Suicidal Celebs

[CarolAnn 926]

25% of people in the community have a mental disorder of 3/52 duration during any year. Most of this will be mild anxiety and depression. About 230 per 1000 (23%) will visit their Gp with the problem.

 

I read this to be 230 out of 1000 people with a mental disorder, meaning 23% of the people suffering, not 92% of the people suffering.

 

So if you have 1000 people, 250 will have a mental disorder. 57.5 (don't ask) will go to their physician. 34.5 will get a diagnosis and 4.8 will go a psychiatrist. .99 of a person gets banged up in the psych ward.

 

That sounds high to me, but more in line than the 92% figure. Granted, my experience is in the US and not the UK - since we don't have socialized medicine and we have no way to forcibly commit in most states we have more people who don't get help.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

As far as football goes, I remember Justin Fashanu hanging himself. On my usual topic, the only F1 driver to commit suicide was 'Wild' Willy Mairesse (aged 40 and career in terminal decline) in 1969.

 

 

No he wasn't, Jorge Daponte did too.

 

Others further down the ladder have also done so (de Vinuesa), as well as a fair few Indianapolis 500 drivers.

 

 

My great-grandmother also committed suicide, but she wasn't a sportsman. She, was, however at the end of tether with a drunken husband who beat her, nine kids (one of whom was disabled) and the stigma of not being a "perfect" wife (by not standing by her husband 100%) in small, narrow-minded Welsh village. Quite frankly, though it must have utterly devastated my Gran, I admire her for having the courage to go through with it.

Great-Grandad got his just desserts 8 yrs later. Walking home one night, thoroughly pissed, he walked in front of a car & was squished.

 

So, I descended from a serial wife beating boozer & a mentally unstable lady. Says it all really....

[The Pooka 26]

25% of people in the community have a mental disorder of 3/52 duration during any year. Most of this will be mild anxiety and depression. About 230 per 1000 (23%) will visit their Gp with the problem.

 

I read this to be 230 out of 1000 people with a mental disorder, meaning 23% of the people suffering, not 92% of the people suffering.

 

So if you have 1000 people, 250 will have a mental disorder. 57.5 (don't ask) will go to their physician. 34.5 will get a diagnosis and 4.8 will go a psychiatrist. .99 of a person gets banged up in the psych ward.

 

That sounds high to me, but more in line than the 92% figure. Granted, my experience is in the US and not the UK - since we don't have socialized medicine and we have no way to forcibly commit in most states we have more people who don't get help.

Not exactly. Cowboy ronnie was right about 92% of those with a problem going to their GP.

 

ie 250 / 1000 have a problem (25%). Of these 230 go to the GP (23% of the total but 92% of those who have a problem). 140 of these are identified as having a problem (14% of the 100020 get referred to specialist psych services (ie 2%) and 6 get admitted (ie0.6% of the original 1000).

 

PS The study was of adults only. The original studies were by Goldberg and Huxley but community studies of mental diorder have generally found similar pictures. In the US a community study would identify similar levels of problems but, I suspect, the nature of medical provision would make it likely that a very different picture would emerge thereafter with the mildly worried with money paying for psychotherapy while the poor went without much help.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Pooka man, there's students dropping by here and surprising their tutors with A's where they once had D's in Sociology.

 

Great stuff, damn happy I started this grim little thread now.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

No he wasn't, Jorge Daponte did too.

 

Didn't mention that in his profile at grandprix.com. Mind you, that consists of one line saying he was an 'obscure South American' who drove a Maserati 250F. But who didn't drive a Maserati 250F in the 50s?

 

My great-grandmother also committed suicide, but she wasn't a sportsman. She, was, however at the end of tether with a drunken husband who beat her, nine kids (one of whom was disabled) and the stigma of not being a "perfect" wife (by not standing by her husband 100%) in small, narrow-minded Welsh village. Quite frankly, though it must have utterly devastated my Gran, I admire her for having the courage to go through with it.

Great-Grandad got his just desserts 8 yrs later. Walking home one night, thoroughly pissed, he walked in front of a car & was squished.

 

So, I descended from a serial wife beating boozer & a mentally unstable lady. Says it all really....

