From Cleric To Relic

[Toast 16,131]

 

 

 

Interesting, dear guest. There's also the problem of obitability with him. I've thought that he'd obit indirectly, because he would die before Geoffrey Robinson so that his obit would mention the earlier one. Another chance for an obit was the continuing coverage of the Pell commission, in the Guardian, for example. And well, the earlier he dies, the more likely a qualifying obit turns up, in the form of a one sentence-recognition of his death.

Geoffrey Robinson has always sounded to me as much an opportunist as the Howard Marks's or Lynne Stewarts of the world. I didn't include him anywhere this year--I simply don't believe he's in as dire straits as presented at testimony. I need more news updates on his 'condition' with a quote from or visit to a physician at the very least before he even makes a 2017 list.

SC

Assuming you're under the impression that this is another Megrahi gambit, Robinson's been a longtime advocate for the Catholic Church to be far, far more transparent regarding its child abuse, rather than someone who was hiding information, so I doubt he'd be hamming up his ailment. I could see him lasting for some time, but that's moreso because the cancer is still stable last I've read of him and not because of deliberate exaggeration.

 

It's quite a simple rule IMHO: if a person could 'potentially' use a health matter to obtain public sympathy, no matter how scant, they sure as hell are doing it. Don't be a lemming, don't believe the hype. It's my rule and it works for me; dismiss as you feel appropriate. I think history favors my position though. Citing an opposing name or two when you know I can throw at least a 2:1 ratio back at u is a disingenuous position. Talk to the hand.

 

Insert Robinson into the rule and there you go. It's funny it's only ever the criminal or their attorney who proffer doomsday health, never a doctor on the stand confirming it. Think about it.

SC

 

 

Howard Marks has been out of prison for over 20 years, so I don't get why you keep including him in your list of jail-dodging malingerers.

[time 8,595]

 

 

 

 

Interesting, dear guest. There's also the problem of obitability with him. I've thought that he'd obit indirectly, because he would die before Geoffrey Robinson so that his obit would mention the earlier one. Another chance for an obit was the continuing coverage of the Pell commission, in the Guardian, for example. And well, the earlier he dies, the more likely a qualifying obit turns up, in the form of a one sentence-recognition of his death.

Geoffrey Robinson has always sounded to me as much an opportunist as the Howard Marks's or Lynne Stewarts of the world. I didn't include him anywhere this year--I simply don't believe he's in as dire straits as presented at testimony. I need more news updates on his 'condition' with a quote from or visit to a physician at the very least before he even makes a 2017 list.

SC

Assuming you're under the impression that this is another Megrahi gambit, Robinson's been a longtime advocate for the Catholic Church to be far, far more transparent regarding its child abuse, rather than someone who was hiding information, so I doubt he'd be hamming up his ailment. I could see him lasting for some time, but that's moreso because the cancer is still stable last I've read of him and not because of deliberate exaggeration.

 

It's quite a simple rule IMHO: if a person could 'potentially' use a health matter to obtain public sympathy, no matter how scant, they sure as hell are doing it. Don't be a lemming, don't believe the hype. It's my rule and it works for me; dismiss as you feel appropriate. I think history favors my position though. Citing an opposing name or two when you know I can throw at least a 2:1 ratio back at u is a disingenuous position. Talk to the hand.

 

Insert Robinson into the rule and there you go. It's funny it's only ever the criminal or their attorney who proffer doomsday health, never a doctor on the stand confirming it. Think about it.

SC

 

 

Howard Marks has been out of prison for over 20 years, so I don't get why you keep including him in your list of jail-dodging malingerers.

 

Rules is rules.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

The end? Of the Aspinall saga as he gives evidence to the Royal Commission:

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane Phillip Aspinall took the stand at the child sexual abuse Royal commission today. His Grace was questioned about claims of a paedophile ring that operated in the Church of England Boys Society for 30 years from the 1960s. He denies claims he cajoled a boy into the bed of paedophile, just one of several difficult lines of questioning. As Michael Atkin reports, the Archbishop maintains he did not know about the abuse while it was occurring.

MICHAEL ATKIN, REPORTER: Phillip Aspinall returned to Hobart today, a man determined to defend his reputation. It's been 22 years since he worked here as an Anglican priest and a time when fellow clergy were allegedly operating a paedophile ring inside the Anglican Church.

[snip]

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall was a teenager in the 1970s when he regularly attended the Church of England boys camps in Tasmania. He later became a youth field worker and close associate of paedophile Lou Daniels during the 1980s.

QUESTIONER: By that time you had developed a close friendship?

PHILLIP ASPINALL, Archbishop of Brisbane: Yes, I think that's fair.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Last week in the Royal commission, Phillip Aspinall was accused of encouraging a boy to go into a room with another paedophile, priest Garth Hawkins.

GARTH HAWKINS, ABUSER: He was cajoled or teased by Phillip Aspinall and the other boys into joining me in my bed.

