Humanity Itself

[Monoclinic 39]

Mono - guess this is much of the problem - I'm an engineer - I sort of understand systems fairly well - but that's too deep into theory for me. (By the way found Le Chatalie was spelt Le Chatelie) Never that good at chemistry - but I watched the Al Gore film and got well exercised by the pools of melt water boring down into the ice sheet and removing the frictional effect of it staying land bound.

Cork out of the bottle and all that.

Really don't see that it takes much to set the process going. At a constant 10m slippage a year, the 800km "trip" of the South Pole Ice Station towards the sea would take 80,000 years. I think it's speed would be exponential towards the end until it's very wet.

 

Just looked it up and it is Le Chatelier (Henry Louis). Mea culpa, I'm just always mindful about an additional e when there is a chat involved. In french things are m or f except as far as the cat is concerned in my book as it's too risky. Even if you know someone's cat to be female, it's always best to ask about the "chat" rather than the "chatte". Unless you really want to know how their cunt is.

 

I too have wondered why the only salt we can have for the roads has to come from Cheshire. Seems like they have an exclusivity deal. A similar discussion about salt supplies arose here recently too aswell as marooned drivers. Ill preparation is the expertise of the bureaucrat.

[Monoclinic 39]

All I can say is that the evolution of mankind cannot be set into motion without cooperation, it can only come to life with force.

Without cooperation, force is essential. The human perception is that force itself deprives freedom.

If there were an incentive, some kind of bribe that could motivate humanity to cooperate that would be a step forward.

Unfortunately, I agree with Mr.G. We are our worst enemy. Can we rise above expectations? Hm, I don't know about that.

Assuming that we are in deep shit, which is probably .. very .. a little exaggerated,

I'll say that we need something revolutionary to take place in order for us to be different.

What exactly? I don't know, you tell me.

For a moment - close your eyes and picture planet earth in your mind.

View intelligent life on planet earth as a project.

Tell yourself about the most intelligent species of that planet.

Know they are brainwashed, know they cannot control themselves nor their desires.

Understand they are insensitive to life around them.

Understand they have no regard for themselves.

Understand some of them are incapable of going to the next level.

Understand how many years it will take to change them.

Open your eyes and know that it's beyond you.

 

 

Wow, I never knew dolphins were that self centered.

[Godot 148]

I heard a chap talking about biofuels last year and the one that seemed most promising in the long run as far as I could see was algae fuel although he was talking before announcements on helioculture that also sounds promising.

 

If countries go ahead with iron fertilisation of the sea, I could see how that might help by depositing carbon-rich sediments, but wouldn't the resulting blooms take oxygen from the sea, thereby harming sea life? That said, krill and whales are big feeders on phytoplankton so maybe their populations might rise.

 

One thing that worries me is whether some of these bio-engineering initiatives might bugger about with photosynthesis . This wiki article on helioculture says: "Joule Biotechnologies has not revealed the name of the organism that it uses, although it has acknowledged that the company has modified the organism."

 

I've been fascinated by the way the Azolla event in the Eocene created an oxygen rich atmosphere. Some have suggested that Azolla could combat global warming but any such intervention would need to be controlled in order to prevent too much CO2 being used up. Too little CO2 in the atmosphere would be curtains for us. It would be a supreme irony if attempts to control carbon dioxide in the atmosphere led to there being too little to support photosynthesis.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,132]

Do you know what really pisses me off? The sheer, unadulterated arrogance of the Scientific community who have sold certain sections of the Political movement the absolute horseshit argument that we can change the Earths climate.

Planet Earth, over 4 billion years old ( some have said its much older) has seen Climate change so utterly catastrophic it would make the Haiti Earthquake seem like a bit of a kerfuffle.

 

I believe we can. We know enough about the evolution of our planet to know that it has evolved from a reducing atmosphere to one that is oxygen rich and able to support aerobic life. Perhaps biomimetics is the answer, can we try to repeat history? Increase photosynthesis and not only do we reduce CO2 but we can harvest solar energy and obtain biofuels or try to exploit the secondary effect, the splitting of water (hydrogen storage is one of the major problems of switching to hydrogen fuel cells). Can we recreate nature's blueprint artifically or do we have to dedicate more surface area to plants and algae, reversing man's trend to deforest great swathes of countryside. I find it's pretty arrogant of us to criticise the likes of Brazil and Indonesia for doing something the Europeans did long ago.

