Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[Deathray 2,940]

22 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

We will be more fucked if a sitting government is overthrown by a 'unity government' that would have even less credibility of legitimacy than Boris does by getting the top job without public consent.

 The overthrowing of any sitting government that was democratically elected into power in the first place will be nothing less than a coup.

 That cannot ever be allowed to happen EU or no EU.

  

 

Coup? What the fuck are you on? Not really, it's governed by the Fixed Term Parliaments Act - implemented by a democratically elected government. We elect members of parliament. If the parliamentary mathematics changes to such a degree that a sitting government is no longer able to form a government then the same process that has existed for generations and is now solidified in law would be used to form or not form a new government. Most of the rest of Europe have similar mechanisms in place to prevent repeated elections during periods of unstable and fragmented government. First past the post is not a democratic system anyway. 

 

Get used to it because when common sense prevails and proportional representation is implemented it will be a accepted part of life.

 

 

 

 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

25 minutes ago, Deathray said:

 

Coup? What the fuck are you on? Not really, it's governed by the Fixed Term Parliaments Act - implemented by a democratically elected government. We elect members of parliament. If the parliamentary mathematics changes to such a degree that a sitting government is no longer able to form a government then the same process that has existed for generations and is now solidified in law would be used to form or not form a new government. Most of the rest of Europe have similar mechanisms in place to prevent repeated elections during periods of unstable and fragmented government. First past the post is not a democratic system anyway. 

 

Get used to it because when common sense prevails and proportional representation is implemented it will be a accepted part of life.

 

 

 

 

I call that bollocks.

Don't you be going down the road of that stat wanker 'Mr Personality' aka Paddyfool by looking at it from a purely analytical 'we have systems in place' bollocks to explain how a government that was voted into power can be removed by politicians who do not like the direction it is taking.

Look at it another way, you will have Politicians who will seek to remove the Government even though their constituents voted to leave. That, in itself, would mean that the sitting MP could be part of the process to remove a government that has a mandate to leave the EU purely because they did not agree with the original result.

I really would love to see the part of the official leave manifesto which stated, without any ambiguity, that leaving was subject to a trade deal being agreed. If such a paragraph be found then I'm all ears Deathers.

If the government does lose a no confidence vote then we have an election, simples. No need for a unity government run by utter thunder cunts.

Anyway, i am on the beer, as you asked.

[Deathray 2,940]

1 minute ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

I call that bollocks.

Don't you be going down the road of that stat wanker 'Mr Personality' aka Paddyfool by looking at it from a purely analytical 'we have systems in place' bollocks to explain how a government that was voted into power can be removed by politicians who do not like the direction it is taking.

 Look at it another way, you will have Politicians who will seek to remove the Government even though their constituents voted to leave. That, in itself, would mean that the sitting MP could be part of the process to remove a government that has a mandate to leave the EU purely because they did not agree with the original result.

 I really would love to see the part of the official leave manifesto which stated, without any ambiguity, that leaving was subject to a trade deal being agreed. If such a paragraph be found then I'm all ears Deathers.

If the government does lose a no confidence vote then we have an election, simples. No need for a unity government run by utter thunder cunts.

Anyway, i am on the beer, as you asked.

 

Look our democracy is a sham in the first place - there shouldn't have been any majority governments for a long time - something I can show with hard analysis of vote shares at elections. The government has in the past formed unity governments in times of national crises, which is what a no deal Brexit would be. It's not about purely analytical. The Conservatives brought the FTPA into being, they really cannot complain when it's used against them when they no longer want it to be noticed by anybody. It wasn't the opposition unity government that brought the FTPA into being it was the Conservatives and they've had 4 years in government to repeal the legislation if they don't accept it as new policy. They clearly do accept it as new policy, so what's the problem?

 

 

[msc 18,439]

31 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

I call that bollocks.

Don't you be going down the road of that stat wanker 'Mr Personality' aka Paddyfool by looking at it from a purely analytical 'we have systems in place' bollocks to explain how a government that was voted into power can be removed by politicians who do not like the direction it is taking. 

Look at it another way, you will have Politicians who will seek to remove the Government even though their constituents voted to leave. That, in itself, would mean that the sitting MP could be part of the process to remove a government that has a mandate to leave the EU purely because they did not agree with the original result. 

I really would love to see the part of the official leave manifesto which stated, without any ambiguity, that leaving was subject to a trade deal being agreed. If such a paragraph be found then I'm all ears Deathers.

If the government does lose a no confidence vote then we have an election, simples. No need for a unity government run by utter thunder cunts.

