J051e Gr0ve

[Rotten Ali 599]

Moral superiority TF? No, as others have pointed out I'm down in the sewer with my Big Cs. Billy no mates, me.

You can't compare Josie Grove with Tammy Faye Messner. One has everything to live for. The other is a tired old Bible puncher with an air conditioned dog house. Weasels is too kind a word. I was thinking of worms. Go ahead, list her, then preen yourself when she dies and you move up a few notches on the DDP.

 

Godot, I'm still interested to know from what minimum age you will be self impossing or are you just grandstanding for the heck of it?

[Tuber Mirum 119]

Tempus, an emotive point of view does have a basis in logic.

 

If I had more time, I'd go into it, but it's obvious really.

 

On a different note, don't think Ali's competitive thingy quite hits the DL ethos nail on the head but each to his own I suppose.

 

Friends? Well some of us are, some aren't. It isn't obligatory.

[Windsor 2,149]

If it's a question of morality see it like this:

I am only 3 years older than her. Would you put me on your list?

 

The only question in my mind is the DDP rules.

Is it 16 and over' or over 16' in which case the starting age would be 17 this ruling dying girl out unless she survived x amount of months to her 17th Birthday.

 

PS. I still don't like Ali.

[Tempus Fugit 212]

.

[The Pooka 25]

I have a rudimentary understanding of ethics so this may be flimsy. Any choice over listing has to include consideration of whether such listing has the potential to influence her adversely. I acknowledge that listing or not makes no difference to her outcome; only to her experience of her final months. The act could hardly be benificent. But then how could it be maleficent?

 

I don't know her but can imagine that a 16 year hasn't the maturity to recognise the black humour that lies behind the DL. In fact, she is going to have her foot flat to the floor just to cope with what's ahead with her dignity intact. To find that people are betting on her death is not something that I think she'd understand or find helpful.

 

So the choice for a lister is:

 

1. risk being maleficent or non-maleficent to this person at this time

2. decide whether you give a flying F**k even if it is a potentially maleficent act

 

I am fairly sure that anyone listing her will recognise the issues of taste and decency involved .......... but in the end, they may need those points a bit more badly than others.

 

I couldn't list her myself.

[Windsor 2,149]

She's going on my list.

At the end of the day, she has brought attention to herself by not having the treatment.

 

There is also a chance that she will be listing herself on her own DDP.

[The Pooka 25]

She's going on my list.

At the end of the day, she has brought attention to herself by not having the treatment.

 

There is also a chance that she will be listing herself on her own DDP.

You are a ruthless man, Windsor. But who can begrudge you the points?

[Cowboy Ronnie 77]

I have a rudimentary understanding of ethics so this may be flimsy. Any choice over listing has to include consideration of whether such listing has the potential to influence her adversely. I acknowledge that listing or not makes no difference to her outcome; only to her experience of her final months. The act could hardly be benificent. But then how could it be maleficent?

 

I don't know her but can imagine that a 16 year hasn't the maturity to recognise the black humour that lies behind the DL. In fact, she is going to have her foot flat to the floor just to cope with what's ahead with her dignity intact. To find that people are betting on her death is not something that I think she'd understand or find helpful.

 

So the choice for a lister is:

 

1. risk being maleficent or non-maleficent to this person at this time

2. decide whether you give a flying F**k even if it is a potentially maleficent act

 

I am fairly sure that anyone listing her will recognise the issues of taste and decency involved .......... but in the end, they may need those points a bit more badly than others.

 

I couldn't list her myself.

 

Deep, TP, very deep. I like your reasoning. The bits I can understand, anyway. I don't play the DDP, but appreciate the dilemma those who do face over Josie Grave Grove. If you don't pick her, and she dies, you know plenty of others will have done so, and because she's so young it will count for lots of points. One solution would be for the DDP organisers to say under the circumstances she's not eligible for selection. Sell out? Maybe. The right thing to do?

[Windsor 2,149]

If all three Saddam folk can be counted in February, I doubt they will change the rules for her.

[honez 79]

I'm a firm supporter of the school of thought that if your pick is only famous for being terminally ill, then they shouldn't be eligible. They have to be independently B-List Celebs (or C) before they contract terminal syphillis or sillicone cancer or whatever.

I don't have much of a moral gripe either way about someone's age, but I won't be picking her for her lack of celeb status before becoming a brave little heart. I know I'll probably miss out on some decent points by the look of it, but there's simply no moral quandry for me here.

[themaninblack 2,112]

I'm a firm supporter of the school of thought that if your pick is only famous for being terminally ill, then they shouldn't be eligible. They have to be independently B-List Celebs (or C) before they contract terminal syphillis or sillicone cancer or whatever.

I don't have much of a moral gripe either way about someone's age, but I won't be picking her for her lack of celeb status before becoming a brave little heart. I know I'll probably miss out on some decent points by the look of it, but there's simply no moral quandry for me here.

 

Yes. It's a strong enough get-out clause...

[Tempus Fugit 212]

.

[football_fan 41]

When you Google Josie Grove guess which site comes out top, oh dear could be trouble.

 

Couldn't the title of the thread be amended to exclude her name.

That would be useless. From what I understand, if her name is even mentioned in the thread, it will come up on google.

 

Edit:

 

See what I mean. Instead of being the first entry on page 1, it is now the third entry on page 1.

[Tuber Mirum 119]

I've edited the topic title a bit.

 

It'd take an admin to set up the swear filter to change the name to something else. Like was done with Ma><ine.