 

A multi trillion pound Worldwide industry in "Green" services and technology has sprouted up over the last 10 years and, despite plenty of evidence countering the belief that the Human race is the sole archeitect of its doom, we continue to be royally fucked up the arse with punitive taxation and legislation on the pretext that we can "Save the planet".

 

This is something to address by way of statistics, which neither of us can do with Google alone. I do not know how many scientists are for and how many are against, perhaps you are more aware of this. I would hazard a bet that although there may be plenty of evidence to counter the belief as you state, there could be an equal or perhaps a more substantially larger body of evidence that anthropological effects have altered the balance more than in previous climate change episodes.

 

A classic piece of shite is the idea that we will all be driving hydrogen/Electric cars in years to come.

Why?

Isnt the green ethos about saving energy per se? Why have roads festooned with cars that require electricity to run, which still has a cost to the environment however its generated, when you could have Electric buses, carrying up to 50 odd passengers per vehicle thus eliminating the need for 20 odd cars to be manufactured and run.

Is that not a "greener" solution?

 

A hydrogen fuel cell based car produces just water as a byproduct (incidently this is also a greenhouse gas), no CO2, Nox, SOx or particulate matter but as we are all well aware it needs optimising. We need a stop gap as our reserves are finite. Biofuels (from algae as opposed to controversial crops) could well be that stop gap. As the fuels are combusted CO2 is released which can be reassimulated by living biomass to produce more biofuel. All the while buying more time for a better way to harvest solar energy to be developed. Electricity generated by wind, tides, solar panels etc. have minimal effect on the environment, and not everyone likes travelling on public transport. I cannot remember who it was but there is one DL member who made a massive rant about public transport (apart from Windsor). We have become accustomed to our own private door to door service, so if we are happy to pay the price for this I don't see how a government could remove this liberty from us.

 

If we are doomed, and I think we will be at some point in the future, it will be soley down to overpopulation.

One billion Chinese probably breathe out at least 3 billion litres of, diluted, carbon dioxide every couple of seconds.

Surely that is fucking up the Planet more than sporradically placed factories, cars, aircraft and the like.

I really dont understand why, IF, there is so much emphasis on Global warming being man made, no Government has had the gonads to legislate as to how many children people can have ( it may stop those parasitic baby machines in the process...)so that the stabilizing, if not the slow and gradual reduction of the worlds population will do more to "Save the Planet" than any other hair brained scheme doled out to the populace.

 

Ironically China did.

 

 

As somebody as intelligent as you obviously are, why cant you read?

I have never stated that Global warming was or was not a reality.

I have merely stated that there is a whole plethora of scientific opinion out there that believes that we, the human race is either not or only partially responsible for the changes that are taking place.

Why does your opinion carry more weight than those that have a different opinion to yourselves? Why are the Scientists who have ventured an opposing view so obviously wrong?

 

I think this is more a case of human condition, as in we believe what we want to and it is difficult to change someone's beliefs without concrete evidence. You'd be hard pressed to convert an athiest to a religion even though God(s) may exist. You want to believe that GW isn't a problem hence most of your posts in this thread bring up the fact some people say it isn't a problem and that you are swayed to their camp. I believe that it is a problem and thus have the instinct to fall on the otherside of the divide. Neither of us have concrete evidence. We publish papers about the knowledge we have acquired and yes people can be proved wrong. It's exactly as Hein said, we have to keep updating the model. Things can be proved wrong not right but in the mean time a debate has to have more than one side for progress. You have to keep asking why.

 

Yeah, it is right that we all try and do something, even if it ends up in vain.

How about rebuilding our sea defences? Building a network of canals around flood vunerable towns?

Despite all the doom and gloom fuck all has been done, nothing practical except for indroducing energy efficient light bulbs that are shit.

 

The sea defences would have to be pretty high if the predictions are to believed. As for domestic energy efficiency, there are far more things that have been introduced, better boilers, cavity insulation, hybrid cars, recycling (certain uk councils aren't as hot on that as some European counterparts I believe), campaigns to turn your heating down a few degrees, double glazing etc.