VOICE OF 'BYF', ABUSE SURVIVOR: "Archbishop Aspinall, he put me in that bed, he made that decision after I'd told him that I was concerned that Hawkins was the one who was going to abuse me."

MICHAEL ATKIN: Today, the Archbishop of Brisbane said he didn't remember that conversation from 1982, but conceded he could've been joking.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I certainly don't recall that.

QUESTIONER: Alright. But you can't deny that there was a conversation about that?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I can't positively rule it out.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1992, a leader in the Boys Society warned Phillip Aspinall that Lou Daniels was involved in serious misconduct involving boys. Daniels resigned without explanation two years later.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I knew something had gone on.

QUESTIONER: Did you suspect at the time of his resignation that it may have had something to do with inappropriate conduct with boys?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: Um ... I may have. That's possible.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1998, a church inquiry in Tasmania found it had a serious problem with paedophilia. A year later, Phillip Aspinall, who was a senior leader in the church, provided Lou Daniels with a character reference at his trial for child sex offences.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I can see how my writing of such a reference would cause them deep grief and I certainly regret that.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1999, Phillip Aspinall was living in Adelaide as the assistant bishop. At that time, Don Owers was the parish priest at the Magill Church in South Australia when abuse survivors of another alleged member of the paedophile ring, Bob Brandenburg, started coming forward.

DON OWERS: I interviewed the third person who had come forward to talk about abuse at the hands of Brandenburg. He mentioned boys being abused interstate, sometimes on CEBS national camps.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Don Owers contacted Phillip Aspinall and the Archbishop Ian George about his concerns. Some survivors had already gone to the police.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I was personally aware of at least four victims, which makes it very serious. The police had also told us that they expected there could be many more.

DON OWERS: Phillip Aspinall would've been involved in the decision-making processes through to the time that he left to become Archbishop of Brisbane at the end of 2001. Did he do enough? Well, I think he could've done more.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Just before Brandenburg was due to face court, he killed himself. The church didn't go public about his abuse for four more years.

BOB BRANDENBURG, FMR CHURCH OF ENGLAND YOUTH LEADER: I'm deeply sorry that the church did not protect children.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall did eventually act. As Archbishop of Brisbane, he set up an inquiry in 2002 that led to the resignation of his predecessor, Peter Hollingworth.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH, FORMER GOVERNOR-GENERAL: My decision to resign as Governor-General was taken after long and soul-searching consideration.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Yesterday at the Royal commission, Peter Hollingworth apologised for allowing paedophile John Elliott to continue working as a priest in the 1990s.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH: I'm deeply sorry that I was not sufficiently sensitive to your needs.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Aspinall is the current Archbishop of Brisbane and one of the church's brightest stars.

COLLEAGUE: I have known him since he became prominent as an Anglican priest, then bishop and Archbishop of Brisbane and then as primate, which means the leading bishop in Australia. His career as a churchman has been absolutely exemplary, significant.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Abuse survivor David Gould was listening to Phillip Aspinall give evidence today. He's not convinced he's heard the full story.

DAVID GOULD: I find his recollection less than convincing about some aspects of this. ... I think the Royal commission has been - with Archbishop Aspinall has put some of the facts out, not all of them.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4400694.htm

Aspinall still seemed to look very unwell but perhaps it was just just nerves as he faced cross examination over these allegations. Skin was pale and blotchy and he looked very old for a man who is just 56. This photo doesn't show it too closely but it gives a bit of an idea. Thoughts?

The Phillip Aspinall saga rolls on:

 

Before he faced the Royal Commission, Archbishop Aspinall pledged that a Brisbane Anglican school would refund its fees to children who were molested. Now that the Commission is over, the school has suddenly decided it isn't going to do that...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/brisbane-grammar-school-refuses-paedophile-victim-refunds/7164890

 

I also found this older gem from 2008. Turns out that the Anglican Diocese of Brisbane under Archbishop Aspinall's watch, thought it was a great idea to have a convicted paedophile sing in a church choir with children at a parish run by another convicted sex offender priest:

 

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/pedophile-scandal-rocks-church/story-e6freoof-1111115682855

 

 

Apparently Phillip Aspinall is part of a faction in the Anglican Church known as the "liberal catholic" branch. The Liberal Catholic Anglicans are basically like Anglo-Catholics, with a love of ceremony and exalted view of the mass and detest Calvinism, etc, but they are more liberal than Anglo-Catholics when it comes to things like allowing women priests (and, evidently, paedophilia.) Phillip Aspinall is also on record as rejecting the notion of separation of Church and State and wants the Church to work closely in an advisory role to government.

 

Interestingly, thoug, thess "liberal Catholics" actually are not liberal at all in the sense that they apparently have a reputation for being very authoritarian and focusing on hierarchy (must be their Catholic side coming out in them.) Not just Aspinall and his Brisbane cronies like Jonathan Holland but also Archbishop Peter Carnley of Perth is another example of this authoritarian Liberal Catholic Anglican faction. Hence, all of these liberal catholic dioceses have their own little popes lauding it over them!

