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Thanks for the update OoO. I'd say those stats suggest the DL has been pretty well selected over the years. As recently as 1999 46 of the people nominated would be dead within 8 years.

 

For what it's worth, "any one Beatle" has turned out to be right, they're not that old, so taking them off the 1987 still alives would seem to be ok.

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Thanks for the update OoO. I'd say those stats suggest the DL has been pretty well selected over the years. As recently as 1999 46 of the people nominated would be dead within 8 years. 35 of the 2003 are gone now. Etc.

 

For what it's worth, "any one Beatle" has turned out to be right, they're not that old, so taking them off the 1987 still alives would seem to be ok.

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Also, I have composed a DL-related list of my own. This covers every person who died that was on the DL at least once, not nessecarily on the list at the time of their death. An asterisk means the person WAS a scoring death. I may update it later on to include the years the people were included in, and feel free to point out mistakes.

 

Before 1987

April 23, 1975 - William Hartnell

January 18, 1985 - Wilfrid Brambell

 

1987

June 3 - Andrés Segovia*

 

1988

none

 

1989

January 23 - Salvador Dali*

January 27 - Arthur Marshall (was first included when already dead)

April 12 - Sugar Ray Robinson*

June 4 - Ayatollah Khomeini

July 11 - Laurence Olivier

October 6 - Bette Davis

December 1 - Ray Moore*

 

1990

January 8 - Terry Thomas*

April 15 - Greta Garbo*

May 18 - Jill Ireland*

November 14 - Malcolm Muggeridge

 

1991

December 14 - John Arlott

 

1992

March 23 - Jim Joel*

April 1 - Sir Michael Havers*

May 6 - Marlene Deitrich*

June 19 - Kitty Godfree*

October 19 - Magnus Pyke

November 7 - Alexander Dubček

December 10 - Dan Maskell*

 

1993

January 6 - Rudolph Nureyev*

January 20 - Audrey Hepburn*

February 6 - Arthur Ashe*

June 10 - Les Dawson*

August 16 - Stewart Granger

November 21 - Bill Bixby*

November 28 - Kenneth Connor

December 6 - Don Ameche

 

1994

January 5 - Brian Johnston*

January 22 - Telly Savalas*

February 19 - Derek Jarman*

March 9 - Charles Bukowski

March 15 - Jack Hargreaves

April 1 - John Curry*

April 22 - Richard Nixon*

May 12 - John Smith

May 29 - Erich Honecker*

July 8 - Kim Il Sung*

August 11 - Peter Cushing

September 2 - Roy Castle*

October 20 - Burt Lancaster*

November 16 - Doris Speed

 

1995

January 22 - Rose Kennedy*

February 2 - Fred Perry

April 4 - Kenny Everett*

April 25 - Ginger Rogers*

April 27 - Peter Wright

May 12 - Lord Arnold Goodman

May 24 - Harold Wilson

June 3 - Dilys Powell*

July 22 - Harold Larwood*

August 9 - Jerry Garcia

October 9 - Alec Douglas-Home*

October 18 - Red Rum

November 4 - Marti Caine

November 4 - Paul Eddington*

November 12 - Jackie Mann*

December 11 - Arthur Mullard

December 25 - Dean Martin*

 

1996

January 8 - François Mitterrand*

February 14 - Bob Paisley

March 6 - Simon Cadell*

March 9 - George Burns*

May 3 - Tim Gullikson*

May 20 - Jon Pertwee

May 31 - Timothy Leary*

June 7 - Glyn Worsnip*

June 23 - Andreas Papandreou*

October 13 - Beryl Reid

 

1997

February 19 - Deng Xiaoping*

April 23 - Denis Compton

June 25 - Jacques Cousteau*

July 2 - Jimmy Stewart*

August 2 - William S. Burroughs*

September 4 - Jeffrey Bernard*

September 5 - Mother Teresa*

September 7 - Mobutu Sese Seko*

September 9 - Burgess Meredith*

November 25 - Hastings Banda*

December 1 - Stéphane Grappelli

December - George Chisholm

 

1998

January 1 - Helen Wills Moody*

January 2 - Frank Muir

April 15 - Pol Pot*

April 23 - James Earl Ray*

May 14 - Frank Sinatra*

June 11 - Catherine Cookson*

July 6 - Roy Rogers*

October 17 - Joan Hickson*

December 13 - Lord Lew Grade*

 

