The EU Referendum Hokey Cokey

[YoungWillz 21,229]

With campaigns for both sides having started up, thought I'd open a thread for discussion of the UK's upcoming referendum to remain or leave the European Union.

 

In the words of The Buzzcocks Clash, should we stay or should we go?

 

Are you in a quandary to vote in favour of staying, even if that means siding with Tony Blair and David Cameron? Will Caroline Lucas' decision to vote for staying hurt any re-election chances she may have even if she is on the winning side? (See Labour in Scotland).

 

Would we be better off leaving? What happens if the constituent parts of the UK vote differently? What interventions can we expect from the international community?

 

So many questions distilled down to "Leave" or "Remain". Bound to be quite a few personalities involved and no doubt some social media abuse hurled about - like the Isle of Man flag, this thread has legs. Let's fire the starting pistol.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

Leave.

[time 8,677]

With campaigns for both sides having started up, thought I'd open a thread for discussion of the UK's upcoming referendum to remain or leave the European Union.

 

In the words of The Buzzcocks, Clash should we stay or should we go?

 

Are you in a quandary to vote in favour of staying, even if that means siding with Tony Blair and David Cameron? Will Caroline Lucas' decision to vote for staying hurt any re-election chances she may have even if she is on the winning side? (See Labour in Scotland).

 

Would we be better off leaving? What happens if the constituent parts of the UK vote differently? What interventions can we expect from the international community?

 

So many questions distilled down to "Leave" or "Remain". Bound to be quite a few personalities involved and no doubt some social media abuse hurled about - like the Isle of Man flag, this thread has legs. Let's fire the starting pistol.

FTFY

[YoungWillz 21,229]

Thanks, time, I should never have minded the Buzzcocks, he he. Fixed the initial post.

[Toast 16,234]

I went to a Buzzcocks gig last year.

[YoungWillz 21,229]

Both the Buzzcocks and the Clash were formed the year after the last UK referendum on the EEC, though I doubt it was as a specific reaction to the result.

 

Maybe this EU referendum will lead to a resurgence in quality UK music?

[msc 18,543]

Both the Buzzcocks and the Clash were formed the year after the last UK referendum on the EEC, though I doubt it was as a specific reaction to the result.

 

Maybe this EU referendum will lead to a resurgence in quality UK music?

 

I'd settle for a resurgence in quality Conservative party meltdowns.

[Bibliogryphon 9,648]

In answer to your Clash I would suggest Shakespeare's Sister.

[msc 18,543]

In answer to your Clash I would suggest Shakespeare's Sister.

 

You're History?

 

[YoungWillz 21,229]

 

In answer to your Clash I would suggest Shakespeare's Sister.

 

You're History?

 

 

 

Hmm, part of me says Thelma Houston, the other part says Moody Blues. Guess I'm just Stealers Wheel.

[Bibliogryphon 9,648]

Looks like we could have a NOW That's What I Call An EU referendum album out additional suggestions

 

I Remain - Alanis Morisette

Root of All Evil -The Beautiful South

 

I am currently in Porto attending a European meeting. The company I work for will be seriously compromised if we leave the EU but that is not my only reason for wanting this to work.

[YoungWillz 21,229]

Merkel says she is unlikely to revisit founding principles of the EU. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35118036

 

Not looking good for the pork plunger's feeble attempt to tell the rest of Europe what to do when they disagree with him, although he's having more success in dismantling the House of Lords' powers (who also disagree with him).

[YoungWillz 21,229]

Outline of proposal EU has for Britain's continued membership: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35467479

 

DC's soft soap won't wash Joe Public imo.

[charon 4,943]

 

My view is irrelevant as I'll be voting to leave soley to trigger another Indy ref

[Rotten Ali 600]

Interesting one this. Let's face it, we get one vote every 40 years to really say what "country" has our sovereignty. Right now everything legalise wise for (28 real countries) goes to this greater mythical Parliament and effective country called Europe.

 

Nice idea for some.

 

Last time the UK voted (1975) it was to stay in the EEC.

