The Chequered Flag

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

We've been very lucky recently. How the likes of Briscoe & Brack are still alive boggles the mind.

 

I figure that 2006 will be another year that the "old guard" continue to pass away. 2005 was a rotten year for motorsport, but not many old formula 1 drivers died (in compartive terms to other disciplines - ie 6 or 7 Indy 500 drivers died - I think it was 4 (Trintignant, Allison, Love & Iglesias) F1). With a number ill or just getting on a bit, I fear we may lose a fair few of the 1950's survivors this year.

 

I hate to say it, but if there were a fatal accident, I see it coming in the A1 GP series, as the standard from top to bottom is larger. If not, maybe the IRL, where the biggest crashes & most serious injuries (and indeed, with Tony Renna, the last death) have been. Shaaban in A1 GP was a very lucky man last year.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Octy; if we widen the scope a little we're certain to have a fatality in the Isle of Man TT motorbikes, I think there's small print on the tickets allowing all the spectators a full refund if all the riders are alive at the end of the week.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Yes, definitely, that and the Dakar rally. And we've already had one, an Aussie fellow on that.

 

But I do feel that if you were going to choose a racing driver for any death pool/list etc., that an older one is a more prudent bet. Back in the 1960's, you could say "he's too fast" "too reckless" "he'll go", perhaps. Now, it's like picking needles from haystacks & to be honest, I wouldn't really want to.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Is poster 'M.Lawrenson' still around (in disguise maybe?) I remember he was the DL authority on all things motor racing.

 

 

In his possible absence, I'd like to present both mine & my colleagues' humble efforts - mine is the drivers index.

http://www.oldracingcars.com/bydriver/watn.asp

 

 

Is there anything you'd like to know, ATJ?

[Anubis the Jackal 77]

I think that's fairly comprehensive, thank you OOO.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

The site cited above is awesome, it also suggests Emmanuel de Graffenried b 18 May 1914 Paris, France is alive and well.

 

Before my time, if we heard rumours of his health failing is he famous enough for our needs?

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

The site cited above is awesome, it also suggests Emmanuel de Graffenried b 18 May 1914 Paris, France is alive and well.

 

Before my time, if we heard rumours of his health failing is he famous enough for our needs?

 

Firstly, "Toulo" is still doing well health-wise, but he's getting a little more frail. Hardly surprising, I suppose.

 

He would be famous enough for DL & DDP's needs. He won the 1949 British GP & during the late 1940's, was one of the more successful drivers. He remained in the F1 paddock for years after that, and would get an obituary in at least the Times or Telegraph as Doug Nye often does specialist obits. I know Doug & I know he has a "list of obituaries" as such, which are on tap for usage when the required person dies.

de Graffenried is as famous as Trintignant was, on a global scale. Trintignant's death was well covered by the UK media generally.

 

Paul Pietsch, now 94, is a possible. However, despite his age, he is doing brilliantly & although he is the last really famous pre-war driver alive in motor racing circles, I'm not sure about his global fame.

 

The reason I chose Tony Rolt in my DDP is because he's a lot frailer than before, and he would definitely get an obituary in most papers & probably the BBC.

 

If you really want to take a risk, try John Paul Jr., a US sportscar & Indianapolis 500 driver who's got cancer, Doug Serrurier, now in his mid 80's & ill, a car builder who is famous enough in his field, as two alternative choices.

 

By the way, as an update the list M.Lawrenson posted on oldest drivers still alive, well, all of those on there are still alive as somewhat amazingly, taking age into account, no GP driver has died since last June.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

O Of O presents useful tips - note, some of these are famous for not just Grand Prix:

 

Paul Pietsch, b. 1911

Oldest living GP driver. In good health & active, despite age. Has 40-50% chance of obit as more of a survivor than a legend.

 

Emmanuel de Graffenried b.1914

Still healthy, but increasingly frail. Obit certain, partly due to winning the 1949 British GP.

 

Paul Frere b. 1917

Man is more active than me! In excellent health, well known racing journalist as well.

 

Robert Manzon b. 1917

Again, in good health, but again, getting a little more frail. Was one of the top immediate post-war drivers - may get an obit, but never won a GP & French, so... difficult to say

 

John Fitch b. 1917

Only started two GP's, but one of the best known of all the living elderly drivers. Would get obituaries in the States without a problem, the UK... possibly... Excellent health though.

 

Tony Rolt b. 1918

Discussed above. Frailer. Le Mans winner, war hero & 4-wheel drive developer. Definite obit.