1999

February 7 - Hussein of Jordan*

March 5 - Lord Denning*

March 8 - Joe DiMaggio*

March 12 - Yehudi Menuhin

March 21 - Ernie Wise*

April 28 - Alf Ramsey*

May 6 - Johnny Morris

May 13 - Gene Sarazen*

June 6 - Anne Haddy

July 1 - Willie Whitelaw

August 4 - Victor Mature*

August 9 - Helen Rollason*

October 7 - Deryck Guyler*

November 21 - Quentin Crisp*

December 19 - Robert Dougall

??? - Stan Flashman

 

2000

January 22 - E. W. Swanton*

January 26 - Don Budge*

February 12 - Charles Schultz*

February 23 - Stanley Matthews*

March 27 - Ian Dury*

April 14 - Wilf Mannion

May 7 - Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.*

May 21 - Barbara Cartland*

May 21 - John Gielgud*

July 1 - Walter Matthau*

August 5 - Alec Guinness

August 26 - Bunny Austin*

September 9 - Julian Critchley

September 30 - Fred Pontin

December 23 - Victor Borge

 

2001

February 19 - Stanley Kramer*

February 25 - Donald Bradman*

March 2 - John Diamond*

March 8 - Dame Ninette de Valois*

March 22 - William Hanna*

April 5 - Brother Theodore*

April 11 - Harry Secombe*

May 12 - Perry Como

June 3 - Anthony Quinn

June 21 - John Lee Hooker

June 28 - Joan Sims

June 30 - Joe Fagan

August 3 - Frank Pakenham, 7th Earl of Longford*

c. August 10 - Geoffrey Dickens

October 12 - Lord Hailsham*

November 23 - Mary Whitehouse*

 

2002

January 12 - Stanley Unwin

February 9 - Princess Margaret

February 22 - Chuck Jones*

February 27 - Spike Milligan*

March 27 - Milton Berle*

March 27 - Dudley Moore*

March 27 - Billy Wilder*

March 30 - Elizabeth the Queen Mother*

April 18 - Thor Heyerdahl

May 3 - Barbara Castle

May 12 - Joseph Bonanno*

May 23 - Sam Snead*

August 31 - Lionel Hampton*

September 3 - W. Clement Stone*

December 18 - Bert Millichip

December 30 - Mary Wesley

 

2003

March 5 - Hardy Amies*

March 10 - Barry Sheene*

March 15 - Thora Hird*

April 17 - Paul Getty

June 8 - Leighton Rees

June 12 - Gregory Peck*

June 26 - Denis Thatcher*

June 26 - Strom Thurmond*

June 29 - Katharine Hepburn*

July 6 - Buddy Ebsen

July 12 - Benny Carter

July 27 - Bob Hope*

August 16 - Idi Amin*

September 7 - Warren Zevon*

September 8 - Leni Riefenstahl*

September 9 - Edward Teller*

September 12 - Johnny Cash*

September 28 - Elia Kazan*

 

2004

March 20 - Queen Juliana*

March 28 - Peter Ustinov*

March 30 - Alistair Cooke*

April 24 - Estée Lauder*

May 20 - Lord Len Murray

June 5 - Ronald Reagan*

July 1 - Marlon Brando

August 3 - Henri Cartier-Bresson*

August 7 - Red Adair*

August 8 - Fay Wray*

September 20 - Brian Clough

October 5 - Rodney Dangerfield*

October 29 - Princess Alice*

November 11 - Yasser Arafat

December 8 - Lord Scarman*

December 30 - Artie Shaw*

 

2005

January 23 - Johnny Carson

February 2 - Max Schmeling*

February 10 - Arthur Miller

February 13 - Sister Lúcia*

February 20 - Hunter S. Thompson

March 26 - Lord James Callaghan*

April 2 - Pope John Paul II*

April 6 - Prince Rainier

April 23 - John Mills*

July 11 - Gretchen Franklin*

July 17 - Edward Heath*

July 20 - James Doohan*

August 1 - Fahd of Saudi Arabia

September 3 - William Rehnquist*

September 20 - Simon Wiesenthal*

October 3 - Ronnie Barker

October 24 - Rosa Parks*

December 10 - Richard Pryor*

 

