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the_engineer

Conspiracy Theories

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On 23/02/2024 at 06:03, TQR said:

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On the vaccines thing.

 

Ah, how we used to take what we were given, whether you liked it or not.

 

I've always wondered, I mean, you get all those MMR, tuberculosis, polio vaccines when you are really young and literally never get them again. Why is that?

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59 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

I've always wondered, I mean, you get all those MMR, tuberculosis, polio vaccines when you are really young and literally never get them again. Why is that?

It depends, some of them you get and don't need again because you're body builds up long lasting immunity, whereas others you are meant to have boosters for, for example tetanus you're meant to have every 5-10 years. Last time I had any non-Covid vaccines was when I was about 13 or 14 and it was tetanus and the final MMR booster or something like that. Basically it depends on the strength of the illness you're being protected against and effectiveness of the vaccine.

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On 27/02/2024 at 20:02, YoungWillz said:

On the vaccines thing.

 

Ah, how we used to take what we were given, whether you liked it or not.

 

I've always wondered, I mean, you get all those MMR, tuberculosis, polio vaccines when you are really young and literally never get them again. Why is that?

 

Just wanted to clarify,I'm anti COVID vaccine not anti vaccine, my 3 children have had all the scheduled vaccinations. There's many legitimate reasons I and many others distrust the COVID vaccine. It's experimental, there's no long term safety data, it's a new type of treatment mRNA vaccines and we don't know the long term consequences, it has bits of hiv virus in it, it needs to trick your immune system to get past it clearly. They said it was safe it isn't it's killed and injured people and that's a fact and it increases the risk of developing other diseases. It's not effective otherwise you wouldn't need a regular "top up" . Has the vaccine really saved anyone? Excess deaths have increased not dropped and the countries with lower vaccine uptake have lower excess deaths than the countries with higher COVID vaccine uptake.

 

Yes the polio vaccine and the BCG is effective and safe. Though some what people would label "conspiracy theorists" say polio only came about because of the lack of nutrition, bad chemicals in food and bad sanitation.Polio was declining before they introduced the vaccine. I however accept others views on that but I disagree. 

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1 hour ago, the_engineer said:

 

Just wanted to clarify,I'm anti COVID vaccine not anti vaccine, my 3 children have had all the scheduled vaccinations. There's many legitimate reasons I and many others distrust the COVID vaccine. It's experimental, there's no long term safety data, it's a new type of treatment mRNA vaccines and we don't know the long term consequences, it has bits of hiv virus in it, it needs to trick your immune system to get past it clearly. They said it was safe it isn't it's killed and injured people and that's a fact and it increases the risk of developing other diseases. It's not effective otherwise you wouldn't need a regular "top up" . Has the vaccine really saved anyone? Excess deaths have increased not dropped and the countries with lower vaccine uptake have lower excess deaths than the countries with higher COVID vaccine uptake.

 

Yes the polio vaccine and the BCG is effective and safe. Though some what people would label "conspiracy theorists" say polio only came about because of the lack of nutrition, bad chemicals in food and bad sanitation.Polio was declining before they introduced the vaccine. I however accept others views on that but I disagree. 

1. There were plans to include the HIV virus in the recipe for the vaccine, those plans never went through. Even if they did go through, it wouldn't mean anything. Vaccines are chemical compounds and just because HIV on its own is dangerous doesn't mean the overall compound would be. Take chlorine for example, on its own it will kill you and yet when it's diluted into water for swimming pools it is safe, that's just how chemistry works.

 

2. It is a fact that people have been injured by the Covid vaccine, however that's the same for all medicine. Penicillin is widely used but some people are allergic to it and will have negative reactions, the amount of people who have been actually injured by the vaccine is minute in comparison to the amount of people who took it. However there are many who have pretend to be injured by the vaccine and some who have believed conspiracy theories to the extent they have started to experience placebo symptoms, such as those videos that go viral on Facebook where people claim to be experiencing serious tremors as a result (claims that have been debunked and are quite easily disprovable).

 

3. The claim that the vaccine is directly linked to increased deaths is a theory, and not a scientifically backed one. It is true that since the pandemic there has been an increase in deaths due to heart problems and the like, but the vaccine is one of the less likely theories. The long term effects of the virus itself, the increased obesity rate (people didn't get much exercise during the pandemic) and the cost of living (and by extension eating health) are all things that are more likely than the vaccine. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

 

4. There are various different vaccines that require 'top ups', with the COVID vaccine, because it is so new the most effective preventative measure will take time to be found, and short term immunity is the best that can be got at this time. Also like other viruses (eg flu) Covid evolves and vaccines require updating in order to continue being effective.