 

By contrast, low church/Calvinist Anglicans are much stricter on morals and generally oppose women priests but they are more liberal in the sense of decentralising power and letting each parish run its own affairs and trusting them to keep up high moral standards.

 

Herein endeth today's lesson on the corruption and intrigues of the Anglican Church in Australia!

 

UPDATE: Found someone's blog post discussing these Liberal Catholic clowns: http://anglicandownunder.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/liberal-catholicism-do-you-understand.html

[Guest truthseeker]

Greetings

 

I have been following the royal commission closely too and came across your posts regarding Archbishop Aspinall. Yeah, you are on the right money about the corruption in the Anglican Church. It isn't just Brisbane - Adelaide and Melbourne are really bad as well. All of these liberal catholic diocese are dubious. You were quite right to point out that evangelical diocese like Sydney (under Jensen) and Tasmania (after Harrower cleaned the place up) have been more ethical despite their ultra-conservatism.

 

I have had dealings with the Diocese of Brisbane so I can tell you a bit more about Aspinall. He is a highly political player. As he himself once said 'The Anglican Church makes Federal Parliament look like kindergarten.'[1]

 

He is also very much in favour of closer ties between church and state, to the point where the Diocese allowed the church's magazine to run recruitment ads for the Australian Army.

 

The Anglican Diocese of Brisbane is basically about wealth and power. Note how Aspinall downgraded from an 11 million mansion to a more 'modest' 3 million mansion in one of the city's most exclusive suburbs [2] and how Aspinall is buying all of those statues at $45 000 a pop for his new Cathedral but the Church won't pay out for kids at the school who were abused. [3] Ironically, it will be a cathedral no one attends as attendance numbers throughout the Diocese are in freefall. It will be interesting to see the results of this year's census.

 

Aspinall was also the subject of a bullying case at one point that hasn't been mentioned here yet.[4] There are so many complaints against the guy that there has to be truth in some of them. I don't think the Royal Commission went hard enough and the full truth about what happened in Triabunna definitely didn't come out last week. At the end of the day, you have to remember that bishops are basically just 'politicians in drag' so expect them to act like politicians, not like Christian role models, and you will be on the right track.

 

I don't know of any health problems affecting Aspinall though. He looked terrible in the Royal Commission, true, but that was probably just nerves. Archdeacon Smith of Adelaide and Bishop Newell of Tasmania are the ones most likely to die soon.

 

It will be interesting to hear Pell's video link testimony next week to gauge what is happening on the other side of the fence in Catholic land. However corrupt the Anglican Diocese of Brisbane may be, multiply it 100x fold and you will have some idea of what the Vatican is like.

 

That's about all I can tell you.

 

Peace.

 

[1] http://www.smh.com.au/national/anglican-church-register-of-sex-abuse-complaints-out-of-date-royal-commission-hears-20131127-2yadt.html

 

[2] http://www.news.com.au/national/anglicans-make-8-million-after-moving-primate/story-e6frfkwr-1111113347141

 

[3] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-28/statues-raised-at-st-johns-cathedral-in-brisbane/6052432

 

[4] http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/anglican-synod-to-face-tribunal-over-bullying-accusations/story-e6freoof-1226642557920

 

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Wow. Thank you for posting all of that stuff, Mr/Mrs Guest. Yes, I think a lot of these things are an open secret around Australia. Good to see a light being shone on it by the Royal Commission and, like you say, it will be interesting to see what happens when Pell testifies. They could definitely have gone harder after Aspinall though. How many skeletons does that bloke have in his closet? It seems the Anglican Diocese of Brisbane is completely corrupt and there was definitely a lot of cover-up of child abuse in Adelaide too. Melbourne's always been very political.

 

Back on topic for DL, there were rumours about his health along time ago and he looked much older than 56 during the Commission but it might just be extreme nerves. Yes, I don't expect Bishop Newell to be around much longer.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Tim Minchin releases a new song, asking Cardinal Pell to come home and face the Royal Commission!

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Tim Minchin releases a new song, asking Cardinal Pell to come home and face the Royal Commission!

 

.... and Pell's office responds: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-18/cardinal-geroge-pell-royal-commission-abuse-tim-minchin-song/7179112

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

The big moment has finally come: Cardinal Pell is being examined by the Royal Commission right now. Live feed updates here:

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-29/live-blog-george-pell-evidence-child-abuse-royal-commission-rome/7206436

[Sir Creep 7,070]

Dayton, OH:

The Rev. William B. Schooler, 70, was fatally shot at St. Peter's Missionary Baptist Church early Sunday afternoon.
Witnesses said the violence broke out in the middle of the service while the choir was singing.