 

But enough of my unbelievable shite. Who the fuck do you think you are to assume the site is full of bollocks ?

You may not like my opinions but at least have the fucking respect to take them on board and, if you can be arsed to respond, do it with reason and not with distain.

 

I thought I had used the conditional tense as much as possible in my post, ladened with words like I believe and IMHO. It was intended as a viewpoint piece. If it didn't come across that way then I am sorry for that but not for its content. I stand by my feeling however that science often gets derided, I also stand by my feeling that I think this site has lost a bit of "je ne sais quoi" and a bit of humour. That's my problem. It is after all a site to report celebrity deaths, something which isn't really in my list of interests. I guess at the moment it is doing exactly what it says on the tin and not a lot else.

Monkey, I was more angry with the way you were dismissive, if not rude, about what I have written.

Hey, you are the Scientist, im just an Engineer, you say CO2, I say nanofarads...lets call the whole thing off, or summat.

As ive said before, you are one of the most expressive and articulate of posters here and I enjoy reading what you have to say, whether I always agree with its content or not.

If you take another look at the Irate visitors thread, you will see that I actually concour with your take on the state of the forum, I too am not very much into death which is why this thread is the breath of fresh air in a forum of staleness.

There may never be a consensus as to what is right or wrong but I actually enjoy reading opinions and throwing my thru'penny-ha'penny into it, even if I do talk shite.

Just dont be too judgemental, eh?

Oh, I was aware of the China edict, I wasnt actually talking of using that particular social model, finding dead babies in the streets isnt really the way to go....

Oh, one more thing, it was me who did the Public transport rant!! No, I dont want to give up my car, the point I was aiming for was whether a Government was REALLY serious about reducing emissions it would consider stringent methods in curtailing our car usage.

I think, from now on, I shall shut the fuck up and be more of a reader.......

[Godot 148]

Various heartfelt exchanges etc....

 

Monkey, I was more angry with the way you were dismissive, if not rude, about what I have written.

Hey, you are the Scientist, im just an Engineer, you say CO2, I say nanofarads...lets call the whole thing off, or summat.

As ive said before, you are one of the most expressive and articulate of posters here and I enjoy reading what you have to say, whether I always agree with its content or not.

If you take another look at the Irate visitors thread, you will see that I actually concur with your take on the state of the forum, I too am not very much into death which is why this thread is the breath of fresh air in a forum of staleness.

There may never be a consensus as to what is right or wrong but I actually enjoy reading opinions and throwing my thru'penny-ha'penny into it, even if I do talk shite.

Just dont be too judgemental, eh?

Oh, I was aware of the China edict, I wasnt actually talking of using that particular social model, finding dead babies in the streets isnt really the way to go....

Oh, one more thing, it was me who did the Public transport rant!! No, I dont want to give up my car, the point I was aiming for was whether a Government was REALLY serious about reducing emissions it would consider stringent methods in curtailing our car usage.

I think, from now on, I shall shut the fuck up and be more of a reader.......

 

I haven't seen such a love-in since Dirty Den made it up with Angie in the Queen Vic (again) circa 1986.

[Lard Bazaar 3,687]

Been meaning to do my own sums on a few of these climate change ideas. (Still working on it)

I'll start with the rise of sea levels - there is only so much ice - lets say (looking at only three areas) all of it melts at the South Pole and on Greenland (most of the ice at the North Pole is floating and won't raise the sea level by much)

 

{The ice shelves which used to extend roughly 3,900 square miles (10,000 km²) over the Weddell Sea had completely disappeared by 2002.

Nearly all of Antarctica is covered by an ice sheet that is, on average, at least 1.6 kilometres thick. Antarctica contains 90% of the world's ice and more than 70% of its fresh water. If all the land-ice covering Antarctica were to melt — around 30 million cubic kilometres of ice — the seas would rise by over 60 metres. This is, however, very unlikely within the next few centuries.}(Wiki)

 

Height of South pole = 2,835m

Depth of Ice at South Pole = about 2,700m

 

Thickness of ice across the South polar cap = Average of about 1,600m (could be as high as 2,160m)

Average Altitude 2,000 > 3,000 m.