 

5. The vaccine has saved people, my mum is in her late 50s and was vaccinated, she caught the virus a few months later and was sick, but not badly, despite having asthma. At the same time one of my mum's friends (same age, same lifestyle, same build, but not asthmatic) caught the virus, however she hadn't been vaccinated and as a result spent 2 weeks in intensive care on a breathing machine, and is by all accounts lucky to be alive.

 

6. I haven't seen statistics supporting or disproving what you've said about the correlation between vaccine uptake and deaths. However if I were to take an educated guess I'd argue that the countries with lower vaccine uptake are typically the poorer nations that lack the industrialisation of places like the US and the UK. As a result of that the virus would have a harder time spreading and consequently less people would have been infected and died. The infection rate was higher in the west and in more (densely) populated countries, which would support what I have just said. Again coloration doesn't equal causation.

 

7. The pandemic is primarily in the past, in my opinion, the vaccine has helped towards that. If you chose not the have the vaccine, that is your decision and as much as I think you are wrong, you shouldn't have to take it if you don't want to. I'm exposed to vaccine 'conspiracies' on a daily basis, it is something I've become quite used to countering and whilst I think scepticism is always a good thing, these sort of beliefs can lead to darker, more dangerous places (which is something I've witness firsthand), so whilst I don't necessarily expect you to support everything I've just written, I would advise caution when researching this subject.

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2 hours ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

1. There were plans to include the HIV virus in the recipe for the vaccine, those plans never went through. Even if they did go through, it wouldn't mean anything. Vaccines are chemical compounds and just because HIV on its own is dangerous doesn't mean the overall compound would be. Take chlorine for example, on its own it will kill you and yet when it's diluted into water for swimming pools it is safe, that's just how chemistry works.

 

2. It is a fact that people have been injured by the Covid vaccine, however that's the same for all medicine. Penicillin is widely used but some people are allergic to it and will have negative reactions, the amount of people who have been actually injured by the vaccine is minute in comparison to the amount of people who took it. However there are many who have pretend to be injured by the vaccine and some who have believed conspiracy theories to the extent they have started to experience placebo symptoms, such as those videos that go viral on Facebook where people claim to be experiencing serious tremors as a result (claims that have been debunked and are quite easily disprovable).

 

3. The claim that the vaccine is directly linked to increased deaths is a theory, and not a scientifically backed one. It is true that since the pandemic there has been an increase in deaths due to heart problems and the like, but the vaccine is one of the less likely theories. The long term effects of the virus itself, the increased obesity rate (people didn't get much exercise during the pandemic) and the cost of living (and by extension eating health) are all things that are more likely than the vaccine. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

 

4. There are various different vaccines that require 'top ups', with the COVID vaccine, because it is so new the most effective preventative measure will take time to be found, and short term immunity is the best that can be got at this time. Also like other viruses (eg flu) Covid evolves and vaccines require updating in order to continue being effective.

 

5. The vaccine has saved people, my mum is in her late 50s and was vaccinated, she caught the virus a few months later and was sick, but not badly, despite having asthma. At the same time one of my mum's friends (same age, same lifestyle, same build, but not asthmatic) caught the virus, however she hadn't been vaccinated and as a result spent 2 weeks in intensive care on a breathing machine, and is by all accounts lucky to be alive.

 

6. I haven't seen statistics supporting or disproving what you've said about the correlation between vaccine uptake and deaths. However if I were to take an educated guess I'd argue that the countries with lower vaccine uptake are typically the poorer nations that lack the industrialisation of places like the US and the UK. As a result of that the virus would have a harder time spreading and consequently less people would have been infected and died. The infection rate was higher in the west and in more (densely) populated countries, which would support what I have just said. Again coloration doesn't equal causation.

 

7. The pandemic is primarily in the past, in my opinion, the vaccine has helped towards that. If you chose not the have the vaccine, that is your decision and as much as I think you are wrong, you shouldn't have to take it if you don't want to. I'm exposed to vaccine 'conspiracies' on a daily basis, it is something I've become quite used to countering and whilst I think scepticism is always a good thing, these sort of beliefs can lead to darker, more dangerous places (which is something I've witness firsthand), so whilst I don't necessarily expect you to support everything I've just written, I would advise caution when researching this subject.

 

Thanks for the response it's a good and considered one. I've always said I hope I'm wrong about the vaccine as about 20/30 closest relatives have taken it. God bless.

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