So .. What Do You Watch On TV?

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

1 hour ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

Well, I watched the new Dr Who.

I liked it.

Don't shoot me.

LOL. It'll air down here later tonight. I suppose I'll give the sheila a chance.

 

One question: I know it is set in Sheffield but (I think) the show is still being made in Cardiff. Are the outdoor/location scenes in the episode actually shot in Sheffield or is Cardiff standing in for it?

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

1 hour ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

LOL. It'll air down here later tonight. I suppose I'll give the sheila a chance.

 

One question: I know it is set in Sheffield but (I think) the show is still being made in Cardiff. Are the outdoor/location scenes in the episode actually shot in Sheffield or is Cardiff standing in for it?

The external location stuff was shot in Sheffield but the charity shop scene was in Cardiff.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

3 hours ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

Well, I watched the new Dr Who.

I liked it.

Don't shoot me.

I gave it 5/10.

I'll raise it to 6 if they deliver on some of the promise

Bradley Walsh was not annoying.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

2 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I gave it 5/10.

I'll raise it to 6 if they deliver on some of the promise

Bradley Walsh was not annoying.

Okay, so LFN actually liked it and Biblio thought it was very average. I am worried!

 

 It is still several hours away down here. 

 

I understand that:

 

a. Doc 13 is "more human" than the last two

b. We are going to have many companions

c. Chibnall is a fairly ordinary writer (with the exception of Broadchurch, which I haven't seen)

d. The show is going to be more cinematic than ever before

 

All this sounds frighteningly reminiscent of the Fifth Doctor's era to me. Human Doctor, "crowded Tardis" syndrome, Saward's writing ruining Davison's potential, glitzy but vacuous JNT production values and guest stars, etc... 

 

The one thing I am really holding out for is the rumour that there are going to be some pure historicals again.

[Paul Bearer 6,102]

9 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I gave it 5/10.

I'll raise it to 6 if they deliver on some of the promise

Bradley Walsh was not annoying.

 

12 hours ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

Well, I watched the new Dr Who.

I liked it.

Don't shoot me.

I watched it too. Thought it was 'meh'.  Bit disappointed by it, but I reckon I'm the same with most new doctors. I'll give it a few more episodes. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

8 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Okay, so LFN actually liked it and Biblio thought it was very average. I am worried!

 

 It is still several hours away down here. 

 

I understand that:

 

a. Doc 13 is "more human" than the last two

b. We are going to have many companions

c. Chibnall is a fairly ordinary writer (with the exception of Broadchurch, which I haven't seen)

d. The show is going to be more cinematic than ever before

 

All this sounds frighteningly reminiscent of the Fifth Doctor's era to me. Human Doctor, "crowded Tardis" syndrome, Saward's writing ruining Davison's potential, glitzy but vacuous JNT production values and guest stars, etc... 

 

The one thing I am really holding out for is the rumour that there are going to be some pure historicals again.

The fifth Doctor is my era. I loved all three seasons. In most cases the guest casting worked and the crowded TARDIS felt natural. This episode looked and sounded fantastic but the script and plot were clunky. I am not a fan of Chibnell's previous DW episodes and have never watched Broadchurch. I did think that Jodie Whittaker showed promise.

[Grim Up North 3,726]

As a child I watched Jon Pertwee through to Peter Davison and stopped during Colin Baker which might have been more to do with drinking on a Saturday night than Colin Baker.

Then I started watching again at the relaunch with Christopher Ecclestone and David Tennant but stopped very quickly with Matt Smith.

 

Last night I watched it out of curiosity because Jodie Whittaker is both a good actor and, of course, the first female Doctor.

 

I was desperate to like it but was left a little indifferent.

 

I just didn't care enough when the old lady died, or when the target boy was going to get taken by the tooth faced monster, or by Bradley's funeral speech or by anything really.

Doctor Jodie seems to be inhabiting the same Doctor genes as David Tennant, intense and frantic with a sense of humour but (as it did sometimes with Tennant too for me) it all seemed a bit overacted and forced.

 

Anyhow as per my first para I'm not a massive Doctor fan so I will give her another week or two. From memory the first episode of a new Doctor are always a little bit clunky because they have to often get new companions introduced and given a story and a background.

 

Things I did like - the monster with the tooth embedded in its face from each of its victims, the clothes shop nod towards the fact that she was a woman and liked shopping.

