Wrestlers/actors

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

Comprehensive article in today's Sun about the multitudes of the wrestling dead.

 

The article mentions the famous Von Erich wrestling family, three of the six Von Erich brothers committed suicide, one died in childhood and the other died of drug overdose - one brother, Kevin Von Erich, is still alive...

 

 

Would he pass the famousness test? ... for 2008?

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Just noticed...

 

I think this is the most viewed thread after Dicky O

 

Will keep you up on the sordid necrophillia happenings of Benoit, though, as I still don't like the way he was with the corpses for so long...

 

Chris'll Fix It, Chris'll Fix It for you, and you and you...

[MyBrainHurts2 4]

Can't remember which article I was reading regarding the Benoit murder/suicide, but anabolic steroids were found at his home but his last steroid test in April was negative. a handful of legally obtained prescriptions were found as well. Toxicology reports are pending.

 

What can I say, I'm curious if it really was 'roid rage.

 

I still think Superstar Billy Graham (not to be confused with the evangelist) has a better shot at passing than Rowdy Roddy.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Can't remember which article I was reading regarding the Benoit murder/suicide, but anabolic steroids were found at his home but his last steroid test in April was negative. a handful of legally obtained prescriptions were found as well. Toxicology reports are pending.

 

What can I say, I'm curious if it really was 'roid rage.

 

I still think Superstar Billy Graham (not to be confused with the evangelist) has a better shot at passing than Rowdy Roddy.

 

The tests were carried out by the WWE, however...

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

I always thought Benoit was a pill popper. I mean as I said when I first heard I thought it could have been from the result of an overdose or a heart attack caused by these body diminishing drugs.

 

isn't pretty much every wrestler on steroids? It's why they're always a decent DL candidate. There has been a curiously high number of (mainly American) professional athletes, in various sports, who have dropped dead around age 40, e.g. Reggie White, Florence Griffith Joyner, Kirby Puckett, Ken Caminiti, Mike Webster, Lyle Alazdo.

 

From some wrestling website (I'd heard of some, Dr. H probably knows more of these):

 

"Big Boss Man - dead at 42 - heart attack?

Hercules Hernandez - dead early forties - heart attack

Jerry Tuite "The Wall" - dead at 36 - heart attack

Moondog Spot - dead at 40 - heart attack

Crash Holly - dead at 34 - cause unknown - possible heart attack

 

others who died way too young because of steroids, heart attacks (related to steroids?) pain killers overdose, drug overdose, Curt Hennig, Davey Boy Smith, Big Dick Dudley, Bam Bam Terry Gordy, Yokozuna, Bobby Duncan Jr., Rick Rude, the Renegade, Crusher Blackwell, Big John Stud and on and on....."

 

Not to suggest all of the above were on steroids, but some definitely were. Sports karma comes to roost once again...

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

My favourite footy site is also getting exercised about dead wrestlers. Starts with a post listing a load of early deaths.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

To be fair, it's not just what they take but what they push their bodies to.

 

Something like 300 days a year on the road.

 

And it's not just performance enhancers...as one former wrestler roughly said...once you're on all the painkillers that keep you going, you take speed to get up for the match, then downers to sleep, then coke to wake up and it just goes round and round.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Just quick update.

 

There are starting to be suggestions from the investigators that he killed his seven-year-old son, who may or may not have been slightly mentally-retarded, with his wrestling finishing move...

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Obviously a good move then.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Obviously a good move then.

 

It's pretty odd to watch him do the wrestling (ie fake) version of the crippler crossface on youtube now, to be fair!

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

For those who like their clips

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

 

[MyBrainHurts2 4]

Dr. H....that's just friggin' priceless.

 

On the drive to work this morning, I heard that needle marks were found on Benoit's son, who was cited as being a little small for his age and was possibly being given growth hormones. They might've come from daddy's stash.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Dr. H....that's just friggin' priceless.

 

On the drive to work this morning, I heard that needle marks were found on Benoit's son, who was cited as being a little small for his age and was possibly being given growth hormones. They might've come from daddy's stash.

 

Turns out that Benoit's son had Fragile X sydrome, and that causes mental retardation. Also was very small for his size.

 

Lots of odd things here though...

[Banshees Scream 110]

The more I look at Benoit the more I see an anxiety orientated dwarf.

 

The basics of this discussion is that Chris Benoit was a pill popper, yes those drugs that make hearts fail and organs deteriorate (Not to mention something else steroids can do to a guys body)

 

He had a rabid steroid pussy fit and straggled his wife with a TV cord and then practiced a similar kill maneuver with his seven year old son.

 

After two murders, he walked his steroid pumped body down to his damp-morbid-steroid cabinet-dark-weight decorated basement, which is where he tied a rope around his neck and did a little hop off his Chuck Norris

bench press machine.

