Grim Reaper 186 Posted December 31, 2012 In March 2012, Bob Hawke quoted as saying "Gough is not in good shape"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death Impends 7,963 Posted January 1, 2013 Really surprised he's still around, I'd have expected him to pull a Callaghan. Feels like one of the dead certs to die among this list to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,571 Posted January 7, 2013 I must admit this is someone who I am only aware of from discussions on this forum. Was he well liked down under? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) I must admit this is someone who I am only aware of from discussions on this forum. Was he well liked down under? He was the only PM to ever be sacked... He was before my time but he was a polarising figure. The majority opinion seems to be he had a lot of extremely good ideas that he tried to implement too quickly and his inept ministers bungled most of them. On thd other hand, there is a persistent rumour, reinstated most recently by the likes of John Pilger and Jean Bricmont, that the CIA played a part in the sacking of the Whitlam government as he was too anti-US for their liking... To put it in British terms, imagine an alternative history in which Wilson had bungled the finances and the budget had been blocked so Heath put pressure on and the Queen caved in and dismissed the Wilson government, triggering a fresh election which Heath wins convincingly, possibly with the blessing of the CIA and you can imagine how controversial the Whitlam dismissal was. By the way, Gough's immigration minister, Al Grassby, just happened to be a member of the Calabrian Mafia... Edited January 8, 2013 by Magere Hein Three posts merged. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,571 Posted January 8, 2013 I must admit this is someone who I am only aware of from discussions on this forum. Was he well liked down under? He was the only PM to ever be sacked... He was before my time but he was a polarising figure. The majority opinion seems to be he had a lot of extremely good ideas that he tried to implement too quickly and his inept ministers bungled most of them. On thd other hand, there is a persistent rumour, reinstated most recently by the likes of John Pilger and Jean Bricmont, that the CIA played a part in the sacking of the Whitlam government as he was too anti-US for their liking... To put it in British terms, imagine an alternative history in which Wilson had bungled the finances and the budget had been blocked so Heath put pressure on and the Queen caved in and dismissed the Wilson government, triggering a fresh election which Heath wins convincingly, possibly with the blessing of the CIA and you can imagine how controversial the Whitlam dismissal was. By the way, Gough's immigration minister, Al Grassby, just happened to be a member of the Calabrian Mafia... I now feel much better informed. Thank You DJL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted January 8, 2013 I predict his death by the end of march Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JR976evil 906 Posted January 8, 2013 I predict his death by the end of march I predict you'll still be talking bollocks by the end of march Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death Impends 7,963 Posted January 8, 2013 Going by what DJL said on Whitlam I'd say the US President who comes to mind the most is Grant. Mostly on the merit Grant is regarded as well intentioned - albeit not politically experienced - with, like Whitlam, a lousy cabinet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,438 Posted January 8, 2013 Not a fan of many Australian leaders, but Whitlam comes across as one of the better ones, even with his shortened term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted January 8, 2013 I must admit this is someone who I am only aware of from discussions on this forum. Was he well liked down under? He was the only PM to ever be sacked... He was before my time but he was a polarising figure. The majority opinion seems to be he had a lot of extremely good ideas that he tried to implement too quickly and his inept ministers bungled most of them. On thd other hand, there is a persistent rumour, reinstated most recently by the likes of John Pilger and Jean Bricmont, that the CIA played a part in the sacking of the Whitlam government as he was too anti-US for their liking... To put it in British terms, imagine an alternative history in which Wilson had bungled the finances and the budget had been blocked so Heath put pressure on and the Queen caved in and dismissed the Wilson government, triggering a fresh election which Heath wins convincingly, possibly with the blessing of the CIA and you can imagine how controversial the Whitlam dismissal was. By the way, Gough's immigration minister, Al Grassby, just happened to be a member of the Calabrian Mafia... I now feel much better informed. Thank You DJL on the Whitlam dismissal and subsequent constitutional crisis. "Well may we say "God Save the Queen" BECAUSE NOTHING WILL SAVE THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL!!!" The fact that Sir John Kerr was a total alcoholic didn't help his public image but, as Governor-General, his decision to sack the government must have had QE2's blessing... For those interested in Al Grassby's Mafia associations, here are some links: "Mr. Bruce Provost, a retired National Crime Authority senior investigator, has recently indicated that he had no doubt that the Whitlam government Minister was paid to commit crimes and do favours for Calabrian Mafia members operating in Australia and that the National Crime Authority bowed to political pressure not to fully investigate his Mafia links. He indicated that there had been more than enough intelligence on Mr. Grassby to warrant a full-scale investigation but that he had been held back by the N.C.A. A Herald Sun report indicated... a