 

Andre Guelfi b. 1919

Another man whose fame is greater than his GP career - just one racer. Likely to get an obit on the BBC as he was the man who was embroiled in the Elf Aquaitaine scandal & very well known in France. Also had a role in the IOC. In good health though.

 

Hans Klenk & Eric Thompson b. 1919

Both are in reasonable health. Klenk was a constructor/sportscar ace, Thompson had a few GP's & worked at Lloyd's & ran his bookshop. However both have only a slim chance of an obit.

 

Andre Simon b. 1920

Outside chance of an obit - 25% at best. Was famous in his day, but largely forgotten in motor racing circles, so globally, unlikely. "Okay" health last I heard.

 

Tony Crook b. 1920

Head of Bristol Cars. Definite Obit in broadsheets. Health... pretty good at the moment. Sharp as a tack anyway.

 

Tony Gaze DFC AOM b. 1920

Living Aussie legend. WW2 fighter ace whose motorsport involvement was a small part of his life, but even then he left a big mark, a man who helped Goodwood flourish as a motorsport venue. In excellent health, however, both mind & body.

 

Les Leston b.1920

Founded a hugely successful racewear business, which along with his motorsport career might be enough for an obit. Much frailer now, health is solid though.

 

Kenneth McAlpine OBE b.1920

Member of McAlpine construction family & Connaught racing. Obit assured, health is, again, solid.

 

Roy Salvadori b. 1922

One of Britain's best drivers in the 1950's. Obit certain, but again, Roy is quite healthy at the moment, lives in Monaco.

 

Leslie Marr Bt. b. 1922

More famous as an artist. Definite obit, of which racing would be a small mention. No known health scares, but a little more frail recently.

 

Jose Froilan Gonzalez b. 1922

Definite obit, first man to win a GP for Ferrari & one of the top 50's racers. Not in brilliant health, has had heart surgery & is overweight. Active though, despite this.

 

Carroll Shelby b. 1923

Has had heart trouble but since transplant in 1990, pretty good. Overweight, though. Likely to get an obit due to his fame in US & also sportscars.

 

Roberto Mieres b. 1924 & Maria Teresa de Fillippis b. 1926

Mieres is a well known sportsman who has a slim chance of a broadsheet obit, de Fillippis more so due to her being the first woman in F1. Both, however, are in absolutely superb health.

 

Sir Jack Brabham b.1926

Overweight, deaf but in excellent health - no known scares. Still active & as a ex-World Champion, definite obit everywhere

 

Phil Hill b. 1927

Like Brabham, obit assured. Last time I saw him, he was in excellent health.

 

John Rhodes b. 1927

Might well get an obit due to being a legend in club racing. This would be broadsheet only, kinda news in brief etc. Was in good health a few years back, but I haven't heard much of him last few years

 

Lloyd Ruby b. 1928

Now suffering from cancer & very poorly. Obit? Well, in US, yes. UK might have a mention somewhere, but I'd put it 35% chance only.

 

Hans Herrmann b. 1928

Obit possible due to relative fame in his day. But, despite overweight, another in fine health.

 

Sir Stirling Moss b.1929

Perhaps the most famous living driver, obit certain. Has had prostate cancer, but recovered. A little frailer than before as a result, but I don't see him going just yet, too active.

 

Guy Ligier b.1930

Although a rugby international & F1 ace, his road cars assure him an obit. Health is good, but his legendary temper plus being overweight make him a heart-attack waiting to happen sometimes!!

 

Because of the relative good health of most of the above, they're not on my DDP list - but some are. There are some excellent suggestions for the DL there & for the DDP, as some, if I don't choose them, will probably be unique picks - the sporting world is under-represented...

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Octy an awesome performance and one that takes us neatly back to my opening point here. If they survived their racing in those dangerous days many of them stood to live long and healthy lives. Given the number of friends they lost they probably appreciate(d) every single day.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Actor Frankie Muniz, famous for Malcolm & The Middle & My Dog Skip has quit acting & has started a career as a racing driver. He'll be in Formula BMW this year, CART Toyota Atlantic next year (that's the plan anyway) in the hope that he'll drive in CART.

 

 

Following Jack Wild's death carrying on the curse of child stars & fast cars with no karting background, if you really want a long shot, well.........

[Canadian Paul 97]

Actor Frankie Muniz, famous for Malcolm & The Middle & My Dog Skip has quit acting & has started a career as a racing driver. He'll be in Formula BMW this year, CART Toyota Atlantic next year (that's the plan anyway) in the hope that he'll drive in CART.

