MHDP

[Bibliogryphon 9,577]

Count me in.

[Rotten Ali 600]

Not sure about any entry I could put forward. My OCD is shouting that there are thousands of languages. Could it be that there could be a maximum top out score of ANY 20 languages? At that moment you can finish surching for more obits and be happy that you have maximised your score and the go and do something more useful.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Not sure about any entry I could put forward. My OCD is shouting that there are thousands of languages. Could it be that there could be a maximum top out score of ANY 20 languages? At that moment you can finish surching for more obits and be happy that you have maximised your score and the go and do something more useful.

Let's think about this. I suppose that when a really famous person dies, in the phil/pope/potus class, any and all newspaper with an eye on world events will carry the news. Possibly in thousands of languages. My current rules say: present the evidence and points will be awarded if its language can be identified and if it is one of the 291 languages that have a Wikipedia. I don't expect obits written in Latin, but if you find one in a reliable news source (doesn't the Vatican do a news bulletin in Latin?) you're in luck.

 

The trouble with a cap is that any number lower than 291 is arbitrary. Hell, my choice of what are qualifying languages is utterly arbitrary. Contenders get a week to find QOs in as many QLs as they can. They can also let other members, who have the same hit, do the work. They all score the same, barring jokers.

 

I'm not keen on a cap, but if somebody has ideas or a new perspective, spit it out. Oh, and the period of the deadline can be shorter. How about a day?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Magere Hein
Shorter deadline proposed

[time 8,599]

 

Not sure about any entry I could put forward. My OCD is shouting that there are thousands of languages. Could it be that there could be a maximum top out score of ANY 20 languages? At that moment you can finish surching for more obits and be happy that you have maximised your score and the go and do something more useful.

Let's think about this. I suppose that when a really famous person dies, in the phil/pope/potus class, any and all newspaper with an eye on world events will carry the news. Possibly in thousands of languages. My current rules say: present the evidence and points will be awarded if its language can be identified and if it is one of the 291 languages that have a Wikipedia. I don't expect obits written in Latin, but if you find one in a reliable news source (doesn't the Vatican do a news bulletin in Latin?) you're in luck.

 

The trouble with a cap is that any number lower than 291 is arbitrary. Hell, my choice of what are qualifying languages is utterly arbitrary. Contenders get a week to find QOs in as many QLs as they can. They can also let other members, who have the same hit, do the work. They all score the same, barring jokers.

 

I'm not keen on a cap, but if somebody has ideas or a new perspective, spit it out. Oh, and the period of the deadline can be shorter. How about a day?

 

A day's too short. Some of us do work, you know! But, your ball, your rules.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

 

 

Not sure about any entry I could put forward. My OCD is shouting that there are thousands of languages. Could it be that there could be a maximum top out score of ANY 20 languages? At that moment you can finish surching for more obits and be happy that you have maximised your score and the go and do something more useful.

Let's think about this. I suppose that when a really famous person dies, in the phil/pope/potus class, any and all newspaper with an eye on world events will carry the news. Possibly in thousands of languages. My current rules say: present the evidence and points will be awarded if its language can be identified and if it is one of the 291 languages that have a Wikipedia. I don't expect obits written in Latin, but if you find one in a reliable news source (doesn't the Vatican do a news bulletin in Latin?) you're in luck.

 

The trouble with a cap is that any number lower than 291 is arbitrary. Hell, my choice of what are qualifying languages is utterly arbitrary. Contenders get a week to find QOs in as many QLs as they can. They can also let other members, who have the same hit, do the work. They all score the same, barring jokers.

 

I'm not keen on a cap, but if somebody has ideas or a new perspective, spit it out. Oh, and the period of the deadline can be shorter. How about a day?

 

A day's too short. Some of us do work, you know! But, your ball, your rules.

 

 

Sure, but I like a bit of feedback, particularly questions of the type: "Do you think that's wise?" Of course is a day too short. I can also enter an element of randomness here, by ruling that the deadline ends midnight GMT starting the Monday following the death of a pick.

 

Oh, and Carter has a Latin Wiki.