Schooler's brother, Daniel Schooler, 68, has been accused of the shooting.
SC

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

The big moment has finally come: Cardinal Pell is being examined by the Royal Commission right now. Live feed updates here:

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-29/live-blog-george-pell-evidence-child-abuse-royal-commission-rome/7206436

Day 2: Some quite explosive statements are being made! Read from the bottom up:

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/george-pell-continues-evidence-to-child-abuse-royal-commission/7209142

 

 

 

UPDATE: Here is today's summary, the headline being "Pell's Testimony Beggars Belief": http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/george-pells-gerald-ridsdale-testimony-beggars-belief-survivors/7209700

 

In a few swift hours, the Cardinal has completely destroyed any credibility the Roman Catholic Church in Australia had left. With friends like these...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Day 3: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-02/george-pell-third-day-royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse/7212356

 

Amongst the revelations so far is that one of the priests waved a handgun at people on occasions...

[gcreptile 10,964]

On a related note, and because Spotlight just won the Best Picture Oscar, I was very close to picking Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston in the DDP.

 

At one point he was said to be in very bad health, around mid-2015, ah, like here:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/09/29/cardinal-sean-malley-compares-pope-francis-visit-national-religious-retreat/LOdOMhDfjRclQDNby3jFnJ/story.html

 

But then it sort of turned out that Cardinal Law was doing ok, and was "banished" to Vatican City where he lives like a king in exile or something like that.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

On a related note, and because Spotlight just won the Best Picture Oscar, I was very close to picking Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston in the DDP.

 

At one point he was said to be in very bad health, around mid-2015, ah, like here:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/09/29/cardinal-sean-malley-compares-pope-francis-visit-national-religious-retreat/LOdOMhDfjRclQDNby3jFnJ/story.html

 

But then it sort of turned out that Cardinal Law was doing ok, and was "banished" to Vatican City where he lives like a king in exile or something like that.

A bit like Pell being too ill to fly to Australia to face the Royal Commission in person but the stress of handling the Vatican's finances is no problem for him...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Update: one of the child abuse survivors is publicly calling on the Pope to wash the feet of the survivors.

[Guest Lurking Aussie]

 

The end? Of the Aspinall saga as he gives evidence to the Royal Commission:

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane Phillip Aspinall took the stand at the child sexual abuse Royal commission today. His Grace was questioned about claims of a paedophile ring that operated in the Church of England Boys Society for 30 years from the 1960s. He denies claims he cajoled a boy into the bed of paedophile, just one of several difficult lines of questioning. As Michael Atkin reports, the Archbishop maintains he did not know about the abuse while it was occurring.

MICHAEL ATKIN, REPORTER: Phillip Aspinall returned to Hobart today, a man determined to defend his reputation. It's been 22 years since he worked here as an Anglican priest and a time when fellow clergy were allegedly operating a paedophile ring inside the Anglican Church.

[snip]

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall was a teenager in the 1970s when he regularly attended the Church of England boys camps in Tasmania. He later became a youth field worker and close associate of paedophile Lou Daniels during the 1980s.

QUESTIONER: By that time you had developed a close friendship?

PHILLIP ASPINALL, Archbishop of Brisbane: Yes, I think that's fair.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Last week in the Royal commission, Phillip Aspinall was accused of encouraging a boy to go into a room with another paedophile, priest Garth Hawkins.

GARTH HAWKINS, ABUSER: He was cajoled or teased by Phillip Aspinall and the other boys into joining me in my bed.

VOICE OF 'BYF', ABUSE SURVIVOR: "Archbishop Aspinall, he put me in that bed, he made that decision after I'd told him that I was concerned that Hawkins was the one who was going to abuse me."

MICHAEL ATKIN: Today, the Archbishop of Brisbane said he didn't remember that conversation from 1982, but conceded he could've been joking.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I certainly don't recall that.

QUESTIONER: Alright. But you can't deny that there was a conversation about that?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I can't positively rule it out.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1992, a leader in the Boys Society warned Phillip Aspinall that Lou Daniels was involved in serious misconduct involving boys. Daniels resigned without explanation two years later.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I knew something had gone on.

QUESTIONER: Did you suspect at the time of his resignation that it may have had something to do with inappropriate conduct with boys?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: Um ... I may have. That's possible.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1998, a church inquiry in Tasmania found it had a serious problem with paedophilia. A year later, Phillip Aspinall, who was a senior leader in the church, provided Lou Daniels with a character reference at his trial for child sex offences.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I can see how my writing of such a reference would cause them deep grief and I certainly regret that.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1999, Phillip Aspinall was living in Adelaide as the assistant bishop. At that time, Don Owers was the parish priest at the Magill Church in South Australia when abuse survivors of another alleged member of the paedophile ring, Bob Brandenburg, started coming forward.

DON OWERS: I interviewed the third person who had come forward to talk about abuse at the hands of Brandenburg. He mentioned boys being abused interstate, sometimes on CEBS national camps.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Don Owers contacted Phillip Aspinall and the Archbishop Ian George about his concerns. Some survivors had already gone to the police.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I was personally aware of at least four victims, which makes it very serious. The police had also told us that they expected there could be many more.