2006

January 6 - Lou Rawls*

February 3 - Al Lewis*

March 9 - John Profumo*

March 28 - Caspar Weinberger*

April 13 - Muriel Spark

April 29 - John Kenneth Galbraith

May 14 - Stanley Kunitz*

June 13 - Charles Haughey*

June 23 - Aaron Spelling*

September 10 - Taufa'ahau Tupou IV

September 26 - Byron Nelson*

October 28 - Red Auerbach

October 31 - P.W. Botha*

November 10 - Jack Palance

November 16 - Milton Friedman*

December 10 - Augusto Pinochet*

December 18 - Joseph Barbera*

December 26 - Gerald Ford*

December 30 - Saddam Hussein

 

2007

February 6 - Frankie Laine

March 6 - Ernest Gallo*

April 23 - Boris Yeltsin

June 14 - Kurt Waldheim*

June 18 - Bernard Manning

July 5 - George Melly*

July 9 - Charles Lane*

July 11 - Lady Bird Johnson*

July 20 - Tammy Faye Messner*

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And I know the thread's about DL survivors, but I still thought it was a suitable mention. If not, an admin could just move my list to a different thread, I guess.

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Some people have Waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on their hands. Why do you come in as a guest? Why not join?

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Some people have Waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on their hands. Why do you come in as a guest? Why not join?

 

I'll probably join. But yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands.

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No, it's interesting stuff in a way, as the DL clearly made some "off-the-wall" choices that proved to be bang on - I mean John Smith's selection, and the likes of Pakenham, Flashman & Budge point to quite an array of interests & different names.

A lot of dead golfers there, and cricketers too. Maybe that's what the DL needs more of next year. Basil D'Oliviera for 2008 anyone?

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Inetersetiung. LOL Yes, I concur. f*****g whisky, it zkesm me do the wildest sh*t.

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Tell me which whiskey your drinking?

14-yo Mortlach: Speyside Single Malt. Whisky, no "e". To me, it tastes like vomit, bit i'm tokld it's actually vwery good,. It fells ok in my head, but in my mouth it's f*****g BAD, , i proimse.

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Time for another updated list, especially as Millwall32 brought back the healthy mularkey thread.

 

 

1987: Dunn, de Cesaris, Wing, Saville, Osbourne (5/31)

1988: ????????????

1989: Bruno, Robson, Mandela, Ditka, Paisley, Kendall, Osbourne, Wilson, Dunn, Smith, Jenkins, Cole (12/32)

1990: Dunn, Noriega, Aznavour, Alliss, Ditka, Rex Williams, Winfrey, Smith, Aquino, Waite, Queen (11/42)

1991: Willis, Smith, Moore, Mandela, Dunn, Gabor, Beenhaaker (7/40)

1992: O'Brien, Cronkite, Finney, Ryder (4/37)

1993: Dunn, Bennett, Curtis, I Paisley, Demjanjuk, Kissinger, Ray Kennedy, Moore, Lineker, Sykes, Foot, Lewis (12/56)

1994: Castro, Demjanjuk, Kirkbride, White, Shamir, Dunn, Thorpe, Shilton, Johnson (8/50)

1995: Curtis, Demjanjuk, Castro, Moore, Forsyth, Connery, Johnson (7/50)

1996: Hagman, Demjanjuk, Mr T, Thorpe, Domino, Castro (6/50)

1997: Wisdom, Rooney, Domino, Douglas, Dunn (5/50)

1998: Rooney, Solzhenitsyn, Jaruzelski, Sykes (4/50)

1999: Havel, Leeson, Simon (3/50)

2000: Havel, Farrakan, Dunn, Foot, Jaruzelski, Biggs, Solzhenitsyn, Malden (8/50)

2001: Tutu, Minelli, Jones, Pincher, Wallach, Wouk, Rooney (7/50)

2002: Biggs, Brady, Foot, bin Laden, Malden, Higgins, Levi-Strauss, Douglas, Kendall, Niemeyer (10/50)

2003: Biggs, Jones, Foot, Malden, Morgan, Wisdom, Shamir, Cronkite, Rooney, Gabor, Sykes, Havel (12/50)

2004: Biggs, Foot, Levi-Strauss, Solzhenitsyn, Brady, Shamir, Musharraf, Wallach, Mintoff, Douglas, O'Brien, Michelmore, Rooney, Mugabe, Dunn (15/50)