[time 8,599]

[gcreptile 10,970]

I would give an additional point per language, not a multiplier. Jimmy Carter will still be better than Joey Feek in that case. I think it's a question of balance. Get lucky with one unlikely but spectacular hit, say, Paul McCartney, and a mutliplier and a myriad of languages will beat tons of other suitable names.

I also like the idea of a cap. 20...the more I think about it, the more correct 20 sounds. First I thought that 10 would be a good number, so I counted: english, german, french, spanish, portuguese, dutch, and THEN it gets interesting I think. But then there would be only 4 'bonus languages' which strikes me as a little too low. 15 or 20 might be better.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Oh sod it, I'll have a go. Quite an interesting concept, after all how many huge deaths can there be in a year, especially one in which we've already lost Bowie and Rickman, while picking those who get the big points (i.e. not the old and decrepit) is a total lottery.

 

As for the languages cap, think I'm with Magere. A week is plenty of time (although I get that people have 1) jobs and 2) several deadpools to attend to at any one time) and it's not as if the onus is on one person to find them all to gain their points, anyone can contribute a qualifying obit in any language and they count for everybody. I guess it's only an issue when you're seeking unique pick points. But how long does it take to type <celebrity name> <'dies' in any particular language'> into google? You know, 291 times...

[Rotten Ali 600]

Stupid tiny writing on the clothing labels on an Adidas top is done in (from what I can make out) 24 languages. Sorry, but no chance I can dead-ecate to go searching 291 wiki pages. The cap level on number of qualified languages sure is arbitrary. Said to be about 5000 to 8000 languages worldwide. 291 is still to high. 20 is quite manageable but obviously low by all accounts. As an idea about a high cap figure I could actually manage - How about single lines on ruled A4paper? I've got a pad here that has 44 standard narrow lines. You could have ANY 44 languages only from those listed 291 (or how ever many) main wiki languages.

 

https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

So how do we do it? First 40 qualifying obits in different languages count, regardless of which ones? Won't this lead primarily to people building up a bank of decent news sources, say the equivalent of the BBC in every European country? I do get that his is hugely debatable and there is no definitive right and wrong answer but something in me says you should get kudos for finding an obit for David Bowie in, say, Latin or the aforementioned West Flemish. I just can't see how this could be integrated as a bonus though.

 

Also worth noting that I assume no one would have to look through 291 languages, different people would find different ones, and also, would we expect Terry Wogan, for instance, to be obit-worthy in Creole? It's only the stratospheric ones that would be worth deep searching, and you can't expect more than 3 or 4 of them in a tops in a year.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts, I don't mind what's eventually decided.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

MHDP - Multilingual Handicap Deadpool

The rules version 0.9

1. Competition period
1.1 The competition runs during the tropical year that starts on the March equinox 2016, 20 March 2016 04:30 UTC and ends 20 March 2017 10:28 UTC.

2. Competitors
2.1 Competitors must be members of Deathlist Forum.
2.2 Each member of Deathlist Forum may enter one team.
2,3 A member becomes a competitor by posting a team in this topic ("MHDP"), or sending a PM containing the team to Magere Hein.

2.4 Only teams entered before the Competition period compete.

3. Teams and picks
3.1 A competitor may choose to give his or her team a name. If no name is chosen, the competitor's Deathlist member name is used.
3.2 Once posted or PM'd, the team is fixed.
3.3 Each team consist of 20 picks. One of those picks may be assigned as Joker. If no Joker is assigned in the entry post or PM, the first pick mentioned is used as Joker.
3.4 A competitor may assign up to two substitutes, and a substitute Joker, who will take the place of picks who die between posting or PMing the team and the start of the competition.
3.5 Picks must be people aged 18 or older. Minors, animals, plants, corporations, mythical beings and anthropomorphic personifications cannot score and are not replaced by substitutions.
3.6 Picks must be named unambiguously. In case of similar names for different people, additional information like day of birth, nationality or reason for celebrity must be supplied. In case of confusion the intended pick is considered to be the one who didn't die.