 

 

Following Jack Wild's death carrying on the curse of child stars & fast cars with no karting background, if you really want a long shot, well.........

 

Evidentely, I'm not the only one who is gleaming with hope at this news, as per this article I found while looking for your news.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Yuje Ide; 2nd driver in the woefully underpowered and unprepared Super Aguri team makes his first F1 start next week assuming he can manage enough speed and control of an ancient chassis to qualify. He's one of the most inept and inexperienced drivers to see F1 action in recent years and his car is probably slow enough to get caught in a shunt or two.

 

Just thought I'd, like, bring it to your attention.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Have you based that on a broadsheet guide to the new season?

 

Nope it's based more on the fact that in 10 years he's risen more slowly than other drivers, he's never handled F1 power in this kind of company before and he's driving a four year old car. Japanese bit isn't here or there. A rookie in a milk float is the issue. If the leaders are going to collide with a backmarker statistically speaking it's likely to be him because he's the first one they'll catch.

 

Having looked at the dismal roll-call of F1 driver deaths enough times, I can confirm that a rookie driver is more likely (statistically speaking) to be killed racing than a regular or a veteran. Ide's racing CV looks alarmingly like that of Roland Ratzenberger (the driver who was killed during the 1994 San Marino GP the day before Ayrton Senna). This is, of course, assuming he can actually qualify the shed-on-wheels that is the Super Aguri within 107% of the pole position time (otherwise they won't let him on the grid come race day). And yes, I am still here

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

I see Massa, in a quick car more of a danger meself.

 

Anyway, Josh Rehm, Grand-Am racer, killed in car accident.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Just an outside bet but.....Murray Walker is back to commentating again and he's 82. I know it's probably what he lives for but he always had that high octane approach to the work that must've pushed his heart into the zone. He was once described as commentating like a man who's pants were on fire. You never know....

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

German rally co-driver killed

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

And a 'dusty death' outdoors in Spain.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

The first race of the IRL season hasn't even happened yet & already two drivers are Hospitalised.

Dana broke his back last year - this was his return race.....

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

And he's critical. One to watch if he ever so much as looks at a racing car again.

[Paul Bearer 6,101]

And he's critical. One to watch if he ever so much as looks at a racing car again.

 

Dead now

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

We've been very lucky recently.

I hate to say it, but if there were a fatal accident, I see it coming in the A1 GP series. If not, maybe the IRL, where the biggest crashes & most serious injuries (and indeed, with Tony Renna, the last death) have been.

 

A great shame. What a terrible start to the US open-wheel racing season. One dead, one recovering in hospital.

Dana, like I said, was back in a cockpit for the first time (competively) since he broke his back in the Indianapolis 500 last year.

He also worked as a mechanic & journalist & is certainly the biggest name fatality since Renna. Could even lead to the death of the IRL but they've overcome this thing before after all. One hopes it is the only one, but who can tell - I mentioned luck before & maybe it's going to run out.....

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

For the time being, there is coverage on ESPN's sport page of the accident. When you see the accident it was just sheer bad luck & it's also amazing how Carpenter is still alive. Dana didn't stand a chance & it does open an argument regarding the safety of oval racing...

 

Dana Crash

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

NASCAR & truck driver Bobby Hamilton has neck cancer. Link - small mention half-way down.

However, as it hasn't spread, I think he might be alright. If not, he'll certainly get a US obit, but UK? It's pushing it - but one for people to ponder anyway.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Octi; not much sign of the crash footage on yer link although I did find my way to a lively little site where someone compared Dana's driving to Sonny Bono's skill on skis.

 

Assuming an interested and serious minded person wished to view the footage, purely for intellectual and research purposes, any idea where it might be in cyberspace?

 

 

MPFC, I did say it was for a short time only. Try this link http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/vids/dana1.wmv

 

It's actually better from a assessment point of view as you see not only a slo-mo (where Dana hits the wreckage first) but also from Scott Sharp's car behind. It's possible Dana, had he not hit the wreckage MIGHT have gone wide & missed Carpenter, but I guess we'll never know.

FYI, Carpenter crashes first, Dana 2nd.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Class footage Octi, many thanks. I agree, it looks like Dana's route outta there is scuppered by hitting the wreckage ahead of the spinning car. Hell of a testament to the way they've improved car safety though, so much carnage, so few flames.