Area of South Polar ice cap = 13,586,380 km2

Volume of ice = 21,738,208 km3 ( maybe even 30.1 million km3)

 

The bedrock in the center of Greenland has been pressed below sea level by the weight of the ice sheet. Thus, if the ice melted, much of central Greenland would be under water.

Since the 1950s, scientists have postulated that the ice sheet covering the country may actually conceal three separate island land masses that have been bridged by glaciers over the last geologic cooling period.

(If the Greenland ice sheet were to melt away completely, the world's sea level would rise by more than 7 m (23 ft) and Greenland would most likely become an archipelago.)

 

Highest point in Greenland 3,694m.

Lowest point in theoretic mid basin -300m.

 

Thickness of ice on Greenland = Average of about 1,500m (but could be as much as 2,000m)

Area of Greenland = 2,175,600 km2 (Pear's Cylopaedia ed. year 2000)

Area of Greenland = 2,166,086 km2 (Wikipaedia)

Area of Greenland under receding ice cap = 1,833,720 km2 (Pear's Cylopaedia ed. year 2000)

Area of Greenland under receding ice cap = 1,755,637 km2 (Wikipaedia)

 

Volume of ice = (1,500 x 1.7m km2) = 2,633,455 km3

 

The polar ice pack is thinning, and in many years there will be seasonal hole in the ozone layer. Reduction of the area of Arctic sea ice reduces the planet's average albedo, possibly resulting in global warming in a positive feedback mechanism Research shows that the Arctic may become ice free for the first time in human history between 2013 and 2040.

 

Thickness of Sea Ice about the North pole = Average about 1.5m

Area of Northern Sea Ice = 14,056,000 km2

Volume of ice = 21,084 km3

 

Total volume of ice (these 3 areas) = 24,392,747 km3

 

Total sea area = 7 tenths of the surface of the earth (70.8%) 361,132,000 km2

(Average depth = 3.2 km)

 

ice being 92% as dense as water.

 

Rise in sea level = 62.141 metres.

 

even worse, if all figures are on the high side then in the next few hundred years it could be 83.5m

 

RA, I have absolutely no idea what any of this means, but it is just another of the reasons that I love you

[DevonDeathTrip 2,289]

The planet's population is going to hit 7 billion tonight - watch it happen (sort of) here.

[Magere Hein 1,397]

The planet's population is going to hit 7 billion tonight - watch it happen (sort of) here.

Oh, fuck.

 

regards,

Hein

[Banshees Scream 107]

The planet's population is going to hit 7 billion tonight - watch it happen (sort of) here.

Population control: the fight against nature. If you ask the pessimist he will tell you truth about this one. At least none of us will be affected by the overpopulated world of the future, because we'll be dead by then, so the 7 billion is just another number, Devon.

[Paul Bearer 5,670]

I reckon we passed the 7bn marker about 10.30 tonight UK time.

[honez 79]

I reckon we passed the 7bn marker about 10.30 tonight UK time.

Damn, missed it by 42,000 or so.

 

According to the site, we're gonna hit 8,000,000,000 on July 8 2019, unless the Four Horsemen make an appearance, of course.

[Toast 14,845]

I reckon we passed the 7bn marker about 10.30 tonight UK time.

 

Damn, missed it by 42,000 or so.

 

Bugger, have I missed a sweepstake?

[DevonDeathTrip 2,289]

Target your home town with nuclear weapons or earthbound asteroids.

[Lady Grendel 137]

Target your home town with nuclear weapons or earthbound asteroids.

 

Hmm, looks a bit dodgy to me DDT, I was led to believe that should Glasgow get nuked it would pretty much wipe out the whole city and surrounding area. From what I can see with this it will only hit as far west of the city centre as Hillhead (2 miles away and Glasgow Uni country) while the fallout will only go just beyond Partick to Whiteinch (a place that desperately needs nuking IMHO) but it won't spread eastwards? Pressure covers a 2 mile radius but falls just short of Celtic Park. Looks unlikely but maybe I am using the controls wrongly.

 

Edit: Meant to say that it falls short of Celtic Park but the fallout hits Ibrox Park home of Glasgow Rangers, I think a Tim or too may have been involved in the making of this .

