Windsor 2,233 Posted January 30, 2009 "The Scots...?" What all of them, or just those few who were fortunate enough to be granted titles by the Monarch? Where the independent country of England allowed for Cromwell to become Head of State, the Scots chose to retain the monarchy under Charles II. Those who mattered in Scottish society in the 17th Century, so yes - mainly the nobility. The Episcopalians were also keen to see the Restoration of monarchy given their belief in divine right. The made up a substantial proportion of the northern population. Lastly, the Presbyterians were keen on the retaining the monarchy if their religious practices were secured. Their problem was with Charles I, not the monarchy. You must not forget that the early Presbyterian kirk had previously removed another monarch in favour of another in 1567. So although the decision was taken at elite level, there was no popular demand for an end to monarchy. Anyway, regardless of who chose the Head of State, it doesn't remove the fact that the two nations were - at that point - both independent of each other. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anubis the Jackal 77 Posted January 31, 2009 This being my point. The English Revolution was the point at which ordinary people at last started to matter, yes even if the leaders and beneficiaries were the gentry. See The Putney Debates where the rank and file of the New Model Army were allowed to discuss how the new society would develop. Those who mattered in Scottish society in the 17th Century, so yes - mainly the nobility. . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,233 Posted January 31, 2009 This being my point. The English Revolution was the point at which ordinary people at last started to matter, yes even if the leaders and beneficiaries were the gentry. See The Putney Debates where the rank and file of the New Model Army were allowed to discuss how the new society would develop. Those who mattered in Scottish society in the 17th Century, so yes - mainly the nobility. . The people already had some degree of power in Scotland before the English revolution. The Crown was weakend due to the 'revolutions' of 1560 and 1567 where the Kirk institutions gained influence and power. The 'rank and file' of the Kirk congregations did discuss how church society would develop due to the bottom up elective structure. The Kirk practically created a second Scots Parliament in the General Assemblies. Incidently the General Assembly stopped meeting after 1653 for some reason... (Not that Charles II was any better for then when he took over from Cromwell). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monoclinic 39 Posted January 31, 2009 This being my point. The English Revolution was the point at which ordinary people at last started to matter, yes even if the leaders and beneficiaries were the gentry. See The Putney Debates where the rank and file of the New Model Army were allowed to discuss how the new society would develop. Those who mattered in Scottish society in the 17th Century, so yes - mainly the nobility. . Personally I prefer the Levellers ;-) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geronimo 3 Posted January 31, 2009 This being my point. The English Revolution was the point at which ordinary people at last started to matter, yes even if the leaders and beneficiaries were the gentry. See The Putney Debates where the rank and file of the New Model Army were allowed to discuss how the new society would develop. Those who mattered in Scottish society in the 17th Century, so yes - mainly the nobility. . So why did they blow it by allowing the restoration? Cromwell was a great man but needed to do more to maintain the republic. He wasn't quite ruthless enough. Perhaps he should have borrowed Edinburgh's guillotine and sorted out a few more of the aristos. Charles II didn't mess about hunting down those who had condemned his father to death. In some ways the English revolution was a bit too early before the democratic model had been fully worked out. It's a pity the Chartists couldn't organise themselves as a revolutionary movement so we didn't have to be stuck with the monarchy we have now. All that bloodshed and we let them back in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,233 Posted January 31, 2009 Charles II didn't mess about hunting down those who had condemned his father to death. Including Cromwell himself. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted January 31, 2009 Quite frankly, I don't like the way this thread about death anniversaries has turned into a debate about contentious figures in British constitutional history and I will not stand for it.......... ....today is the Anniversary of the death of Guy Fawkes 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One shot Paddy 1,206 Posted January 31, 2009 Charles II didn't mess about hunting down those who had condemned his father to death. Including Cromwell himself. And one of my ancestors! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,233 Posted January 31, 2009 Charles II didn't mess about hunting down those who had condemned his father to death. Including Cromwell himself. And one of my ancestors! He employed one of mine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 1, 2009 'Old Stone Face', Buster Keaton died today in 1966... 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,233 Posted February 2, 2009 30 years since this knob died. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 2, 2009 30 years since this knob died. Cock 'n Roll man, Cock 'n Roll... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grobler 35 Posted February 2, 2009 30 years since this knob died. Cock 'n Roll man, Cock 'n Roll... F@ck....do I feel old.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halleluyahjohntudor 5 Posted February 2, 2009 Charles II didn't mess about hunting down those who had condemned his father to death. Including Cromwell himself. Old Wart Face had already snuffed it, so they just dug up his corpse and hanged it on Tyburn Tree to make sure that it was really dead. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 2, 2009 This isn't a death anniversary as such, but it's interesting that the 30th Anniversary of what in retrospect is one the most important geo-political events since the Second World War has garnered little attention in the media... I wonder why? The Iranian Revolution 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 3, 2009 Today was the day the music died.... 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,233 Posted February 3, 2009 Possibly the greatest day in British history. I intend raising a glass to Mr Cromwell tonight. Go one step further - buy one of his death masks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevonDeathTrip 2,358 Posted February 3, 2009 Joe Meek, legendary record producer, blew his brains out forty two years ago today. He killed his landlady before turning the gun on himself. From Wiki: He passed up the chance to work with David Bowie, the Beatles (the latter he once described as "just another bunch of noise, copying other people's music") and Rod Stewart. John Repsch, in The Legendary Joe Meek recounts that upon hearing Stewart sing, Meek rushed into the studio, put his fingers in his ears and screamed until Stewart had left. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,904 Posted February 4, 2009 Thought I'd get in before everyone else. 4th February 1983 saw the death of Karen Carpenter. Here she is, aged just 18, in her first television performance from 1968. Funny thing is the clothes she wears in this don't look as ridiculous as some of the stuff she wore in the 70s and 80s. Clip is only about 80 seconds long so those that don't like tem, you don't have to suffer too much. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom 2,533 Posted February 4, 2009 Alex Harvey also died today in 1982 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,904 Posted February 4, 2009 Also Liberace. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 4, 2009 Also Liberace. He was gay don't you know... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Bearer 6,102 Posted February 4, 2009 And nobodys mentioned Norman Wisdoms 94th birthday 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted February 4, 2009 And nobodys mentioned Norman Wisdoms 94th birthday er....... 1. He's not dead. Yet. 2. Handrejka has on the requisite Norman Wisdom thread... Carry on... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Bearer 6,102 Posted February 4, 2009 And nobodys mentioned Norman Wisdoms 94th birthday er....... 1. He's not dead. Yet. 2. Handrejka has on the requisite Norman Wisdom thread... Carry on... 1. I know, but isn't this the 94th anniversary of his birth? 2. I know, but I read this thread first. Carrying on 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