2005: Biggs, Moore, Niemayer, Levi-Strauss, Wisdom, Taylor, Solzhenitsyn, Rayner, Karzai, Maradona, LaMotta, Foot, Martin, Wallach, Paul, de Havilland, Cronkite, O'Sullevan, Castro, Lewis, B Ford (21/50)

2006: di Stefano, Biggs, Niemayer, Levi-Stauss, Pinter, Moore, Foot, Wallach, Wisdom, Douglas, Mintoff, Lynn, Bouteflika, Solzhenitsyn, Graham, Thatcher, Ali, de Laurentiis, Salinger, Rayner, LaMotta, Rooney, Curtis, Mandela, Taylor, Dunn (26/50)

2007: 38 out of 50 survivors at present

2008: 41 out of 50 survivors at present

 

It has to be said that some survivors of the DL are going on strong, despite their age. I suppose George Lineker will end up being the longest survivor on the list in years to come, but who knows? Clive Dunn IS immortal after all....

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As a matter of interest, would anyone currently active in the admins of this site confess that in their younger and more reckless days they supported the nomination of George Lineker?

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I wonder which year will be the first to see all those listed die.

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As a matter of interest, would anyone currently active in the admins of this site confess that in their younger and more reckless days they supported the nomination of George Lineker?

I really wouldn't like to say, Officer. :birthday2:

 

Incidentally, George's younger brother Angus has had trials with Chelsea, according to The Sun (while the Mail reckons it's a different brother, Tobias).

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I wonder which year will be the first to see all those listed die.

 

My money would be on 1998: Rooney & Sykes are fine now, but well in their 80's, whereas

Solzhenitsyn & Jaruzelski are in poor health.

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I wonder which year will be the first to see all those listed die.

 

My money would be on 1998: Rooney & Sykes are fine now, but well in their 80's, whereas

Solzhenitsyn & Jaruzelski are in poor health.

 

 

I agree with you on that one . I must admit to not knowing of Jaruzelski before hand but I think he seems like a good bet for the not too distant future.

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I wonder which year will be the first to see all those listed die.

 

My money would be on 1998: Rooney & Sykes are fine now, but well in their 80's, whereas

Solzhenitsyn & Jaruzelski are in poor health.

 

 

I agree with you on that one . I must admit to not knowing of Jaruzelski before hand but I think he seems like a good bet for the not too distant future.

 

I think that he'd be a good pick for next year on DL if he lives to then, what with the hospitalizations he's had this year.

 

And it's neat to see how the former list survivors go on. It shows that skill has improved in picks over the years - the early years of DL went under 50 pick wise, yet today some of those years still have at least 10 living names, yet there's 5 living names for '97, 4 for '98, and 3 for '99. And 2006 already has barely more than half of the list alive.

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Guest WEP
Tell me which whiskey your drinking?

14-yo Mortlach: Speyside Single Malt. Whisky, no "e". To me, it tastes like vomit, bit i'm tokld it's actually vwery good,. It fells ok in my head, but in my mouth it's f*****g BAD, , i proimse.

 

What about Holly Johnson, nominated in 1994/95 and the Queen in 1990. Are they not counted as "alive"?

 

Also missing in 2004: Herbert lom and Karl Malden and in 2005 Lom again!

 

And by the way, if I understand it right, it was not George Linaker, who was nominated, it was his son!

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Guest WEP
Time for another updated list, especially as Millwall32 brought back the healthy mularkey thread.

 

 

1987: Dunn, de Cesaris, Wing, Saville, Osbourne (5/31)

1988: ????????????