[DevonDeathTrip 2,289]

Target your home town with nuclear weapons or earthbound asteroids.

 

Hmm, looks a bit dodgy to me DDT, I was led to believe that should Glasgow get nuked it would pretty much wipe out the whole city and surrounding area. From what I can see with this it will only hit as far west of the city centre as Hillhead (2 miles away and Glasgow Uni country) while the fallout will only go just beyond Partick to Whiteinch (a place that desperately needs nuking IMHO) but it won't spread eastwards? Pressure covers a 2 mile radius but falls just short of Celtic Park. Looks unlikely but maybe I am using the controls wrongly.

 

Edit: Meant to say that it falls short of Celtic Park but the fallout hits Ibrox Park home of Glasgow Rangers, I think a Tim or too may have been involved in the making of this .

 

Sounds like you need to upgrade your weapon selection LG. The conflagration caused by using a 50mt whopper would mean everything as far out as Anniesland would be instantly burnt to a crisp and, if the wind was blowing in that direction, the fallout would be causing up to 30% fatalities as far out as Livingstone within 24 hours. Even the citizens Edinburgh would be getting blisters and feeling a little nauseous. I fear such an irresponsible bombing might even cause the football to be postponed.

[DevonDeathTrip 2,289]

I didn't know where to post this, but NASA are to make an important announcement at a press conference tomorrow about a "finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life. "

[honez 79]

I didn't know where to post this, but NASA are to make an important announcement at a press conference tomorrow about a "finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life. "

My money's on pretty conclusive evidence of arsenic-based organic molecules on one the moons of Saturn. Thus proving organic nonterresrtrial life exists and doesn't necessarily take the form we'd expected previously.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as whatever it is, it's going to be interesting. Like I said though; moons of Saturn

[DevonDeathTrip 2,289]

I didn't know where to post this, but NASA are to make an important announcement at a press conference tomorrow about a "finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life. "

My money's on pretty conclusive evidence of arsenic-based organic molecules on one the moons of Saturn. Thus proving organic nonterresrtrial life exists and doesn't necessarily take the form we'd expected previously.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as whatever it is, it's going to be interesting. Like I said though; moons of Saturn

 

I suppose that would be exotic enough in it's own little way. Perhaps I should have reigned in my expectations a little more. I was hoping for something a a wee bit more exciting...

[thefunkyfaz 51]

I didn't know where to post this, but NASA are to make an important announcement at a press conference tomorrow about a "finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life. "

My money's on pretty conclusive evidence of arsenic-based organic molecules on one the moons of Saturn. Thus proving organic nonterresrtrial life exists and doesn't necessarily take the form we'd expected previously.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as whatever it is, it's going to be interesting. Like I said though; moons of Saturn

 

I suppose that would be exotic enough in it's own little way. Perhaps I should have reigned in my expectations a little more. I was hoping for something a a wee bit more exciting...

 

Did someone just sneeze on the screen?

[Monoclinic 39]

My money's on pretty conclusive evidence of arsenic-based organic molecules on one the moons of Saturn. Thus proving organic nonterresrtrial life exists and doesn't necessarily take the form we'd expected previously.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as whatever it is, it's going to be interesting. Like I said though; moons of Saturn

 

Ah so what you are saying is that ET has one thing in common with mankind...

 

[Rotten Ali 599]

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?...281474978947974

 

Report about the sudden death of 200 cows in Wisconsin, USA and 7,000 cows and buffaloes in Vietnam.

[Terminator 13]

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?...281474978947974

 

Report about the sudden death of 200 cows in Wisconsin, USA and 7,000 cows and buffaloes in Vietnam.

 

This video (5m10s) shows the timeline of mass creature deaths around the world...up to 16 January.

[harrymcnallysblueandwhitearmy 1,463]

Is the solar flare fucking up people's connections?

[Godot 148]

Is the solar flare fucking up people's connections?

I know what you mean. But I had note saying I could go to the pictures tonight.

[Guest Guest]

Armageddon comes one step closer on monday- foir the first time since 1979 2 iranian warships will try to sail through the Suez canal-and the Israelis aint going to l et it happen... http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/19/...E71I3QW20110219