Humanity Itself

[DevonDeathTrip 2,360]

In these troubled times of global warming, diminishing fuel reserves, religious unrest, rogue nuclear states etc etc, I was wondering how fellow Deathlisters feel about the future. Most of us aren't that ancient, do you think we stand a chance of dying peacefully in our beds, or will we live to see a time when mankind will "reap the whirlwind" for our destructive habits? Will Earth ever see a nuclear winter? Could an invented disease mutate and kill us all? Might overpopulation and starvation lead inexorably towards worldwide anarchy and murder?

 

Even if we overcome or prevent man made problems, aren't we overdue a supervolcano which could block out the sun for years?

 

I do wonder more and more if we are not at "five minutes to midnight" and, in fact, there are only a few seconds to go. Or am I worrying too much?

 

Discuss.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

Is there any point in worrying?

Rogue States, Terrorism, Disease, Famine, all nothing new.

Global warming, for me, is overplayed, man has survived the elements and natural disasters for thousands of years, and will continue to do so.

I think the biggest danger to us all is the Lawless society.

That actually scares me more than anything else.

Reading DDTs post cast my mind back to my primary school days where one day, during a lesson, a friend told me all about Mother Shipton and the world ending in 1981.

Well, I never did sleep that easily until January 1st 1982.

All that worry for sod all.

[Godot 149]

Well Mono's link to this item on CERN has got me wondering whether we're all going to sink in to a black hole of our making.

 

in 2003, Dr Adrian Kent, a theoretical physicist at the University of Cambridge, wrote a paper in which he argued that scientists had not adequately calculated the risks of a "killer strangelet" catastrophe scenario.

 

He also expressed concern that a fundamental question (how improbable does a cataclysm have to be to warrant proceeding with an experiment?) had never been seriously inspected.

 

All that civilization flushed away in the twinkle of an eye as the solar system disappears up its own arse. It might be worth it to get rid of the Big Brother house and I'm a Celebrity get me Out of Here.

 

In fact, if they could create a controlled black hole that could work like a real life Room 101 in to which you could drop Mugabe and all the other crap in this world I'd pay to see that in action. It would make great telly.

 

CERN - bring it on.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,360]

Rogue States, Terrorism, Disease, Famine, all nothing new. Global warming, for me, is overplayed, man has survived the elements and natural disasters for thousands of years, and will continue to do so.

 

But the threat now is so much worse now. The world's population has rocketed and food production has not kept pace and will never catch up. Famine will become more widespread. I don't think global warming has been overplayed, if anything it is happening quicker than anyone ever predicted. In time, hotter areas will turn to desert and the sea will cover low lying nations. The populations of Sub-Saharan Africa, of Bangladesh, of Pacific atolls will have to migrate or die. The trickle of refugees will become a flood. Where will they go? Ever growing numbers of people on ever smaller, less productive, patches of land. Our quality of life is bound to deteriorate as a result. It's just a question of how long it will take before we really start to suffer, in our lifetimes I would wager.

 

Well Mono's link to this item on CERN has got me wondering whether we're all going to sink in to a black hole of our making.

 

And then there's the threat of nanotechnology, solar flares, Judgement Day etc.

 

We're doomed, I'm telling you.

[Banshees Scream 110]

I like the topic, Devon. But I think the books are getting to your head.

 

I've heard the theories and the conclusion I've drawn is global warming is a little exaggerated. I mean "Where is the global warming?' I think we need to be more conservative with our resources but the whole mindset is "Be aware" not "live in fear". There are many deficits in this world but let's get real "When were there never deficits in this world?"

 

My favorite "end times possibility" is how a gigantic meteor or something will hit the earth and end humanity. As you watch it, you sort of buy into it until the they say "Well, there is about a 1 in .. ehh 995" chance of that happening. Or whatever it was. They always make sure that they save that line for the end. After that I usually change the channel. Seinfeld is better.

[maryportfuncity 10,662]

Top thread, way to go DDT!!!

 

A recepticle for the grimmest of predictictions and most dire speculations of science. George Harrison intended to call his final album released as 'Brainwashed' 'Your Planet is Doomed Volume 1.' It was the volume 1 bit that cracked me up, as if anyone would want to know about volume 2 once our fate was sealed.

 

I think we have to take an asteroid strike seriously. It did for the dinosaurs, and it did (probably) for any sense of political gravitas as far as Lembit Opik is concerned.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

Im quite happy to concede that the threat of Terrorism is much greater to all of us than before.

The methods have moved on a bit havent they, suicide bombers, the attempted aquisition of nuclear material to make dirty bombs etc.