DON OWERS: Phillip Aspinall would've been involved in the decision-making processes through to the time that he left to become Archbishop of Brisbane at the end of 2001. Did he do enough? Well, I think he could've done more.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Just before Brandenburg was due to face court, he killed himself. The church didn't go public about his abuse for four more years.

BOB BRANDENBURG, FMR CHURCH OF ENGLAND YOUTH LEADER: I'm deeply sorry that the church did not protect children.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall did eventually act. As Archbishop of Brisbane, he set up an inquiry in 2002 that led to the resignation of his predecessor, Peter Hollingworth.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH, FORMER GOVERNOR-GENERAL: My decision to resign as Governor-General was taken after long and soul-searching consideration.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Yesterday at the Royal commission, Peter Hollingworth apologised for allowing paedophile John Elliott to continue working as a priest in the 1990s.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH: I'm deeply sorry that I was not sufficiently sensitive to your needs.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Aspinall is the current Archbishop of Brisbane and one of the church's brightest stars.

COLLEAGUE: I have known him since he became prominent as an Anglican priest, then bishop and Archbishop of Brisbane and then as primate, which means the leading bishop in Australia. His career as a churchman has been absolutely exemplary, significant.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Abuse survivor David Gould was listening to Phillip Aspinall give evidence today. He's not convinced he's heard the full story.

DAVID GOULD: I find his recollection less than convincing about some aspects of this. ... I think the Royal commission has been - with Archbishop Aspinall has put some of the facts out, not all of them.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4400694.htm

Aspinall still seemed to look very unwell but perhaps it was just just nerves as he faced cross examination over these allegations. Skin was pale and blotchy and he looked very old for a man who is just 56. This photo doesn't show it too closely but it gives a bit of an idea. Thoughts?

The Phillip Aspinall saga rolls on:

 

Before he faced the Royal Commission, Archbishop Aspinall pledged that a Brisbane Anglican school would refund its fees to children who were molested. Now that the Commission is over, the school has suddenly decided it isn't going to do that...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/brisbane-grammar-school-refuses-paedophile-victim-refunds/7164890

 

I also found this older gem from 2008. Turns out that the Anglican Diocese of Brisbane under Archbishop Aspinall's watch, thought it was a great idea to have a convicted paedophile sing in a church choir with children at a parish run by another convicted sex offender priest:

 

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/pedophile-scandal-rocks-church/story-e6freoof-1111115682855

 

 

Apparently Phillip Aspinall is part of a faction in the Anglican Church known as the "liberal catholic" branch. The Liberal Catholic Anglicans are basically like Anglo-Catholics, with a love of ceremony and exalted view of the mass and detest Calvinism, etc, but they are more liberal than Anglo-Catholics when it comes to things like allowing women priests (and, evidently, paedophilia.) Phillip Aspinall is also on record as rejecting the notion of separation of Church and State and wants the Church to work closely in an advisory role to government.

 

Interestingly, thoug, thess "liberal Catholics" actually are not liberal at all in the sense that they apparently have a reputation for being very authoritarian and focusing on hierarchy (must be their Catholic side coming out in them.) Not just Aspinall and his Brisbane cronies like Jonathan Holland but also Archbishop Peter Carnley of Perth is another example of this authoritarian Liberal Catholic Anglican faction. Hence, all of these liberal catholic dioceses have their own little popes lauding it over them!

 

By contrast, low church/Calvinist Anglicans are much stricter on morals and generally oppose women priests but they are more liberal in the sense of decentralising power and letting each parish run its own affairs and trusting them to keep up high moral standards.

 

Herein endeth today's lesson on the corruption and intrigues of the Anglican Church in Australia!

 

UPDATE: Found someone's blog post discussing these Liberal Catholic clowns: http://anglicandownunder.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/liberal-catholicism-do-you-understand.html

 

You nailed it there. The Anglican Diocese of Brisbane is a moral sewer. I can tell you more about the part of your comment I bolded. The convicted priests operate at Fortitude Valley at the Holy Trinity church there. There is a "brotherhood"/semi-monastic order called the Oratory of the Good Shepherd where they all hang out. They are one of the sleaziest groups of would-be "men of God" you'd ever encounter. Yes, Phillip Aspinal and Jonathan Holland turn a blind eye to them.

 

The other suspect/unsavoury group are the Franciscans out at Dutton Park. Nothing like Saint Francis - very sullen, rude and don't like outsiders poking around.

 

The Anglican Diocese of Brisbane has been infected with High Church/Anglo-Catholicism and its accompanying low morals ever since it was founded. I don't like the Sydney Anglicans because of their ultra conservatism since they are pro-death penalty and pro-censorship for instance but overall at least they try to enforce morality. Their problem is they just take things too far at times. I thought Jensen came out of the Royal Commission well whereas Aspinall's testimony seemed to be leaving things out, to put it mildly.

 

As for Pell, it seems the Roman Catholic Church is so utterly rotten and corrupt that it is a wonder if there will be a single Catholic left in the country after his testimony.

