Formula 1 & Other Motor Racing

[No Mere Nosebleed 0]

Is de Cesaris still involved in racing?

 

Sorry, forgot to sign in before. I think we picked de Cesaris in 87 because he seemed to be a disaster waiting to happen in the 86 F1 c'ship. Perhaps our resident experts can clarify the situation - did he really deCrasharis as often as we imagined?

 

A de C crashed an awful lot early on in his career. He wrote off several McLarens during the 1981 season without injury, thus proving that carbon fibre was a safe material to make racing cars from. Andrea became less and less erratic as his career progressed, and by 1994 was reckoned to be a very good bet to get his car home. It's easy to get a reputation as a 'crasher', but very hard to rid yourself of it.

 

The obvious (well, to me at any rate) driver to mention in the context of being a "crasher" is Ian Ashley, who was nicknamed "Crashley", and not just because it was an obvious pun on his name. "Erratic" is probably a reasonable way of describing his performances in a racing car; bloody quick to be sure but he spent an awful lot of time chasing the scenery. He's spent a rather interesting life since he gave up racing, but seems to be what you might call a survivor. I wouldn't put him on anyone's death list just yet.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

The obvious (well, to me at any rate) driver to mention in the context of being a "crasher" is Ian Ashley, who was nicknamed "Crashley", and not just because it was an obvious pun on his name. "Erratic" is probably a reasonable way of describing his performances in a racing car; bloody quick to be sure but he spent an awful lot of time chasing the scenery. He's spent a rather interesting life since he gave up racing, but seems to be what you might call a survivor. I wouldn't put him on anyone's death list just yet.

 

Other top 'crashers' were 'Wild' Willy Mairesse (who sadly ended his days by killing himself in a hotel room), Trevor Taylor (involved in many during his time at Lotus, though few were his fault, and was basically scared away from Formula 1), Vittorio Brambilla (who managed to crash at the finish line in the one race he won) and Gregor Foitek (who's bravery/talent ratio was skewed very far to the former, and nearly finished off Johnny Herbert at Brands Hatch in 1988).

[Youth in Asia 1,087]

I remember the turbo ban because (apologies F1 fans for shaky knowledge) McLaren kept theirs for a season longer than most of the other teams (there was a 'transitional' year to phase it out) and won almost every race by a mile. When was that, '88 or '89?

 

IIRC, the turbo boost limit was reduced from 4 bar to 2.5 bar in 1988 (this means it had a pop off valve to limit the amount of pressurised air being forced into the engine), and turbos were outlawed in 1989 - thus bringing forth the amazing era of up to 39 cars trying to qualify for a Grand Prix. Those were the days...

 

So what was the deal with the car that had six wheels for a season or two. An Elf, maybe? I'd love to know the thinking behind adding an extra 33% of contact area between car and road.

 

Wasn't the six wheeler a Tyrell?

 

I think it was a March - I remember having the Scalextric version which was also crap

[M.Lawrenson 11]

Wasn't the six wheeler a Tyrell?

 

I think it was a March - I remember having the Scalextric version which was also crap

 

 

The only 6 wheeler to race was the famous Tyrrell P34. It only won one race, and its drivers (especially Jody Scheckter) didn't rate it that highly. It was eventually kiboshed by it's tyres - Goodyear didn't want to spend a pile of cash developing special tiny tyres for a single customer, which meant by the P34's second year (1977) it was an also-ran, despite the best efforts of Patrick Depailler and Ronnie Peterson.

 

March and Williams did make 6 wheel cars too, but with 4 wheels at the back rather than the front. Testing times showed they provided so much advantage that it was swiftly banned by FISA. And that was the end of it.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

So, in these eco-conscious days, would it make sense to develop six wheeled road cars capable of converting more power into drive on the road? I mean, rubber is a renewable resource, petrol isn't.

[No Mere Nosebleed 0]

Other top 'crashers' were 'Wild' Willy Mairesse (who sadly ended his days by killing himself in a hotel room), Trevor Taylor (involved in many during his time at Lotus, though few were his fault, and was basically scared away from Formula 1), Vittorio Brambilla (who managed to crash at the finish line in the one race he won) and Gregor Foitek (who's bravery/talent ratio was skewed very far to the former, and nearly finished off Johnny Herbert at Brands Hatch in 1988).

 

The story of Willy Mairesse is indeed rather sad. I guess he'd just about made himself unsaleable as a racing driver after so many off-course excursions - not many people would want to employ someone with his history, even if he was quick. Perhaps Masten Gregory might also have met an early death in a racing car if only he hadn't acquired the amusing habit of baling out just before the point of impact.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Crash compilation. Do any of our motor racing experts recognise the accident with the two cars diverting into the pits and exploding, or the final clip where the poor sap falls out of his car as it goes over the crash barrier.

 

Just thought I'd enquire after the health of those involved, like.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Thanks, MPFC, I really wanted to see Jeff Krosnoff & Greg Moore's violent deaths again....