 

That's all changed down the years. The slow creep of centralised power. Creep of effective sovereignty loss. Deferred debate. New accords voted for on the nod.

 

David Cameron (slime ball number one) wanted to produce a rabbit from a hat. He has a hat, but wants us to believe he holds a cute furry animal. The rat attached to his sticky finger sinks it's teeth in deeper and deeper.

 

Shocking to me. Unbelievable in the round to think this is po faced to front it as a success.

 

We can't change Europe. It can't be be changed for the better by any "old country".

 

Any fool government of 300 people can take a country into this mad cow new overarching country called Europe. It can only be a majority of the 50 million British public to get us out.

 

At the moment those MPs think it's 50% for Europe, 10% against with the rest undecided.

 

In my view we have to get out. We are not in the Euro. We can actually achieve more without being held back.

 

Vote for Europe, and within 10 years we will have lost our currency, our invisible trades, our markets, our very Liberty at every turn and be poorer and more heavily taxed to provide larger subsidies for a few farmers winging millions from the common agricultural policy.

 

Europe... Nice idea. Go there for a great holiday. Not this sham government who breed rats to eat our grain.

 

Like the Dragons Den investors say... "I'm out".

 

I dearly hope we leave this summer so the other 27 countries can take a long look at what is really wrong with this strange edifice.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

Interesting one this. Let's face it, we get one vote every 40 years to really say what "country" has our sovereignty. Right now everything legalise wise for (28 real countries) goes to this greater mythical Parliament and effective country called Europe.

 

Nice idea for some.

 

Last time the UK voted (1975) it was to stay in the EEC.

 

That's all changed down the years. The slow creep of centralised power. Creep of effective sovereignty loss. Deferred debate. New accords voted for on the nod.

 

David Cameron (slime ball number one) wanted to product a rabbit from a hat. He has a hat, but wants us to believe he holds a cute furry animal. The rat attached to his sticky finger sinks it's teeth in deeper and deeper.

 

Shocking to me. Unbelievable in the round to think this is po faced to front as a success.

 

We can't change Europe. It can't be be changed for the better by any "old country".

 

Any fool government of 300 people can take a country into this mad cow new overarching country called Europe. It can only be a majority of the 50 million British public to get us out.

 

At the moment those MPs think it's 50% for Europe, 10% against with the rest undecided.

 

In my view we have to get out. We are not in the Euro. We can actually achieve more without being held back.

 

Vote for Europe, and within 10 years we will have loss our currency, our invisible trades, our markets, our very Liberty at every turn and be poorer and more heavily taxed to provide larger subsidies for a few farmers winging millions from the common agricultural policy.

 

Europe... Nice idea. Go there for a great holiday. Not this sham government who breed rats to eat our grain.

 

Like the Dragons Den investors say... "I'm out".

 

I dearly hope we leave this summer so the other 27 countries can take a long look at what is really wrong with this strange edifice.

That's just fucking brilliant RA, a sort of sublime genius or summat!

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

My view is irrelevant as I'll be voting to leave soley to trigger another Indy ref

That works for me to.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

Definitely time to leave the EU.

 

I fully expect the pro EU state institutions will ratchet up the fear mongering and spreading of disinformation, the BBC will be at the forefront of this effort. Glad I don't pay my TV licence.

[Bibliogryphon 9,648]

I am a firm believer in the European Union but agree that it needs improving. However I am torn because Cameron has massively cocked up the renegotiation as RA so beautifully described it. However people should be aware this referendum is not about the renegotiation but about membership of the EU and being at the heart of an institution which makes decisions on trade which we will need to follow whether we are in or not.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

I am a firm believer in the European Union but agree that it needs improving. However I am torn because Cameron has massively cocked up the renegotiation as RA so beautifully described it. However people should be aware this referendum is not about the renegotiation but about membership of the EU and being at the heart of an institution which makes decisions on trade which we will need to follow whether we are in or not.

Now that's the kind of statement that boils my piss.

As it is, we cannot go out and sign trade agreements with countries willy nilly without the EU giving us the nod. What the fucking hell is that all about?????

Europe NEEDS to trade with us and we NEED to trade with Europe.