 

My conclusion to this story is that you don't have to be a dwarf in size, to be a dwarf in general. Chris Benoit's motives were of a dwarf, a pathetic little dwarf who had to tug on everyones jeans to get a little recognition. The sad part is this guy was a millionaire, he was trained by the great Stu Hart, he was a wrestling star and he threw it all away.

 

Maybe he will live again, under the name Critter Chris. At Canada's most famous circus.

[Monoclinic 39]

Dwarfist now as well?

 

Does this list ever cease?

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

I've been reading a lot on this, perhaps far too much(!), and some things are starting to fall together.

 

It turns out his seven-year-old son Daniel had a condition known as Fragile X, which can cause mental retardation and also explains his diminutive stature. Perhaps the reason it seems Benoit was injecting his kid with growth hormone.

 

Anyway, Benoit's wife had neck problems and apparently was having trouble looking after the kid on her own while he was on the road 300-odd days a year wrestling. She apparently asked him to cut down slightly so he could help.

 

They had a volatile relationship - she filed for divorce and a restraining order a few years ago but subsequently withdrew both. Apparently, she recently discussed it again and wanted to take the kid with her.

 

At this point, it is thought Benoit decided to kill her. He could have just "snapped" as such, as he tied her hands and legs together. Though he may have snapped at this point because it's thought after he killed her, he smashed her head repeatedly against the floor.

 

At this point he seems to have realised what he had done, or at least over the next few hours. At this point he realises he's going down, and doesn't want his son to be raised by anyone else. So he goes into his son's room and applies a choke hold, possibly a variation of his crippler crossface finisher, and kills him.

 

Possibly just before or after this point is when he put the Bibles next to the bodies.

 

Then, after some deliberation (and perhaps a bottle of wine, he was of French-Canadian descent after all, and an empty bottle was apparently found) he made sure his "guard dogs" were locked away safely and sent texts so that people would find the bodies sooner than later.

 

Then he killed himself by tying a pulley to his weights, and dropping 240 pounds around his neck.

[MyBrainHurts2 4]

It's better than I could phrase the events. I'm behind the idea that the Bibles were placed after the fact, sign of guilt and remorse. Killing himself was a 'no other way out' of the situation at hand. Just one man's opinion.

[Brinsworth House Baiter 12]

Hacky,

 

Having read your post & various bits in the press about the prevalence of steroid/ drug taking in the sport, do you think there will be any long term damage to American wrestling's popularity in the long run due to the resulting publicity?

 

The fact that he was such a role model & hero to young boys & then killed his own son must surely deliver an almighty blow to wrestling's image & public perception, but do you think it will be enough to actually cause any lasting harm?

 

This whole saga really does hold a horribly grim & morbid fascination even to a non-wrestling fan such as me. I'm trying to equate it with a Premiership footballer doing the same thing, but it's all just too ghastly to think about it for too long.

 

I can't believe I just used the word 'ghastly.' That's ghastly in itself.

 

Cheers,

 

BHB

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Im not too sure, on this side of the Atlantic, just what the perception of American Wrestling actually is.

Despite the fact that the average wrestler is supremely fit, agile, powerful and regulary gets hurt, seriously at times, the fact is its fake.

A modern day Gladatorial circus of steriod enhanced gargantuans " doing battle" in the arena infront of thousands of fans baying for, and at times getting, blood.

Money and favour must surely be channelled into the right pockets for how can a "sport" so plagued with drug abuse and premature death appear to pull its socks up and carry on regardless after yet another tragedy without the authorities putting it all under the most severe scrutiny.

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Despite the fact that the average wrestler is supremely fit, agile, powerful and regulary gets hurt, seriously at times, the fact is its fake.

 

I'd agree with most of that, but to use the old saying, I wouldn't use the word "fake"...

 

Pre-determined, sure; scripted, sure. As are films and television shows. Actors, playing characters, working to script.

 

Are they "fake"? Are the Royal Shakespeare company fake because the actors who play Romeo and Juliet don't actually die on stage?

 

It's no coincidence that the one remaning wrestling federation with any real global force is the WWE, formerly WWF, that in the 1980s stopped trying to convince viewers that people were going to get hurt every night.

 

It carried on in the US South for years - heck, I even read a joke that if "Cowboy" Bill Watts had have been if the recent Vince McMahon carbombing angle. he would have actually died to protect kayfabe!

 

But no, it's what Vince McMahon himself coined in the 1980s - Sports Entertainment. Heck, WWE is even called Sports Entertainment.

 

It's not really different from having "Football Entertainment" for example, where all matches would be won 20-19 with the winner coming from 100 yards in the last second. Sure, it wouldn't be a real sport, but everyone would know that - it would only be fake if nobody knew the outcome was predetermined.

 

And would anyone fancy putting on a show all around the world, being on the road 300 days a year? No. So is it surprising that many take a "helping hand" to help them deal with the schedule. All it takes is one slip and someone is paralysed - and it does happen.

 

So are they athletes? No. Are they actors? No. Are they stuntmen? No.