A very umpleasant change of tactics.

Im still not convinced as to Global warming.

I will admit that the human race is not doing much in the way of reducing the threat, however, what do you do with a world population going through the roof?

Why is the earth now cooling? Its calculated that this slow cooling could go on for 10 years. Why?

Scientists dont know...

Are you aware that the Sphinx exhibits all the classic signs of water errosion? The very desert it resides in was once a luscious green landscape. Why is it now desert?

The threats and dangers of today are no different to before. The Cuban missile crisis, WW1 and WW2 have all been lived through and, at the time were perceived to be the End of us all.

Food? One minute we are told of the huge Euro food mountains, farmers paid to produce with no market to buy, now food is short...sorry thats B******s!

I am a great believer in cycles, the earth is going through one that it has been through umpteen times over in its lifetime.

The difference is that we are now able to analyse what is going on instead of blaming angry Gods and the like.

Knowledge is a great thing but it is a double edged sword. We know have the capacity to understand what is going on around us, we realize that we could all be wiped out in an instant should a meteor hit us ( not that we would be told it was coming).

All of the above is a bloody good reason not to worry.

Whats the point? Do we stop having children? Stop going to work? Go out and get pissed everyday? Do whatever we like?

As much as id love to stop working, get pissed at will and do what I like, its a tad impractical.

More important than anything else, I have to convince my beautiful daughter that the world isnt so bad and it is worth carrying on.

We all have to.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,360]

You're fiddling while Rome burns. We will only agree on global warming when it is much too late to do anything about it, we might have passed that stage already. There's a lot of handwringing and angst on a global basis about the threats that face us, but rarely does all this paffing about result in any positive action. I believe that this generation, just like previous generations, enjoy the comforts of life too make any significant sacrifices to protect future generations and thus humanity is ultimately doomed to suffer (apart from Clive Dunn, who will probably survive the apocalypse unscathed).

 

I might start a poll about this.

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

Anyone else see the 'Dispatches' doc last night on rising food prices. As well as environmental factors (floods, droughts etc.) a lot of the blame was laid at the door of commodities speculators artificially bumping up the price of basic foodstuffs in order to increase profits, and of course bio-fuel planting wiping out much of the potential grain capacity.

 

Very disturbing.

[maryportfuncity 10,662]

The BBC did a Brief History of the End of Everything. Web site is still there but all I got on my listen again was silence for the first few seconds. Is that a sign?

[Lard Bazaar 3,800]

I don't think anything massive will happen in our lifetimes that would wipe us all out, and I don't give an arse what happens after I'm dead. That is my highly knowledgeable and in-depth opinion.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,360]

Maybe the rapidly declining world bee population will prove to be our nemesis.

 

According to Albert Einstein, our very existence is inextricably linked to bees - he is reputed to have said: "If the bee disappears off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years of life left"

[Dave to the Grave 11]

According to Albert Einstein, our very existence is inextricably linked to bees - he is reputed to have said: "If the bee disappears off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years of life left"

He was however, well known for 'making it up, as he went along'. It has since been proven that it is spiders, not bees.

[Monoclinic 39]

According to Albert Einstein, our very existence is inextricably linked to bees - he is reputed to have said: "If the bee disappears off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years of life left"

He was however, well known for 'making it up, as he went along'. It has since been proven that it is spiders, not bees.

 

I'd seriously consider just having four years left of planet Earth as we know it, if it meant no spiders. When can we send in the exterminators?

 

Great thread DDT - I think we may be on the verge of proving Clive Dunn is a cockroach.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

Atj, I mentioned, on a similar vein on another thread, just why the cost of crude has gone through the roof. Speculators.

DDT, Who is right? Those that believe in Global Warming or those that dont? So far the loudest shouters have been from the believers. Have you looked into the studies of those that conclude that Global Warming isnt, infact Global Warming?

Just why is the Earth now cooling? Where are the answers.

The Polar Icecaps are melting. When the Ice has gone it will leave a land mass possibly greater than the land that will be swallowed up by the rising sea levels. In other words, the Polar regions will revert back to a normal, habitable landmass, like it was tens of thousands of years ago. Possibly, in tens of thousands of years into the future it would revert back to Ice.

Why did we have an Ice age? Why was the land beneath our feet a tropical paradise long, long ago?

A good proportion of Norfolk is in danger of being taken by the Sea, Global warming they all say.

Was global warming responsible for the freak storms that, over hundreds of years took large chunks of the ancient Town of Dunwich into the sea?

It would seem that costal errosion has been going on long before the industrial revolution.

Sorry, I just dont buy into it all.

