to the memories and experiences? Do they get blown away? Do they dissipate in the atmosphere? If you're standing by someone as they expire is it possible you could breath in some of their departing consciousness that might get lodged in your brain?

 

And if you do have a head transplant and you're not feeling yourself one day, due to aches and pains, are they not your aches and pains that will be experienced by your new head and brain?

[The Pooka 26]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

I thought your genes were uniquely you? Wouldn't they survive with a new head? It would still be your sperm, not the head's sperm.

You are the sum of your memories and experiences, all else is mere biology.

I'm not sure about this. Are the memories and experiences what some have described as "consciousness"? If they have been accumulated and stored in the brain they must exist. Now if the brain dies with the rest of the body what happens to the memories and experiences? Do they get blown away? Do they dissipate in the atmosphere? If you're standing by someone as they expire is it possible you could breath in some of their departing consciousness that might get lodged in your brain?

 

no more than you'd breathe in someone else's pulse and react accordingly.

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

If it's your old brain inside the new head then yes, it would still be you.

 

Everything that is uniquely you is contained inside the brain, the body is just a handy way of transporting it.

I thought your genes were uniquely you? Wouldn't they survive with a new head? It would still be your sperm, not the head's sperm.

You are the sum of your memories and experiences, all else is mere biology.

I'm not sure about this. Are the memories and experiences what some have described as "consciousness"? If they have been accumulated and stored in the brain they must exist. Now if the brain dies with the rest of the body what happens to the memories and experiences? Do they get blown away? Do they dissipate in the atmosphere? If you're standing by someone as they expire is it possible you could breath in some of their departing consciousness that might get lodged in your brain?

 

no more than you'd breathe in someone else's pulse and react accordingly.

Pook have you gone mad? How can you breathe in a pulse? Surely a pulse is a physical sensation transmitted through the nociceptors in your nerve-endings. But thoughts and memories are something else, something seemingly intangible. And yet they are transmitted. Richard Dawkins suggested memes.

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

Another way of looking at a head transplant is that it's a body-minus-head transplant.

 

Supposing the brain is the organ that contains memory and personality, the body will feel very different.

 

Of course, we might ask the same question in cases of routine organ transplants. I've read stories that some organ recipients do indeed get confused. It's outside my experience, so those stories may well be bollocks.

 

regards,

Hein

It seems to me Hein that this is quite different. If you're in a car crash and your body is wrecked your head might well need a new body so that would be a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Your head would be calling the shots.

 

If, on the other hand, your head was no longer functioning but your body was fine, I assume someone else would be calling the shots, a relative or spouse, say. The temptation I guess would be to have private head and body brokers who attempted to match headless bodies with bodyless heads. But who would get ownership?

 

Suppose I, as a wealthy individual (hypothetically) in sound mind and body, had written down instructions that in the event of losing my head my body should retain my title, possessions and family with its new head. I don't think the new head would have a leg to stand on, particularly if, hitherto, it had been penniless. If the head was to retain its previous identity that would be a travesty. What is a penniless head against a wealthy body that has protected its rights?

[CarolAnn 926]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

Another way of looking at a head transplant is that it's a body-minus-head transplant.

 

Supposing the brain is the organ that contains memory and personality, the body will feel very different.

 

*snip*

It seems to me Hein that this is quite different. If you're in a car crash and your body is wrecked your head might well need a new body so that would be a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Your head would be calling the shots.

 

*snip*

 

This is what causes religion. I deal with these questions by being an atheist and by being firm in the knowledge that head transplants won't be perfected in my lifetime. I leave these questions to my descendants.

[The Pooka 26]

Now if the brain dies with the rest of the body what happens to the memories and experiences? Do they get blown away? Do they dissipate in the atmosphere? If you're standing by someone as they expire is it possible you could breath in some of their departing consciousness that might get lodged in your brain?

 

[/quote = Pooka]

no more than you'd breathe in someone else's pulse and react accordingly.

[/quote = Godot]

Pook have you gone mad? How can you breathe in a pulse? Surely a pulse is a physical sensation transmitted through the nociceptors in your nerve-endings. But thoughts and memories are something else, something seemingly intangible. And yet they are transmitted. Richard Dawkins suggested memes.

I agree. Breathing in a pulse is nonsense. A pulse is just a transmitted vibration along a blood vessel that is felt as it passes over a bone or similar. But it is no more mad a thought than the suggestion that you can breathe in the 'departing consciousness' of the dying (and, I suspect, that you doubted that possibility anyway).

 

Consciousness, memories and thoughts are features of neuroanatomy and neurobiology that will be readily destroyed as the brain is crushed, ignited, smashed or rotted.

 

PS I've pulled a few chicks with last sentence.

[Godot 149]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

Another way of looking at a head transplant is that it's a body-minus-head transplant.