4. Scores and standings
4.1 All teams start the competion at a score of 0.
4.2 When a pick dies within the competition period, teams who have that pick as a member may score points.
4.3 To score, one or more Qualifying Obits must be posted in a separate topic ("MHDP obits") within the deadline. From the number of languages in which obits are found a multiplier is calculated that will be applied to the pick's basic score. Each team will be awarded that score. A team for which the pick was the Joker will awarded double that score.
4.4 After all scores are added to previous scores, a new standing is calculated and posted in this topic.
4.5 The team that has the highest score at the end of the competition period wins.
4.6 In the event of a dead heat on points, the winner will be selected according to the following criteria, applied in this order:
4.6.1 The most hits (i.e. correctly-chosen deceased celebs)
4.6.2 The youngest average age of hits
4.6.3 The most amusing team name

5. Obit qualification
5.1 To qualify as an obit, an online or printed text must mention the name of a particular and identifiable person and that that person died. More evidence may be required to convince me that the person mentioned is the one on a team claiming points.
5.2 Anything in writing from a source that has status as a reliable news source qualifies, provided that:
5.2.1 It can be identified as a news source, and
5.2.2 it can be reasonably translated e.g. by Google translate.
5.3 Reliable news sources are: newspapers, television stations, press agencies, government information agencies, both national and local, and the websites of all those. Dedicated news websites, sports news websites and such are ok. A corporation news page may qualify if it has a demonstrable history of reliable communications.
5.4 The qualifying communication must be in text. Spoken messages do not qualify for reason of translation, stills or footage of text may do if the text can be easily converted to a translatable text. Scans of newsprint may qualify if the source can be identified from the scan.
5.5 Social media like twitter, facebook and linkedin, encyclopedias like Wikipedia, advertisements, internet fora and anything that is user editable are not reliable news sources. Youtube may be, but only its content, not comments.
5.6 In case of doubt, reliable news source must be demonstrated by evidence. For future reference lists will be maintained of internet domains that have been evaluated as reliable news source and unreliable (or not a news source) respectively.

 

6. Scoring
6.1 The value of the basic death depends on the person's age:

• 18-29 years: 12 points
• 30-49 years: 10 points
• 50-59 years: 9 points
• 60-69 years: 8 points
• 70-79 years: 7 points
• 80-89 years: 6 points
• 90-99 years: 5 points
• 100-109 years: 4 points
• 110+ years: 3 points

6.2 On top of this, bonus points are awarded as follows:

• Unique pick: +3 if you were the only competitor to pick that person.
• Unnatural cause: +3 for murder, suicide or accident (but not state executions).

6.3 Language multiplier

6.3.1 A multiplier is calculated, according to the number of different languages in which an obit can be shown.

6.3.2 Showing means posting a link to a website showing the obit, a picture or a scan, and a translation if required. I can read Dutch, English, German and French, so I won't need translations for obits in those languages. When there's reason for doubt, it's a claimant's duty to provide evidence that a proposed obit is written in a particular language.

6.3.3 A dialect is, for scoring purposes, a language when it has a Wikipedia.

6.3.4 Everybody may propose obits, not just contenders.

6.3.5 Once an obit qualifies, it counts, it cannot be retracted.

6.3.6 Of each dead pick only one obit counts for each language.

6.3.7 The value of this multiplier is

1 + log₂(l)

where log₂ is the logarithm to base 2 and l is the number of different languages for which obits are found and approved. This means that each new language increases the multiplier, but by rapidly diminishing amounts:

 

l multiplier

1 1

2 2

3 2.585

4 3

10 4.322

25 5.644

32 6

256 9

 

6.4 The basic score from 6.2 is multiplied by the language multiplier.

6.5 That score, rounded to the nearest integer, is the final score.

6.6 Joker: Take the total of all the above and double it.

 

7. Deadline for obits
7.1 After the death of a pick has been mentioned in this topic, (with or without an obit link) there's a limited time to propose obits.