 

 

Gordon Smiley's accident was fatal too- that was 3rd from last - then it was our old friend Andrea de Cesaris at Austria - the final accident.. don't know - but I think he survived. 'cos no-one's perished at Tarragona since 1922. The pit crash has already been discussed on here, with the result being instant death for the poor chap.

[Guest Guest]

Crash compilation. Do any of our motor racing experts recognise the accident with the two cars diverting into the pits and exploding, or the final clip where the poor sap falls out of his car as it goes over the crash barrier.

 

Just thought I'd enquire after the health of those involved, like.

 

Sue Barker: "OK Ally, for your team it's motor racing. We're going to show a clip of some horrific crashes set to some zany music - all we want to know is how many deaths were involved?"

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Crash compilation. Do any of our motor racing experts recognise the accident with the two cars diverting into the pits and exploding, or the final clip where the poor sap falls out of his car as it goes over the crash barrier.

 

Just thought I'd enquire after the health of those involved, like.

 

Sue Barker: "OK Ally, for your team it's motor racing. We're going to show a clip of some horrific crashes set to some zany music - all we want to know is how many deaths were involved?"

 

MPFC will be probably be delighted to know it was 8. A particulary tasteless video selection, even by the internet's standards.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

A particulary tasteless video selection, even by the internet's standards.

 

Aye, but it's raining, the young 'uns band are practicing in the garage, Mrs MPFC is down buying woodchips for the garden. You know how it is. Anyway, tasteless would be including the Tom Pryce clip and then taking the piss by running it backwards and watching the marshall appear out of thin air, sort of thing.

 

So those two single seaters veering off course and the last clip, any ideas?

[Tuber Mirum 125]

Managed to watch Niki Lauda's bit after the Monaco GP yesterday. He looks old, a bit wizened (in spite of having seemingly gained some weight), but he was there and he didn't sound like a man close to death.

 

My hot tip for an early coronary would be Norbert Haug, who was looking dangerously red about the face.

[To die for 3]

Crash compilation. Do any of our motor racing experts recognise the accident with the two cars diverting into the pits and exploding, or the final clip where the poor sap falls out of his car as it goes over the crash barrier.

 

Just thought I'd enquire after the health of those involved, like.

 

Sue Barker: "OK Ally, for your team it's motor racing. We're going to show a clip of some horrific crashes set to some zany music - all we want to know is how many deaths were involved?"

 

MPFC will be probably be delighted to know it was 8. A particulary tasteless video selection, even by the internet's standards.

This is worse..the victims.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

MPFC will be probably be delighted to know it was 8. A particulary tasteless video selection, even by the internet's standards.

This is worse..the victims.

 

That one's positively tasteful to some 'tributes' I've seen (note how the compilers of these montages always call them 'tributes' - I'd rather they were honest and called them 'gawp at death'). At least it didn't show Piers Courage's incinerated corpse surrounded by the magnesium oxide that was his car, or Francois Cevert's legs and torso a lot further apart than they should have been. I'm as morbid as anyone, but let's not pretend these videos are respectful to the memories of the dead.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Indeed; there are special thanks to everyone who made it possible for him to 'realize' his tribute, presumably a vote of thanks to everyone who ran out of talent or came round a corner to encounter a debris and/or a marshall in the road.

 

I'm sure the next of kin feel much better.

 

 

Re Cevert; let's open the lunatic floodgates and let in a fortune teller. Go to the main page and click on the obvious link for that story, for some reason only the main page will copy here. Found your description of his death interesting Lawro, always understood he hit the barrier with such force the car buckled over him causing massive internal damage at the same time as a huge concussive impact sent him forever into the land of nod. Kind of assumed - bad as it was - he'd remained, more or less, intact. Wasn't those souvenier hungry ghouls that haunt racetracks that dismembered him, was it?

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

I think Lawro is getting confused (as many have done) with the poor fellow who was decapitated a year on at the same circuit - Helmuth Koinigg. Similiar accident, same circuit, a rather grislier ending than Cevert.

 

 

(For motor racing death freaks:-)

 

Although it shames me to even have to post the link, but the picture of the car submerged into the armco just shows you what killers they were. Thank goodness they were outlawed - no-one should have to die like that, sporting risks or no sporting risks.

[M.Lawrenson 11]

I think Lawro is getting confused (as many have done) with the poor fellow who was decapitated a year on at the same circuit - Helmuth Koinigg. Similiar accident, same circuit, a rather grislier ending than Cevert.

 

I'm not confused - from the photo I've seen (admittedly grainy and monochrome) Cevert's legs and torso were no longer where they should have been relative to each other. Whatever happened, it was just as messy, if not more so. One Tyrrell team member said, when checking over the car afterwards, "parts of Francois were still there."

 

And looking at the Koinnig 'tribute' on YouTube, I see that page's 'Related' scrollbar indicates there are at least 5 other 'Koinigg Tributes' on the site. Well, I suppose Helmut wanted to be famous...

 

We've seen how armco barriers killed drivers, but did it actually save any?