 

Things I wonder and don't know - in previous Doctor changes has the new Doctor appeared with their new outfit already on or do they always wear the clothes of the previous Doctor and then need to change into clothes of their choice? 

 

[msc 18,477]

1 hour ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Things I wonder and don't know - in previous Doctor changes has the new Doctor appeared with their new outfit already on or do they always wear the clothes of the previous Doctor and then need to change into clothes of their choice? 

 

 

Changes depending on the writer.

 

Jodie Whittaker and the other new regulars were good. The dialogue and pacing were shite. As usual, Chris Chibnall tends to be the worst thing about any script by Chris Chibnall, but the actors did their best, and I hear better writers are on board in a few weeks.

 

8.2 million viewers overnight btw (ie before Iplayer and On Demand gets added on) - excellent for British drama in 2018.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

One thing to point out and that is Jodie Whittaker is a full blown PROPER actress who has done a shit load of stuff ( much of it very good) before getting this role.

I've watched Who from Pertwee onwards and, honestly, it's 2018 and hammy shit with crap scripts and actors looking amateurish should be long gone. There are whole film franchises out there from Predator to The Avengers and they have moved Sci Fi on to another level. That's not suggesting that it's better but it does say this century more than the last.

Yes, there will always be an offbeat and jokey element to The Doctor but, maybe, there will be a more harder edge to the character and the actress chosen knows how to play a character or three.

Anyway, Capaldi had zero redeeming qualities and you really did not give a shit if The Dr lived or died.

We need to care to believe or summat.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

3 hours ago, Grim Up North said:

As a child I watched Jon Pertwee through to Peter Davison and stopped during Colin Baker which might have been more to do with drinking on a Saturday night than Colin Baker.

Then I started watching again at the relaunch with Christopher Ecclestone and David Tennant but stopped very quickly with Matt Smith.

 

Last night I watched it out of curiosity because Jodie Whittaker is both a good actor and, of course, the first female Doctor.

 

I was desperate to like it but was left a little indifferent.

 

I just didn't care enough when the old lady died, or when the target boy was going to get taken by the tooth faced monster, or by Bradley's funeral speech or by anything really.

Doctor Jodie seems to be inhabiting the same Doctor genes as David Tennant, intense and frantic with a sense of humour but (as it did sometimes with Tennant too for me) it all seemed a bit overacted and forced.

 

Anyhow as per my first para I'm not a massive Doctor fan so I will give her another week or two. From memory the first episode of a new Doctor are always a little bit clunky because they have to often get new companions introduced and given a story and a background.

 

Things I did like - the monster with the tooth embedded in its face from each of its victims, the clothes shop nod towards the fact that she was a woman and liked shopping.

 

Things I wonder and don't know - in previous Doctor changes has the new Doctor appeared with their new outfit already on or do they always wear the clothes of the previous Doctor and then need to change into clothes of their choice? 

 

Iirc correctly. All the Doctors have been seen in their predecessor's outfit with the possible exception of Patrick Troughton who regenerated a whole new set of clothes.

[runebomme 377]

I like the old doctor who

 

all this new stuff is rubbish not watching any more of it 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

11 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

The fifth Doctor is my era. I loved all three seasons. In most cases the guest casting worked and the crowded TARDIS felt natural. This episode looked and sounded fantastic but the script and plot were clunky. I am not a fan of Chibnell's previous DW episodes and have never watched Broadchurch. I did think that Jodie Whittaker showed promise.

I still haven't seen it as I had to go out last night! Will watch it today.

 

I want to like the Fifth Doctor but I just can't. It is a combination of things from the extremely poor writing under Saward through to the bad acting of the companions.

 

Most of all, though, there is the weird public perception that has developed that the Fifth Doctor is the most pacifist of the classic Doctors, while there is virtually no evidence of this onscreen apart from one story, Warriors of the Deep. Peter Davison's Doctor guns down Cybermen, destroys Daleks, seriously contemplates killing Davros, euthanizes Omega and kills Monarch. This is comparable to the killings by the Sixth Doctor so I don't understand why Davison gets a free pass whilst the Colin Baker era is criticised for being too violent. 

 

I think they mistake the passivity of the Doctor in many stories like Kinda (where he does not actively drive the events)  with pacifism which is proactive non-violence.