7.2 This period ends one week after UTC+0 following the first mention.

7.3 Proposals entered after this time will be ignored.

7.4 Only after this period the score for a pick will be calculated and a new score board posted.

7.5 Additional time for evalutation of obits may be awarded as need demands and reason permits.

7.6 For all time calculations the forum server time is used.

As an example: Christy O'Donnell's death was mentioned first in the DDP topic on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:05 PM CET (UTC+1). That's 09 Feb 2016 - 18:05 PM UTC+0 (GMT). The deadline ends 10 Feb 2016 + 7 = 17 Feb 2016 - 0:00 UTC.

 

8 Additional rules
8.1 Prisoners on "Death Row" i.e. awaiting state execution can only score points if they die of other causes. Picks that are on trial or are put on trial and are found guilty and executed are not disqualified but will not claim the unnatural points bonus.

8.2 Hostages of terrorist organisations. We have no absolute knowledge of whether they are alive, dead or when they supposedly died. Terrorist organisation members are included but there has to be official verification of when they died from both sides of the conflict (i.e. "The West" and the terrorists themselves).

8.3 In all cases these rules don't cover Magere Hein is the sole arbitrator, but debate much encouraged.

---

I dropped the party pooper bonus and the Unlucky 13. If somebody has a suggestion for a replacement: shoot!

 

I decided to stay with the deadline starting when a death is mentioned first, not when the pick dies. Even in this day and age the news may take some time to travel.

 

I suppose my new multiplier rule is the most important change. Not capped, but more languages rapidly diminish in value.

Again, additions, comments and ridicule are welcome. From them I'll compile v 1.0 and it's game on!

[time 8,599]

 

 

6.3.3 A dialect is, for scoring purposes, a language when it has a Wikipedia.

This counts then?

[gcreptile 10,970]

I like the new multiplier, though, of course, 256 languages is going to take a LOT of time.

 

Let me think: Jimmy Carter probably gets these 256 obits, so it's 9*5=45 pts.

So Mr./Mrs. cancer celebrity of age 29 or less, needs hits in about 8-9 languages to match it. (12*4)=48. Wow, that's tough.

 

Ok, what about your aging rockstar dying in his seventies? 7 pts. So to match Jimmy Carter, he needs about 40 languages (So that it's 7*6,xx=45). Ok, that has got to be a global star.

 

Let's see how it works. I think the teams will be very different from the DDP.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

 

6.3.3 A dialect is, for scoring purposes, a language when it has a Wikipedia.

This counts then?

 

No, because there is no Wikipedia in Klingon. At least not in a wikipedia.org domain. There is http://klingon.wikia.com/wiki/ghItlha' which may or may not be in Klingon (I can't say), looks like an encyclopedia and is, ehrm, different.

 

I'd love to see an obit in Klingon, though, of say Zsa Zsa Gabor.

[Bibliogryphon 9,577]

 

 

6.3.3 A dialect is, for scoring purposes, a language when it has a Wikipedia.

This counts then?

 

No, because there is no Wikipedia in Klingon. At least not in a wikipedia.org domain. There is She is an expert in Klingingon.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

I was wondering where we were standing on this as it hadn't been mentioned for a couple of weeks. I like the new multiplier logarithm. Think it rewards those who can find obscure obits but doesn't unfairly penalise those who can't be bothered scouring the web for them. Good compromise.

 

Not sure picking this for my first general deadpool is a great idea though. The fine arts of picking winners who score lots of obits might not be my forte.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Since I got no comments that need further reflection, I'll finalise the rules later today. There will be one rule change, I have an idea for an additional bonus. The rest is just a few editorial bits.

 

I'll accept MHDP teams from now. Start thinking about whom to pick, if you haven't done yet.

 

By way of a prize for the winner: one tin of stroopwafels, sent to any address in the world by surface mail, or its value and postage to any charity that accepts PayPal payments.

 

 

The prize stroopwafels will be a bit smaller.

[Toast 16,138]

Stroopwafels? Now you're talking

 

What about a bonus for two picks dying on the same day? Not unknown. but it goes unrewarded on the DDP.

[Bibliogryphon 9,577]

My team has been assembled and PMd to MH.