 

No history of suicide in my family - the only ones to have even attempted it are a cousin and I. There's a history of mental illness in my father's mother's family, which is not talked about. The best known case being a distant relative, Billy Midwinter, who played cricket for Australia and England. But he died in an asylum at 39.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Lawrenson man, are you shitting us or did you really give it a go? Glad you're still around, yer posting on motor racing issues is much valued in MPFC Towers. I'm assuming - if so - you and your cousin didn't try it together.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Didn't mention that in his profile at grandprix.com. Mind you, that consists of one line saying he was an 'obscure South American' who drove a Maserati 250F. But who didn't drive a Maserati 250F in the 50s?

 

Grandprix.com is good, but not perfect.

 

Vittorio Jano also committed suicide, and Maurice Phillippe & someone else whose name I can't recall (and maybe Colin Chapman too????? That's one for the conspiracy theorists). So, if you're going to choose a motor racing suicide, choose a team boss or car designer, rather than a driver.

 

Both Wiki and two very highly regarded research web sites, Stats F1 & Old Racing Cars - WATN? say it's suicide.

My Argentine friend said it was in the obituaries that followed his death that business pressures had been very "intense" shortly before his death and he looked "like a ghost" the last time old friend Menditeguy saw him but was in perfect health.

 

My money's on the suicide theory.

[The Pooka 26]

No he wasn't, Jorge Daponte did too.

 

Didn't mention that in his profile at grandprix.com. Mind you, that consists of one line saying he was an 'obscure South American' who drove a Maserati 250F. But who didn't drive a Maserati 250F in the 50s?

 

My great-grandmother also committed suicide, but she wasn't a sportsman. She, was, however at the end of tether with a drunken husband who beat her, nine kids (one of whom was disabled) and the stigma of not being a "perfect" wife (by not standing by her husband 100%) in small, narrow-minded Welsh village. Quite frankly, though it must have utterly devastated my Gran, I admire her for having the courage to go through with it.

Great-Grandad got his just desserts 8 yrs later. Walking home one night, thoroughly pissed, he walked in front of a car & was squished.

 

So, I descended from a serial wife beating boozer & a mentally unstable lady. Says it all really....

 

No history of suicide in my family - the only ones to have even attempted it are a cousin and I. There's a history of mental illness in my father's mother's family, which is not talked about. The best known case being a distant relative, Billy Midwinter, who played cricket for Australia and England. But he died in an asylum at 39.

Indeed he did lorro. An interesting story. Played test matches for both England and Australia and was kidnapped by W G Grace.

 

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/6605.html

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Strugglin' with the above. I'm assuming the 'he' in the final section is Chapman. Wiki says heart attack although I know the conspiracies range from IRA to suicide.

[The Pooka 26]

Pooka man, there's students dropping by here and surprising their tutors with A's where they once had D's in Sociology.

 

Great stuff, damn happy I started this grim little thread now.

Glad to assist the sandal-clad plagiarists.

 

I used to teach a 10 day degree level unit just on suicide, self-harm and self-mutilation. It was a scream. Its also one of those easy subjects where people just don't get bored with the topic.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

Pooka man, there's students dropping by here and surprising their tutors with A's where they once had D's in Sociology.

 

Great stuff, damn happy I started this grim little thread now.

Glad to assist the sandal-clad plagiarists.

 

I used to teach a 10 day degree level unit just on suicide, self-harm and self-mutilation. It was a scream. Its also one of those easy subjects where people just don't get bored with the topic.

Are tattoos classed as self-mutilation?

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Re the students, I'm assuming the sandal wearers studied theory and the Goths specialised in the - erm - practicals.

[The Pooka 26]

As far as football goes, I remember Justin Fashanu hanging himself. On my usual topic, the only F1 driver to commit suicide was 'Wild' Willy Mairesse (aged 40 and career in terminal decline) in 1969.

 

 

Great-Grandad got his just desserts 8 yrs later. Walking home one night, thoroughly pissed, he walked in front of a car & was squished.

 

I have to be pedantic here. Forgive me.

 

I suspect OOO that he got his deserts. Unless, of course, he was struck by a runaway dessert trolley. In which case I hope that his final memory was of an excellent Black Forest Gateau and a tarte citron that defied description.

[The Pooka 26]

Pooka man, there's students dropping by here and surprising their tutors with A's where they once had D's in Sociology.

 

Great stuff, damn happy I started this grim little thread now.

Glad to assist the sandal-clad plagiarists.

 

I used to teach a 10 day degree level unit just on suicide, self-harm and self-mutilation. It was a scream. Its also one of those easy subjects where people just don't get bored with the topic.

Are tattoos classed as self-mutilation?