Doesn't work retrospectively though, as far as I know.

[Paul Bearer 5,717]

I've edited the topic title a bit.

 

It'd take an admin to set up the swear filter to change the name to something else. Like was done with Ma><ine.

Doesn't work retrospectively though, as far as I know.

 

I dont think that'll work, besides, we need the ranters

[Godot 148]

Editing the name in that way makes it appear as if we have something to be ashamed about. I think we have.

 

Besides, it doesn't change anything from the Google search. Josie can and will read what we think. While most people applaud her courage she must know that here, at least, her life represents a few points in a competition where those who select her in their teams will celebrate when she dies, congratulating themselves on their skill and judgement.

 

It's all to play for Josie. Your life is just a part of our little game. Can we defend this? I can't.

[grobler 35]

well.......

I dont want to get involved in the BIG discussion as to whether she should even be a potential.....

 

 

but , she had a massive article in the Mail today(probably had lots of stufff in loads of Sunday papers)

All this stuff about "its my last Christmas" with my famliy ,,,,is all very sad....but I reckon she will do a Tomlinson , and last a little while longer yet....

 

Good luck to her.....NO HIT IN 2007...!!

[Canadian Paul 93]

Post deleted by poster.

[Godot 148]

Still the student CP so you have to write an essay. The only reason I didn't pick Hunter was that I overlooked him. My cancer ward was an experiment (which I may or may not choose to repeat).

 

I have not condemned everyone here, merely stated my views on including minors (and in my book under 18s are minors). In fact in my book you too are a minor CP and one day, when you've grown up a bit, you will know what I mean.

 

People make choices about their lives. Snooker players, like jazz trumpeters, choose to play in smoke-filled halls. College boys choose to use fancy economic terminology.

 

At least we're agreed on one thing. I too would like her to get out of her hospital bed and kick the sh*t out of you. But I think you can be assured that your sorry little arse isn't worth it. Josie Grove is bigger in every way than you or I could ever be.

[themaninblack 2,112]

When you Google Josie Grove guess which site comes out top, oh dear could be trouble.

 

Couldn't the title of the thread be amended to exclude her name.

 

Oh and I'm not too happy about having my name on a thread that I didn't start.

 

I deliberately avoided mentioning her by name in my earlier posts.

 

Hand up, my fault. As soon as I posted the topic, I considered the Google trouble we might get...

[Rotten Ali 599]

Josie Grove is bigger in every way than you or I could ever be.

 

Sorry Godot. Don't agree with this last bit in the least. Because it comes down to what limited time we all have left and the potential to do what we want with it. Taking a leap into the unknown changes the mundane lifeplan we hold to for better or worse. How can you say in broad brush strokes that a regular contributor to this forum could never be bigger in any way with some one who has just made a life style choice (all-be it a huge one in that of not fighting a terminal illness) since using ones full life and energy to do wonderful good for others (Jane Tomlinson) could very much be much more news worthy and noted as being "bigger" in any number of ways.

 

Now what I would hope for is that brave young Josie would reverse her decision to have these painful treatments and continue to fight for her life and those of others suffering using her new found fame to raise funds to cure these cancers.

 

No matter what happens in the future I do wish her well, and hope she uses her energies wisely with grace.

[Godot 148]

Josie Grove is bigger in every way than you or I could ever be.

 

How can you say in broad brush strokes that a regular contributor to this forum could never be bigger in any way with some one who has just made a life style choice (all-be it a huge one in that of not fighting a terminal illness) since using ones full life and energy to do wonderful good for others (Jane Tomlinson) could very much be much more news worthy and noted as being "bigger" in any number of ways.

 

 

I guess my comments were based on what I have read from CP and what I know of myself. I've read through the arguments you have been making and understand where you (and others) are coming from. I'm not arguing with the logic, but with the morality (or absence of it) behind that logic.

 

It's the moral escapism of the SS who believed that by taking a uniform and swearing an oath they were absolved from moral judgements because, when they shot, gassed or hanged a trainload of Jews, they were taking an objective stance (obeying orders), playing by the rules to which they subscribed when they joined.

 

I'm sure there were SS men who felt somewhat uneasy about the things that they did but the rules and codes that governed their behaviour were sufficiently straightforward for them to defray their guilt. Their collective solidarity enabled them to absolve themselves of their crimes. For the SS too, deaths earned kudos such as promotion and medals. Points win prizes in many walks of life.

[Canadian Paul 93]

After thinking about it for a while, I don't care enough about this to defend it. I think Godot and I agree in theory, but our practical interpretations differ. I really don't care. List her. Don't. I don't care. I don't want to be associated with this so publicly.

[Windsor 2,149]

Why don't you lot get off your high horses. Your making a big deal about nothing.

 

Boo hoo - she's 16 and she's dying. sh*t happens.

 

She's made herself famous by choosing to not have any treatment. To further this she has now sold herself out to the press.

 

Just because she is dying, it does not make her any better than me or anyone else for that matter. Some people really go far while trying to take the moral highground.

 

No need for essays. No need for passionate pleas. Put her on or leave her off your DDPs - your choice. She does not qualify for the DL so its not really an issue here. She does qualify for the DDP thus it's the players choice.

 

Now good day!

 

PS. If I get cancer does that make me better than everyone else?

[Canadian Paul 93]

Why don't you lot get off your high horses. Your making a big deal about nothing.

 

Great minds think alike eh?

 

I really don't care about this enough to make any more of a deal about it. As you were typing this, I've deleted (but saved) my previous posts on the subject for my own personal reflection.