 

There are more references to the Doctor being a pacifist/non-violent sprinkled throughout the Pertwee (constant critiques of UNIT, "peace party stuff in Frontier, comments about abhorring violence, etc) and some of the  McCoy stories (Delta and the Bannermen, "look me in the eyes" speech in Happiness Patrol, anti-nuke stuff in Battlefield and rejection of the Seargeant's philosophy in Survival) than we see in the Davison era.

 

Overall New Who is much more overtly pacifist than Old Who though. I tend to feel that Tennant - especially in his last season - is an attempt to do the Fifth Doctor in a more updated way. The Doctor's Daughter is much more overtly pacifist and would have worked as a Fifth Doctor story and the confrontation between Davros and the Doctor in the Stolen Earth finale also explores these themes more effectively than the Peter Davison Dalek story.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

8 hours ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

One thing to point out and that is Jodie Whittaker is a full blown PROPER actress who has done a shit load of stuff ( much of it very good) before getting this role.

I've watched Who from Pertwee onwards and, honestly, it's 2018 and hammy shit with crap scripts and actors looking amateurish should be long gone. There are whole film franchises out there from Predator to The Avengers and they have moved Sci Fi on to another level. That's not suggesting that it's better but it does say this century more than the last.

Yes, there will always be an offbeat and jokey element to The Doctor but, maybe, there will be a more harder edge to the character and the actress chosen knows how to play a character or three.

Anyway, Capaldi had zero redeeming qualities and you really did not give a shit if The Dr lived or died.

We need to care to believe or summat.

Haven't seen Whittaker in anything at all yet so looking forward to seeing if she has the chops.

 

The amateurish stuff should definitely be gone. 

 

"it's 2018 and hammy shit with crap scripts and actors looking amateurish should be long gone. There are whole film franchises out there from Predator to The Avengers and they have moved Sci Fi on to another level."

 

The thing is, I know you don't like Star Wars anyway but when I saw the Force Awakens, I was comparing it to Moffatt Who which was on at the time and I thought it was the new SW film that compared poorly with its bad script and amateurish actors compared to what DW was doing at the time. SW just seemed very tired and old compared to Dr Who. For instance, as convoluted as some of Moffatt's twists turned out to be, his initial teasers were far more compelling than tedious bollocks like the mystery of Rey's parentage and whether Snoke is Darth Plagueis or not. Add to that, the very poorly realised and uncompelling new characters in the SW sequels. Therefore it stood up well against the biggest SF film franchise, IMHO. It is never going to be Solaris or Blade Runner quality serious SF though.

 

"Yes, there will always be an offbeat and jokey element to The Doctor but, maybe, there will be a more harder edge to the character"

 

Don't know if this would work. I suppose it did in Pertwee's first season which is probably the closest to what you are looking for. Part of the reason DW has survived though is that it doesn't take itself too seriously and is happy to parody the more ridiculous aspects of the genre and be a bit camp. 

 

"Anyway, Capaldi had zero redeeming qualities" 

 

He was my favourite new one. Really clicked with me. Then again, I like Charon's posts as well, so I must have a soft spot for these cantankerous old Scottish b*stards.

[msc 18,477]

Right, excuse the geek talk for 2 seconds, everyone else...

 

17 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

 

I want to like the Fifth Doctor but I just can't. It is a combination of things from the extremely poor writing under Saward through to the bad acting of the companions.

 

Yeah, Eric Saward is a shit writer.

 

17 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Most of all, though, there is the weird public perception that has developed that the Fifth Doctor is the most pacifist of the classic Doctors, while there is virtually no evidence of this onscreen apart from one story, Warriors of the Deep.

 

Warriors of the Deep, where he talks up peace while slaughtering two entire species? Who was the script editor on that bollocks? Oh, yeah, Eric Saward.

 

17 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

 

There are more references to the Doctor being a pacifist/non-violent sprinkled throughout the Pertwee and some of the  McCoy stories than we see in the Davison era.

 

PERTWEE? With the karate and the thumping folk? A pacifist?

 

It's like calling John Steed a pacifist, because he doesn't carry a gun. I know Guardian types like to think of the character as pacifist, but it's more someone who'd prefer a non-violent solution if possible, but is willing to fuck your shit up otherwise.

 

 

Right, geek talk over....

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

. It is never going to be Solaris or Blade Runner quality serious SF though.

 Part of the reason DW has survived though is that it doesn't take itself too seriously and is happy to parody the more ridiculous aspects of the genre and be a bit camp. 

 

"Anyway, Capaldi had zero redeeming qualities" 

 

He was my favourite new one. Really clicked with me.