Anyway, i am on the beer, as you asked.

 

 

Looking at Page 3 of my copy of the Vote Leave 2016 booklet:

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist... 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

3 hours ago, msc said:

 

 

Looking at Page 3 of my copy of the Vote Leave 2016 booklet:

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist... 

That does NOT state that said negotiation is a pre condition of us actually leaving.

There is nothing in that which tells anybody with a brain cell that we negotiate any deal before we leave.

They could just have well have added or replaced that with the negotiating of free trade deals with nations around the globe.

Sorry, not the evidence a remainer would need to make that hold up their underwear let alone a legal challenge.

[Deathray 2,940]

3 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

That does NOT state that said negotiation is a pre condition of us actually leaving.

There is nothing in that which tells anybody with a brain cell that we negotiate any deal before we leave.

They could just have well have added or replaced that with the negotiating of free trade deals with nations around the globe.

Sorry, not the evidence a remainer would need to make that hold up their underwear let alone a legal challenge.

 

Yup, the sky's black.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

4 hours ago, Deathray said:

 

Look our democracy is a sham in the first place - there shouldn't have been any majority governments for a long time - something I can show with hard analysis of vote shares at elections. The government has in the past formed unity governments in times of national crises, which is what a no deal Brexit would be. It's not about purely analytical. The Conservatives brought the FTPA into being, they really cannot complain when it's used against them when they no longer want it to be noticed by anybody. It wasn't the opposition unity government that brought the FTPA into being it was the Conservatives and they've had 4 years in government to repeal the legislation if they don't accept it as new policy. They clearly do accept it as new policy, so what's the problem?

 

 

I have never liked the first past the post system but it has been better than most other systems including PR which , basically, constitutes a big fuck up where you get nothing meaningful done, bit like the utter abortion that a unity government would bring.

[Deathray 2,940]

Just now, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

I have never liked the first past the post system but it has been better than most other systems including PR which , basically, constitutes a big fuck up where you get nothing meaningful done, bit like the utter abortion that a unity government would bring.

 

Absolute bollocks, PR actually provides more stable governments in many instances.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

1 minute ago, Deathray said:

 

Yup, the sky's black.

In effect, I have called that out and you cannot demonstrate that it states that we will only leave the EU once a successful negotiation and deal is done.

Come on Deathers, disprove that!

[Deathray 2,940]

Just now, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

In effect, I have called that out and you cannot demonstrate that it states that we will only leave the EU once a successful negotiation and deal is done.

Come on Deathers, disprove that!

 

"We negotiate a new EU Deal" is pretty conclusive that they intention of Vote Leave all along was to call a Brexit with a deal.

 

The climb down no into we meant no deal all along is as laughable as Swinson saying she's anti-Brexit and refusing to work with the only man who can stop a no deal Brexit.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

3 minutes ago, Deathray said:

 

Absolute bollocks, PR actually provides more stable governments in many instances.

Yes, all the big hitters have that system like Greece, Finland and, er, Russia.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

1 minute ago, Deathray said:

 

"We negotiate a new EU Deal" is pretty conclusive that they intention of Vote Leave all along was to call a Brexit with a deal.

 

The climb down no into we meant no deal all along is as laughable as Swinson saying she's anti-Brexit and refusing to work with the only man who can stop a no deal Brexit.

No it was not.

That is YOUR interpretation and the interpretation of all remainers and the sole fucking reason that we are in the shit we are in.

An intention to negotiate a deal is not the same as ' we intend to negotiate a deal prior to leaving the EU.

Now you KNOW that because you are smarter than the average bear.

The negotiating team was originally set up to deal with the transit of goods, the extraction of our nation from EU legislation and laws and get consensus on how we worked out the ' we give a bit and you give a bit scenarios to ensure that both sides had a smooth transition.

There would have been absolutely no neccessity to have embarked on the above if we were going to have worked out a trade deal from the outset.

Next....

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Carry on Deathers, we WILL breathe some life into this place if it kills us!

[Deathray 2,940]

1 minute ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

No it was not.

That is YOUR interpretation and the interpretation of all remainers and the sole fucking reason that we are in the shit we are in.

 An intention to negotiate a deal is not the same as ' we intend to negotiate a deal prior to leaving the EU.

 Now you KNOW that because you are smarter than the average bear.

 The negotiating team was originally set up to deal with the transit of goods, the extraction of our nation from EU legislation and laws and get consensus on how we worked out the ' we give a bit and you give a bit scenarios to ensure that both sides had a smooth transition.