Mafia supergrass identified Mr. Grassby as being at the beck and call of Calabrian crime heads." http://www.nationalo..._winter_ed1.htm http://www.crikey.co...ble-dirty-life/ http://en.wikipedia....t_media_reports http://en.wikipedia....s_campaigner%29 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charon 4,943 Posted January 8, 2013 His wife is more likely, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted January 8, 2013 His wife is more likely, no? Margaret Whitlam? She died last year... Here is an article, albeit written by a member of Whitlam's own party, talking about the good and bad legacies he left: http://www.themonthl...say-tanner-3477 Abolishing conscription, trying to get out of the Vietnam mess, making uni education free (those days are now long gone), increasing arts funding and being the first government (in the western world, I think) to recognise China's communist government as legitimate rulers and start to build trade relations with them are the good things for which he will be remembered. Most people would say the multi-cultural policies introduced in his era have done more good than harm too. Generally speaking with the arts flourishing, people say it was the most liberal time in Post-WW2 Australian history, much more so than today. For instance, nudity was permitted on prime time television, which would cause a backlash in our more conservative country today, as well as glam rock bands like Skyhooks performing in drag and relatively edgy playwrights like David Williamson flourished back then so there was apparently a cultural confidence that was part of that brief zeitgeist. This was probably because Whitlam was the first non-conservative leader since 1949. Trashing the economy and putting in place a completely moronic tax system that crippled many families are some of the bad things. The tax system was only fixed when a GST (Aussie equivalent of VAT) was introduced well over 20 years later. Another controversial achievement was introducing Family Law courts to make divorces easier and leading to current issues around custody battles and so on. That was probably another good idea that was badly implemented. As the article states "The Whitlam government was often amateurish, and generally naive about the strength of the social and political forces arrayed against it, and occasionally misguided on crucial issues. Yet the true test of its significance lies in the resilience of so many of the fundamental changes it made." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalmonMousse 25 Posted January 9, 2013 The fact that Sir John Kerr was a total alcoholic didn't help his public image but, as Governor-General, his decision to sack the government must have had QE2's blessing... No article says QE2 gave Kerr the confidence to act as he saw fit. V different from giving her blessing for his actions which would be a huge constitutional no no. All a power play by Fraser which a weak GG fell for. good summary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted January 9, 2013 The fact that Sir John Kerr was a total alcoholic didn't help his public image but, as Governor-General, his decision to sack the government must have had QE2's blessing... No article says QE2 gave Kerr the confidence to act as he saw fit. V different from giving her blessing for his actions which would be a huge constitutional no no. All a power play by Fraser which a weak GG fell for. good summary Yes, I don't know. Surely she knew what he would do when she gave him the confidence to act as he saw fit. She didn't try to rein him in at all. She was never going to directly say "go and sack him" though; that wasn't what I meant and there would be a huge backlash if it leaked she was interfering in politics like that. I suppose she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. I agree most of it was a powerplay by Fraser though and obviously no GG has used the reserve powers since given the furore it caused at the time. Are you an Aussie too, Salmon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalmonMousse 25 Posted January 9, 2013 The fact that Sir John Kerr was a total alcoholic didn't help his public image but, as Governor-General, his decision to sack the government must have had QE2's blessing... No article says QE2 gave Kerr the confidence to act as he saw fit. V different from giving her blessing for his actions which would be a huge constitutional no no. All a power play by Fraser which a weak GG fell for. good summary Yes, I don't know. Surely she knew what he would do when she gave him the confidence to act as he saw fit. She didn't try to rein him in at all. She was never going to directly say "go and sack him" though; that wasn't what I meant and there would be a huge backlash if it leaked she was interfering in politics like that. I suppose she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. I agree most of it was a powerplay by Fraser though and obviously no GG has used the reserve powers since given the furore it caused at the time. Are you an Aussie too, Salmon? pom living in the shaky isles so close Yes palace backed into a corner, all they could do is advise and counsel and warn which are trad roles of GG as far as parliament and the PM is concerned. GGs only supposed to use reserve power in times of political crises ie to ensure continuity of administration. Weak and pitiful GGs need very good advisers if they are not to end up another Kerr. We studied this when looking at the roles and powers of GGs on my LLB. Fraser came out stinking. Worrying thing would be the twit Charles, he likes interfering. Weak GG + Charles + minor political crises = trouble Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted January 9, 2013 The fact that Sir John Kerr was a total alcoholic didn't help his public image but, as Governor-General, his decision to sack the government must have had QE2's blessing... No