 

 

Yeah, hard serious SF is fucking tedious. imo, of course. Dune, 2001 and all that. Yawn.

 

Anyhow, Capaldi at 60 is too young for LFN.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

12 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

The fifth Doctor is my era.

Daft question but when people online say this Doctor "is my era" or "so-and-so is my Doctor" what do they actually mean? Is it the person who was the Doctor when they were seven/twelve years old that they grew up with or do they just mean the Doctor they like the most or is it the one that got them into the show? 

 

My answer will vary depending on the definition...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

14 minutes ago, msc said:

PERTWEE? With the karate and the thumping folk? A pacifist?

 

Yes but he isn't killing people (apart from that poor ol' Ogron) and he is anti-military. (I actually think the Pertwee era would have worked better if he had gone on the run from UNIT after the events of the Silurians and that the rest of the series had shown him trapped on earth preventing invasions whilst being hunted himself.)

[runebomme 377]

48 minutes ago, msc said:

Right, excuse the geek talk for 2 seconds, everyone else...

 

 

Yeah, Eric Saward is a shit writer. 

 

 

Warriors of the Deep, where he talks up peace while slaughtering two entire species? Who was the script editor on that bollocks? Oh, yeah, Eric Saward.

 

 

PERTWEE? With the karate and the thumping folk? A pacifist?

 

It's like calling John Steed a pacifist, because he doesn't carry a gun. I know Guardian types like to think of the character as pacifist, but it's more someone who'd prefer a non-violent solution if possible, but is willing to fuck your shit up otherwise.

 

 

Right, geek talk over....

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, hard serious SF is fucking tedious. imo, of course. Dune, 2001 and all that. Yawn.

 

Anyhow, Capaldi at 60 is too young for LFN.

 

"Eric Saward is a shit writer."

 

who needs good writers when you have political correctness

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

1 hour ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Daft question but when people online say this Doctor "is my era" or "so-and-so is my Doctor" what do they actually mean? Is it the person who was the Doctor when they were seven/twelve years old that they grew up with or do they just mean the Doctor they like the most or is it the one that got them into the show? 

 

My answer will vary depending on the definition...

He was the Doctor at the point I moved from being a viewer to a fan (yes about 12). In his best stories Kinda, Castrovalva, Frontios and Caves he portrays what I think of as his characteristics and old man trapped in a young man's body and very loyal and protective. There were some bad stories in that era but Davison does his best all the time.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

8 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

He was the Doctor at the point I moved from being a viewer to a fan (yes about 12). 

My story is more convoluted: as a kid I was a casual viewer with the ABC doing endless reruns of Tom Baker and then Peter Davison on Saturday afternoons [the Cushing films were occasionally aired, too]. Somehow I missed the Colin Baker era when it first aired but I saw quite a lot of McCoy and Ace and really quite liked that when I watched it on a casual basis. Later of course there was the TV film and, again, I enjoyed that for what it was and appreciated the higher standard of acting, cinematography and Tardis set.

 

However, I didn't become a fan until I finally saw some Hartnell in my 20s and that really clicked with me, especially his historicals. He is still my favourite but Pertwee is closing in fast.

 

I was also slow to like New Who. I thought the first three seasons were weak (with the occasionally good story) but things finally came together, IMHO, in the Catherine Tate season when it  won me over  and I have liked it ever since.

 

*** 

 

Anyway, I have finally just seen Jodie's first episode. Yes, average but with potential. The plot wasn't stunning but I am grateful they didn't labour any feminist or transgender points too much. Good world-building around the description regeneration and it seems that the Doc really believes Susan is dead.

 

Jodie was okay but lacked some gravitas to me. Sometimes it felt to me like she was just doing a female impersonation of previous New Who doctors instead of really living the part but it is early days.

 

Bradley Walsh is unknown down here but he was just like a bloke I used to know about twenty years ago named Brian in looks, mannerisms, etc. The resemblance was uncanny. Speaking of which, I didn't know any of those actors for upcoming episodes featured in the end credits so that probably fell a bit flat from an Aussie marketing perspective, too.

 

Interesting to see the Doc go to the funeral service in the church which may be the first positive reference to religion in the show since the Hartnell era. The death of *Grace* is interesting from a symbolic perspective and it is interesting to see how this will play out especially since the next episode is entitled the Ghost Monument so she might be back in some form later.