 

That was a useful hour on the train from London last night.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

MHDP - Multilingual Handicap Deadpool

The rules v. 1.0

1. Competition period
1.1 The competition runs during the tropical year that starts on the March equinox 2016, 20 March 2016 04:30 UTC and ends 20 March 2017 10:28 UTC.

2. Competitors
2.1 A competitors must be a member of Deathlist Forum.
2.2 Each member of Deathlist Forum may enter one team.
2.3 A member becomes a competitor by posting a team in this topic ("MHDP"), or sending a PM containing the team to @Magere Hein.
2.4 Only teams entered before the competition period compete.

3. Teams and picks
3.1 A competitor may choose to give his or her team a name. If no name is chosen, the competitor's Deathlist member name is used.
3.2 Once posted or PMd, the team is fixed.
3.3 Each team consists of 20 picks. One of those picks may be assigned as Joker. If no Joker is assigned in the entry post or PM, the first pick mentioned is used as Joker.
3.4 A competitor may assign up to two substitutes, and a substitute Joker, who will take the place of picks who die between posting or PMing the team and the start of the competition.
3.5 Picks must be people aged 18 or older. Minors, animals, plants, corporations, mythical beings and anthropomorphic personifications cannot score and are not replaced by substitutions.
3.6 Picks must be named unambiguously. In case of similar names for different people, additional information like day of birth, nationality or reason for celebrity must be supplied. In case of confusion the intended pick is considered to be the one who didn't die.

4. Scores and standings
4.1 All teams start the competion at a score of 0.
4.2 When a pick dies within the competition period, teams who have that pick as a member may score points.
4.3 To score, one or more Qualifying Obits must be posted in a separate topic ("MHDP obits") within the deadline. From the number of languages in which obits are found a multiplier is calculated that will be applied to the pick's basic score. Each team with the pick as a member will be awarded that score. A team for which the pick was the Joker will be awarded double that score.
4.4 After all scores are added to previous scores, a new standing is calculated and posted in this topic.
4.5 The team that has the highest score at the end of the competition period wins.
4.6 In the event of a dead heat on points, the winner will be selected according to the following criteria, applied in this order:
4.6.1 The most hits
4.6.2 The youngest average age of hits
4.6.3 The most amusing team name

5. Obit qualification
5.1 To qualify as an obit, an online or printed text must mention the name of a particular and identifiable person and that that person died. More evidence may be required to convince me that the person mentioned is the one on a team claiming points.
5.2 Anything in writing from a source that has status as a reliable news source qualifies, provided that:
5.2.1 It can be identified as a news source, and
5.2.2 it can be reasonably translated e.g. by Google translate.
5.3 Reliable news sources are: newspapers, television stations, press agencies, government information agencies, both national and local, and the websites of all those. Dedicated news websites, sports news websites and such are ok. A corporation news page may qualify if it has a demonstrable history of reliable communications.
5.4 The qualifying communication must be in text. Spoken messages do not qualify for reason of translation, stills or footage of text may do if the text can be easily converted to a translatable text. Scans of newsprint may qualify if the source can be identified from the scan.
5.5 Social media like twitter, facebook and linkedin, encyclopedias like Wikipedia, advertisements, internet fora and anything that is user editable are not reliable news sources. Youtube may be, but only its content, not comments.
5.6 In case of doubt, reliable news source must be demonstrated by evidence. For future reference lists will be maintained of internet domains that have been evaluated as reliable news source and unreliable (or not a news source) respectively.

6. Scoring
6.1 The value of the basic death depends on the person's age:

• 18-29 years: 12 points
• 30-49 years: 10 points
• 50-59 years: 9 points
• 60-69 years: 8 points
• 70-79 years: 7 points
• 80-89 years: 6 points
• 90-99 years: 5 points
• 100-109 years: 4 points
• 110+ years: 3 points

6.2 On top of this, bonus points are awarded as follows:

• Double death: +3 for each pick, when two or more picks die on the same day. For this rule the same day means: on the same date after conversion to UTC. Time of death needs to be provided for this bonus.
• Felicitous female: +3 for a female pick who dies on International Women's Day, March 8, UTC. Time of death needs to be provided for this bonus.
• Unique pick: +3 if a team is the only competitor to pick that person.
• Unnatural cause: +3 for murder, suicide or accident (but not state executions).