Yes in a theoretical sense - along with piercings they count as socially acceptable forms of self-mutilation. As they are socially determined they aren't counted as self-harm or mutilation in surveys, whereas, cutting, burning, inserting sticks up the jacksie ec etc are counted. Its not a precise science!

[Godot 149]

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/holiday.html should take you there. Methods 9, 25 and 35 are particularly interesting.

 

I would take issue with method 28 - Skydiving accident. Since it is rare that people jump alone there would be a more than a slight chance of being rescued by an alert fellow skydiver. I think, therefore, that there is an unacceptably high risk of failure in this method and would urge anyone thinking of using it to think again. It's foolhardy. I regard the suggestion as somewhat irresponsible bordering on callous in an otherwise thoughtfully considered list.

[The Pooka 26]

 

 

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/holiday.html should take you there. Methods 9, 25 and 35 are particularly interesting.

 

I would take issue with method 28 - Skydiving accident. Since it is rare that people jump alone there would be a more than a slight chance of being rescued by an alert fellow skydiver. I think, therefore, that there is an unacceptably high risk of failure in this method and would urge anyone thinking of using it to think again. It's foolhardy. I regard the suggestion as somewhat irresponsible bordering on callous in an otherwise thoughtfully considered list.

'More than slight' - I doubt it. But you may know more than me. Remember if the person is sufficiently motivated to disable both the main and the reserve parachute they may not welcome any attempt to 'rescue' them (at close to 200km/h).

 

I am impressed that you are studying the methods and hope that none of them attract you, good to see you back (your book will emerge when it is ready).

 

Has anyone thought about what method they would use?

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Lawrenson man, are you shitting us or did you really give it a go? Glad you're still around, yer posting on motor racing issues is much valued in MPFC Towers. I'm assuming - if so - you and your cousin didn't try it together.

 

It was in July. I'd just been to a disciplinary hearing at work (I was sacked after all this, but that came much later), and there were these doselupin pills. Plus I was on SPAM due to the anxiety. I woke up 16 hours later - I presume I passed out before I could take enough. The cousin in question is about 10 years older than me, and she tried it sometime in the 1980s, so I heard.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Vittorio Jano also committed suicide, and Maurice Phillippe & someone else whose name I can't recall (and maybe Colin Chapman too????? That's one for the conspiracy theorists). So, if you're going to choose a motor racing suicide, choose a team boss or car designer, rather than a driver.

 

Chapman and Phillippe? Looks like the personnel at Lotus were even more prone to breakdown than the cars were. Or maybe Lotus just attracted unstable risk takers (I read Jackie Stewart was offered 3 times his Tyrrell salary by Chapman, but Mr. Money Conscious turned it down as not worth the risk). How many drivers died in Lotuses? I'm sure it was even more than average for the 50s/60s/70s

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Clarke and Rindt died in Lotuses, the point being they were both the best in the world at what they did at the time. If it could happen to them.....

[DevonDeathTrip 2,358]

I've heard of a suicide method which I think could be an urban myth - shoving a sharp pencil in each nostril and then pushing them quickly and violently upwards in to the brain.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

I've heard of a suicide method which I think could be an urban myth - shoving a sharp pencil in each nostril and then pushing them quickly and violently upwards in to the brain.

 

No.20 on the list.

 

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/holiday.html should take you there. Methods 9, 25 and 35 are particularly interesting.

[Godot 149]

 

 

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/holiday.html should take you there. Methods 9, 25 and 35 are particularly interesting.

 

I would take issue with method 28 - Skydiving accident. Since it is rare that people jump alone there would be a more than a slight chance of being rescued by an alert fellow skydiver. I think, therefore, that there is an unacceptably high risk of failure in this method and would urge anyone thinking of using it to think again. It's foolhardy. I regard the suggestion as somewhat irresponsible bordering on callous in an otherwise thoughtfully considered list.

'More than slight' - I doubt it. But you may know more than me. Remember if the person is sufficiently motivated to disable both the main and the reserve parachute they may not welcome any attempt to 'rescue' them (at close to 200km/h).

 

I am impressed that you are studying the methods and hope that none of them attract you, good to see you back (your book will emerge when it is ready).

 

 

 

 

Has anyone thought about what method they would use?