 

I was reading this thread last night:

 

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/forums/index.php?/topic/1169798-george-pell-royal-comission/

 

^ If that is what average Australian Catholic mums are thinking of their own church after Pell's testimony, the church might as well shut down now. It will take them decades to recover from this. I think we might see a situation similar to the Irish one where the RC Church crumbled overnight once all the filth and child abuse was finally exposed for all to see after so many decades.

 

You should definitely read that thread I pasted above. I think it is a good gauge of the public mood. People are very angry at how they have been misled.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

 

 

The end? Of the Aspinall saga as he gives evidence to the Royal Commission:

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane Phillip Aspinall took the stand at the child sexual abuse Royal commission today. His Grace was questioned about claims of a paedophile ring that operated in the Church of England Boys Society for 30 years from the 1960s. He denies claims he cajoled a boy into the bed of paedophile, just one of several difficult lines of questioning. As Michael Atkin reports, the Archbishop maintains he did not know about the abuse while it was occurring.

MICHAEL ATKIN, REPORTER: Phillip Aspinall returned to Hobart today, a man determined to defend his reputation. It's been 22 years since he worked here as an Anglican priest and a time when fellow clergy were allegedly operating a paedophile ring inside the Anglican Church.

[snip]

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall was a teenager in the 1970s when he regularly attended the Church of England boys camps in Tasmania. He later became a youth field worker and close associate of paedophile Lou Daniels during the 1980s.

QUESTIONER: By that time you had developed a close friendship?

PHILLIP ASPINALL, Archbishop of Brisbane: Yes, I think that's fair.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Last week in the Royal commission, Phillip Aspinall was accused of encouraging a boy to go into a room with another paedophile, priest Garth Hawkins.

GARTH HAWKINS, ABUSER: He was cajoled or teased by Phillip Aspinall and the other boys into joining me in my bed.

VOICE OF 'BYF', ABUSE SURVIVOR: "Archbishop Aspinall, he put me in that bed, he made that decision after I'd told him that I was concerned that Hawkins was the one who was going to abuse me."

MICHAEL ATKIN: Today, the Archbishop of Brisbane said he didn't remember that conversation from 1982, but conceded he could've been joking.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I certainly don't recall that.

QUESTIONER: Alright. But you can't deny that there was a conversation about that?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: No, I can't positively rule it out.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1992, a leader in the Boys Society warned Phillip Aspinall that Lou Daniels was involved in serious misconduct involving boys. Daniels resigned without explanation two years later.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I knew something had gone on.

QUESTIONER: Did you suspect at the time of his resignation that it may have had something to do with inappropriate conduct with boys?

PHILLIP ASPINALL: Um ... I may have. That's possible.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1998, a church inquiry in Tasmania found it had a serious problem with paedophilia. A year later, Phillip Aspinall, who was a senior leader in the church, provided Lou Daniels with a character reference at his trial for child sex offences.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I can see how my writing of such a reference would cause them deep grief and I certainly regret that.

MICHAEL ATKIN: In 1999, Phillip Aspinall was living in Adelaide as the assistant bishop. At that time, Don Owers was the parish priest at the Magill Church in South Australia when abuse survivors of another alleged member of the paedophile ring, Bob Brandenburg, started coming forward.

DON OWERS: I interviewed the third person who had come forward to talk about abuse at the hands of Brandenburg. He mentioned boys being abused interstate, sometimes on CEBS national camps.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Don Owers contacted Phillip Aspinall and the Archbishop Ian George about his concerns. Some survivors had already gone to the police.

PHILLIP ASPINALL: I was personally aware of at least four victims, which makes it very serious. The police had also told us that they expected there could be many more.

DON OWERS: Phillip Aspinall would've been involved in the decision-making processes through to the time that he left to become Archbishop of Brisbane at the end of 2001. Did he do enough? Well, I think he could've done more.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Just before Brandenburg was due to face court, he killed himself. The church didn't go public about his abuse for four more years.

BOB BRANDENBURG, FMR CHURCH OF ENGLAND YOUTH LEADER: I'm deeply sorry that the church did not protect children.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Phillip Aspinall did eventually act. As Archbishop of Brisbane, he set up an inquiry in 2002 that led to the resignation of his predecessor, Peter Hollingworth.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH, FORMER GOVERNOR-GENERAL: My decision to resign as Governor-General was taken after long and soul-searching consideration.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Yesterday at the Royal commission, Peter Hollingworth apologised for allowing paedophile John Elliott to continue working as a priest in the 1990s.

PETER HOLLINGWORTH: I'm deeply sorry that I was not sufficiently sensitive to your needs.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Aspinall is the current Archbishop of Brisbane and one of the church's brightest stars.

COLLEAGUE: I have known him since he became prominent as an Anglican priest, then bishop and Archbishop of Brisbane and then as primate, which means the leading bishop in Australia. His career as a churchman has been absolutely exemplary, significant.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Abuse survivor David Gould was listening to Phillip Aspinall give evidence today. He's not convinced he's heard the full story.