Ive read both sides of the argument, and Im going with the ones who have been shouted down.

My call.

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

LFN, In my opinion it isn't just speculators raising commodity prices, rather a combination of their actions and environmental problems, but they are exacerbating the situation for their own ends.

[Terminator 13]

Atj, I mentioned, on a similar vein on another thread, just why the cost of crude has gone through the roof. Speculators.

DDT, Who is right? Those that believe in Global Warming or those that dont? So far the loudest shouters have been from the believers. Have you looked into the studies of those that conclude that Global Warming isnt, infact Global Warming?

Just why is the Earth now cooling? Where are the answers.

The Polar Icecaps are melting. When the Ice has gone it will leave a land mass possibly greater than the land that will be swallowed up by the rising sea levels. In other words, the Polar regions will revert back to a normal, habitable landmass, like it was tens of thousands of years ago. Possibly, in tens of thousands of years into the future it would revert back to Ice.

Why did we have an Ice age? Why was the land beneath our feet a tropical paradise long, long ago?

A good proportion of Norfolk is in danger of being taken by the Sea, Global warming they all say.

Was global warming responsible for the freak storms that, over hundreds of years took large chunks of the ancient Town of Dunwich into the sea?

It would seem that costal errosion has been going on long before the industrial revolution.

Sorry, I just dont buy into it all.

Ive read both sides of the argument, and Im going with the ones who have been shouted down.

My call.

Also, aren't we on the cusp of a global "reverse polarity". I'm not sure how much is really known about the events and consequences (but am probably wrong). Who's to know that global warming isn't simply the planet's preparation to reverse poles?

 

Just throwing this minnow into the ring (apologies for the mixed metaphor).......

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

Atj, I mentioned, on a similar vein on another thread, just why the cost of crude has gone through the roof. Speculators.

DDT, Who is right? Those that believe in Global Warming or those that dont? So far the loudest shouters have been from the believers. Have you looked into the studies of those that conclude that Global Warming isnt, infact Global Warming?

Just why is the Earth now cooling? Where are the answers.

The Polar Icecaps are melting. When the Ice has gone it will leave a land mass possibly greater than the land that will be swallowed up by the rising sea levels. In other words, the Polar regions will revert back to a normal, habitable landmass, like it was tens of thousands of years ago. Possibly, in tens of thousands of years into the future it would revert back to Ice.

Why did we have an Ice age? Why was the land beneath our feet a tropical paradise long, long ago?

A good proportion of Norfolk is in danger of being taken by the Sea, Global warming they all say.

Was global warming responsible for the freak storms that, over hundreds of years took large chunks of the ancient Town of Dunwich into the sea?

It would seem that costal errosion has been going on long before the industrial revolution.

Sorry, I just dont buy into it all.

Ive read both sides of the argument, and Im going with the ones who have been shouted down.

My call.

Also, aren't we on the cusp of a global "reverse polarity". I'm not sure how much is really known about the events and consequences (but am probably wrong). Who's to know that global warming isn't simply the planet's preparation to reverse poles?

 

Just throwing this minnow into the ring (apologies for the mixed metaphor).......

Yes that theory has been doing the rounds for a few years.

Basically, If i remember rightly, every umpitee thousand years, the magnetic poles do a swap.

Generally, it damn near pulls Planet Earth to pieces in the process.

Afterwards, all goes quiet and serene.

Atj, I agree. If you have those bastards upping the prices on the back of crop failures and high demand from new markets (EG: China) then things will get pretty shitty.

Overall, Lardy might well have put it all to bed with reasoned, measured, logical argument

[Monoclinic 39]

As long as we are running out of a convenient energy source, the longer I have a job. (and yes DDT, the word Nano is involved!). If the polar ice caps do melt away revealing land masses (well antartica anyway) then I bet they'll be straight in there with the pipelines. F*ck any treaties.

 

Whilst I'm at it, I'm on the side of global warming, as in it is happening and it is a problem. As to why there is evidence of events similar to those attributed to global warming that have occured prior to the industrial revolution could I suggest solar variations over the centuries or perhaps undocumented volcanic eruptions, like Krakatoa. (This might be entire speculative crap on my part, but I can't be arsed to google it) Or maybe, in fact, the aborigines were very technologically advanced and pumped lots of CO2, NOx and SOx into the atmosphere for centuries. They just conveniently fell into a "dark age" on sight of HMS Endeavour and buried all the evidence under Uluru. (This of course is true, I'm off to write the wikipedia page as we speak, or read)

[Windsor 2,233]

The world's problems will all be solved soon enough. Unfortunately millions will have to starve to death before that time comes. Isn't it just the way things go?