1989: Bruno, Robson, Mandela, Ditka, Paisley, Kendall, Osbourne, Wilson, Dunn, Smith, Jenkins, Cole (12/32)

1990: Dunn, Noriega, Aznavour, Alliss, Ditka, Rex Williams, Winfrey, Smith, Aquino, Waite (10/42)

1991: Willis, Smith, Moore, Mandela, Dunn, Gabor, Beenhaaker (7/40)

1992: O'Brien, Cronkite, Finney, Ryder (4/37)

1993: Dunn, Bennett, Curtis, I Paisley, Demjanjuk, Kissinger, Ray Kennedy, Moore, Lineker, Sykes, Foot, Lewis (12/56)

1994: Castro, Demjanjuk, Kirkbride, White, Shamir, Dunn, Thorpe, Shilton (7/50)

1995: Curtis, Demjanjuk, Castro, Moore, Forsyth, Connery (6/50)

1996: Hagman, Demjanjuk, Mr T, Thorpe, Domino, Castro (6/50)

1997: Wisdom, Rooney, Domino, Douglas, Dunn (5/50)

1998: Rooney, Solzhenitsyn, Jaruzelski, Sykes (4/50)

1999: Havel, Leeson, Simon (3/50)

2000: Havel, Farrakan, Dunn, Foot, Jaruzelski, Biggs, Solzhenitsyn, Malden (8/50)

2001: Tutu, Minelli, Jones, Pincher, Wallach, Wouk, Rooney (7/50)

2002: Biggs, Brady, Foot, bin Laden, Malden, Higgins, Levi-Strauss, Douglas, Kendall, Niemeyer (10/50)

2003: Biggs, Jones, Foot, Malden, Morgan, Wisdom, Shamir, Cronkite, Rooney, Gabor, Sykes, Havel (12/50)

2004: Biggs, Foot, Levi-Strauss, Solzhenitsyn, Brady, Shamir, Musharraf, Wallach, Mintoff, Douglas, O'Brien, Michelmore, Rooney, Mugabe, Dunn (15/50)

2005: Biggs, Moore, Niemayer, Levi-Strauss, Wisdom, Taylor, Solzhenitsyn, Rayner, Karzai, Maradona, LaMotta, Foot, Martin, Wallach, Paul, de Havilland, Cronkite, O'Sullevan, Castro, Lewis, B Ford (21/50)

2006: di Stefano, Biggs, Niemayer, Levi-Stauss, Pinter, Moore, Foot, Wallach, Wisdom, Douglas, Mintoff, Lynn, Bouteflika, Solzhenitsyn, Graham, Thatcher, Ali, de Laurentiis, Salinger, Rayner, LaMotta, Rooney, Curtis, Mandela, Taylor, Dunn (26/50)

2007: 38 out of 50 survivors at present

2008: 41 out of 50 survivors at present

 

It has to be said that some survivors of the DL are going on strong, despite their age. I suppose George Lineker will end up being the longest survivor on the list in years to come, but who knows? Clive Dunn IS immortal after all....

 

What about Holly Johnson, nominated in 1994/95 and the Queen in 1990. Are they not counted as "alive"?

 

Also missing in 2004: Herbert lom and Karl Malden and in 2005 Lom again!

 

And by the way, if I understand it right, it was not George Linaker, who was nominated, it was his son!

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What about Holly Johnson, nominated in 1994/95 and the Queen in 1990. Are they not counted as "alive"?

Also missing in 2004: Herbert lom and Karl Malden and in 2005 Lom again!

And by the way, if I understand it right, it was not George Linaker, who was nominated, it was his son!

 

 

You haven't understood a lot right, no. :birthday2:

 

I'll admit Johnson & the Queen, apologies.

 

But Lom & Malden are not missing, because they weren't PICKED in 2004 & 2005!!

 

..and considering George Lineker (note spelling) was a baby when he was picked, I find it hard to understand how he might have had a son nominated? Unlike you, I do know the difference between Gary & George Lineker.

 

So, next time you come in with pissy comments about my errors, make sure you've not made any of your own, son...

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Guest WEP
What about Holly Johnson, nominated in 1994/95 and the Queen in 1990. Are they not counted as "alive"?

Also missing in 2004: Herbert lom and Karl Malden and in 2005 Lom again!

And by the way, if I understand it right, it was not George Linaker, who was nominated, it was his son!

 

 

You haven't understood a lot right, no. :birthday2:

 

I'll admit Johnson & the Queen, apologies.

 

But Lom & Malden are not missing, because they weren't PICKED in 2004 & 2005!!

 

..and considering George Lineker (note spelling) was a baby when he was picked, I find it hard to understand how he might have had a son nominated? Unlike you, I do know the difference between Gary & George Lineker.

 

So, next time you come in with pissy comments about my errors, make sure you've not made any of your own, son...

 

I see that I was wrong, I really apologize about that Lineker thing...