 

Supposing the brain is the organ that contains memory and personality, the body will feel very different.

 

*snip*

It seems to me Hein that this is quite different. If you're in a car crash and your body is wrecked your head might well need a new body so that would be a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Your head would be calling the shots.

 

*snip*

 

This is what causes religion. I deal with these questions by being an atheist and by being firm in the knowledge that head transplants won't be perfected in my lifetime. I leave these questions to my descendants.

Yes of course CA but this is "just supposing" and this is the Why Are We Here thread after all. I think Dawkins' concept of the selfish gene is worth considering. If his argument that our bodies, our whole existence in fact, is as a vehicle for replicating our genes, it calls in to question the role of the head. If the head (or the brain inside it) is a thought machine, what happens to the thoughts when it is switched off? A computer's memory stays where it is until it is reactivated.

[The Pooka 26]

I've been doing a bit of thinking. If we had head transplants (I know we don't yet but one day we might) and you needed a new head, would it still be you if you got one?

Another way of looking at a head transplant is that it's a body-minus-head transplant.

 

Supposing the brain is the organ that contains memory and personality, the body will feel very different.

 

*snip*

It seems to me Hein that this is quite different. If you're in a car crash and your body is wrecked your head might well need a new body so that would be a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Your head would be calling the shots.

 

*snip*

 

This is what causes religion. I deal with these questions by being an atheist and by being firm in the knowledge that head transplants won't be perfected in my lifetime. I leave these questions to my descendants.

Yes of course CA but this is "just supposing" and this is the Why Are We Here thread after all. I think Dawkins' concept of the selfish gene is worth considering. If his argument that our bodies, our whole existence in fact, is as a vehicle for replicating our genes, it calls in to question the role of the head. If the head (or the brain inside it) is a thought machine, what happens to the thoughts when it is switched off? A computer's memory stays where it is until it is reactivated.

Unless its in RAM. Thoughts are NOT memories.

 

The reactivation of a brain (eg after trauma and coma) is frequently characterised by inefficient memory. The thoughts that were present at the time of the insult / injury are, I suspect, lost.

[Godot 149]

But it is no more mad a thought than the suggestion that you can breathe in the 'departing consciousness' of the dying (and, I suspect, that you doubted that possibility anyway).

 

 

Consciousness, memories and thoughts are features of neuroanatomy and neurobiology that will be readily destroyed as the brain is crushed, ignited, smashed or rotted.

 

PS I've pulled a few chicks with last sentence.

I am committing it to memory as I write.

 

I know it seems mad but something must happen because many times I have found myself thinking exactly the same things as my wife at exactly the same time - things that are remote from the moment.

[Godot 149]

The reactivation of a brain (eg after trauma and coma) is frequently characterised by inefficient memory. The thoughts that were present at the time of the insult / injury are, I suspect, lost.

 

 

Lost where? Are they floating around? It takes a lot of energy to create thoughts and we know from physics that energy isn't lost but it can be converted to something else. Maybe that something is memes.

[deadsox 894]

The bottom line is that the brain is who we are. All else is just parts. Now if you'd like to discuss the soul, that's a different ballgame altogether and one with a lot less data to go on.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

The reactivation of a brain (eg after trauma and coma) is frequently characterised by inefficient memory. The thoughts that were present at the time of the insult / injury are, I suspect, lost.

Lost where? Are they floating around? It takes a lot of energy to create thoughts and we know from physics that energy isn't lost but it can be converted to something else. Maybe that something is memes.

I suppose it's similar to what happens to programme data when you overwrite their storage: they dissipate in entropy.

 

[N]othing could be less strange in entropy no change, no change, no change.

(From Peter Hammill's Stranger Still)

 

regards,

Hein

[Godot 149]

The bottom line is that the brain is who we are. All else is just parts.

 

Would you say that about Mike Tyson or a Munchkin? There is much more to a person than a brain.

[honez 79]

The reactivation of a brain (eg after trauma and coma) is frequently characterised by inefficient memory. The thoughts that were present at the time of the insult / injury are, I suspect, lost.

Lost where? Are they floating around? It takes a lot of energy to create thoughts and we know from physics that energy isn't lost but it can be converted to something else. Maybe that something is memes.

Converting these thoughts into something else, memes for example, would require additional energy to effect this transition from one ordered state to another. Something that's not exactly forthcoming whilst the brain is undergoing a great deal of entropy, by being crushed, ignited, smashed or rotted.

 

To follow on from your computer analogy, when the power gets pulled, whatever was in volitile memory is cactus. Switching it back on isn't going to bring it back no matter what--especially if the RAM is crushed, ignited or smashed in the meantime.

At the precise time you switch off the power to this volitile memory, if you do manage to suck up any free-range electrons with an olfactory device, connected to some more RAM, it isn't exactly going to achieve a hell of a lot IMHO. Sorry.