DAVID GOULD: I find his recollection less than convincing about some aspects of this. ... I think the Royal commission has been - with Archbishop Aspinall has put some of the facts out, not all of them.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4400694.htm

Aspinall still seemed to look very unwell but perhaps it was just just nerves as he faced cross examination over these allegations. Skin was pale and blotchy and he looked very old for a man who is just 56. This photo doesn't show it too closely but it gives a bit of an idea. Thoughts?

The Phillip Aspinall saga rolls on:

 

Before he faced the Royal Commission, Archbishop Aspinall pledged that a Brisbane Anglican school would refund its fees to children who were molested. Now that the Commission is over, the school has suddenly decided it isn't going to do that...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/brisbane-grammar-school-refuses-paedophile-victim-refunds/7164890

 

I also found this older gem from 2008. Turns out that the Anglican Diocese of Brisbane under Archbishop Aspinall's watch, thought it was a great idea to have a convicted paedophile sing in a church choir with children at a parish run by another convicted sex offender priest:

 

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/pedophile-scandal-rocks-church/story-e6freoof-1111115682855

 

 

Apparently Phillip Aspinall is part of a faction in the Anglican Church known as the "liberal catholic" branch. The Liberal Catholic Anglicans are basically like Anglo-Catholics, with a love of ceremony and exalted view of the mass and detest Calvinism, etc, but they are more liberal than Anglo-Catholics when it comes to things like allowing women priests (and, evidently, paedophilia.) Phillip Aspinall is also on record as rejecting the notion of separation of Church and State and wants the Church to work closely in an advisory role to government.

 

Interestingly, thoug, thess "liberal Catholics" actually are not liberal at all in the sense that they apparently have a reputation for being very authoritarian and focusing on hierarchy (must be their Catholic side coming out in them.) Not just Aspinall and his Brisbane cronies like Jonathan Holland but also Archbishop Peter Carnley of Perth is another example of this authoritarian Liberal Catholic Anglican faction. Hence, all of these liberal catholic dioceses have their own little popes lauding it over them!

 

By contrast, low church/Calvinist Anglicans are much stricter on morals and generally oppose women priests but they are more liberal in the sense of decentralising power and letting each parish run its own affairs and trusting them to keep up high moral standards.

 

Herein endeth today's lesson on the corruption and intrigues of the Anglican Church in Australia!

 

UPDATE: Found someone's blog post discussing these Liberal Catholic clowns: http://anglicandownunder.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/liberal-catholicism-do-you-understand.html

 

You nailed it there. The Anglican Diocese of Brisbane is a moral sewer. I can tell you more about the part of your comment I bolded. The convicted priests operate at Fortitude Valley at the Holy Trinity church there. There is a "brotherhood"/semi-monastic order called the Oratory of the Good Shepherd where they all hang out. They are one of the sleaziest groups of would-be "men of God" you'd ever encounter. Yes, Phillip Aspinal and Jonathan Holland turn a blind eye to them.

 

The other suspect/unsavoury group are the Franciscans out at Dutton Park. Nothing like Saint Francis - very sullen, rude and don't like outsiders poking around.

 

The Anglican Diocese of Brisbane has been infected with High Church/Anglo-Catholicism and its accompanying low morals ever since it was founded. I don't like the Sydney Anglicans because of their ultra conservatism since they are pro-death penalty and pro-censorship for instance but overall at least they try to enforce morality. Their problem is they just take things too far at times. I thought Jensen came out of the Royal Commission well whereas Aspinall's testimony seemed to be leaving things out, to put it mildly.

 

As for Pell, it seems the Roman Catholic Church is so utterly rotten and corrupt that it is a wonder if there will be a single Catholic left in the country after his testimony.

 

I was reading this thread last night:

 

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/forums/index.php?/topic/1169798-george-pell-royal-comission/

 

^ If that is what average Australian Catholic mums are thinking of their own church after Pell's testimony, the church might as well shut down now. It will take them decades to recover from this. I think we might see a situation similar to the Irish one where the RC Church crumbled overnight once all the filth and child abuse was finally exposed for all to see after so many decades.

 

You should definitely read that thread I pasted above. I think it is a good gauge of the public mood. People are very angry at how they have been misled.

 

Thanks, Guest. Yes, I have heard of the Oratory of the Good Shepherd and their "interesting" reputation. I realise those Fortitude Valley priests who have been up on child sexual charges in the past are associated with them. Why on earth haven't they been defrocked?

 

It will be VERY interesting to see the Royal Commission's findings on Aspinall's actions. I wonder if he will be forced to step down if they give him a negative report. The problem then is that Jonathan bloody Holland will become bishop since he hasn't been called before the Royal Commission at all and he is another slimy politician.

 

Also agree that these Anglo-Catholic/Liberal Catholic types seem to have no moral convictions whatsoever. I have seen some do some very unethical things (nothing to do with child abuse or anything sexual, I hasten to add. Just other shady stuff and bullying.)