 

But according to Malden and Lom, I searched them on the search tool. (It is in the first row under "search") When you type "Karl Malden" into the box, you will see, that he was nominated as number 33 in 2004. The same search for Herbert Lom shows, that he was number 44 in 2004 and 45 in 2005. Of course, they are not written onto the list, all these numbers are missing, but also are number 1 "Pope John Paul II" and number 10 "Rodney Dangerfield". (And he scored for 2004, didn't he?)

 

I was always wondering about the fact that Mr. Dangerfield was noted in as "kill" without being listed.

 

But of course sorry for my try to help!

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I see that I was wrong, I really apologize about that Lineker thing...

 

But according to Malden and Lom, I searched them on the search tool. (It is in the first row under "search") When you type "Karl Malden" into the box, you will see, that he was nominated as number 33 in 2004. The same search for Herbert Lom shows, that he was number 44 in 2004 and 45 in 2005. Of course, they are not written onto the list, all these numbers are missing, but also are number 1 "Pope John Paul II" and number 10 "Rodney Dangerfield". (And he scored for 2004, didn't he?)

 

But of course sorry for my try to help!

 

Sorry, WEP, I was very cranky this morning as I have a rotten cold :birthday2: & took it the wrong way. Looking back now, I was a bit rude (alright, very rude), :( which is not my way (bar Iain postings), so many apologies for that & thanks for your help.

 

Hmmm...

So Malden & Lom are listed on 2004 & 2005, but are not on the list on the main page.. Mysteries indeed... is there a black box of the DL where people go missing or is there an error somewhere? I think we should be told... :)

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I see that I was wrong, I really apologize about that Lineker thing...

 

But according to Malden and Lom, I searched them on the search tool. (It is in the first row under "search") When you type "Karl Malden" into the box, you will see, that he was nominated as number 33 in 2004. The same search for Herbert Lom shows, that he was number 44 in 2004 and 45 in 2005. Of course, they are not written onto the list, all these numbers are missing, but also are number 1 "Pope John Paul II" and number 10 "Rodney Dangerfield". (And he scored for 2004, didn't he?)

 

But of course sorry for my try to help!

 

Sorry, WEP, I was very cranky this morning as I have a rotten cold :birthday2: & took it the wrong way. Looking back now, I was a bit rude (alright, very rude), :( which is not my way (bar Iain postings), so many apologies for that & thanks for your help.

 

Hmmm...

So Malden & Lom are listed on 2004 & 2005, but are not on the list on the main page.. Mysteries indeed... is there a black box of the DL where people go missing or is there an error somewhere? I think we should be told... :)

 

2004: Numbers 1, 10, 28, 33, 37 and 44 are missing. (use them for your Lottery numbers)

2005: 40 and 45 are missing.

1991: No-one died.

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I see that I was wrong, I really apologize about that Lineker thing...

 

But according to Malden and Lom, I searched them on the search tool. (It is in the first row under "search") When you type "Karl Malden" into the box, you will see, that he was nominated as number 33 in 2004. The same search for Herbert Lom shows, that he was number 44 in 2004 and 45 in 2005. Of course, they are not written onto the list, all these numbers are missing, but also are number 1 "Pope John Paul II" and number 10 "Rodney Dangerfield". (And he scored for 2004, didn't he?)

 

But of course sorry for my try to help!

 

Sorry, WEP, I was very cranky this morning as I have a rotten cold :birthday2: & took it the wrong way. Looking back now, I was a bit rude (alright, very rude), :( which is not my way (bar Iain postings), so many apologies for that & thanks for your help.

 

Hmmm...

So Malden & Lom are listed on 2004 & 2005, but are not on the list on the main page.. Mysteries indeed... is there a black box of the DL where people go missing or is there an error somewhere? I think we should be told... :)

 

2004: Numbers 1, 10, 28, 33, 37 and 44 are missing. (use them for your Lottery numbers)

2005: 40 and 45 are missing.

1991: No-one died.

 

I looked up the missing ones:

 

2004: Pope John Paul I (1), Rodney Dangerfield (10), Edward Heath (28), Karl Malden (33), General Pinochet (37), Herbert Lom (44) (so only two survivors...)

2005: General Pinochet (40), Herbert Lom (45) (Lom goes on...)

 

So finally, we know, who is missing without being missed...

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