The idea that us being out of the EU will have the Eurozone sticking import duties on our exported goods as and when is stupid.

The way that some people talk you would think we are Greece not one of the most powerful economic nations in the World.

We would have to reciprocate, it would make Europe very uncompetitive in the UK and we are a big fuck off fish, make no mistake.

The only people crying about leaving are the big industries but there are thousands of small businesses that would welcome us coming out.

Its that gravy train, big business leaders all cosying up to each other and kissing arses.

Fundamentally, our country, our decision making, fuck the EU.

This whole scenario makes me side with Charon and his pro Scottish independence bollocks. If they want to be free of the rest of the UK good luck to them.

We need to be free of Europe too.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Many years ago I was a big supporter of the EU. My reasons for that (integration, rather than war to solve political problems) are still valid, but what the Union has become has diminished my enthusiasm quite a bit. I think leaving the Union won't solve Britain's ills, nor those of the Union. I also think that leaving the Union won't make much of a difference for the UK and the EU: after all, the UK has for many years been the Special Child in the class.

 

What the Union should do, with or without the UK, is reinvent itself along much more democratic lines and with a strict delineation of what are Union and what are national matters. A European Parliament that has actual power and isn't afraid to use it would also be nice. We should think about how countries become members. A referendum for that would be nice. After all, should the UK defect, we might not want them back in.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Magere Hein
Leaving won't make a difference,rather than will

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

Many years ago I was a big supporter of the EU. My reasons for that (integration, rather than war to solve political problems) are still valid, but what the Union has become has diminished my enthusiasm quite a bit. I think leaving the Union won't solve Britain's ills, nor those of the Union. I also think that leaving the Union won't make much of a difference for the UK and the EU: after all, the UK has for many years been the Special Child in the class.

 

What the Union should do, with or without the UK, is reinvent itself along much more democratic lines and with a strict delineation of what are Union and what are national matters. A European Parliament that has actual power and isn't afraid to use it would also be nice. We should think about how countries become members. A referendum for that would be nice. After all, should the UK defect, we might not want them back in.

That would be fine if it were to happen but it wont, will it.

A European Parliament is the ultimate image of interference, incompetence and meddling.

You can use a whole plethora of phrases and words to describe the EU and precious few will be positive ones.

I understood the original concept but nobody actually requested that it become somesort of Superstate where individual National Governments would end up as nothing more than local authorities that had to toe the line.

Im actually heartened to see that the Dutch, like us, still retain our own style of car number plates. Now that would seem to be a trivial point but its not really, it sort of, demonstrates that there are at least two European countries who are still prepared to do things their way instead of meekly complying and becoming something like a Country version of a Stepford Wife.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Magere Hein
Copied correction of quoted text

[Toast 16,234]

Im actually heartened to see that the Dutch, like us, still retain our own style of car number plates. Now that would seem to be a trivial point but its not really, it sort of, demonstrates that there are at least two European countries who are still prepared to do things their way instead of meekly complying and becoming something like a Country version of a Stepford Wife.

 

 

I'm particularly sorry to see the French number plates go. Apart from the genuine interest in seeing where they were from, you could play bingo with them on long journeys.

[Bibliogryphon 9,648]

A lot of people who are anti-EU seem to think that by leaving we will regain the status we had in days of empire. We are a small country who have always punched above our weight but there are countries coming up who would dwarf us. If we applied our talents (which we have many of) to really become part of the EU the EU would emerge stronger and could take its place alongside the US, Russia and China when talking about World solutions.

 

I would also like to point out that I would probably lose my job if we left the EU or it would be seriously diminished.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,226]

A lot of people who are anti-EU seem to think that by leaving we will regain the status we had in days of empire. We are a small country who have always punched above our weight but there are countries coming up who would dwarf us. If we applied our talents (which we have many of) to really become part of the EU the EU would emerge stronger and could take its place alongside the US, Russia and China when talking about World solutions.

 

I would also like to point out that I would probably lose my job if we left the EU or it would be seriously diminished.

Totally disagree with the thrust of your argument for remaining but I respect your point of view.