There would have been absolutely no neccessity to have embarked on the above if we were going to have worked out a trade deal from the outset.

Next....

 

There's absolutely nothing in that leaflet that states intention. It clears states that "We negotiate a new EU-UK deal based on free trade." Vote Leave have categorically failed to implement that as most remainers pointed out at the time; as they were never going to be in government they couldn't deliver on that promise. That's what's left us staring down the barrel of no deal, which even Leavers who still support it will be against when it hits. 

 

The fact Leavers can't accept they told us there would be a deal is why were in this mess. 

 

Regards PR, you can show through categorical analysis of past election results that it would generally if UK votes had been made under the same system have delivered stable governments with decent majorities. Coalitions yes, but stable ones.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

1 minute ago, Deathray said:

 

There's absolutely nothing in that leaflet that states intention. It clears states that "We negotiate a new EU-UK deal based on free trade." Vote Leave have categorically failed to implement that as most remainers pointed out at the time; as they were never going to be in government they couldn't deliver on that promise. That's what's left us staring down the barrel of no deal, which even Leavers who still support it will be against when it hits. 

 

The fact Leavers can't accept they told us there would be a deal is why were in this mess. 

 

Regards PR, you can show through categorical analysis of past election results that it would generally if UK votes had been made under the same system have delivered stable governments with decent majorities. Coalitions yes, but stable ones.

I will deal with this later.

I am going out to get drunk.

[Sir Creep 7,070]

2 hours ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

I will deal with this later.

I am going out to get drunk.

 

First intelligent post of the lot.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

16 hours ago, Sir Creep said:

 

First intelligent post of the lot.

If we start to post intelligently the forum will die on its aRse.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

For the smarty arses out there..and deathers.

Can anybody enlighten me as to when the last unity government was formed ( in the last 100 years) when a sitting PM was removed and replaced by another? I am specifically thinking of a PM that was installed from a different party to the one that was in power etc etc.

Ta.

[msc 18,439]

10 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

For the smarty arses out there..and deathers.

Can anybody enlighten me as to when the last unity government was formed ( in the last 100 years) when a sitting PM was removed and replaced by another? I am specifically thinking of a PM that was installed from a different party to the one that was in power etc etc.

Ta.

 

1931-45, formed due to The Great Depression, wound up dealing with WW2.

 

Although that led to an election where Labour splitting into 3 parties, with the National Government Labour keeping the top jobs, the main party getting gubbed, and the ILP led by Glasgow firebrand Jimmy Maxton.

 

There after, MacDonald (Labour) remained PM, but was replaced under the National Government as PM by Baldwin (Tory) without an election. (Although there was one later in the year which saw a mass swing to the non-NG Labour party, ,which promptly joined the government anyway...)

[Deathray 2,940]

27 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

For the smarty arses out there..and deathers.

Can anybody enlighten me as to when the last unity government was formed ( in the last 100 years) when a sitting PM was removed and replaced by another? I am specifically thinking of a PM that was installed from a different party to the one that was in power etc etc.

 Ta.

 

1931

 

Whilst the same Prime Minister, MacDonald re-installed himself in a unity government composed almost entirely of opposition MPs and his remaining National Labour supporters,  so technically a new Prime Minister from an opposition party even if the same Prime Minister in name as he went from Labour Party to National Labour and headed up a unity government. So there's clear precedent. Election then held.

 

1935

 

National Government complexion changed and Baldwin became Prime Minister before calling an election anyway.

 

We'd probably head straight for an election after the unity movement, but as the unity government's sole purpose is to prevent No Deal, so what?

 

 

 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

The two i knew who would come through.

[Deathray 2,940]

40 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

The two i knew who would come through.

 

Is that LFN speak for "I should have google checked that before asking as it hasn't made the point I wanted it too!" 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

3 hours ago, Deathray said:

 

Is that LFN speak for "I should have google checked that before asking as it hasn't made the point I wanted it too!" 

It is LFN speak for I couldn't be arsed to do it myself.

 

[Deathray 2,940]

Well at least this mess is going to be settled one way or another....

 

Boris going with suspension of parliament.

 

Opposition will have opportunity to lay a VoNC before he does it by the looks of it. Crucially not enough time to pass anti-No Deal legislation.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[TQR 14,391]

Why could Queen Liz not have just broken the habit of a lifetime and told her head of government to piss orf? Honestly. She’s the only person in the world who could have slapped Johnson with a nice solid turd, but instead she decides to get her emerald-encrusted fan and let Johnson splatter her entire country with rancid arse curry.

 

Cow.