I know about this stuff Pook since I took lifesaving badges etc in swimming as a youth. As you say it is quite likely that a struggling person will panic and lash out at you so you are supposed to sock them on the jaw to sort of quieten them and then you pull them to the side while supporting their head above water. So you might have to do the former stuff with a kamikazi parachutist but after that you need only hold on to them while you deploy your shoot for the both of you. Speed through the air is not an issue when you are both travelling at the same velocity. Obviously you need to keep tight hold when the parachute jerks. I think that jumping off a high building - as Tracey Emin (see earlier post) could possibly contemplate as performance art - is likely to be far more effective without any real risk of failure. (re-parenthasis: true, but book won't write itself)

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Re the pencils; I did hear a story - almost certainly an urban myth - of a man involved in a minor car accident. The story went that he sat there looking blankly ahead so another motorist knocked on his car door. Soon enough everyone realised he was dead. The cause of death being the fact that he'd rear ended the car in front, shot forward in his own seat and stuck his own finger into his brain because he'd been picking his nose at the time.

[CarolAnn 926]

PS The study was of adults only. The original studies were by Goldberg and Huxley but community studies of mental diorder have generally found similar pictures. In the US a community study would identify similar levels of problems but, I suspect, the nature of medical provision would make it likely that a very different picture would emerge thereafter with the mildly worried with money paying for psychotherapy while the poor went without much help.

Pooka - FYI. You may find this interesting.

 

****************************************************

Mental Health: A Report of the US Surgeon General

 

Overall Patterns of Use

 

According to recent national surveys (Regier et al, 1993b; Kessler et al., 1996), a total of about 15 percent of the U.S. adult population use mental health services in any given year. Eleven percent receive their services from either the general medical care sector or the specialty mental health sector, in roughly equal proportions. In addition, about 5 percent receive care from the human services sector, and about 3 percent receive care from the voluntary support network. (The overlap across these latter two sectors accounts for these figures totaling more than 15 percent.)

 

Slightly more than half of the 15 percent of the adult population that use mental health services have a diagnosable mental or addictive disorder (8 percent), while the remaining portion has a mental health problem (7 percent). Bearing in mind that 28 percent of the population have a diagnosable mental or substance abuse disorder, only about one-third with a diagnosable mental disorder receives treatment in 1 year. In short, this translates to the majority of those with a diagnosable mental disorder not receiving treatment.

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/ment...c7.html#overall

 

******************************************************

 

Health insurance in the United States is notoriously lacking when it comes to mental health. A person can have the greatest health insurance in the world and be limited to 25 outpatient visits for mental health or substance abuse in a year with a $10,000.00 lifetime benefit. Consequently, despite the fact that illness rates are probably similar, I can't believe that treatment rates are. The working poor have no access to mental health services since they make too much to qualify for government programs but they have no insurance. The poor have goverment programs, but they are underfunded and poorly staffed. People like me have access to services but it is extremely expensive to have a chronic mental illness - medications frequently aren't covered by prescription insurance, psychiatrists can only see you for 15 minutes, ongoing therapy is expensive if you can even find a therapist who can see you in the evening so you can keep the job you need to pay for the medications your insurance company isn't paying for.

 

That's only if you are cognizant enough to know you have a problem.

 

This is why Sabrina lives outside the Dallas Morning News building.

[CarolAnn 926]

Pooka man, there's students dropping by here and surprising their tutors with A's where they once had D's in Sociology.

 

Great stuff, damn happy I started this grim little thread now.

Glad to assist the sandal-clad plagiarists.

 

I used to teach a 10 day degree level unit just on suicide, self-harm and self-mutilation. It was a scream. Its also one of those easy subjects where people just don't get bored with the topic.

Are tattoos classed as self-mutilation?

Yes in a theoretical sense - along with piercings they count as socially acceptable forms of self-mutilation. As they are socially determined they aren't counted as self-harm or mutilation in surveys, whereas, cutting, burning, inserting sticks up the jacksie ec etc are counted. Its not a precise science!

 

My therapist always was suspicious when I would turn up with a new tattoo or piercing.

 

As a suicide survivor (three attempts - two were incompetent and one was ill-timed) and self injurer, and carrying a nice little package of bipolar disorder I for the last 23+ years, I've always been amazed at my propensity for creative pain. It served me well in childbirth when I was able to refuse all pain meds, but then it also allows me to turn around and idly draw pictures on my stomach with a utility knife or make a nice little mickey mouse background with a lit cigarette.

 

Fortunately I've managed to have that nice little personality trait under control for many years with only a few periods of emergence.