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

According to Mr Malthus, yes. I fear that the agricultural revolution may just have staved off the inevitable malthusian drop, and in fact made it worse when it comes.

 

The world's problems will all be solved soon enough. Unfortunately millions will have to starve to death before that time comes. Isn't it just the way things go?

[Banshees Scream 110]

The greatest threat to humanity is ourselves. Listen to me, I'm right. It's as simple as it sounds.

 

I don't know how to solve that problem. How can you solve that problem when life kills us and death is what we want to avoid. Human beings need to rearrange their whole philosophy of living.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,360]

This thread is coming along nicely. Well done everyone.

 

What strikes me is how easily people are prepared to accept outlandish theories about how the dangers of global warming, population explosion etc have been exaggerated. The problem with this is that these theories often exist on the very fringe of scientific reason and are not accepted among the scientific community as a whole. Do people seize on these theories because they really do believe in them, or simply because they are more palatable than the far more pessimistic accepted wisdom?

 

We all know about issues that might or might not appear in the future, but I am not convinced that humankind can do much to halt these problems on a global scale. I have every confidence that Monoclinic is doing a grand job in seeking an alternative fuel source, but governments are hardly falling over themselves to fund this type of research. I wonder at the bare faced cheek of Western governments who express concern about India and China's industrial expansion, as if we have been doing nothing of the sort for the last century. And then we get upset with nations who fail to arrest the destruction of their rainforests, yet conveniently forget that we have already all but destroyed the forests of Europe and North America

 

As stated in the opening post, I am particularly interested in timescales, i.e will we feel the affects of these problems in our lifetime? The Arctic sea could be ice free in summer within only 10 years, glaciers in the Himalayas, which feed the Ganges, Yellow and Yangtze rivers are projected to melt within 35 years. Food shortages will become critical by 2050. I am sure that people won't just sit down and starve quietly, they will fight and kill to get food. Who will survive and what sort of people will prosper? I might still be around then and it worries me. Look at how badly the elderly are treated in the UK already, what fate awaits those who will be old in a few decades time?

[Godot 149]

Look at how badly the elderly are treated in the UK already, what fate awaits those who will be old in a few decades time?

Yes, selfishly this bit bothers me, as one of the "life is good" boomers, I wonder who will look after us in our dotage. We could yet end up as Soylent Green.

 

Bad things have happened in the past. What about the Black Death that wiped out a third of Europe in the 14th century? What about the Flu pandemic of 1918/19 that killed 20m mostly fit able bodied young men?

 

I think the chances of a superbug or new flu pandemic must be high. But some things seem to go away or simply stop worrying us. Aids is ravaging Africa but no longer the gay communities of rich countries it seems. Y2K simply never happened did it? What a fraud that was. And mad cow disease remains rare when we were warned it could run rampant.

 

On the whole I'm an optimist. I'm sure something will come up, some new power source exploiting clean energy such as the wind or sun. But we can't afford to sit back and wait for it.

 

Neither can we Lardy afford to sit back and say "it's not going to affect me so why should I bother." Every generation has a duty to make the world a better place for the next one. If we can't strive for that what else are we here for?

 

In the meantime I could quite happily go without a car or computer (but not gravy) and probably will do so in time (Godot's grand plan is to live in a bothy, raise mussels on strands of rope and skim flat stones in Scotland). Growing bio fuels is immoral. It doesn't work.

 

I'm not going to worry about asteroids but it's fair to assume that global warming is happening. Yes, I agree, we might be wrong about that but trying to reduce carbon output is a good thing, surely. We're not harming the world by assuming global warming is a reality. But suppose the forecasters are right and we do nothing? That seems a bit dumb to me.

 

As it is the world has changed beyond recognition in my lifetime. It's lost its mystery and now it's losing its habitat and diversity at an alarming rate. The wild places are disappearing and that's sad.

 

One thing my generation needs to do is to start listening to the younger folks and the younger folks need to find a voice. We've had it too good for too long and we haven't cared enough or done enough. Where's our legacy? Iraq? Afghanistan? Oh yes, we got to the moon and what did we do when we got there? Played golf.

[deadsox 894]

I generally have a positive view on things since I have been tremendously blessed. I have fun every day and advise everyone else to do the same since, as this forum ultimately proves, none of us are getting out of here alive. Get out and enjoy all the wonderful and fascinating things the world has to offer. Love someone and spread some good karma because that is the only way we can really influence things. As for my dotage, if I've been as good a father and grandfather as I should have, I shouldn't have to worry about that. I have no fears (but then again, I have a shotgun).