6.3 Language multiplier
6.3.1 A multiplier is calculated, according to the number of different languages in which an obit can be shown.
6.3.2 Showing means posting a link to a website showing the obit, a picture or a scan, and a translation if required. I can read Dutch, English, German and French, so I won't need translations for obits in those languages. When there's reason for doubt, it's a claimant's duty to provide evidence that a proposed obit is written in a particular language.
6.3.3 A dialect is, for scoring purposes, a language when it has a Wikipedia.
6.3.4 Everybody may propose obits, not just contenders.
6.3.5 Once an obit qualifies, it counts, it cannot be retracted.
6.3.6 Of each dead pick only one obit counts for each language.
6.3.7 The value of this multiplier is

1 + log₂(l)

where log₂ is the logarithm to base 2 and l is the number of different languages for which obits are found and approved. Each new language increases the multiplier, but by rapidly diminishing amounts.
6.4 The basic score from 6.2 is multiplied by the language multiplier.
6.5 That score, rounded to the nearest integer, is the final score.
6.6 Joker: Take the total of all the above and double it.

7. Deadline for obits
7.1 After the death of a pick has been announced in this topic there's a limited time to propose obits.
7.2 This period ends one week after UTC+0 following the first mention.
7.3 Proposals entered after this time will be ignored.
7.4 Only after this period the score for a pick will be calculated and a new score board posted.
7.5 Additional time for evalutation of obits may be awarded as need demands and reason permits.
7.6 For all time calculations the forum server time is used.
As an example: Christy O'Donnell's death was mentioned first in the DDP topic on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:05 PM CET (UTC+1). That's 09 Feb 2016 - 18:05 PM UTC+0 (GMT). The deadline ends 10 Feb 2016 + 7 = 17 Feb 2016 - 0:00 UTC.

8 Additional rules
8.1 Prisoners on "Death Row" i.e. awaiting state execution can only score points if they die of other causes. Picks that are on trial or are put on trial and are found guilty and executed are not disqualified but will not claim the unnatural points bonus.
8.2 Hostages of terrorist organisations. We have no absolute knowledge of whether they are alive, dead or when they supposedly died. Terrorist organisation members are included but there has to be official verification of when they died from both sides of the conflict (i.e. "The West" and the terrorists themselves).
8.3 In all cases these rules don't cover Magere Hein is the sole arbitrator, but debate much encouraged.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines. The competition starts in 23 days.

[The Unknown Man 584]

Here is my team:

 

Muhammad Ali

King Bhumibol Adulyadej

Bonnie Brown

​Glen Campbell

Fidel Castro

Martin Crowe

Jenny Diski

Joey Feek (Joker)

Rob Ford

Zsa Zsa Gabor

Rev. Billy Graham

Valerie Harper

Joao Havelange

Clive James

Howard Marks

Yasuhiro Nakasone

Javier Perez de Cuellar

Prince Philip

Burt Reynolds

Mary Tyler Moore

 

Subs:

Kirk Douglas

Prunella Scales

[Rotten Ali 600]

Great set of rules. Did wonder if you were waffling on a bit... Then low and behold the prize... Behold, you have found my interest well and truly sparked.

[gcreptile 10,970]

I've submitted my team, good luck everyone!

 

I decided to go for something conventional. Basically, only Stephen Hawking is missing from it.

[Deathray 2,940]

If still open mine is

 

Muhammad Ali

King Bhumibol Adulyadej

Bonnie Brown

​Glen Campbell

Fidel Castro

Martin Crowe

Jenny Diski

Joey Feek (Joker)

Rob Ford

Zsa Zsa Gabor

Rev. Billy Graham

Valerie Harper

Joao Havelange

Clive James

Howard Marks

Yasuhiro Nakasone

Javier Perez de Cuellar

Prince Philip

Burt Reynolds

Mary Tyler Moore

Subs:

Kirk Douglas

Prunella Scales