[Canadian Paul 97]

I think Lawro is getting confused (as many have done) with the poor fellow who was decapitated a year on at the same circuit - Helmuth Koinigg. Similiar accident, same circuit, a rather grislier ending than Cevert.

 

I'm not confused - from the photo I've seen (admittedly grainy and monochrome) Cevert's legs and torso were no longer where they should have been relative to each other. Whatever happened, it was just as messy, if not more so. One Tyrrell team member said, when checking over the car afterwards, "parts of Francois were still there."

 

Here's a tasteful documentary piece on the incident. Maybe that will help jog memories?

[harrymcnallysblueandwhitearmy 1,689]

Anyway, it'll all be two-wheel related deaths over the next week or so, in that strange lemming-fest they call the Isle of Man TT races. Take care, Handrejka.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Whilst we're talking about Watkins Glen; there's the fatal accident to

to consider. In a NASCAR race in the nineties. One that led to a revision of safety at an already troubled track.

 

There are longer you tubes available, adding footage of the emergency vehicles and the rest. If you're that way inclined, like.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Dale Earnhardt named on an AOL feature as one of the 50 best racing drivers ever. Fatal accident footage here. Is it right, his seat belt failed, meaning that serious but not too serious accident, was fatal?

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Dale Earnhardt named on an AOL feature as one of the 50 best racing drivers ever. Fatal accident footage here. Is it right, his seat belt failed, meaning that serious but not too serious accident, was fatal?

 

Ever heard of Google, MPFC? It really is most useful for answering queries.

 

Also, any particular reason you want to keep dragging up & then showing fatalities here when I thought this thread was for future possibilities? I knew some of these guys personally (Gonzalo Rodriguez, Michele Alboreto, Sebastien Enjolras to name three) and don't particulary appreciate either seeing their deaths again or the morbid fascination of how they met their maker.

 

Anyway, the answer to your question is a resounding NO. The reason Earnhardt died was due to minimal head & neck support, and was one of the chief reasons that the rather ungainly, but bloody useful HANS device is now worn by most drivers in most top-line series.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Dale Earnhardt named on an AOL feature as one of the 50 best racing drivers ever. Fatal accident footage here. Is it right, his seat belt failed, meaning that serious but not too serious accident, was fatal?

 

Ever heard of Google, MPFC? It really is most useful for answering queries.

 

Also, any particular reason you want to keep dragging up & then showing fatalities here when I thought this thread was for future possibilities? I knew some of these guys personally (Gonzalo Rodriguez, Michele Alboreto, Sebastien Enjolras to name three) and don't particulary appreciate either seeing their deaths again or the morbid fascination of how they met their maker.

 

Anyway, the answer to your question is a resounding NO. The reason Earnhardt died was due to minimal head & neck support, and was one of the chief reasons that the rather ungainly, but bloody useful HANS device is now worn by most drivers in most top-line series.

 

 

Aye, fair point OoO. I'll ease off for a bit. It's just, you hit one on You Tube and it offers you seven more after that. Laziness really, so it's no excuse. I'll go looking for a link to that riveting run round Monaco last Sunday. Man, even the podium trio looked bored! Do you still get a buzz watching Grands Prix OoO? I don't, which is one reason I'm on You Tube, not just seeking out the crashes, also marvelling at Mansell's slingshot double overtake in Hungary, Jim Clark, Fangio, even Chris Amon, they're all on there.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

Aye, fair point OoO. I'll ease off for a bit. It's just, you hit one on You Tube and it offers you seven more after that. Laziness really, so it's no excuse. I'll go looking for a link to that riveting run round Monaco last Sunday. Man, even the podium trio looked bored! Do you still get a buzz watching Grands Prix OoO? I don't, which is one reason I'm on You Tube, not just seeking out the crashes, also marvelling at Mansell's slingshot double overtake in Hungary, Jim Clark, Fangio, even Chris Amon, they're all on there.

 

 

That's the trouble with You Tube. For every great thing, there's five bad things, I guess. But there must be some good footage on there as well one hopes...

 

Every GP this year has been piss poor.

My personal highlight of the season is Takuma Sato coming 8th for Super Aguri at Barcelona & Valencia getting a Grand Prix as that means I can finally get a pass & watch the GP for virtually nothing... as a freelance GP journo I have to pay with the rest of the plebs for non UK events...

 

As for the Monaco no passing media nonsense, if it had been Hamilton 1st, Alonso 2nd, do you think there would have been so much moaning from the Brit press? Nope...

 

Oh, forgot to mention. GP Live a few weeks ago was a bit of a shambles but from a DL point of view.... Tony Brooks looks 10 years younger than he is & Stirling Moss looks a lot better than he has in recent years. Clemar Bucci looked very well for his advanced years too.

 

Think that's all for now.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Chris Amon still takes an interest, albeit from a distance, doesn't he? D'ya know if he's well OoO? Read the shallow and shite biography of him not too long back. Way less entertaining than the few clips I've found online.