article says QE2 gave Kerr the confidence to act as he saw fit. V different from giving her blessing for his actions which would be a huge constitutional no no. All a power play by Fraser which a weak GG fell for. good summary Yes, I don't know. Surely she knew what he would do when she gave him the confidence to act as he saw fit. She didn't try to rein him in at all. She was never going to directly say "go and sack him" though; that wasn't what I meant and there would be a huge backlash if it leaked she was interfering in politics like that. I suppose she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. I agree most of it was a powerplay by Fraser though and obviously no GG has used the reserve powers since given the furore it caused at the time. Are you an Aussie too, Salmon? pom living in the shaky isles so close Yes palace backed into a corner, all they could do is advise and counsel and warn which are trad roles of GG as far as parliament and the PM is concerned. GGs only supposed to use reserve power in times of political crises ie to ensure continuity of administration. Weak and pitiful GGs need very good advisers if they are not to end up another Kerr. We studied this when looking at the roles and powers of GGs on my LLB. Fraser came out stinking. Worrying thing would be the twit Charles, he likes interfering. Weak GG + Charles + minor political crises = trouble Yes, the fact that the reserve powers aren't defined either is troubling. However, given the furore last time, I don't think even a weak GG would try this again. I wasn't born back then and I haven't studied the era but, yes, Fraser manipulated things from what I understand and it could well have backfired and even caused actual violence on the streets. I have a slightly higher opinion of Charles than most people - he seems to have matured a bit in recent years and Camilla may actually have been a stabilising force for him - but, yes, I know about those memos leaked to the press showing Charles' interference. If he decides to be more openly politically active after the Queen's relatively benign reign, things could very well go awry. If nothing else, after such a long reign by QE2 who has done much to reinforce the notion that a monarch should be non-partisan, a new and interfering monarch would be a shock to the system. EDIT: Here is a starting point for exploring the idea that the CIA were involved: http://en.wikipedia....ristopher_Boyce EDIT 2: Found this piece by the journalist, Jane Lanbrook. Also, here are Part 2 and Part 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted January 11, 2013 Congrats to Gough on his half birthday .He is 96 and a half years old today. I'm just noting this date because I don't expect him to reach his 97th b irthday (wishful thinking) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest steve smith Posted February 20, 2013 yes happy half birthday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted February 22, 2013 Gough might still be clinging on but Bill Morrison who was defence minister in his cabinet has died at 84 http://www.smh.com.a...0219-2epj2.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted March 17, 2013 Mrs Whitlam died a year ago today.Maybe grief wil get the better of him and he'll join her before the days out.I'm not holding my breath though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted May 17, 2013 Gough Whitlam was sacked by GG Kerr for being incompetant,permission from HRH.I saw the sacking live on TV, shame HRH won't give orders to sack the present PM, who was not elected, but deposed the elected PM Rudd,she will be ousted next election, mark my words, a more hated PM i have never seen. Gough is getting on now and hes in a home, his wife died last year Marget, they did not have any children.He was a Labor PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted May 17, 2013 Gough Whitlam was sacked by GG Kerr for being incompetant,permission from HRH.I saw the sacking live on TV, shame HRH won't give orders to sack the present PM, who was not elected, but deposed the elected PM Rudd,she will be ousted next election, mark my words, a more hated PM i have never seen. Gough is getting on now and hes in a home, his wife died last year Marget, they did not have any children.He was a Labor PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted May 17, 2013 Gough Whitlam was sacked by GG Kerr for being incompetant,permission from HRH.I saw the sacking live on TV, shame HRH won't give orders to sack the present PM, who was not elected, but deposed the elected PM Rudd,she will be ousted next election, mark my words, a more hated PM i have never seen. Gough is getting on now and hes in a home, his wife died last year Marget, they did not have any children.He was a Labor PM. I know all this.Please let us know when he's died. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIP Wee Jum 1,559 Posted May 17, 2013 Gough Whitlam was sacked by GG Kerr for being incompetant,permission from HRH.I saw the sacking live on TV, shame HRH won't give orders to sack the present PM, who was not elected, but deposed the elected PM Rudd,she will be ousted next election, mark my words, a more hated PM i have never seen. Gough is getting on now and hes in a home, his wife died last year Marget, they did not have any children.He was a Labor PM. I know all this.Please let us know when he's died. Have you taken to talking to yourself, because nobody else will talk to you ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218 Posted June 1, 2013 I have this weird thing that goes on in my head. Certain things/name/objects cause me to link words to them, even phrases/mental pictures. Gough Whitlam is an excellent example. I cannot see or hear his name without thinking of that "Morning lump of phlegm" smokers sometimes cough up when they have brushed their teeth. Why?! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