 

Agreed that the Roman Catholic Church in Australia is on very shaky grounds tonight. The repercussions of Pell's testimony will reverberate for years. I was in a bar the other day and they were screening his testimony. The comments - from older, apparently conservative people - was one of absolute disgust and anger. I just had a glance at that discussion thread you provided (will read the whole thing through later) and yes, it was similar sentiment.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if the Pope himself didn't do a tour of Australia in the next year or two to try to patch things over and do some PR work but I think the damage is done. Catholics can be notoriously blinkered and supportive of their church and the very fact that they have been alienated by Pell's lack of empathy and evasion and buck passing and the fact that they have had the wool pulled over their eyes by corrupt bishops covering up child molesting priests shows just how far things have gone.

 

In conclusion, I just found this sign that was apparently put up by a Welsh (Protestant) Church in Melbourne:

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Meanwhile, Roman Catholic Bishop Mulkearns, whom Cardinal Pell blamed for most of the cover-ups over paedophilia in his Royal Commission testimony, "has advanced cancer and only months to live" according to multiple sources:

 

 

 

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/bishop-ronald-mulkearns-admits-not-dealing-with-pedophile-priests-properly-and-wanting-to-protect-churchs-reputation/news-story/2cf5bd87204ab0852229bffba2bb6f75

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ballarat-bishop-could-take-secrets-to-grave-20160221-gmzmi4.html

 

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/vic/2016/02/21/fears-victorian-bishop-will-remain-quiet.html

[Magere Hein 1,400]

ISTM the RC church in Australia is learning that the real world's attitude to sin is different from theirs, i.e. confession and repentance don't make it go away.

[gcreptile 10,964]

Meanwhile, Roman Catholic Bishop Mulkearns, whom Cardinal Pell blamed for most of the cover-ups over paedophilia in his Royal Commission testimony, "has advanced cancer and only months to live" according to multiple sources:

 

 

 

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/bishop-ronald-mulkearns-admits-not-dealing-with-pedophile-priests-properly-and-wanting-to-protect-churchs-reputation/news-story/2cf5bd87204ab0852229bffba2bb6f75

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ballarat-bishop-could-take-secrets-to-grave-20160221-gmzmi4.html

 

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/vic/2016/02/21/fears-victorian-bishop-will-remain-quiet.html

At least, he really seems to be terminally ill. I was expecting a January/February death, with him being in palliative care and all that. But I'll settle for a mid-year death. But of course, the later he dies, the less likely an obit becomes, since I'm not convinced of an automatic Guardian/Daily Mail obit.

[Guest Maria MacKillop]

Cardinal Pell's testimony in full:

3rd March 2016 Part 3 (40 mins – conclusion)
http://youtu.be/TkRF9dBPx38

3rd March 2016 Part 2 (1hr 32min)
http://youtu.be/QPkVoF2-j5U

3rd March 2016 Part 1 (1hr 18min)
http://youtu.be/5ohcfbOVMAU

2nd March 2016 Part 3 (1hr 14min)
http//youtu.be/HftTLjCzMH0

2nd March 2015 Part 2 (1hr 31min)
http://youtu.be/5bpuKZM9Ls0

2nd March 2016 Part 1 (1hr 16min)
http://youtu.be/oBaWJloYUBM

1st March 2016 Part 2 (2hr 3min)
http://youtu.be/YeFbXXrHEXM

1st March 2016 (4mins)
http://youtu.be/ii9pUX_fohE

29th February 2016 (2hr 5min)
http://youtu.be/DBOtGSYMbc4

[gcreptile 10,964]

Hmm ok, the Guardian is slaying you with their coverage of the Pell commission:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/royal-commission-into-institutional-responses-to-child-sexual-abuse

 

So the obit for Ronald Mulkarns is probably a guarantee. Of course, I thought it would be a unique hit. DDT probably thought so as well...

[Spade_Cooley 9,515]

The Guardian's increased leaning on Australian news reporting in recent months definitely brings a lot more Australian "news" figures (former cabinet ministers, religious leaders et al) into play for the DDP.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

[Sir Creep 7,070]

A retired Roman Catholic bishop in Jackson (Miss.) has died. Current Bishop Joseph Kopacz says Bishop William Houck died early Wednesday at St. Dominic's Hospital of complications following heart surgery. Houck, 89, led the diocese covering 65 counties in central and northern Mississippi from 1984 to 2003. His tenure was marred by lawsuits against the diocese over sexual abuse by priests (yawwwn...)
SC

[Sir Creep 7,070]

Father Virgilio Elizondo, a well-known theologian, professor at the University of Notre Dame and former rector of San Fernando Cathedral, died Monday, according to several sources.

The Bexar County (San Antonio) Medical Examiner’s Office verified his death late Monday night. Archdiocese of San Antonio officials did not return calls, nor did several other Catholic officials who knew Elizondo well.

Widely considered the founder of U.S. Latino theology, Elizondo had been living under a cloud of suspicion after a lawsuit filed in Bexar County last May accused him of sexually abusing an unidentified boy more than 30 years ago.

SC