 

The pacifism is still there with the Doc wanting to teleport the villain away and sharply rebuking the crane operator for kicking him over the edge. 

 

Overall, a subdued, workmanlike start but it did the job of introducing the new characters and making the audience care about them. Hopefully they can build on this. 6.5/10

 

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

8 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

In his best stories Kinda, Castrovalva, Frontios and Caves

Yes,  Kinda and Castrovalva are highlights of his run but they are probably too complex and abstract for children, so at this point the show seemed to be forgetting a core part of its audience. 

 

I haven't seen Frontios so I can't comment on that.

 

Caves is wildly overrated by fans but it is a strong little story and Peri works well with Five. It is a relief to see him with  just one companion and nice that he went out on a high note.

 

I'd add Mawdryn as another strong Five story and, as a guilty pleasure, Black Orchid which has a nice atmosphere despite being so slight.

[msc 18,477]

54 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Bradley Walsh is unknown down here but he was just like a bloke I used to know about twenty years ago named Brian in looks, mannerisms, etc. The resemblance was uncanny. Speaking of which, I didn't know any of those actors for upcoming episodes featured in the end credits so that probably fell a bit flat from an Aussie marketing perspective, too.

 

The pacifism is still there with the Doc wanting to teleport the villain away and sharply rebuking the crane operator for kicking him over the edge.

 

I'd only heard of Lee Mack (unfunny comedian), Alan Cumming (Goldeneye, Spy Kids, acclaimed stage career) and Art Malik (True Lies, The Living Daylight) who is a big name actor and quite a coup, imo.

 

Also, planting a detonating bomb on someone is pacifism? We really have different definitions of pacifism here.

 

 

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

55 minutes ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Yes,  Kinda and Castrovalva are highlights of his run but they are probably too complex and abstract for children, so at this point the show seemed to be forgetting a core part of its audience. 

 

I haven't seen Frontios so I can't comment on that.

 

Caves is wildly overrated by fans but it is a strong little story and Peri works well with Five. It is a relief to see him with  just one companion and nice that he went out on a high note.

 

I'd add Mawdryn as another strong Five story and, as a guilty pleasure, Black Orchid which has a nice atmosphere despite being so slight.

I adore Caves it is so brilliant. The scenes between PD and Christopher Gable in episode 2 are so tight. You cannot over rate something that good.

I also have a soft spot for Terminus.

[Grim Up North 3,726]

2 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Speaking of which, I didn't know any of those actors for upcoming episodes featured in the end credits so that probably fell a bit flat from an Aussie marketing perspective, too.

 

When these actors started appearing I thought wtf - smacked of a bit of desperation, like they knew the episode wasn't good enough on it's own to make new people who had tuned in just to see a female Doctor stick with it. Based on Mrs GUN deciding after half an hour that she had had enough they were probably right. Be interesting to see how the viewing figures* compare next week.

 

* Is TV all about viewing figures? No. Is Prime Time weekend TV all about viewing figures? Yes.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

3 hours ago, msc said:

 

I'd only heard of Lee Mack (unfunny comedian), Alan Cumming (Goldeneye, Spy Kids, acclaimed stage career) and Art Malik (True Lies, The Living Daylight) who is a big name actor and quite a coup, imo.

 

Also, planting a detonating bomb on someone is pacifism? We really have different definitions of pacifism here.

 

 

 

You weren't paying attention in class.

 

The bombs were coded to attack the humans' DNA. Since the alien had different DNA, they just tickled him. I think.  

 

Anyway, Doc made it fairly clear her plan was to teleport him off the planet back to wherever he he came from, not to blow him up. I presume the bombs were just to give him a taste of his own medicine and serve as a bit of a distraction if he tried to detonate them but admittedly  the dialogue/editing could have been a little clearer im that scene, which is a bit of a worrying sign for the new production team...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

13 hours ago, runebomme said:

who needs good writers when you have political correctness

Thankfully they didn't go and hit us over the head with that. On that front at least, Chibnall seems more restrained than Moffat or RTD. In fact he took a more obscure issue with no identity politics tarnish attached, dyspraxia, and drew attention to that (possibly deliberately as a diversion) instead of hammering home to us the idea that Jodie was an empowered woman who was once a man. I thought the dyspraxia stuff was handled quite nicely actually since it is potentially a heavy-handed way to engender sympathy for a new character but it was tastefully done. Says me, an uncoordinated tosser who can barely touch type a word without a typo.