 

So what are they? Well, professional wrestlers. It's impossible to shoehorn them into any other category. And if they are being classified as professional wrestlers, people who put on shows set to scripts for the purpose of entertaining, how can they be faking anyone?

 

***

 

Oh, and Brinsworth House - good to see you! I'll get back to your question later!

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Dear Doctor,

Romeo and Juliet not dying on stage?!?

Yes I can see where you are coming from. You are, quite right in what you say.

Do you feel that, after this latest horror, the whole of the Wrestling fraternity will be put under "official" pressure to address the obvious problems?

BHB made reference to a similar scenario happening to a Premiership Footballer.

TBH I think that just the one death/murder(s) until similar circustances would cause such a furore in the British Press/Media that the powers that be would be forced to act, even if what they decided to do was seen to be inadequate.

Thanks Doc, you have enlightened me!

Regards

LFN

[Dr Hackenslash 25]

Dear Doctor,

Romeo and Juliet not dying on stage?!?

Yes I can see where you are coming from. You are, quite right in what you say.

Do you feel that, after this latest horror, the whole of the Wrestling fraternity will be put under "official" pressure to address the obvious problems?

BHB made reference to a similar scenario happening to a Premiership Footballer.

TBH I think that just the one death/murder(s) until similar circustances would cause such a furore in the British Press/Media that the powers that be would be forced to act, even if what they decided to do was seen to be inadequate.

Thanks Doc, you have enlightened me!

Regards

LFN

 

Well, to answer both this and BHB's question, it's hard to compare to Premiership football.

 

In football, it would only take one case, as you suggest, I'm sure. But in the shadowy world of professional wrestling, the regulations are lapse due to what I'd said about it being in a non-clearly defined area between sports, acting and stunts.

 

In the Premiership, the clubs are the employers of the players while the league take control of drugs testing, etc, whereas in the WWE (and that pretty much is wrestling now) they are the employer and the controller of the whole thing.

 

They have to test and, while I wouldn't dare say it happens (for the sake of my bank balance for one, if they had a top-performer doing six shows a week and attracting far more fans than anyone else who was caught with something in their system, would they suspend them?

 

If Chelsea had a player who was scoring three a game and the tests found that player with something in them, the club wouldn't want to see their player suspended, but because the club don't conduct the tests they have no say in it (inciidentally, I seem to recall Chelsea actually getting into quite serious trouble for conducting their own, in-house tests a whle back).

 

And really this isn't about steroids, in my opinion, because if every wrestler who was "on the gas" snapped like Benoit did, then there would be almost no wrestlers.

 

Not that I care about the media going on about the steroid issue because it needs to be looked at properly and if misguided witch-hunts and finger pointing is what it takes, then so be it. If that saves one life at some point, then it's all for the best.

 

It's not just steroids, it's the whole lifestyle. The recreational drugs, the women, the drinking, the ridiculous amount of time on the road, the jet-lag, etc, etc..

 

And, at the end of the day, just look a page or so back at how many young wrestlers have died. It's the same (roughly, I think) as a few Premiership footballers dying per season. Something would be done if that happened.

 

The WWE are in for a rough ride, steroids or not, because of their trial. Vince McMahon himself was put on trial and accused of all sorts by the Federal Government in the 1990s (92/93-ish) but was eventually acquited.

 

It's interested to look at around that time. WWF, as it was then, went from the Hulk Hogan-sized wrestlers to the Bret Hart and Shawn Michael's sized, smaller wrestlers. But that swung around again.

 

Other investigations will also stem from this, they'll find pharmacists numbers at Benoit's place and then names of wrestlers and it could spiral out of control.

 

This isn't about steroids, but if it takes all this media malarky to get the wrestling scene looked at throughly, rather than ignored because it isn't "respectable" and treated like a backstreet carnival act, then good.

 

Though it is also important to remember that, ignoring the job Benoit did, what happened was shocking.

[harrymcnallysblueandwhitearmy 1,689]

Well, to answer both this and BHB's question, it's hard to compare to Premiership football.

 

Yes it is, because football is a sport and wrestling is a piece of theatre. While I have no quarrel with wrestling's right to exist and entertain, Chris Benoit has/had more in common with David Lee Roth than David Beckham.

 

The last few days in this thread have been most interesting however, and I'm glad I now know what kayfabe is. I believe soap operas work on a similar principle.

 

Right, I'm off to start that yachting thread.

[CarolAnn 926]

It is a soap opera. That's the basis.

 

As a youngster I followed along with the Von Erich brothers in the Dallas Sportatorium (a terrific old arena which sadly was torn down in 2003 following vacancy and a fire) I can say that most of the people who were there with me were more interested in the storyline than in the "wrestling."

 

Of course, I was interested in rear views of Kevin and Kerry Von Erich.

 

Hey - I was a teenage girl.

 

I have always felt very sorry for Kevin - he lost all his brothers, three by suicide. His parents are gone. He's only 50.